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CTD's/freezes with SSE - probably related to memory issues/pagefile issues


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4 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

reinstall my pc because it must somehow be messed up. Not the most helpful/encouraging advice...

It is a possibility, of course, but I presume you have more games and, probably, you play some of them to relax from your broken Skyrim. Sure, none of them have any kind of problem and all them works perfectly without CTD... except Skyrim... Then, the problem can not be in Operating System, or drivers, or hardware... The problem must be in Skyrim...

 

If you have others modded games, like Fallout or Skyrim Legendary, or a game with ReShade or SweetFX, make some test, launch it and play a bit. If you have problems with others games or programs, maybe, and only maybe, the problem can be in the Operating System or, maybe, one of the silent automatic Updates of Win10 has broken something.

 

But without more report of broken games i can not recommend drop your OS.

 

 

4 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

but I still had a CTD in the usual location.

Exactly, where is that location???

Some locations have reported problems and, maybe, you are getting a know CTD in that location.

 

 

Other option can be trash inside your DATA folder.

You are using MO and your DATA folder only must have the main ESM's of the game.

If you have more things inside your DATA folder move it to another folder.

 

 

Finally, the problem can be in INI files of the game.

The INI files are the only thing that is preserved from one installation to another.

You can reinstall the game but the INI files are preserved. 

You can create a new profile in MO but the INI files are copied from the default profile.

Maybe, you have a bad parameter inside your INI files that is carried and are causing the problems.

Try removing or renaming your INI files.

 

 

All that are strange possibilities but we must missing something.

Your problem must be somewhere. We just have to find it.

Edited by alex77r4
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3 hours ago, judge007 said:

I would advise going through .dll files of skyrim (install dir & mods dir), right-click and "Properties"

and check to see if there is an entry "Blocked"

 

What exactly do you mean with 'blocked'? I checked all the Skyrim and mod DLLs, none of them are 'read-only' and all of them have 4 permissions: modify, read & execute, read, write.

 

 

3 hours ago, judge007 said:

For antivirus, it won't always give an alert before taking action.

Best to add Steam folder, Skyrim install folder, MO2 folder and mods folder to exclusions list.

 

I'll add those folders to the Antivirus exceptions. Mods are in MO2 so that should be covered if I give MO2 exceptions.

 

 

3 hours ago, judge007 said:

Have you Validated files in Steam at all?

 

Yes, I've inspected their integrity multiple times. There are no issues.

 

 

1 hour ago, alex77r4 said:

If you have others modded games, like Fallout or Skyrim Legendary, or a game with ReShade or SweetFX, make some test, launch it and play a bit. If you have problems with others games or programs, maybe, and only maybe, the problem can be in the Operating System or, maybe, one of the silent automatic Updates of Win10 has broken something.

 

Sadly I have no other modded games, nor any that use ReShade or SweetFX (that I know of). So I can't test those. I've got some other games and played them before, without any issues. The only one where I had severe CTD issues was Battlefield 1, which I tried the solo campaign of recently. It crashed a lot, but from what I read, that wasn't actually uncommon, so I blamed it on the game. That's the only thing I know of that gives me issues, all the rest on my pc works fine, including resource/GPU intensive programs like slicers for 3D printers etc.

 

 

2 hours ago, alex77r4 said:

Exactly, where is that location???

Some locations have reported problems and, maybe, you are getting a know CTD in that location.

 

At the advice of some others at some point I test everything by starting Skyrim and then using 'coc riverwood'. That drops me on the road near Riverwood. I then run towards the three stones nearby, those that you discover first if you play the Vanilla intro. With the ENB on, I used to crash on that road, hardly ever making it to the stones (sometimes just to the stones and then crashing there). Without ENB I managed to get a little further, usually across the river near the stones, running along the edge of the lake towards Ilianalta's Deep. Normally when I crash, I crash before I reach it. From there I cross the mountains and head along the road to Markarth. If I make it a good part along that road, I consider it 'not crashed', because I can't run 10-15 minutes each time to test. I do use the 'tgm' command lately (god mode) to make sure I don't run out of stamina, but I did plenty of testing (and crashing) before using that command.

 

I've also tested by using coc winterholdjail and going outside, fighting horkers/ice golems. With ENB I'd crash quickly there too, without it I didn't use this location much anymore as a test.

 

 

2 hours ago, alex77r4 said:

Other option can be trash inside your DATA folder.

You are using MO and your DATA folder only must have the main ESM's of the game.

If you have more things inside your DATA folder move it to another folder.

 

Here's what is currently in my DATA folder (of the official Skyrim SE folder, of course in the MO2 mods folders you have other Data folders): https://pasteboard.co/Ke3vf7f.png. That all looks legit, I think?

 

 

2 hours ago, alex77r4 said:

That INI files are the only thing that is preserved from one installation to another.

You can reinstall the game but the INI files are preserved. 

You can create a new profile in MO but the INI files are copied from the default profile.

Maybe, you have a bad parameter inside your INI files that is carried and are causing the problems.

Try removing or renaming your INI files.

 

 We are talking about Skyrim's own ini-files, or all ini files (including those of mods)? If I remove them, will Skyrim recreate them? Or do I remove them and then run an integrity check, does that download the 'clean/fresh' ini files again?

 

 

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Small update:

 

- I added the MO2 and Skyrim folders as exceptions to my AV, and added the .exe's explicitly as well

- I ran two games with my test profile, where I only have the core mods installed (the ones that still gave me fails in my last tests). I tested it twice, and I ran towards Markarth along the path I explained above. I didn't have any crashes. Small sample size, so it might have been luck.

- So I switched to my other profile, where I had those 30-ish mods installed; that one usually crashes a bit earlier so I thought it would be a good test. But once I reactivated all the mods, all of a sudden I couldn't get Loot to run the way it used to, it couldn't find the game/profile, strangely enough: 

 

image.png.35b5491f46799b1cdce571066918e5d9.png

 

Afaik I didn't change anything that could have affected this, so I'm a little surprised. I don't know if it's relevant or not, but I thought I'd share.

 

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Second update:

 

- I had to run the Steam launcher for Skyrim to get Loot to recognize it. I don't know why, but somehow that had 'reset' itself (it also asked again to recognize my monitor/pc). After that, I could run Loot as normal.

- Had a crash when running the modded profile, twice, in the usual spot (close to Ilianalta's Deep, as before.

- I noticed my CPU was running a little hot (flirting with 80°C). So I ran another test with the pc fans at max, which kept it a bit cooler, but it still crashed in the same spot. While I had paid attention to my temps/GPU usage before during the game, I hadn't notice it run over 80°C, might have been a combo of the programs running no my pc. But it seems thermal throttling wasn't the issue, as the crash still occured.

- Since I was beginning to think about throttling and such, I decided to also run my modded profile with Skyrims default settings set to 'low' graphics quality. But again, no difference, crash in the same spot as all the other crashes with this profile.

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2 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

I've got some other games and played them before, without any issues. The only one where I had severe CTD issues was Battlefield 1,

That is normal, Battlefield 1 has a lot of problems and CTD. I think your OS is working good.

 

 

2 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

At the advice of some others at some point I test everything by starting Skyrim and then using 'coc riverwood'.

You are typing "coc riverwood" from the Main Menu?

I don't know who can say that is a correct method to make test.

Maybe, that is the motive of yours CTD.

 

When you type "coc riverwood" from the Main Menu the game make a special initialization that is totally different of the normal initialization that is made when you click New Game. You can see the gigantic differences looking the Papyrus.log from one start to the other.

Never, absolutely never, use console commands to start a game or make test.

 

Years ago, we have problems to load the save game and the recommended method was type "coc xxx" in the main menu and, when the game show the location, load the saved game. That (load the saved game) solve the problems caused by using coc from the Main Menu. 

But if you play or make test after write "coc xxx" in the Main Menu, the problems caused by the bad initialization of the game break any result that you can get.

 

 

To make fast test in Skyrim you must use a mod like Alternate Start or Realm of Lorkhan or any other mod that skip the long and bored normal start. I use Alternate Start. That mods allow you create go directly to the creation of the player and allow you make different start, i normally use BrezeHome to test WhiteRun, the horses, get the carriage to Riften or Markann....

 

Additionally, to make test in exterior cells, of course after a good start using Alternate Start, i open the console and type "tgm" (same as you) and "player.setav speedmult 500" to allow run 5 times more fast.

Not use "tfc" (Togle Free Cam) or "tcl" (Togle Collision Layers) because that not fire the normal reactions of the NPC's.

 

2 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

Here's what is currently in my DATA folder

That look very good.

 

2 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

We are talking about Skyrim's own ini-files,

I'm talking about the normal INI files of the game: Skyrim.ini and SkyrimPref.ini

If you delete it the game generate new INI files with default parámeters.

To configure the INI files I use BethIni because a lot of parameters inside the INI files are inter related. For example, to change UgridsToLoad you must change ExteriorCellBuffers, InteriorCellBuffers, RenderGrassDistance and others that i not remmember.

BethIni make all the necesay changes automatically.

 

The ini files of the mods are used to configure the mods and, normally, works good with default configuration. In the same way, the default INI files of the game (Skyrim.ini and SkyrimPref.ini) normally are good whit default configuration.

 

2 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

I remove them and then run an integrity check, does that download the 'clean/fresh' ini files again?

 

NO, that is the MAIN problem of the INI files of Skyrim.

The game not have default INI files in the installation and the INI files are not verified when you make a Integrity Check. The game generate new INI files with default values when you start a game without INI files.

 

The game store the INI files in Documents\My Games\Skyrim

If you remove or un-install the game the INI files are preserved.

When you install the game that INI files are not changed.

If you have a bad parameter inside the INI files that bad parameter is carried to the new installation.

 

Also, when you install MO the INI files inside Documents are copied to the default profile.

If you have a bad parameter inside the INI files that bad parameter is carried to the default MO profile.

 

In the same way, when you create a new profile in MO the existing INI files inside the default MO profile are copied to the new profile and ...

If you have a bad parameter inside the INI files in the default MO profile is carried to the new profile.

 

 

For that we always recommend delete the INI files in case of problems. Because some problems are caused by bad parameters inside the INI files and, sometimes, that bad parameters are carried one time after another.

 

The INI files are preserved because have the configuration of the game, normally related to hardware, screen resolution and a lot of others parameters about LOD, grass, water... 

All that parameters are preserved because, when reinstall the game, you have the same hardware.

 

But some users make manual modifications to the INI files, mainly because we have hundreds and hundreds of web pages recommending changes to the INI files. The 90% of that web pages are garbage and the changes are not necessary.

 

If any manual change is bad made in the INI files the game can have problems and the problems can be carried to new installations and carried to new profiles in MO.

Edited by alex77r4
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1 hour ago, Q2R51 said:

Afaik I didn't change anything that could have affected this, so I'm a little surprised. I don't know if it's relevant or not, but I thought I'd share.

That is a bit strange. I presume you launch Loot from inside MO and MO not show any error.

Maybe you launch Loot from outside MO?

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30 minutes ago, Q2R51 said:

- I had to run the Steam launcher for Skyrim to get Loot to recognize it. I don't know why, but somehow that had 'reset' itself (it also asked again to recognize my monitor/pc). After that, I could run Loot as normal.

If you have delete the INI files, as i recommend, that is normal because the hardware configuration is inside that INI files.

 

Yours temperatures are a bit hot. Skyrim is an old game and must not put stress in your machine until you start a modded game with a lot of High Poly mesh and big textures in High Resolution.

 

But left this point for now. Center your effort in solve the CTD.

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1 hour ago, alex77r4 said:

When you type "coc riverwood" from the Main Menu the game make a special initialization that is totally different of the normal initialization that is made when you click New Game. You can see the gigantic differences looking the Papyrus.log from one start to the other.

Never, absolutely never, use console commands to start a game or make test.

 

Years ago, we have problems to load the save game and the recommended method was type "coc xxx" in the main menu and, when the game show the location, load the saved game. That (load the saved game) solve the problems caused by using coc from the Main Menu. 

But if you play or make test after write "coc xxx" in the Main Menu, the problems caused by the bad initialization of the game break any result that you can get.

 

 

To make fast test in Skyrim you must use a mod like Alternate Start or Realm of Lorkhan or any other mod that skip the long and bored normal start. I use Alternate Start. That mods allow you create go directly to the creation of the player and allow you make different start, i normally use BrezeHome to test WhiteRun, the horses, get the carriage to Riften or Markann....

 

Additionally, to make test in exterior cells, of course after a good start using Alternate Start, i open the console and type "tgm" (same as you) and "player.setav speedmult 500" to allow run 5 times more fast.

Not use "tfc" (Togle Free Cam) or "tcl" (Togle Collision Layers) because that not fire the normal reactions of the NPC's.

 

 

Ah, that is good to know ?. Could I do the following as an alternative to installing either of those two mods? Before I installed any mods, I also ran a vanilla game, walking through the intro to right outside of the cave at Helgen. Can I use that save as a starting point for my tests (I got a clean back-up of it, so I can overwrite it each time with the clean, vanilla version)? If so, it might be a good idea to use it, because that's how my CTD's initially became a problem: I would run from the cave at Helgen towards the stones and Riverwood, and along the way I'd get my CTDs, I only once made it to Riverwood without crashing (and then it crashed in Riverwood itself, outside still).

 

I'll run a good few tests like that tomorrow, on the unmodded profile that only has the core mods installed.

 

1 hour ago, alex77r4 said:

That is a bit strange. I presume you launch Loot from inside MO and MO not show any error.

Maybe you launch Loot from outside MO?

 

No, strangely enough it was Loot from inside MO2, it really surprised me.

 

 

1 hour ago, alex77r4 said:

If you have delete the INI files, as i recommend, that is normal because the hardware configuration is inside that INI files.

Strange thing is that afaik, I hadn't deleted the ini files yet... it makes me think it might be a good idea to make yet another test profile, and reinstall the core mods there, just to be sure my current test profile isn't 'polluted'.

 

1 hour ago, alex77r4 said:

The game store the INI files in Documents\My Games\Skyrim

 

Also, when you install MO the INI files inside Documents are copied to the default profile.

If you have a bad parameter inside the INI files that bad parameter is carried to the default MO profile.

 

In the same way, when you create a new profile in MO the existing INI files inside the default MO profile are copied to the new profile and ...

If you have a bad parameter inside the INI files in the default MO profile is carried to the new profile.

 

So I should delete the ini files "SkyrimPrefs" and "skyrim.ini" from

- the default SSE folder

- each individual profile folder in MO2

==> will the ini-files in the profile folders also automatically be remade?

 

I should not remove the "initweaks.ini", "settings.ini" and "skyrimcustom.ini" from the individual MO2 profile folders?

 

I'll test all this out tomorrow. So my next steps should be:

- removing the ini-files from the default folders and profile folders

- start a game through the Steam launcher (to recreate the ini-files) ==> should I launch an actual game, or is loading the main menu enough for this?

- make a new profile in MO2 (which will then use the recreated ini-files), add the core mods to it, and launch it

- use my Vanilla save outside of Helgen as starting point, to run to Riverwood and around the lake at Falkreath, as I have been doing (unless you warn me this is a bad idea and I really should use Alternate Start).

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12 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

Can I use that save as a starting point for my tests

 

NOT, i'm sorry, but NOT...

 

Never, absolutely never, use a saved game as a secure point to start a new game or make test.

The saved gamed in Skyrim store a gigantic amount of things. A saved gamed in Helgen with only base game +DLC's can have near 3 MB of info. That is, really, a gigantic amount of things. Think that a save game from Assassins Creed or Tom Raider can have a size of some Kb... Skyrim is storing Mega Bytes. 

 

That saved gamed has already make the game initialization and that has been stored inside the save game  along with a lot of data related to Quest and Script that can not be changed NEVER.

For example, USLEEP make a lot of changes in the Quest and Script of the base game and DLC's and need make it in the game initialization to replace the bad data inside the main Quest and Script of the base game.

 

If you load your saved game, created in Helgen using a pure vanilla game, in your modded profile, that have USLEEP, you go to have problems with the game because the game has already been initialized.

The saved game has, inside it, the original versions of the Quest and Script that come from Skyrim.esm and the game can NOT replace it with the corrected versions that come from USLEEP.

That can be made only in the game initialization.

 

That is the main motive because some mods, like USLEEP, Requiem, and others REQUIRE start a New Game.

Because need replace some Quest and Script from the Base Game and that can be made ONLY in the game initialization.

 

 

12 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

So I should delete the ini files "SkyrimPrefs" and "skyrim.ini" from

- the default SSE folder

- each individual profile folder in MO2

==> will the ini-files in the profile folders also automatically be remade?

 

I should not remove the "initweaks.ini", "settings.ini" and "skyrimcustom.ini" from the individual MO2 profile folders?

 

If the problem is caused by a bad parameter inside the INI files, then YES... delete every Skyrim.ini and SkyrimPref.ini that you can find in your machine.

But only when "the problem is caused by a bad parameter inside the INI files"

 

At this point we not know where is the problem, can be inside the INI files, but until we can demonstrate it delete ALL your INI files is a bit drastic operation.

 

 

The INI files of the mods like "initweaks.ini", "settings.ini" and "skyrimcustom.ini", normally, not cause problems until you change it manually.

If you have made manual changes to that INI files, maybe, can be necessary delete it.

But that can force you to download and re-install that mods because some of them come with INI files in the installer and can not generate a default INI file.

 

The operation can be different depending of the exact game and the exact mod. More clear:

Skyrim not have INI files in the installer. If you delete the INI files the game generate default INI files.

But skyrimcustom.ini normally come from the mods and probably, if you delete it, the mod can not generate it. That force you to download again the mod to get the INI file that you have deleted.

 

Is not convenient make manual operation, like delete files, until you know really what are you making and why. Except when you get specific instructions from an expert that recommend, specifically, make a manual operation.

Edited by alex77r4
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Right, thanks for that clarification! Learning a lot here about how the game works on a deeper level.

 

So my best course of action seems to be installing Alternative Start and using that to test, after deleting only the 2 ini-files of the base game so they regenerate and then make a new MO2 profile with the core mods and launch it for testing with Alternative Start.

 

I'll do that and run around a good while in a random location, depending on where alternate start lands me to see if I get CTDs (using god mode and speed up). Are there any commands I can safely use once the game has loaded (without increasing the chances for errors, like coc riverwood might do), to teleport myself near riverwood, so I can at least also try running the same course as I did before, as a secondary test? This will help us to see if it's location bound or game/mod bound.

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9 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

Are there any commands I can safely use once the game has loaded (without increasing the chances for errors, like coc riverwood might do), to teleport myself near riverwood, so I can at least also try running the same course as I did before, as a secondary test? This will help us to see if it's location bound or game/mod bound.

 

With Alternate Start you can be owner of any inn of the game, select Riverwood.

After a good start you can open the console and type any command like "coc xxx" without any problem.

The problem only happen when you type "coc xxx" from the Main Menu.

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All right, I can finally report. And I think, for now, that... it works?

 

What I did:

 

- removed the two default ini-files

- reloaded skyrim and started a new save (vanilla, through Steam), played part of the intro, closed Skyrim

- ini-files were not recreated. I then verified the integrity of the Skyrim installation and both files were retrieved through that

- I created a new, PORTABLE, instance in MO2. That did scare me a little: I had created a custom path for it inside MO2, but it ignored that partially and spread plugin and mod folders all over the main MO2 installation folder. Makes it messy and I was worried it would lead to issues

- I reinstalled SKSE. Instead of following the read-me for the DATA part, I followed an online tutorial for it (looked like the 'official' one?). That one didn't have me just move the DATA folder, but had me manually create some folders AND an ini-file (that ini-file I never created before, it wasn't part of the read-me installation instructions).

- I installed the unofficial patch, SSE Engine fixes, Address Library, .NET Script Framework and Alternative Start.

 

At that point, Loot once again didn't recognize the game (even though it was already installed/linked in MO2). So I ran the Steam launcher, got the intro screen with 'options' etc., which asked me for my screen settings again. I selected High. After that, Loot did recognize the game in MO2.

 

Then I ran my games, through Alternate Start, spawning at the inn in Riverwood. From there I made my usual run 3 different times, past the mountains in Falkreath onto the path to Markarth. No CTD. Low sample size, I know, but still, normally I only get one 'fluke' without a CTD, not 3 times in a row. For good measure I upped my graphics to Ultra and not only used god mode but also the speed modifier you gave me (good gods, playing with that modifier on is an adventure in itself... Parkour Skyrim). I ran from Riverwood all the way to Markarth, not a glitch. FPS at a steady 61 frames.

 

So... I don't know. I don't feel there's that much different from before, except perhaps the SKSE install of the Data folder and the portable instance in MO2 (and of course me not coc-ing anymore from the main menu, like I did in nearly all my tests). Could that be enough to not have this recurring CTD? I guess, although I'm still wondering what exactly happened for that CTD to always happen more or less in the same spot.

 

I guess the next step is to install mods, and try it out some more with Alternate Start and speed running, just to see if loading all those mods in from the start doesn't create issues.

 

 

 

I'm incredibly grateful for the patience you guys have shown and the help you have provided. You're not rid of me yet, as I'll be begging for help again at the first sign of a crash ?.

 

If I can appeal to your experience and aid once more already, I will do that straight away with a request for advice on my mod list. I want to avoid installing mods that are known to cause issues, and while I thought my list was 'safe enough', I've already learnt some of them, that initially were on it, are in fact not ideal if you want a stable game.

 

My main reasons for playing/the things I love in the game are:

- immersion

- nice player homes

- enjoying beautiful nature graphics, that are not necessarily real life, but rather slightly fantasy like (meaning I don't need an ENB that turns Skyrim into the real Austrian mountains, that hint of gamey/fantasy nature may remain)

 

To do that I had compiled this list (some 'bad' mods already removed): https://pastebin.com/0n495fca 

 

Any advice on must-have mods or mods to avoid that are on my list are very welcome. I'm unsure of whether or not I should go for ENB's... they add so much beauty to the environment, but you mentioned that Boris and Win10 don't seem to agree yet. Many players on the other hand seem to use them without issue. If you have suggestions for mods that can make the world nearly as good looking as ENB's, but without needing the actual ENB software, please do share them with me.

 

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2 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

So... I don't know. I don't feel there's that much different from before, except perhaps the SKSE install of the Data folder and the portable instance in MO2 (and of course me not coc-ing anymore from the main menu, like I did in nearly all my tests). Could that be enough to not have this recurring CTD? I guess, although I'm still wondering what exactly happened for that CTD to always happen more or less in the same spot.

 

 

A bug in software doesn't take too much to happen. I was experimenting with the Experience mod, and getting instant crashes. After some investigation I found out the reason was the 3rd DLL loader I had in my main SSE folder. First two used by SSE Engine Tweaks and .Net SF, and this one was used by an old version of Uncapper at some point. 

 

Just a single DLL in the game folder, and it was crashing my game after installing a particular mod that didn't have any connection to it. I removed it, and it all works fine since then.

 

So yeah, it's not always obvious.

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3 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

All right, I can finally report. And I think, for now, that... it works?

 

What I did:

 

- removed the two default ini-files

- reloaded skyrim and started a new save (vanilla, through Steam), played part of the intro, closed Skyrim

- ini-files were not recreated. I then verified the integrity of the Skyrim installation and both files were retrieved through that

- I created a new, PORTABLE, instance in MO2. That did scare me a little: I had created a custom path for it inside MO2, but it ignored that partially and spread plugin and mod folders all over the main MO2 installation folder. Makes it messy and I was worried it would lead to issues

- I reinstalled SKSE. Instead of following the read-me for the DATA part, I followed an online tutorial for it (looked like the 'official' one?). That one didn't have me just move the DATA folder, but had me manually create some folders AND an ini-file (that ini-file I never created before, it wasn't part of the read-me installation instructions).

- I installed the unofficial patch, SSE Engine fixes, Address Library, .NET Script Framework and Alternative Start.

 

At that point, Loot once again didn't recognize the game (even though it was already installed/linked in MO2). So I ran the Steam launcher, got the intro screen with 'options' etc., which asked me for my screen settings again. I selected High. After that, Loot did recognize the game in MO2.

 

Then I ran my games, through Alternate Start, spawning at the inn in Riverwood. From there I made my usual run 3 different times, past the mountains in Falkreath onto the path to Markarth. No CTD. Low sample size, I know, but still, normally I only get one 'fluke' without a CTD, not 3 times in a row. For good measure I upped my graphics to Ultra and not only used god mode but also the speed modifier you gave me (good gods, playing with that modifier on is an adventure in itself... Parkour Skyrim). I ran from Riverwood all the way to Markarth, not a glitch. FPS at a steady 61 frames.

 

So... I don't know. I don't feel there's that much different from before, except perhaps the SKSE install of the Data folder and the portable instance in MO2 (and of course me not coc-ing anymore from the main menu, like I did in nearly all my tests). Could that be enough to not have this recurring CTD? I guess, although I'm still wondering what exactly happened for that CTD to always happen more or less in the same spot.

 

I guess the next step is to install mods, and try it out some more with Alternate Start and speed running, just to see if loading all those mods in from the start doesn't create issues.

 

 

 

I'm incredibly grateful for the patience you guys have shown and the help you have provided. You're not rid of me yet, as I'll be begging for help again at the first sign of a crash ?.

 

If I can appeal to your experience and aid once more already, I will do that straight away with a request for advice on my mod list. I want to avoid installing mods that are known to cause issues, and while I thought my list was 'safe enough', I've already learnt some of them, that initially were on it, are in fact not ideal if you want a stable game.

 

My main reasons for playing/the things I love in the game are:

- immersion

- nice player homes

- enjoying beautiful nature graphics, that are not necessarily real life, but rather slightly fantasy like (meaning I don't need an ENB that turns Skyrim into the real Austrian mountains, that hint of gamey/fantasy nature may remain)

 

To do that I had compiled this list (some 'bad' mods already removed): https://pastebin.com/0n495fca 

 

Any advice on must-have mods or mods to avoid that are on my list are very welcome. I'm unsure of whether or not I should go for ENB's... they add so much beauty to the environment, but you mentioned that Boris and Win10 don't seem to agree yet. Many players on the other hand seem to use them without issue. If you have suggestions for mods that can make the world nearly as good looking as ENB's, but without needing the actual ENB software, please do share them with me.

 

 

Now that you're up and operational again, it's time to learn how to resolve conflicts.

 

Here's a good starting point, lol.

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/173368-a-guide-to-making-a-proper-bashed-patch/

 

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4 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

Then I ran my games, through Alternate Start, spawning at the inn in Riverwood. From there I made my usual run 3 different times, past the mountains in Falkreath onto the path to Markarth. No CTD.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

 

Well... The words "No CTD" seems magical.... After 6 days, messages in forums, discords... 

And another 3 days investigating what are you making and why you have CTD.

 

When i say "I can not understand why you have CTD when add that core mods" the answer seems to be: 

"I'm making bad things..." not in the installation or configuration... in usage...

 

4 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

(and of course me not coc-ing anymore from the main menu, like I did in nearly all my tests). Could that be enough to not have this recurring CTD?

 

I say: "Maybe, that is the motive of yours CTD."

Test it, please. Open your working game, type "coc xxx" from the main menu and make your usual test.

If you get CTD the answer is clear. I'm confident and I think all the problems was caused by use "coc xx" from the Main Menu. A simply bad use of the console commands.

 

4 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

an ini-file (that ini-file I never created before, it wasn't part of the read-me installation instructions).

If you create a file called skse.ini that can help with some problems in the game but i really doubt that can really solve yours CTD... but... Please... test it... Rename the file, launch your stable game and make your usual test.

 

4 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

I guess, although I'm still wondering what exactly happened for that CTD to always happen more or less in the same spot.

I said the game make a different initialization and that can cause a bad initialization of the core mods or a bad memory management or a fail when loading new cells... And, probably, that happen, more or less, in the same moment. But I'm not sure... I know very well that, really, the game make something in a different way when you type "coc xxx" in the Main Menu but i not know exactly what.

 

4 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

I'm incredibly grateful for the patience you guys have shown and the help you have provided. You're not rid of me yet, as I'll be begging for help again at the first sign of a crash ?.

Do not worry. This website is full of expert users and developers and surely someone can help you if I am not available. I answered you because 6 days fighting Skyrim is more than enough for anyone.

I said: "Your problem must be somewhere. We just have to find it."

And the only way to solve the problems is have patience and make investigations until locate it.

 

4 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

To do that I had compiled this list (some 'bad' mods already removed): https://pastebin.com/0n495fca 

I only see one or two mods that can cause problems in Legendary but you are using Special and, maybe, that mods works perfectly in Special. Someone with more experience in that area must see your list.

 

We left some points in this war and I think it may be good to see it.

1 - Yours memory problems because Skyrim not need 16 Gb of RAM.

2 - Yours temperatures because Skyrim must not put that stress in your machine

3 - ENB but i'm not expert in it. Another user must help you with it.

Edited by alex77r4
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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, judge007 said:

 

Now that you're up and operational again, it's time to learn how to resolve conflicts.

 

Here's a good starting point, lol.

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/173368-a-guide-to-making-a-proper-bashed-patch/

 

 

I used to make bashed patches when I was still playing modded Oldrim. I guess since you suggested it, it is still recommended to make them (I had hoped to be able to avoid them this time around ?).

 

 

22 hours ago, alex77r4 said:

When i say "I can not understand why you have CTD when add that core mods" the answer seems to be: 

"I'm making bad things..." not in the installation or configuration... in usage...

 

Yeah, but the annoying part is this all started because I had CTD's after coming out of Helgen, in a modded game, where I'd crash in the same zone as when I crashed during my tests with coc (so near the stones in Riverwood). I started using coc to be able to speed up the testing process, but I had the same kind of CTD (or at least they looked like the same kind) without using coc.

 

I just tested what you suggested as well:

- coc-ing with my now functioning game, from the main menu: did 3 runs (2 at regular speed, 1 at increased speed), no crashes;

- changing the SKSE.ini name, and using coc from the main menu: did 2 runs (1 regular, 1 high speed), no crashes.

 

So it seems that the coc was not the (main) cause of my issues. Perhaps only the fact I did a portable install from MO2, so that all files are one one drive, rather than spread over C:/ and D:/? Don't know, it's weird. But it's good that I can't even attempt to crash the game atm.

 

 

22 hours ago, alex77r4 said:

I only see one or two mods that can cause problems in Legendary but you are using Special and, maybe, that mods works perfectly in Special. Someone with more experience in that area must see your list.

 

Which mods are potential issues (in Lengendary)? If they're not too essential, I might just not even risk it, otherwise I'll make sure to check the forum posts on Nexus for people with issues (or not) on SE.

 

 

22 hours ago, alex77r4 said:

We left some points in this war and I think it may be good to see it.

1 - Yours memory problems because Skyrim not need 16 Gb of RAM.

2 - Yours temperatures because Skyrim must not put that stress in your machine

3 - ENB but i'm not expert in it. Another user must help you with it.

 

1 - well, I'm not sure SSE is using that much RAM. The only thing I discovered, when looking for potential (memory) issues, is that my page file is rather large (24 GB). I have no way to say if this is due to Skyrim, it just looked weird and since I had crashes that made me believe it was a memory issue when loading new cells, it was a logical thing to consider, but without real proof. So unless you have a very easy way of really verifying if the page file/memory leaks are related to Skyrim's operation, it might not be worth the effort atm.

 

2 - I think that was a one-time thing (that's also why I mentioned it, I hadn't seen it happen before), perhaps caused by other processes still running. In my latest crash-free tests my GPU temp hardly comes near 50° (and it's usage % remains low), while the CPU temp hovers between 64-70°C, so all normal.

 

3 - well, I guess that's going to be one of the next first tests to do... since it doesn't actually require 'mods', but just adding files to the main Skyrim folder, I might do this first and test it once or twice (at high speeds), to see if it's still an issue. 
UPDATE: tested it twice now with the ENB active (no helper mods though), but no impact on the game other than a 2 fps drop, even with coc from the main menu.

 

 

 

Edited by Q2R51
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3 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

I just tested what you suggested as well:

- coc-ing with my now functioning game, from the main menu: did 3 runs (2 at regular speed, 1 at increased speed), no crashes;

- changing the SKSE.ini name, and using coc from the main menu: did 2 runs (1 regular, 1 high speed), no crashes.

 

So it seems that the coc was not the (main) cause of my issues. Perhaps only the fact I did a portable install from MO2, so that all files are one one drive, rather than spread over C:/ and D:/? Don't know, it's weird. But it's good that I can't even attempt to crash the game atm.

 

Then, why you get constant CTD for 9 days?

WHY... that is the point that i can not understand...

 

It's not because of coc from the main menu, it's not because of skse.ini...

Maybe was solved with the portable MO2 or by regenerating the INI files...

What else have you changed?

Seems that we can not know it never... Is a pity, but the important point is: Your game works.

 

3 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

Which mods are potential issues (in Lengendary)? If they're not too essential, I might just not even risk it, otherwise I'll make sure to check the forum posts on Nexus for people with issues (or not) on SE.

 

I get some reports from True Storms about some performance issues and some orphan script, but that was on Legendary and probably caused by wrong load order or faulty compatibility patch.

The other mod was Indistinguishable Billboards but I mistook it for Notice Boards.

Don't install Notice Boards, it may break some quest of the Base Game.

 

3 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

1 - well, I'm not sure SSE is using that much RAM.

When you write that your game consumes 16 + 24 GB, I automatically think of a bad papyrus script.

But if you had removed mods, probably the bad mod with the bad script is gone.

Just take a look at your memory usage to verify that Skyrim, normally, doesn't use 16Gb of RAM.

 

3 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

2 - I think that was a one-time thing

You can use a simply tool like GPU-Z to monitor GPU usage. Is a very small program that i have open every day and give you historic info about GPU usage, temps, Vram....

 

3 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

3 - well, I guess that's going to be one of the next first tests to do...

ENB works with Win10 but you must make some special operations to make it run the first time.

If you have a working ENB 15 days ago enable it and is done.

The rest is select your preset, we have hundreds in nexus, and make tuning to your preferences.

But i can not help you in that area because i not use ENB, my old machine loses half of my frames with it.

Edited by alex77r4
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11 hours ago, alex77r4 said:

 

Then, why you get constant CTD for 9 days?

WHY... that is the point that i can not understand...

 

It's not because of coc from the main menu, it's not because of skse.ini...

Maybe was solved with the portable MO2 or by regenerating the INI files...

What else have you changed?

Seems that we can not know it never... Is a pity, but the important point is: Your game works.

 

I wish I could tell you why I had those crashes for so long ?. It bugs me too, since not knowing makes me worry it might somehow return when I change something without noticing. But I shared all that I changed.

 

In the meantime I've installed all 'performance' and visual mods on my list (truestorms, obsidian weathers, texture packs, ENB, realistic water, ELFX, SMIM, etc. - anything where I think it might impact the 'world building' on a global scale (so not specific new houses or custom DLC). I just ran around it at high speeds, from Riverwood all the way to the mages college. Consistent frames over 75fps non-stop, with my graphics settings set to ulta. I've never been able to run the game like this, you've no idea how happy it makes me, how much I look forward to really diving into the beautiful, rough nature of Tamriel to relax.

 

Now to install all the other mods I listed, do a few final 'speed runs' through the world to test that there are no crashes, and then I can actually start a new game from scratch. The only thing I might run into, I hope, is some crashes with some specific mods for houses or DLC, but those are particular issues that I'll deal with then, and normally they shouldn't be 'save breaking' if I have enough saves from before entering those locations.

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5 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

I wish I could tell you why I had those crashes for so long ?. It bugs me too, since not knowing makes me worry it might somehow return when I change something without noticing. But I shared all that I changed.

 

Well, this is the eternal discussion, some may say "Skyrim is Skyrim and does those things ..." but I say "When a program crashes, it always has a reason" and Skyrim is an executable like any other.

Of course, Skyrim is a complex game with many basic mods, hundreds of normal mods, many configuration options, and virtually no one has the same configuration.

Sometimes knowing exactly why Skyrim does CTD is not easy and this seems to be one of those situations.

 

Can it happen again? YES .... sorry but YESSSSSS .... And you know it ....

It seems that you can handle the computer, MO2 and the game very well. You follow practically all the necessary steps to fix yours CTD: reinstall, remove mods, reconfigure, re-download, reconfigure, check everything over and over again...

We must have overlooked something that solves your CTD. But what??? We cannot know.

 

Your game seems to work perfectly and I think we can assume your problems are gone.

If you have other problems in the future, please open a new ticket.

Edited by alex77r4
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The only thing I forgot to mention is that in my last tests, where everything worked, I had purple pebbles/rocks on the ground ?. But I think that's probably a mesh/texture issue from the landscape and grass mods I installed; once all my mods are installed I will run Dyndolod and that will hopefully take care of that issue.

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Well, I installed all my mods, ran Loot, Dyndolod, ran Wyre Bash for a batched script, and tried a game. I used tgm and ran around 2/3 of the main roads of Skyrim at 450 speed multiplier. I torched a guy on the road in flames, I entered the Legacy of the Dragonborn museum in Solitude... all without any crashes or issues. No more purple rocks. Hardly any stuttering either, and I'm running all settings and textures on highest quality. I'm consistently over 70 fps, even at these high running/rendering speeds. So I dare say I'm ready for a proper game now, finally, after nearly 2 weeks.

 

The only thing I did notice this time is that my GPU is working harder; at around 80% and reaching 80°C, the fans are blowing full throttle. But I guess that's to be expected, with so many visual mods, high resolution textures, and me speeding through the world, constantly generating new terrain.

I wonder, if I limit my FPS to 60 again (sacrificing around 10-20 from what I currently have), would that make the GPU work a little less intensive? It's a small hit that won't be noticeable, and if it helps keep the GPU a little bit cooler, it's an easy sacrifice for me.

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13 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

The only thing I did notice this time is that my GPU is working harder; at around 80% and reaching 80°C,

 

That's kinda hot. What video card do you have? Exact model, please. How long have you had it? Have you ever cleaned it?

 

Any game consume GPU but 80º Celsius can be near the maximum acceptable temp, depend of the exact model, and average 80% usage, normally, not mean 80º Celsius. My old GTX get 80 degrees but only when i play half hour at 100% GPU usage in new games.

 

Is recommended limit the FPS to not have tearing and provide a bit of relax to the machine. Additionally, Skyrim have the physics computations tied to the frame rate and you must make some adjust to have steady physics computations over 60 FPS.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/5aa7w5/confirmed_120fps_fix_for_skyrim/

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/15946

 

I presume you have a 144 mhz monitor and SSE can generate 144 FPS but that depend of a lot parameters. The first point i recommend you is press Shit+F12 while you are playing to temporally disable ENB and look how many FPS you lost by ENB and how many GPU is consumed by ENB. 

Normally, ENB consume half of the frames and is responsible of half of the GPU usage. Is the main point i not like it. Of course, give you better graphics but the cost is excessive, IMO. SweetFX or ReShade can give you similar graphics at half of the cost.

Edited by alex77r4
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21 hours ago, Q2R51 said:

The only thing I forgot to mention is that in my last tests, where everything worked, I had purple pebbles/rocks on the ground ?. But I think that's probably a mesh/texture issue from the landscape and grass mods I installed; once all my mods are installed I will run Dyndolod and that will hopefully take care of that issue.

 

I doubt it.

 

You need to get to the root of the issue before throwing even more at the game engine. 

 

80% of GPU usage and 80C temp mean your GPU is shitting bricks at this point, this by itself may be the cause of CTDs, like PSU not being able to supply it with enough power and then anything can happen. Purple stuff can be caused by malfunctioning GPU as well.

 

I think the first thing you might try is doing anything to reduce GPU temperature. Installing MSI Afterburner and setting GPU fan control would be a good idea, set it to run at 100% when GPU reaches 65C. Yes, GPU will get noisier but will perform better overall.

 

Then again, broken landscape stuff may cause CTDs by itself - if it's really problematic. Get rid of the mods changing landscape/grass and see if the problem with purple textures go away.

 

IOW, solve observable problems (pink textures, GPU temp) first before trying anything else.

Edited by phillout
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, alex77r4 said:

What video card do you have? Exact model, please. How long have you had it? Have you ever cleaned it?

 

My GPU is an Nvidia GeForce RTX 2060. PC is new from February, I vacuumed the insides about a month ago. Max operating temp for the 2060 is 88°C, although running it for long periods at 80°C isn't advisable. 


I've limited my frames to 59fps again, the ENB originally had it set to that. But indeed, my monitor can handle 144 and the Display Tweaks mod helped me reach higher FPS, so I had disabled the ENB's limiter. But I'm fine with 60, so I made sure that both in the ENB and in Display Tweaks the limit is set to 59 now.

 

I ran a test, high-speed run again for 5 minutes through the entirety of Skyrim. Graphics Quality settings still at Ultra. Solid 59fps, only occasionally a small stutter dropping some frames. But when flying through the world that isn't surprising, I'd think. Screenshots of the load on my system below; I'd think they are quite reasonable now, wouldn't you say?

 

 

1 hour ago, phillout said:

80% of GPU usage and 80C temp mean your GPU is shitting bricks at this point, this by itself may be the cause of CTDs, like PSU not being able to supply it with enough power and then anything can happen. Purple stuff can be caused by malfunctioning GPU as well.

 

I think the first thing you might try is doing anything to reduce GPU temperature. Installing MSI Afterburner and setting GPU fan control would be a good idea, set it to run at 100% when GPU reaches 65C. Yes, GPU will get noisier but will perform better overall.

 

My GPU was not having such high load or temp when I had my initial CTD's, so I highly doubt it was caused by it. I only saw those high temps appear yesterday, after installing all my mods, and speed-running through Skyrim at 70-90 fps. The purple stones were all gone, and when they appeared my GPU was doing fine, but I had installed multiple texture mods, without having run Dyndolod. Once I ran Dyndolod and all patches (including batch patch) were installed, I didn't see any purple pebbles anymore. 

 

MSI Afterburner is already installed. It's MSI that is giving me a readout of temps on my control pad screen, it's how I knew what the temps/load was (besides hearing the fan blazing full throttle, of course). I've set the fan curve slightly more aggressive. 

 

Here's some readouts from my system load during that last test run through Skyrim, at 59fps and Ultra settings:

 

20210807_154443.thumb.jpg.07f6e52290c610938bf5a4e805481df6.jpg20210807_154218.thumb.jpg.217c3104955a311a381a2acdd284c607.jpg

 

Edited by Q2R51
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Those purple textures shouldn't be in the game before running DynDOLOD and Bash. If there are some problems with meshes and textures, they may cause CTDs w/o any visual effects. You may have old LE meshes still in the game, anything.

 

At least this is where I would start. Suit yourself. 

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