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Diary Of Mine for Paradise Halls [WIP]

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Antiope_Apollonia

Antiope_Apollonia

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All of these notes come from my long playthrough that was upgraded to 2.1.7 during play.

 

  • I don't know what the current state of this is supposed to be, but slaves are still being evaluated for combat while they're bound or posing during the engagement.  I know you mentioned a while ago adding a check for whether the slave's movement is locked, but if you went through with that, it doesn't seem to have worked.  That solution would certainly be an improvement, but I still maintain the ideal solution would be to check whether the slave dealt any damage during the engagement—of course, if that's possible to do mechanically.  

  • The "good horny pet" reason often immediately overwrites the "good fucktoy" reason after sex if the slave doesn't cum.  I'm pretty sure "good fucktoy" is the better training opportunity, right?  So this would be undesirable behaviour.  Maybe "good fucktoy" needs to be classed as a major reason?

  • I'm not sure what's going on here exactly, but something is up with "in love"/"loyal" status.  Often, it... doesn't take... the first time.  The slave will fall in love or become loyal, and then at some point revert to hating her mistress, then if she falls in love a second time, it seems to be permanent.  

  • Language issues:

    • "[Slave] can notcannot hide her arousal"

    • "[Slave] shivers as you approach your handyour hand approaches"

    • "I am spoiled, I was raped by another woman, noone will want me now." → Better:  "I'm tarnished.  I was raped by another woman.  No one will ever want me now." → Maybe better still: "I can't believe I was raped by another woman.  I'm so tarnished now.  How will anyone ever love me after this?"

      • Also, this is currently playing for slaves that have only ever had consensual sex.  Not sure if this might be related to the ongoing problems with consensual sex triggering punishment notifications, or if this is a separate issue.  

      • How about an additional variant that plays for slaves whose virginity you took—but not after they've fallen in love: "I can't believe I was deflowered by another woman.  I'm so tarnished now.  How will anyone ever love me after this?"

    • "You can force me but you will never sublmit me!" → Better: "You can force me, but I will never submit to you!" → Maybe better still: "You can take me by force, but I will never give myself to you willingly!"

    • "I... I had sex with a girl... I am wasted."  I don't know if this is just triggering at the wrong time, or if it's a bad calque, perhaps?  "Wasted" is a euphemism for drunk, but this slave has never had alcohol.

    • Second-person (re: "you") orgasm message is playing when slaves are having sex with NPCs (HSH follower settings, AYGAS whores, etc.)

  • I don't really understand how the new "punish for posture" mechanic is supposed to work.  I'll let you clarify what you're intending before I say too much, but I can note a few things that seem pretty clearly bugs/oversights:

    • I don't know if it has any training effect, but you can clear this reason with scolds, which doesn't seem to align with my understanding of the design goal.

    • This "punish for posture" reason is being generated by other mechanics than just the intended "Pose for me, pretty!" like body inspections.

    • An unused "punish for posture" reason will remain after you release the slave from her pose; this doesn't seem to match my understanding of how it's supposed to be used.

  • Slaves often decide not to cooperate with body inspection mid-animation, so the butt slap animation never plays.  The PC continues the inspection animation without the slave.  This is also generating a "didnt_pose" reason, which I'm not sure is intended?  I don't know exactly what's supposed to happen or exactly what's going on, but it seems like those two things aren't fully aligned... The "[Slave] waits" notification plays, but the slave doesn't actually enter a waiting state—she remains in a following state.  

    • I finally got the "[Slave] won't let you touch her" response to "body inspection" for the first time (probably because I have traditionally not messed inspection early in the training of new slaves).  It generated a not_respectful punishment reason for respect training.  That doesn't seem right...

  • Slave can "didnt_listen" when you comfort with sex, and then the sex animation plays anyway.  And then, since consensual sex is being treated as punishment, you "punish with sex for didnt_listen".  Not sure exactly what's meant to be happening here, but I'm pretty sure that isn't it.  I guess either the slave shouldn't be able to not listen, or the animation shouldn't play if they don't listen.  

  • New idea: Slaves at high arousal might spontaneously start touching themselves, which can be punished for submission (and sex?) training.  -> Bonus points if you can give or deny them permission to touch themselves (a la "Keep your mouth shut" and similar features).  

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bnub345

bnub345

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4 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:
  1.  The "good horny pet" reason often immediately overwrites the "good fucktoy" reason after sex 
  2. I'm not sure what's going on here exactly, but something is up with "in love"/"loyal" status.  Often, it... doesn't take... the first time.  The slave will fall in love or become loyal, and then at some point revert to hating her mistress, then if she falls in love a second time, it seems to be permanent.  
  3. Language issues:
  4. I finally got the "[Slave] won't let you touch her" response to "body inspection" for the first time (probably because I have traditionally not messed inspection early in the training of new slaves).  It generated a not_respectful punishment reason for respect training.  That doesn't seem right...
  5. New idea: Slaves at high arousal might spontaneously start touching themselves, which can be punished for submission (and sex?) training.  -> Bonus points if you can give or deny them permission to touch themselves (a la "Keep your mouth shut" and similar features).  

 

  1. The "horny pet" reason comes from the slave following an order to masturbate. If you don't praise for this, it will remain in the queue. Maybe this can be overridden by other (more important) reasons as you said.
  2. This isn't the case in my experience, but I have only played test runs for a few hours. 
  3. There is a typo sometimes where has is used in place of as, like "has your hand approaches"
  4. Body inspection corresponds to respect training/warnings so I think this is intended. Nothing else really trains respect except the default PAHE dialogue about addressing the PC, and there are several pose trainings.
  5. I'm not opposed to this idea, but SLAroused already does these things. I understand not wanting to add extra master requirements to DoM, but it seems silly to create parallel systems that already exist elsewhere.

 

 

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Antiope_Apollonia

Antiope_Apollonia

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2 hours ago, bnub345 said:

The "horny pet" reason comes from the slave following an order to masturbate. If you don't praise for this, it will remain in the queue. Maybe this can be overridden by other (more important) reasons as you said.

No, the "good horny pet" reason comes from arousal.  "Touch yourself" is one way to get the slave aroused, but hardly the only way.  

 

2 hours ago, bnub345 said:

This isn't the case in my experience, but I have only played test runs for a few hours. 

Well I have hundreds of hours with DoM, and I've encountered this many times.  

 

2 hours ago, bnub345 said:

There is a typo sometimes where has is used in place of as, like "has your hand approaches"

Huh?

 

2 hours ago, bnub345 said:

Body inspection corresponds to respect training/warnings so I think this is intended. Nothing else really trains respect except the default PAHE dialogue about addressing the PC, and there are several pose trainings.

Respect is the easiest skill to train for most slaves.  There are tons of opportunities to train respect.  Body inspection has been stated to be intended to train humiliation.  

 

2 hours ago, bnub345 said:

I'm not opposed to this idea, but SLAroused already does these things. I understand not wanting to add extra master requirements to DoM, but it seems silly to create parallel systems that already exist elsewhere.

DoM already has a working parallel arousal system for slaves—no need to create it.  And it already has a masturbation system for slaves.  I'm merely suggesting letting the existing arousal system trigger the existing masturbation system, moderated by training.  

Edited by Antiope_Appolonia
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InsanityFactor

InsanityFactor

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8 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I'm not sure what's going on here exactly, but something is up with "in love"/"loyal" status.  Often, it... doesn't take... the first time.  The slave will fall in love or become loyal, and then at some point revert to hating her mistress, then if she falls in love a second time, it seems to be permanent.  

This is intentional, I explain it a bit in my guide but pretty much they fall in love/loyal and then "snap out of it" a number of times before staying there permanently, sometimes it sticks the first time, other times it takes 3+ instances, it just depends on personality.

 

1 hour ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Huh?

He's adding to your language issue post, he found a typo as well where sometimes "as" says "has" instead.

 

1 hour ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Respect is the easiest skill to train for most slaves.  There are tons of opportunities to train respect.  Body inspection has been stated to be intended to train humiliation. 

Might just be a bug of the latest version, I haven't tried this version yet so I can't say.

 

8 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

  • I don't know if it has any training effect, but you can clear this reason with scolds, which doesn't seem to align with my understanding of the design goal.

  • This "punish for posture" reason is being generated by other mechanics than just the intended "Pose for me, pretty!" like body inspections.

  • An unused "punish for posture" reason will remain after you release the slave from her pose; this doesn't seem to match my understanding of how it's supposed to be used.

So it's really important to understand which dialogues are from DoM/PAHE and which ones aren't. "Pose for me, pretty" is from HSH, and so has no reason to work properly with what you're describing unless Troll specifically went out of his way to include it, though I don't know if he did. In any case, that dialogue is not from this mod, pose training is meant to relate to poses from body inspections and "Let's see how much you're worth!" If "pose for me, pretty" is somehow working for you it's a happy accident but I believe not at all intended. You are liable for all sorts of weirdness when using the HSH dialogues to try and get DoM results.

 

The way the mechanic is supposed to work is that you make the slave pose via "Let's see how much you're worth!" OR a body inspection and then they will pose. During the pose, they will regularly generate a punishment reason called "Punishing for Posture" or whatever it's called. This is not a traditional punishment reason, id est, they did not actually do anything wrong. This reason exists to safeguard you from punishing for no reason. So you can whip the slave while she's posing, the reason is recorded as "punishing for posture" and her pose training increases. If she buckles under the pressure and stops posing, then the standard "did not pose" reason appears and overtakes "punishing for posture." The latter only exists while the slave is actively posing and at no other time.  It exists so that you can have more "active" pose training, rather than waiting for them to fail constantly.

Edited by InsanityFactor
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Antiope_Apollonia

Antiope_Apollonia

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1 hour ago, InsanityFactor said:

This is intentional

Huh, weird.  Well, okay, I guess.

 

1 hour ago, InsanityFactor said:

Might just be a bug of the latest version, I haven't tried this version yet so I can't say.

I never noticed it in 2.1.5 and earlier versions.  You can't prove a negative, so I can't say for sure if it never happened or not, but I assume it's probably a new issue. 

 

1 hour ago, InsanityFactor said:

"Pose for me, pretty" is from HSH [...]

Are you sure that one's from HSH and not PAHE?  Someone said that before—might have even been you—so I tried turning off "Give PAHE slaves additional dialogues" in the HSH MCM to confirm, and that was not among the dialogues removed.  I didn't further check by deactivating HSH, though, because of the hassle of the how HSH and AYGAS interact and not wanting to mess with that.

 

1 hour ago, InsanityFactor said:

and so has no reason to work properly with what you're describing unless Troll specifically went out of his way to include it, though I don't know if he did.

As far as I understand it, the "punish for posture" mechanic was added specifically in relation to my feedback about how cooperative slaves are much harder to raise pose training than uncooperative slaves, and how that's weird.  (Look back around page 66 starting with post 1635.)

 

1 hour ago, InsanityFactor said:

In any case, that dialogue is not from this mod, pose training is meant to relate to poses from body inspections and "Let's see how much you're worth!"

Well, this new "punish for posture" fundamentally cannot be used with body inspections, because the player is locked in the animation.  The whole point is to be able to use pain punishment while the slave is posing, which can only be done when using "Pose for me, pretty!"  Generating this "punish for posture" reason when the player is locked in an animation, and then not automatically clearing it when the slave is no longer posing, is precisely the problem I was talking about.  

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InsanityFactor

InsanityFactor

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1 hour ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Are you sure that one's from HSH and not PAHE?  Someone said that before—might have even been you—so I tried turning off "Give PAHE slaves additional dialogues" in the HSH MCM to confirm, and that was not among the dialogues removed.  I didn't further check by deactivating HSH, though, because of the hassle of the how HSH and AYGAS interact and not wanting to mess with that.

100% certain. It is unaffected by the MCM option because that option refers to dialogues that HSH slaves are supposed to have when they are actually inside a household, turning that option off means when they're traveling with you they don't have them. That's what "PAH" slaves means, it's the distinction between a PAH slave and a HSH slave; those with you are PAH and those in households are HSH.

 

1 hour ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

As far as I understand it, the "punish for posture" mechanic was added specifically in relation to my feedback about how cooperative slaves are much harder to raise pose training than uncooperative slaves, and how that's weird.  (Look back around page 66 starting with post 1635.)

Yes exactly. Punish for posture is to make it a more active training method, exactly as I said before. What I meant is that this entire mechanic should not work if the slave is posing through "Pose for me, pretty." It should only work for the other two homemade methods. So in other words, it is not that you are experiencing a bug that prevents you from using the feature, but rather the fact that you are able to use the feature at all, via the means you have been, is the actual bug.

 

1 hour ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Well, this new "punish for posture" fundamentally cannot be used with body inspections, because the player is locked in the animation.  The whole point is to be able to use pain punishment while the slave is posing, which can only be done when using "Pose for me, pretty!"  Generating this "punish for posture" reason when the player is locked in an animation, and then not automatically clearing it when the slave is no longer posing, is precisely the problem I was talking about.  

False. After the body inspection is over, the slave should be holding a pose. While in that pose, they will be generating the punish for posing reason. The issue you are having with the reason failing to clear is because you are using "pose for me, pretty" that is going to keep causing issues because it is not the intended vehicle to reach what DoM considers a "posing state." 

 

If you don't like that, try using the "Let's see how much you're worth!" that dialogue is the intended means of making a slave pose, and will respond correctly to all subsequent features. Personally I use that rather than the body inspection feature pretty much always, but you simply cannot get proper results from that HSH dialogue. 

 

Try doing it that way and see if it all works how it should.

Edited by InsanityFactor
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Antiope_Apollonia

Antiope_Apollonia

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58 minutes ago, InsanityFactor said:

What I meant is that this entire mechanic should not work if the slave is posing through "Pose for me, pretty."

I don't see why that would be.  DoM has always played fine with this.  Are you in a position to be speaking for Troll on this, or are you just assuming?  You're making a lot of claims here that go beyond anything Troll has said in this thread up to this point.  

 

1 hour ago, InsanityFactor said:

False. After the body inspection is over, the slave should be holding a pose.

I don't know about "should"—the slave warps forward a meter or so and takes a second or two to snap out of the inspection pose before returning to idle, but I would hardly call that "holding a pose", and I'd be surprised if it's even intended behaviour rather than just a quirk of the limitations of the animation system.  Body inspection isn't even creating the "punish for posture" reason in the first place, so your assertion that this is the intended vehicle for that mechanic just seems completely baseless.

 

The "let's see how much you're worth" feature works exactly the same as "Pose for me, pretty!"  Everything I described in my notes applies equally to both of them.  

 

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InsanityFactor

InsanityFactor

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58 minutes ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I don't see why that would be.  DoM has always played fine with this.  Are you in a position to be speaking for Troll on this, or are you just assuming?  You're making a lot of claims here that go beyond anything Troll has said in this thread up to this point.  

Well ok here's the thing. "Pose for me, pretty" is from a different mod, so in order for it work exactly the same as "let's see how much you're worth" does, Troll would have had to made a separate and deliberate incorporation for it. Like I said, I don't know if he did, but I doubt it. And since you are having issues with that particular feature, I thought it would be prudent to mention that you are using a roundabout way of testing it, so maybe using the direct means of experiencing that feature would have better results, which is "let's see how much you're worth"

 

58 minutes ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I don't know about "should"—the slave warps forward a meter or so and takes a second or two to snap out of the inspection pose before returning to idle, but I would hardly call that "holding a pose", and I'd be surprised if it's even intended behaviour rather than just a quirk of the limitations of the animation system.  Body inspection isn't even creating the "punish for posture" reason in the first place, so your assertion that this is the intended vehicle for that mechanic just seems completely baseless.

 

Well that's either a bug or a change I haven't seen yet. What is supposed to happen, or at least what has happened since that feature was first implemented months ago, is that the slave is supposed to hold a pose after the 5-6 second grope animation. They hold this pose via the same mechanic that they hold the "let's see how much you're worth" pose, meaning they can be punished for canceling it and their chance to do so is based on pose training. That's been the way it's always worked. 

 

All that being said, it's possible they no longer do that, since it was a buggy feature to begin with. I can't say, but I didn't see that in any changelogs. Either way my point in this entire thing is that HSH posing is different from PAH/DoM posing, so you should test both before reporting bugs. Because what brought me to comment in the first place was:

 

13 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

This "punish for posture" reason is being generated by other mechanics than just the intended "Pose for me, pretty!" like body inspections.

1. I don't think "pose for me pretty" actually is the intended, maybe it is, but if it is it's the #2 option. 

2. If they work the way I remember, then body inspections should generate that reason, and it's not a bug.

 

And what I meant is that the intended vehicle for posing is the "let's see how much you're worth" because that's the DoM-created posing mechanism, body inspections always are (were?) too.

 

I'm curious then, do slaves stop posing on their own through the "Pose for me, pretty" dialogue or do they hold it forever? Because that will really be the way to determine everything else.

 

Edited by InsanityFactor
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TrollAutokill

TrollAutokill

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5 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I don't see why that would be.  DoM has always played fine with this.  Are you in a position to be speaking for Troll on this, or are you just assuming?  You're making a lot of claims here that go beyond anything Troll has said in this thread up to this point.  

 

I don't know about "should"—the slave warps forward a meter or so and takes a second or two to snap out of the inspection pose before returning to idle, but I would hardly call that "holding a pose", and I'd be surprised if it's even intended behaviour rather than just a quirk of the limitations of the animation system.  Body inspection isn't even creating the "punish for posture" reason in the first place, so your assertion that this is the intended vehicle for that mechanic just seems completely baseless.

 

The "let's see how much you're worth" feature works exactly the same as "Pose for me, pretty!"  Everything I described in my notes applies equally to both of them.  

 

 

4 hours ago, InsanityFactor said:

Well ok here's the thing. "Pose for me, pretty" is from a different mod, so in order for it work exactly the same as "let's see how much you're worth" does, Troll would have had to made a separate and deliberate incorporation for it. Like I said, I don't know if he did, but I doubt it. And since you are having issues with that particular feature, I thought it would be prudent to mention that you are using a roundabout way of testing it, so maybe using the direct means of experiencing that feature would have better results, which is "let's see how much you're worth"

 

Well that's either a bug or a change I haven't seen yet. What is supposed to happen, or at least what has happened since that feature was first implemented months ago, is that the slave is supposed to hold a pose after the 5-6 second grope animation. They hold this pose via the same mechanic that they hold the "let's see how much you're worth" pose, meaning they can be punished for canceling it and their chance to do so is based on pose training. That's been the way it's always worked. 

 

All that being said, it's possible they no longer do that, since it was a buggy feature to begin with. I can't say, but I didn't see that in any changelogs. Either way my point in this entire thing is that HSH posing is different from PAH/DoM posing, so you should test both before reporting bugs. Because what brought me to comment in the first place was:

 

1. I don't think "pose for me pretty" actually is the intended, maybe it is, but if it is it's the #2 option. 

2. If they work the way I remember, then body inspections should generate that reason, and it's not a bug.

 

And what I meant is that the intended vehicle for posing is the "let's see how much you're worth" because that's the DoM-created posing mechanism, body inspections always are (were?) too.

 

I'm curious then, do slaves stop posing on their own through the "Pose for me, pretty" dialogue or do they hold it forever? Because that will really be the way to determine everything else.

 

Keep cool! Or Santa/Baby-Jesus/Lan-Khoong/Holiday-Armadillo/Los-Reyes/Jul Tomten/Père-Noël/Ded Moroz/... won't bring you any nice slave this year. Only falmers...

 

"Pose for me, pretty" is HSH dialogue. It's integrated in DoM posing system but it's definitely not perfect. I would prefer to be able to ask a slave to dance, hold a torch, hold a food/drink tray, pose sexy or just pose like a statue. Then you might get a different outcome depending on the slave training level. Like a slave dancing badly or spilling drinks...

 

That's on my todo list.

 

 

 

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TrollAutokill

TrollAutokill

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18 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

All of these notes come from my long playthrough that was upgraded to 2.1.7 during play.

 

  • I don't know what the current state of this is supposed to be, but slaves are still being evaluated for combat while they're bound or posing during the engagement.  I know you mentioned a while ago adding a check for whether the slave's movement is locked, but if you went through with that, it doesn't seem to have worked.  That solution would certainly be an improvement, but I still maintain the ideal solution would be to check whether the slave dealt any damage during the engagement—of course, if that's possible to do mechanically.  

Next version will exclude tied slaves. Checking damage would be too much script heavy.

18 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

  • The "good horny pet" reason often immediately overwrites the "good fucktoy" reason after sex if the slave doesn't cum.  I'm pretty sure "good fucktoy" is the better training opportunity, right?  So this would be undesirable behaviour.  Maybe "good fucktoy" needs to be classed as a major reason?

"good fucktoy" means you had sex with the slave. "good horny pet" means the slave was aroused (certainly during sex in this case) and gives more bonus.

18 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

  • I'm not sure what's going on here exactly, but something is up with "in love"/"loyal" status.  Often, it... doesn't take... the first time.  The slave will fall in love or become loyal, and then at some point revert to hating her mistress, then if she falls in love a second time, it seems to be permanent.  

As said by InsanityFactor, this part of the process.

18 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

  • Language issues:

    • "[Slave] can notcannot hide her arousal"

    • "[Slave] shivers as you approach your handyour hand approaches"

    • "I am spoiled, I was raped by another woman, noone will want me now." → Better:  "I'm tarnished.  I was raped by another woman.  No one will ever want me now." → Maybe better still: "I can't believe I was raped by another woman.  I'm so tarnished now.  How will anyone ever love me after this?"

      • Also, this is currently playing for slaves that have only ever had consensual sex.  Not sure if this might be related to the ongoing problems with consensual sex triggering punishment notifications, or if this is a separate issue.  

      • How about an additional variant that plays for slaves whose virginity you took—but not after they've fallen in love: "I can't believe I was deflowered by another woman.  I'm so tarnished now.  How will anyone ever love me after this?"

    • "You can force me but you will never sublmit me!" → Better: "You can force me, but I will never submit to you!" → Maybe better still: "You can take me by force, but I will never give myself to you willingly!"

    • "I... I had sex with a girl... I am wasted."  I don't know if this is just triggering at the wrong time, or if it's a bad calque, perhaps?  "Wasted" is a euphemism for drunk, but this slave has never had alcohol.

    • Second-person (re: "you") orgasm message is playing when slaves are having sex with NPCs (HSH follower settings, AYGAS whores, etc.)

I put that on the typo list.

 

The virginity comments are based on mood. When they are angry they will consider even "consensual" sex as rape, which is how it should be. But you don't need to worry, once your slave will be "inlove" they will start commenting positively about past events, "consensual" or not. This is part of the denial happening with the falling in love process.

 

18 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

  • I don't really understand how the new "punish for posture" mechanic is supposed to work.  I'll let you clarify what you're intending before I say too much, but I can note a few things that seem pretty clearly bugs/oversights:

    • I don't know if it has any training effect, but you can clear this reason with scolds, which doesn't seem to align with my understanding of the design goal.

    • This "punish for posture" reason is being generated by other mechanics than just the intended "Pose for me, pretty!" like body inspections.

    • An unused "punish for posture" reason will remain after you release the slave from her pose; this doesn't seem to match my understanding of how it's supposed to be used.

Scolding for posture is part of most BDSM games. It means the slave is trying hard but it is not good enough for you. 

 

18 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

  • Slaves often decide not to cooperate with body inspection mid-animation, so the butt slap animation never plays.  The PC continues the inspection animation without the slave.  This is also generating a "didnt_pose" reason, which I'm not sure is intended?  I don't know exactly what's supposed to happen or exactly what's going on, but it seems like those two things aren't fully aligned... The "[Slave] waits" notification plays, but the slave doesn't actually enter a waiting state—she remains in a following state.  

    • I finally got the "[Slave] won't let you touch her" response to "body inspection" for the first time (probably because I have traditionally not messed inspection early in the training of new slaves).  It generated a not_respectful punishment reason for respect training.  That doesn't seem right...

When slaves accept the inspection they go into pose mode. But then they can change their mind and decide not to. Will be able to change that in the future when slaves will remember their pose in their faction rank (this is how it was supposed to be in the first version of PAH I believe, but it got dropped somehow).

 

"not_respectful" was set as default here. What do you propose instead?

 

18 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

  • Slave can "didnt_listen" when you comfort with sex, and then the sex animation plays anyway.  And then, since consensual sex is being treated as punishment, you "punish with sex for didnt_listen".  Not sure exactly what's meant to be happening here, but I'm pretty sure that isn't it.  I guess either the slave shouldn't be able to not listen, or the animation shouldn't play if they don't listen.  

You proposed sex, the slave didn't listen so this is no more "consensual", hence the rape for the "didnt_listen" reason.

 

I guess we could let the player decide if and how they want to ask on this behavior. The main problem here is the animation is started by the dialogue and not in the DoM script. I'll put that in the maybe todo list.

 

 

18 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

  • New idea: Slaves at high arousal might spontaneously start touching themselves, which can be punished for submission (and sex?) training.  -> Bonus points if you can give or deny them permission to touch themselves (a la "Keep your mouth shut" and similar features).  

 

This won't come soon. The way it is done now is DoM takes care of the physical arousal created by rubbing ones genitals with whatever, and SLA takes care of the psychological arousal occurring when an NPC participates in sexual intercourse or sees a sex scene, or sees naked actors.

 

I personally uses SLA and having actors starting to masturbates unexpectedly is part of the fun.

 

Of course, this is not totally satisfactory because SLA doesn't care about moods and personality. Since I don't have time to implement the SLA-kind-of-arousal in DoM, this feature is not going to be implemented soon. Same for making SLA aware of DoM, but there is more hope with that route.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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pinky6225

pinky6225

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Minor issue i've noticed, when coming out of a sexlab animation unless you move away very quickly the slave will repeat the collision dialogue (sorry for being in your way) over and over, most noticable when they are tied and your only half paying attention to the game (as your pretending to work :) )

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TrollAutokill

TrollAutokill

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3 hours ago, pinky6225 said:

Minor issue i've noticed, when coming out of a sexlab animation unless you move away very quickly the slave will repeat the collision dialogue (sorry for being in your way) over and over, most noticable when they are tied and your only half paying attention to the game (as your pretending to work :) )

Well this dialogue is handled by Skyrim collision mechanism. It will be hard to change, I could put a global variable though, but I owuld need to create a script just for that...

 

I put it in the maybe todo list.

Edited by TrollAutokill
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pinky6225

pinky6225

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Posted
1 minute ago, TrollAutokill said:

Well this dialogue is handled by Skyrim collision mechanism. It will be hard to change...

 

Ah i was thinking maybe a delay between them saying it if it was coming from DoM so they only repeat like every 3 seconds or something but if it can't be changed its not a big deal

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TrollAutokill

TrollAutokill

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3 hours ago, bnub345 said:

The same thing happens with the "Get out of my face" line. It is default Skyrim behavior when you're too close to an NPC. Hard to change and maybe out of the scope of the mod, idk.

These dialogues are DoM's and are dependent on training/mood, they just replace standard Skyrim dialogue for collision.

 

I'll try something.

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Antiope_Apollonia

Antiope_Apollonia

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14 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Keep cool! Or Santa/Baby-Jesus/Lan-Khoong/Holiday-Armadillo/Los-Reyes/Jul Tomten/Père-Noël/Ded Moroz/... won't bring you any nice slave this year. Only falmers...

Lol, we cool—InsanityFactor is my homie. :D But... the "Holiday Armadillo"? O_o St. Nick brought me a nice scented candle today!

  

14 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

"Pose for me, pretty" is HSH dialogue. It's integrated in DoM posing system but it's definitely not perfect.

It's pretty indistinguishable from native DoM features like the price check for the most part.  The only thing it doesn't do is give the slave a chance to refuse the order outright—instead of "cooperating" only to immediately stop posing—with the associated did/didn't cooperate dialogues, but that isn't a big deal.  

 

14 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

I would prefer to be able to ask a slave to dance, hold a torch, hold a food/drink tray, pose sexy or just pose like a statue. Then you might get a different outcome depending on the slave training level. Like a slave dancing badly or spilling drinks...

That could be cool.  I quite like the "Pose for me, pretty!" feature as-is, and I use it pretty often just as a fun gameplay/RP feature.  But there is definitely the possibility to improve on it, so if you want to tackle that with a native DoM feature that'd be easier to integrate, I'm all for it.  Holding drinks trays is one obvious omission from the current list—a surprising omission, too, since I think AYGAS slaves can hold drinks trays for their owners.  Another common B&D training trope that you could do is balancing books on the head.  Dancing badly or spilling drinks with poor training would be a really cool feature, but that sounds to me like it'd be really hard to do—you'd certainly know better than me, though.  

 

If it helps planning, I can tell you that, from the current "Pose for me, pretty!" options, I frequently use:

  • "Stand there" (the classic slave kneeling pose)
  • Dances, especially the "Dance, show off your body!" one.  The dance from SLTR that's just called "Sexy" would be a welcome option, too.
  • I really want to like "Relax, but stay here", but it's just a little too hyperactive—my slaves aren't allowed amphetamines! Even just slowing down the animation would help.  
  • Once in a while, I use the "Hold these flowers", but if they could hold drinks, I don't think I'd ever really have a use for this anymore.  
13 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

"good fucktoy" means you had sex with the slave. "good horny pet" means the slave was aroused (certainly during sex in this case) and gives more bonus.

That seems weird to me in terms of balance, but I guess that's probably because I'm in the minority of folks who never rape slaves.  The way I play, it seems much easier to generate "horny pet" reasons than "fucktoy" reasons, but I suppose people who are willing to rape their slaves might find "horny pet" reasons to be the more scarce.  At any rate, as long as the better reason is getting priority, it's not a big deal.  

 

13 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

Scolding for posture is part of most BDSM games. It means the slave is trying hard but it is not good enough for you. 

So, just to be clear, scolding does actually work for training with the "punish for posture" reason, and that is in fact intended, right?  That seems weird with the current implementation where posing is a binary cooperate/not cooperate.  If you manage to implement the ideas discussed above for an expanded pose feature in DoM where slaves can pose but do so badly, then it'd make more sense for sure.  But if scolding for this reason is intended to work, we can always use a little imagination in the mean time. 

 

13 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

When slaves accept the inspection they go into pose mode. But then they can change their mind and decide not to. Will be able to change that in the future when slaves will remember their pose in their faction rank (this is how it was supposed to be in the first version of PAH I believe, but it got dropped somehow).

Well it looks really weird the way it works currently, with the PC inspecting air for several seconds after the slave decides to not cooperate.  Can you pull the PC out of the animation at the same time as the slave?  That'd be a big improvement.  

 

13 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

"not_respectful" was set as default here. What do you propose instead?

I would think it'd be good to have something like an "uncooperative" or "didnt_cooperate" reason in your toolkit in general, which would make sense to use here.  I'd think the most logical training would be submission—maybe a bit of resignation, too? dunno—which would also be better from a balance perspective I think.  (I don't know if maybe it's just because of my soft touch approach, but I find that, for slaves who don't have highly submissive personalities such that submission training comes naturally as you break them from escaping, I don't have many opportunities to improve submission training.)

 

13 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

You proposed sex, the slave didn't listen so this is no more "consensual", hence the rape for the "didnt_listen" reason.

Just to clarify, it isn't technically being counted as rape, although it might should be given that the slave refused consent.  It's playing the same notifications that it would if the slave had consented: "Comforting with sex", "Having some fun", and "Punishing with sex" (not "punishing with rape").

 

13 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

I guess we could let the player decide if and how they want to ask on this behavior. The main problem here is the animation is started by the dialogue and not in the DoM script. I'll put that in the maybe todo list.

I would definitely really like to be able to make that decision.  You could use the same basic approach taken by the "Ok slave... I'm gonna fuck you" dialogue, where the first dialogue triggers the consent check, and then that triggers a second dialogue depending on the outcome of said consent check.  

 

13 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

This won't come soon.

Pity.  I was really excited by that idea.  I didn't realise how complicated your arousal mechanics are on the back end.  

 

13 hours ago, TrollAutokill said:

I personally uses SLA and having actors starting to masturbates unexpectedly is part of the fun.

 

Of course, this is not totally satisfactory because SLA doesn't care about moods and personality. Since I don't have time to implement the SLA-kind-of-arousal in DoM, this feature is not going to be implemented soon. Same for making SLA aware of DoM, but there is more hope with that route.

SLA as in SexLab Aroused?  How do you get SLA to cause random masturbation?  The MCM is pretty opaque, so maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any options for that with SLAX.  That might be better than nothing, but at any rate, it still wouldn't be nearly as cool as my idea (although I'm obviously biased), because it wouldn't have the training application or the good slave behaviour RP value. 

 

Well, if you have a flash of inspiration for how this could work, it'd be a lot of fun, but if there's no good way to implement it, then fair enough—sometimes that's how the cookie crumbles.

 

  

8 hours ago, pinky6225 said:

 

Ah i was thinking maybe a delay between them saying it if it was coming from DoM so they only repeat like every 3 seconds or something but if it can't be changed its not a big deal

I was going to suggest the same thing.  I've only recently been noticing the really rapid spam of these messages myself like you describe.  

Edited by Antiope_Appolonia
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InsanityFactor

InsanityFactor

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Posted
2 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Lol, we cool—InsanityFactor is my homie. :D But... the "Holiday Armadillo"? O_o St. Nick brought me a nice scented candle today!

Yeah it's ok Troll, that's just how we talk to each other ;) 

 

2 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:
  • "Stand there" (the classic slave kneeling pose)
  • Dances, especially the "Dance, show off your body!" one.  The dance from SLTR that's just called "Sexy" would be a welcome option, too.
  • I really want to like "Relax, but stay here", but it's just a little too hyperactive—my slaves aren't allowed amphetamines! Even just slowing down the animation would help.  
  • Once in a while, I use the "Hold these flowers", but if they could hold drinks, I don't think I'd ever really have a use for this anymore.  

There's also the one where they crouch down and form a seat for you to sit on, that one is one of my favorites, but it's on the higher end of the unlockable poses.

 

2 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

Well it looks really weird the way it works currently, with the PC inspecting air for several seconds after the slave decides to not cooperate.  Can you pull the PC out of the animation at the same time as the slave?  That'd be a big improvement.  

Or it could just be so that the slave can't refuse after initial acceptance until after the player stops checking them, that could stop the weirdness too.

 

2 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I would think it'd be good to have something like an "uncooperative" or "didnt_cooperate" reason in your toolkit in general, which would make sense to use here.  I'd think the most logical training would be submission—maybe a bit of resignation, too? dunno—which would also be better from a balance perspective I think.  (I don't know if maybe it's just because of my soft touch approach, but I find that, for slaves who don't have highly submissive personalities such that submission training comes naturally as you break them from escaping, I don't have many opportunities to improve submission training.)

Something similar already exists with the "did_not_wait" reason, so maybe an adaption of that function could fit this role, since that could be reiterated as 'not cooperating'. They also refuse to follow sometimes but I don't know if that's categorized as a punishment reason by DoM.

 

I see submission training increase from sex acts primarily, but mostly just passively from general punishments. Idk, for soft touch tactics I'm surprised you don't see a satisfactory increase from just fucking them, that's been my experience. Are you going even softer than that?

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Antiope_Apollonia

Antiope_Apollonia

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45 minutes ago, InsanityFactor said:

There's also the one where they crouch down and form a seat for you to sit on, that one is one of my favorites, but it's on the higher end of the unlockable poses.

This one?

Spoiler

ScreenShot38.png.ad78bded825d563d6f56b3d49629e9f7.png

This is only the third option unlocked.  I wouldn't say that looks much like a seat, but that would be a cool idea.  Crouching down on knees and elbows with her back arched like an ottoman would be a neat pose option, even if it would probably be impossible to actually make it interactable.

 

45 minutes ago, InsanityFactor said:

They also refuse to follow sometimes but I don't know if that's categorized as a punishment reason by DoM.

Sadly, it isn't.  We talked about that some pages ago, and I think Troll said the problem was that PAHE isn't producing a reason, and it'd have to be fixed on the PAHE side.  

 

54 minutes ago, InsanityFactor said:

I see submission training increase from sex acts primarily, but mostly just passively from general punishments. Idk, for soft touch tactics I'm surprised you don't see a satisfactory increase from just fucking them, that's been my experience. Are you going even softer than that?

I have plenty of sex with slaves, but only consensually—I practically never rape.  But sex is a lot more time consuming than other training acts; when you've got a whole harem following you, it's hard to spam sex with all of them.  

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DocClox

DocClox

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Posted

I've got a couple of slaves that never stop trying to run away. I trained one to 100% submission and resignation, but I can't do much else because all I ever get is the trying to run away dialogue.

 

In both cases I have leashing collars on them, so they can't actually run away. But I also can't take the collars off to see if that helps. (I might try console commands later). And I can't get a personality dump because all she ever talks about is trying to run away.

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InsanityFactor

InsanityFactor

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Posted
2 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

This one?

No there's one where you can literally sit on them, I think the dialogue says something about being "a seat" or some such terminology. It's pretty far down though if I remember right, it's been a while since I've used it. Try it with a slave at like 100 pose training and it should be there.

 

2 hours ago, Antiope_Appolonia said:

I have plenty of sex with slaves, but only consensually—I practically never rape.  But sex is a lot more time consuming than other training acts; when you've got a whole harem following you, it's hard to spam sex with all of them.  

Yeah true, but if we're talking about raising submission I think that's the most effective way. I remember having a couple slaves where I never had sex with them at all and it was hard to get much higher than 50, maybe there's some other means I'm not aware of.

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