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VirginMarie

Shout Like a Virgin Evolved SE & LE

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4 hours ago, bkeul said:

Hey guys, I received my shout, fast travelled to Whiterun, Cassia appeared, but she just follows me around, she doesn't say anything, she doesn't give me any letter nor does anything, just follows me. The quest never started.

 

Trying to talk to her, she just replies with standard NPC phrases like "Yes?", "Do you want something?", "What can I do for you?", but nothing happens.

 

Any ideas?

 

2 hours ago, reaper2014 said:

I started a new game, played through defeating the first dragon, then shouted. I then went back to Riverwood to stash some loot, then to Whiterun to meet with the Jarl. Just to be sure, I went back and forth between Whiterun and Riverwood again. Still nothing.

 

I'm going to reload to during Bleak Falls Barrow, this time with Papyrus logging turned on.

  1. Did you you install version 0.5 of Toys? If not, and you have an older version, SLaVE will misbehave
  2. Did you start a new game? If not, SLaVE will misbehave
  3. Did you run the Installation test on SLaVE's first MCM Tab? Does it succeed? If no see Troubleshooting #3

Troubleshooting #4 is what to expect for this first event in the quest.

You can try the MCM, Misc tab, "Force Player Reset", but I don't expect this to help.

 

There must be something wrong in terms of installation steps. We know other people have started the quest (completed this first stage) successfully. This is just the first point at which you would find installation problems, although usually the installation test will reveal such problems too.

 

If the above does not help you, please provide a papyrus log covering the point where you first shout, up to where you've tried and given up on meeting Cassia. If you don't know how to get the papyrus log, see FAQ 12 (same link above).

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Sorry - mit 65 Jahren, als Großmutter mit vier Töchtern, einem Sohn und sieben Enkelkindern, werde ich eine Person sein, die viel vergisst. Es gibt noch eine Sache, die mich irritiert. Auf den Wortwänden rund um die Wasserfallanlagen - wenn ich dabei bin - beginnt mein rechter Unterarm ... Immer... unkontrolliert zu flattern. (Ich kann es nur so beschreiben.) Alle meine Installationen für Skelett- und CBBE-Körperphysik (3Ba, SMP, CBBC) etc. sind absolut auf dem Stand der Technik, einschließlich SKSE, Papyrus Util etc. - warum ist das so? Ich habe nicht gefragt, ob ich es nicht schon in LE gehabt hätte.
 
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6 hours ago, darthnoldor said:

if I install the SE 8 Beta version, to install the final SE version, I Will have to start a new game, or have a "free saved game"? Thanks for reply ☺️

 

During beta, the chance is 50/50. Depends on what needs to be done to fix problems found and so since that's unknown, we can't know now. It's likely the next version of SLaVE will need updated Toys too, and Toys is in that same state where it might need a new game. Toys is further along, in Beta 3 now, so its not as likely for it. Between the 2 I give it 50/50. This is unfortunately the nature if beta, but I do appreciate people that are willing to be the early adopters and provide feedback.

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@Simplicitas Sancta

 

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I mean, if you know from years of experience how to do something right, you don't have to start from scratch and start a new game to be able to enjoy your mod

The key problem is that to use SLaVE, you are installing Toys. Toys is an esm, so its impossible to follow the rules of load order. See Golden Rule.

 

Using save cleaners will help lots, and the fact that Toys is esl flagged might help too, but you should still expect the creeping save corruption syndrome. What you are doing can easily appear to be fine for a while, but then boom! Any problems you report, I have to consider that it can easily be caused by corrupt save. 

 

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In no other mod that I have, the runtime time is as long as here. sometimes I had to wait minutes before Nocturnal came or even got into the script. I know the mod by heart, so I waited patiently

I don't understand. Can you explain what you were doing, then what you saw. For example, are you talking about when Nocturnal should appear after a shout?

 

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... but what do the people who don't know it do? I'm almost desperate at the Dragon Priest Masks quest. That didn't appear in my questlog on console. So I couldn't read the Quest ID, which was urgently needed because I already had all nine masks in my possession. The step "find all nine masks" did not respond.

This could be caused by save corruption. We need to test this where you've started with a new game. I've added it to my list of things to check. Let's see if someone else also has the problem.

 

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The colors you use in "Toys" clash extremely with the red Virgin tattoo that is on my ass.

Hehe I was just thrilled that I got that damn tattoo to work at all in SE. Initially it turned all SLaVE characters black. I felt it looked great with my very red hair! But a pink that matches the Toys Insignia Set is good idea.

 

Anybody else think the ass Tat eats your eyes? :P

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If you give me a Steam contact, I could and would like to talk to you privately and in more detail in any case.

Best way to reach me is to join the Toys Discord Server. Link in my signature. I'm not using Steam Friends at all.

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 I have "Project Rainforest" and "Realistic Water Two" active in the game. Both of these factors mean that the waterfalls behave differently and have different dimensions than in the undemodded state. The activation points for "Imp. Waterf." are now often in areas for me that I can only reach with "TCL off"

Dealing with mods that change locations, would be like chasing an never ending war. I change for that mod, then it does not work in vanilla. So sorry, unlikely that I'd try to fix this.

 

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‎‎On the word walls around the waterfall sproperties - when I'm there - my right forearm begins ... always... uncontrollably fluttering.‎‎

Yes its a known problem but I can't fix it myself. I'm not skilled with animation creation and that's how the animation came when I acquired the permission to use it. Its been like that for 4 years and the author is not around. We have an animator on the Toys Team that one day might want to fix it, but its pretty low on the priority list.

 

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44 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

are you talking about when Nocturnal should appear after a shout?


I have been using the SE version of SLaVE and it has been working well for me.

 

I can report that Nocturnal arrives instantly when I shout. I am having a lot of fun shouting to summon Nocturnal so she can fight my enemies.

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8 minutes ago, Herowynne said:


I have been using the SE version of SLaVE and it has been working well for me.

 

I can report that Nocturnal arrives instantly when I shout. I am having a lot of fun shouting to summon Nocturnal so she can fight my enemies.

oh come on! The truth is that you are summoning her in hopes of the "pain is pleasure" encounter! :P

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23 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

oh come on! The truth is that you are summoning her in hopes of the "pain is pleasure" encounter! :P

 

No... um... not really... okay you got me. 🥵

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2 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

 

  1. Did you you install version 0.5 of Toys? If not, and you have an older version, SLaVE will misbehave
  2. Did you start a new game? If not, SLaVE will misbehave
  3. Did you run the Installation test on SLaVE's first MCM Tab? Does it succeed? If no see Troubleshooting #3

Troubleshooting #4 is what to expect for this first event in the quest.

You can try the MCM, Misc tab, "Force Player Reset", but I don't expect this to help.

 

There must be something wrong in terms of installation steps. We know other people have started the quest (completed this first stage) successfully. This is just the first point at which you would find installation problems, although usually the installation test will reveal such problems too.

 

If the above does not help you, please provide a papyrus log covering the point where you first shout, up to where you've tried and given up on meeting Cassia. If you don't know how to get the papyrus log, see FAQ 12 (same link above).


Thank you for replying.

 

1. Yes, I have downloaded the new Toys right after downloading SLaVE.

2. Not 100%, but I was still in the Alternate Start Hub. (Do you believe this could be the case?)

3. Yeah, test installation worked 100% for both Toys and SLaVE.

 

I'll try to get the Papyrus Log and a few different things here to see if it works.

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46 minutes ago, bkeul said:

2. Not 100%, but I was still in the Alternate Start Hub. (Do you believe this could be the case?)

Not sure what this means, but if it means its an early prior save, made with another load order, then this is not a new game and...

a) it could be the cause

b) will lead to problems as the save will become more and more corrupt over time

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So, first time playing with this mod -- I too had the issues with Cassia spawning but then having no dialogue.   I reloaded to before that first shout, and did it again, and this time she had dialogue... but later (after a word wall encounter and another shout where Nocturnal aided in a dragon combat), Cassia appeared a second time when I returned to Whiterun, following me around and having no dialogue.  I'm not sure if she had some quest to talk to me about, or if it was a glitch respawning her after the original time.

 

I went looking here for troubleshooting options and saw the comments about starting a new game - I'd started with one of my vanilla base saves (which, alas, I only have up through level 3 right after acquiring Breezehome so far -- my LE system has higher level saves, but I'm testing this on SE).   That one which doesn't have *any* Sexlab mods, and it seemed to work fine until the Cassia issue.  I'd used the same vanilla base save for my testing with Toy Story a few weeks back.  Is it truly necessary to start with a brand new game given that?   If so, then perhaps you might want to seriously reconsider the initial quest -- being forced to start a new game, almost certainly triggering Virgin Training by around level 3, and then having to grind in all that bondage gear all the way to level 10 just to allow for the initial Clavicus Vile quest to begin seems like a rather off-putting way to begin the module for anyone new to it.

 

I'm going to put it aside for now -- I don't have the energy right now to try again with a new game for this - I can see potential in what I've seen so far, but that grind to level 10 from a new game start is more than I want to deal with now.

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21 minutes ago, knots1353 said:

Is it truly necessary to start with a brand new game given that? 

Absolutely, there is really no hope of anything working right if you don't. You see the problems at this point because that's when the mod is starting into its first quests. An early save is not anything like a new game. The new game has a new load order. The early save, if only 1 second of playing has the old load order. 

 

In modding you never break the Golden Rule unless you want to create corrupt saves. This has nothing to do with SLaVE and Toys, its all mods/skyrim. Because Toys is an esm, it cannot just fall to the end of your load order.

 

 

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Training by around level 3, and then having to grind in all that bondage gear all the way to level 10 just to allow for the initial Clavicus Vile quest to begin seems like a rather off-putting way to begin the module for anyone new to it.

 

You can do the Clavicus quest at level 1.

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11 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

Absolutely, there is really no hope of anything working right if you don't. You see the problems at this point because that's when the mod is starting into its first quests. An early save is not anything like a new game. The new game has a new load order. The early save, if only 1 second of playing has the old load order. 

 

In modding you never break the Golden Rule unless you want to create corrupt saves. This has nothing to do with SLaVE and Toys, its all mods/skyrim. Because Toys is an esm, it cannot just fall to the end of your load order.

 

 

 

You can do the Clavicus quest at level 1.

 

So is there something unusual about Toys.esm then?   The Golden Rule is that you don't change load order after you start... but you can always add new mods to the end of that load order.  An ESM, by definition must come before anything that uses it in the load order, but you do not *have* to sort load order to put ESMs first as long as nothing requiring them comes first... so if Toys is put before SLaVE or any other mod that uses it, it should work.  (LOOT is stupid about this, BTW, and forces unknown ESMs to the front... but that's not a requirement, and is one reason I do all my plugin sorting manually.)

 

In fact, in almost every single load I have in MO2 (and I have dozens of builds between Skyrim LE and SE - including four Toys builds...), SexLab.esm itself  *always* comes after all my core non-Sexlab related ESPs used in my vanilla build because I start almost every build by copying my vanilla build, then adding Sexlab, and the Sexlab related mods that I want to use.  I've *never* had a load order issue doing this except when a Sexlab mod depends on another Sexlab mod - and there I'm careful to keep the load order correct for those mods.   So if Toys.esm is before everything which uses it, why would it possibly have any load order related issues?

 

As for doing the Clavicus quest at level 1 - I went to Falkreath - the dog isn't there.   I checked the wiki - he doesn't spawn until you're level 10.   Is there another way to start it?

 

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6 minutes ago, knots1353 said:

 

As for doing the Clavicus quest at level 1 - I went to Falkreath - the dog isn't there.   I checked the wiki - he doesn't spawn until you're level 10.   Is there another way to start it?

 

 

You could probably use Timing is Everything if all else fails

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55 minutes ago, knots1353 said:

So is there something unusual about Toys.esm then?

No different than any other esm. Its only special in so far as the way any esm is. 

The golden rule is don't change load order. To do that, its only safe to add a new mod to the end of the LO. Because you can't do that with an esm, an esm add is always a LO change, thus always breaks the golden rule.

 

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As for doing the Clavicus quest at level 1 - I went to Falkreath - the dog isn't there.   I checked the wiki - he doesn't spawn until you're level 10.   Is there another way to start it?

I know the wiki says that. The wiki is wrong if you are using SLaVE because SLaVE starts the quest. 

Trust me, I'd never make a quest that sends you to non-existent dog, where almost everyone is not going to be level 10 yet. 

 

Reasons the dog could not be there for you:

  1. Your save is corrupt, thus Nocturnal's meeting could not successfully start the quest
  2. SLaVE has a bug

I'm ruling out #2 for three reasons.... a) we have reports of people going beyond this point, you are the first with no dog, b) we need to test this after starting a new game, to rule out corrupt save, and c) SLaVE has had this quest, starting this way, for 4 years with no change

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On 4/15/2021 at 5:51 PM, VirginMarie said:
If loved

 

to death, it will then crash in a smoldering heap of death.

 

 

This is how the Paarthurnax Dilemma ends, huh?  🤣

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41 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

No different than any other esm. Its only special in so far as the way any esm is. 

The golden rule is don't change load order. To do that, its only safe to add a new mod to the end of the LO. Because you can't do that with an esm, an esm add is always a LO change, thus always breaks the golden rule.

 

I know the wiki says that. The wiki is wrong if you are using SLaVE because SLaVE starts the quest. 

Trust me, I'd never make a quest that sends you to non-existent dog, where almost everyone is not going to be level 10 yet. 

 

Reasons the dog could not be there for you:

  1. Your save is corrupt, thus Nocturnal's meeting could not successfully start the quest
  2. SLaVE has a bug

I'm ruling out #2 for three reasons.... a) we have reports of people going beyond this point, you are the first with no dog, b) we need to test this after starting a new game, to rule out corrupt save, and c) SLaVE has had this quest, starting this way, for 4 years with no change

 

We might be getting ahead of ourselves in the analysis. @knots1353, have you checked to see if the quest is running using the console? Have you talked to the dog's owner in Falkreath to see if he has anything to say? If the quest isn't running, have you verified with the console whether or not it's failing because of an impossible-to-fill alias?

 

While VM may be correct about save corruption, there is a 3rd option - that the quest can't start because of a 3rd party mod interaction or because the game is in some unexpected state that the authors of the "A Daedra's Best Friend" didn't anticipate. I ran into a case like that a few characters back where the Companions questline got stuck because it couldn't fill the alias for one of the Glenmoril witches correctly and it decided to just never start the quest.

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26 minutes ago, MonVert said:

 

This is how the Paarthurnax Dilemma ends, huh?  🤣

 

Just to share for others what you are referencing... :P

 

Effect on Dragons
Thu'um of Love word 2 will cause love in dragon form, then the dragon transforms into Nord form and love prevails. Your orgasm saps their health the same as others. A virgin with the 3rd word has a chance of causing instant death. After loving, dragons will transform back and fly off, in shock. If loved to death, it will then crash in a smoldering heap of death.

 

 

Now Its your turn to share the meaning. I myself don't know that mod but did find it on Nexus.

 

By the way... The Love Shout wont kill 1 or 2 special dragons that are "essential" just like it wont for an essential humanoid NCP. So not sure if your dream will be realized.

 

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42 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

 

We might be getting ahead of ourselves in the analysis. @knots1353, have you checked to see if the quest is running using the console? Have you talked to the dog's owner in Falkreath to see if he has anything to say? If the quest isn't running, have you verified with the console whether or not it's failing because of an impossible-to-fill alias?

 

While VM may be correct about save corruption, there is a 3rd option - that the quest can't start because of a 3rd party mod interaction or because the game is in some unexpected state that the authors of the "A Daedra's Best Friend" didn't anticipate. I ran into a case like that a few characters back where the Companions questline got stuck because it couldn't fill the alias for one of the Glenmoril witches correctly and it decided to just never start the quest.

 

I talked with the blacksmith and the guards, both of whom normally have dialogue relating to this quest when you're level 10 - they didn't have it in this case.   The quest wasn't in the journal either, although I didn't check for it in the console.   I seriously doubt save corruption - the save which I started with is the same save I've used for dozens of profiles... at least one of which I'm fairly certain included that quest start.  I seriously doubt 3rd party mod interactions either as none of my base mods have any effect on quests at all, and the only Sexlab mods I had were SL Aroused, SLAL, a couple animation packs, Toys, Toy Story, and SLaVE... unless there's a mod interaction between Toy Story and SLaVE?

Are you saying SLaVE is actually supposed to start that quest?   I got a pop up dialogue about it, but I didn't think it actually began the quest.
 

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1 hour ago, VirginMarie said:

No different than any other esm. Its only special in so far as the way any esm is. 

The golden rule is don't change load order. To do that, its only safe to add a new mod to the end of the LO. Because you can't do that with an esm, an esm add is always a LO change, thus always breaks the golden rule.

 

Except I add ESM files to the end of the load order all the time.   Never had a problem with it, as long as I don't add anything *depending* on that ESM first.

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15 minutes ago, knots1353 said:

Except I add ESM files to the end of the load order all the time.   Never had a problem with it, as long as I don't add anything *depending* on that ESM first.

 

Regardless of where you put ESM files in your load order, Skyrim will always load them before your ESP files - and it won't tell you that it does this, but it does do it behind the scenes.

 

The problem with this, and with injecting any mod into your load order, or even with running LOOT on a live game, is that if you have stuff that uses soft dependencies - which happens a lot in Loverslab stuff, since people want to offer support without roping you into a million fetishes just to use their mod - it can cause problems with scripts and with quest aliases since formID references that are baked into your saved game file change dynamically to reflect the new load order... and the scripts especially don't often catch up. This can lead to the kind of save corruption that VM is talking about. While it was a bigger problem with LE because the failure modes tended to intersect with Skyrim LE's existing memory addressing problems, it's problematic in SSE as well. 

 

Ultimately, though, this is all speculation unless you can get a SQS readout indicating why the quest didn't start, because we have no way to know why the quest failed to start from our perspective - we can only relate scenarios we've encountered elsewhere or in our own testing/gameplay.

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@knots1353, so that we can understand the problem better, can you do three things and tell us the results?

 

1) Make sure all your masters are before your plugins, so the load order you set is the same as the load order that goes into the game,

2) Start a new character and just power through to the start of SLaVE to confirm whether or not these problems occur on a completely fresh game, and

3 - only required if your new character still has problems) Upload your load order to modwat.ch so we can see your setup?

 

If the mod works correctly on a new start, then I'm pretty confident the problem is an issue with your save and/or with the load order changing mid playthrough. We need to rule this out first before we can examine other possibilities.

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6 minutes ago, gregaaz said:

 

Regardless of where you put ESM files in your load order, Skyrim will always load them before your ESP files - and it won't tell you that it does this, but it does do it behind the scenes.

 

The problem with this, and with injecting any mod into your load order, or even with running LOOT on a live game, is that if you have stuff that uses soft dependencies - which happens a lot in Loverslab stuff, since people want to offer support without roping you into a million fetishes just to use their mod - it can cause problems with scripts and with quest aliases since formID references that are baked into your saved game file change dynamically to reflect the new load order... and the scripts especially don't often catch up. This can lead to the kind of save corruption that VM is talking about. While it was a bigger problem with LE because the failure modes tended to intersect with Skyrim LE's existing memory addressing problems, it's problematic in SSE as well. 

 

Ultimately, though, this is all speculation unless you can get a SQS readout indicating why the quest didn't start, as well as doing an xEdit check against your load order to establish it anything that was present before you dropped in SLaVE might have already saved a different version of this quest to your save file or messed with its alias targets.

 

It's an interesting topic..   I did a deep dive into this a year or so back, and a lot of places tell you that because ESMs are loaded first despite the order in the plugin file, you can't add one to an existing save... and yet, if that were true, you'd never be able to add SOS, Sexlab, DD, or Zaz, or any of many other mods on Nexus (ApachiiHair.esm is one which gets into a lot of my load orders...) to an existing save.   And yet, everyone does this ALL THE TIME, with all of the mods I just mentioned.   That's because save game references are not quite tied into the physical load index as you might expect - they're tied into the mod index in the plugin order - which *does* put the newly added ESM into the correct slot to work.

 

Now... if you then run LOOT on your load order, you can certainly expect it to mess things up badly because it changes the mod index - but if you simply add an ESM to the end of the load order, the save for that will work just fine.   Unfortunately, while you can find discussion which explains this, it's hard to find, especially since Bethesda's old forums are gone, and the LOOT docs incorrectly state that you *have* to have ESMs in the front of your load order... although you may notice that LOOT always puts USLEP/USSEP in slot 5 with other ESMs behind that (and possibly behind .ESLs in SE) - that's because the plugin.txt order still matters for saves even though the ESMs are loaded first.

The only caveat you may have to worry about with ESMs listed later in the plugin list is that if there is an ESP earlier in the plugin list which modifies a base game object, and the ESM also modifies the same object, then the ESP will override the ESM even though it appears that the ESP is loading earlier.   These kinds of things aren't a load order issue, however - they're a mod conflict, and would still happen even in a new save game with the ESMs all neatly slotted in the beginning of the load order.

The upside being - yes, you can safely add ESMs later in the plugins.txt file without worries even though Skyrim will load them earlier.   No, you cannot change that order safely, even if the only change is you moved the ESMs first into the order you think they're *actually* loaded - because *that* would in fact change the mod index and thus break form IDs in the save.
 
 

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1 hour ago, knots1353 said:

 

I talked with the blacksmith and the guards, both of whom normally have dialogue relating to this quest when you're level 10 - they didn't have it in this case.   The quest wasn't in the journal either, although I didn't check for it in the console.   I seriously doubt save corruption - the save which I started with is the same save I've used for dozens of profiles... at least one of which I'm fairly certain included that quest start.  I seriously doubt 3rd party mod interactions either as none of my base mods have any effect on quests at all, and the only Sexlab mods I had were SL Aroused, SLAL, a couple animation packs, Toys, Toy Story, and SLaVE... unless there's a mod interaction between Toy Story and SLaVE?

Are you saying SLaVE is actually supposed to start that quest?   I got a pop up dialogue about it, but I didn't think it actually began the quest.
 

 

What Gregazz said. He's one of our Toys contributors and knows his stuff.

In addition I will answer your things from above...

  • Because of the load order problem, which creates a corrupt save over time, the quest is failing to start. As Gregazz has said, Skyrim is resorting your mods, they are not being used as you have set them. ESMs can never load before ESPs and Skyrim enforces that. MO is deceiving you
  • Yes SLaVE starts that quest. This is why it can start before level 10. But apparently it can't start the quest because of corruption
  • Toy Story and SLaVE don't talk to each other. They do share the same means of checking for busy state through toys, so they don't clobber each other with animations at the same time (just a fun fact, has no bearing on our topic)

 

This is me successfully getting the quest. I've tried it just now. She is level 2

20210417204229_1.jpg

 

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13 minutes ago, knots1353 said:

 

It's an interesting topic..   I did a deep dive into this a year or so back, and a lot of places tell you that because ESMs are loaded first despite the order in the plugin file, you can't add one to an existing save... and yet, if that were true, you'd never be able to add SOS, Sexlab, DD, or Zaz, or any of many other mods on Nexus (ApachiiHair.esm is one which gets into a lot of my load orders...) to an existing save.   And yet, everyone does this ALL THE TIME, with all of the mods I just mentioned.   That's because save game references are not quite tied into the physical load index as you might expect - they're tied into the mod index in the plugin order - which *does* put the newly added ESM into the correct slot to work.

 

Now... if you then run LOOT on your load order, you can certainly expect it to mess things up badly because it changes the mod index - but if you simply add an ESM to the end of the load order, the save for that will work just fine.   Unfortunately, while you can find discussion which explains this, it's hard to find, especially since Bethesda's old forums are gone, and the LOOT docs incorrectly state that you *have* to have ESMs in the front of your load order... although you may notice that LOOT always puts USLEP/USSEP in slot 5 with other ESMs behind that (and possibly behind .ESLs in SE) - that's because the plugin.txt order still matters for saves even though the ESMs are loaded first.

The only caveat you may have to worry about with ESMs listed later in the plugin list is that if there is an ESP earlier in the plugin list which modifies a base game object, and the ESM also modifies the same object, then the ESP will override the ESM even though it appears that the ESP is loading earlier.   These kinds of things aren't a load order issue, however - they're a mod conflict, and would still happen even in a new save game with the ESMs all neatly slotted in the beginning of the load order.

The upside being - yes, you can safely add ESMs later in the plugins.txt file without worries even though Skyrim will load them earlier.   No, you cannot change that order safely, even if the only change is you moved the ESMs first into the order you think they're *actually* loaded - because *that* would in fact change the mod index and thus break form IDs in the save.
 
 

 

Very interesting. This runs counter to my experience, but I'm open to the possibility there's a gap in my understanding and I'll investigate it further as time permits. I'm always enthusiastic to learn new things about the game's mechanics. 

 

That said, I dropped in a second response where I asked you to try a couple of things to rule out save related issues from your problems. I'd appreciate if you still did those things before we examine other potential problem causes. I get it that you have a high level of confidence that starting the mod in an existing, live game was not the problem -- but it does run counter to the mod install instructions, so we need to eliminate that variable before we can investigate further. 

 

There is one point I want to address in the interest of clear discourse. The reason USSEP.esp can load right after the Vanilla Five is because it's a master file. You can see below that even though it has an esp file extension, its file header contains an ESM flag.

 

image.png.5263ba2f3f2789ca6fe58966aa868585.png

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