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35 minutes ago, nilead said:

 Went for another go with this mod after the update.

Works as intended until i quit, at that point bug with training devices remaining in my inventory reoccured. After vendoring them and walking around for a while, got this eror message. Reasonably sure its the same as the first time.

ScreenShot1.png.ca2f714eb0aef2eca8754a450bee08b1.png

 

 

Thanks for the report.

 

First, I am sorry, because I still have no idea why the training gear remained in your inventory. That really should not happen. (I have not been able to reproduce at all, so I won't be able to fix it any time soon.)

 

Second, the asserting = 6 actual = 0 is a completely separate bug. It is actually quite severe. Therefore, I will try to fix it ASAP. For the time being, you can simply go to MCM and terminate the training quest again. (This will not break the save.) Sorry for the inconveniences.

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21 minutes ago, Rin Tepis said:

 

Thanks for the report.

 

First, I am sorry, because I still have no idea why the training gear remained in your inventory. That really should not happen. (I have not been able to reproduce at all, so I won't be able to fix it any time soon.)

 

Second, the asserting = 6 actual = 0 is a completely separate bug. It is actually quite severe. Therefore, I will try to fix it ASAP. For the time being, you can simply go to MCM and terminate the training quest again. (This will not break the save.) Sorry for the inconveniences.

 Well, on the first issue -odds are something in my build just refuses to play nice with heatrise.

Or even with DD framework in general, its practicly was a resource esp in this build, never used untill your mod came around. 

Ill drop load order as attachment here, so in odd case someone runs into the same issue it will be possible to spot the source of this problem by cross-reference.

 As i said before - i did find your mod quite enjoyable. Best of luck with polishing and expanding it.

LoadOrder.txt

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I think it would be a good idea to consider alternative ways to get the plugs unlocked besides the training quest.

Looting them and equipping it themselves or getting them put on the player being some ways to unlock them.

 

You could technically do something like the DCL cursed collar event the triggers if you loot he collar even.

There are some fun ways to do it.

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17 hours ago, nilead said:

 Well, on the first issue -odds are something in my build just refuses to play nice with heatrise.

Or even with DD framework in general, its practicly was a resource esp in this build, never used untill your mod came around. 

Ill drop load order as attachment here, so in odd case someone runs into the same issue it will be possible to spot the source of this problem by cross-reference.

 As i said before - i did find your mod quite enjoyable. Best of luck with polishing and expanding it.

LoadOrder.txt 8.16 kB · 2 downloads

 

Thanks. I will make a mental note.

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I am running into a problem in SE wear the training belt is constantly trying to equip itself on the player. like when I try to equip it normally it just keeps spamming the dialog for the belt. Same thing happens when It is equipped via the quest. I open my inventory click the belt or plugs, and the same dialog windows just endlessly pops up. Only way to "stop it" is by escaping the inventory.

 

I have the latest versions of all the dependencies and It doesn't look like there are any conflicts in MO.

 

Please help :/

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4 hours ago, iamwookie said:

I think it would be a good idea to consider alternative ways to get the plugs unlocked besides the training quest.

Looting them and equipping it themselves or getting them put on the player being some ways to unlock them.

 

You could technically do something like the DCL cursed collar event the triggers if you loot he collar even.

There are some fun ways to do it.

 

On the one hand, I want to make collecting plugs difficult and interesting (so it provides a stronger incentive to do the training). If you just want to use them without doing the quest, you can always turn off locked plugs disappearing after unequipping in MCM and get them using the console.

 

On the other hand, it is actually quite challenging to implement DCL style traps. I don't know if I can do it without creating some very complicated scripts.

 

For these reasons, I will probably stick to letting training be the only way of unlocking the plugs. Thank you for the suggestions regardless.

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12 minutes ago, Oscar19 said:

I am running into a problem in SE wear the training belt is constantly trying to equip itself on the player. like when I try to equip it normally it just keeps spamming the dialog for the belt. Same thing happens when It is equipped via the quest. I open my inventory click the belt or plugs, and the same dialog windows just endlessly pops up. Only way to "stop it" is by escaping the inventory.

 

I have the latest versions of all the dependencies and It doesn't look like there are any conflicts in MO.

 

Please help :/

 

Hmm... From what you described, it seems that you have obtained the belt via commands (or other mods), and tried to equip it yourself before doing the quest? If that is the case, you might need to load an earlier save and only use the quest to get the belt. If the my code works correctly, you should never have the belt in your inventory unequipped.

 

If that is not the case, please let me know.

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5 hours ago, Rin Tepis said:

 

Hmm... From what you described, it seems that you have obtained the belt via commands (or other mods), and tried to equip it yourself before doing the quest? If that is the case, you might need to load an earlier save and only use the quest to get the belt. If the my code works correctly, you should never have the belt in your inventory unequipped.

 

If that is not the case, please let me know.

 

Started a fresh game and started the quest normally, same result. I also tried disabling Frost Fall to see if that may have been what was causing it. No change. It only seems to happen when I click the belt. The plugs are fine.

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7 minutes ago, Oscar19 said:

 

Started a fresh game and started the quest normally, same result. I also tried disabling Frost Fall to see if that may have been what was causing it. No change. It only seems to happen when I click the belt. The plugs are fine.

 

Which message are you getting spammed by? Also, what version of DD are you using? The belt appears to be equipped normally right?

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25 minutes ago, Oscar19 said:

 

Devious devices 5.0. See for yourself.

 

 

2021-01-27 02-33-24.mkv 33.55 MB · 1 download

 

Thank you for the screen recording. That is indeed weird. I am not sure if this is the cause, but did you save, exit to the menu, and load the save to initialize Devious Device after SexLab is installed (initialized)?

 

I am asking because it appears that there are SexLab installation messages popping up on the top left corner. As far as I know, you need to reload the game once the SexLab is installed (initialized) for DD to load. Again, I am not sure if this is the cause of this problem. However, can you try that first? Please let me know it did anything. Thanks in advance.

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Okay, loaded back in, sat around for a few second and made sure everything started properly, reloaded the save and did the same thing. Same result. But I was wrong, the plugs do the same thing as the belt. And just to be safe I tried equipping a belt and plug from cursed loot just to see if maybe this was a SkyUI or other UI bug. No luck, cursed loot gear works perfectly fine.

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4 minutes ago, Oscar19 said:

Okay, loaded back in, sat around for a few second and made sure everything started properly, reloaded the save and did the same thing. Same result. But I was wrong, the plugs do the same thing as the belt. And just to be safe I tried equipping a belt and plug from cursed loot just to see if maybe this was a SkyUI or other UI bug. No luck, cursed loot gear works perfectly fine.

 

Sigh... I have no idea then. I have added this to the bug tracker. However, since I cannot reproduce it (obviously), I don't think I will be able to fix this any time soon. Therefore, please let me know if you figured out anything that might caused the problem.

 

P.S. By the way, can you try other plugs from DHr? For example, maybe try the arctic one? My current suspicion is that something is broken with quest item handling, since it seems that quest items and non-quest items use vastly different code path for handling things. The training gear from DHr are all quest items while other plugs are not. So if the other plugs do not have the same problem, it has to be something wrong with the quest item.

 

P.P.S. I am sure you already knew this, but just in case you don't, you can get the arctic plug by running console command help arctic, find the id of the plug, and do run command player.additem id 1

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4 minutes ago, TheLoverLabCriminal said:

how many % resist it give per lvl ?

 

By default, 1%. You can adjust it in the MCM menu under the Advanced tab.

 

You can also view the current resistance given by DHr in active magic effects.

 

Higher temperature tolerance skills will also allow you to wear more extreme temperature controlled plugs.

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5 minutes ago, Rin Tepis said:

 

Sigh... I have no idea then. I have added this to the bug tracker. However, since I cannot reproduce it (obviously), I don't think I will be able to fix this any time soon. Therefore, please let me know if you figured out anything that might caused the problem.

 

P.S. By the way, can you try other plugs from DHr? For example, maybe try the arctic one? My current suspicion is that something is broken with quest item handling, since it seems that quest items and non-quest items use vastly different code path for handling things. The training gear from DHr are all quest items while other plugs are not. So if the other plugs do not have the same problem, it has to be something wrong with the quest item.

 

P.P.S. I am sure you already knew this, but just in case you don't, you can get the arctic plug by running console command help arctic, find the id of the plug, and do run command player.additem id 1

 

That's unfortunate, I'll see what I can do to debug it. I'll post the answer here if I can find it.

I did boot up again and try what you asked. A normal belt with non quest heat plugs worked perfectly fine. So it may very well be a quest bug :/

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On 1/24/2021 at 11:59 PM, Rin Tepis said:

I assume the "people" you mentioned includes yourself. Since forced chastity belts is literally the core of my fetishes, can I ask why are you uncomfortable with them? Is it you don't like chastity belts or you don't like being forced to wear them? Or something else maybe?

 

Currently, approximately half of the training status is stored within the chastity belt item, so it is not really possible to add an option to remove the chastity belt from the quest. However, if the reason you don't like them is just you don't like chastity belts, maybe I can add an "alternative chastity belt" mode, which will hide the belt and rename the item in the inventory to something else ("Arcadia's Magical Seal" maybe?).

 

I can also add an option in the MCM which will disable the 5 checkups requirement, so you can stop the training at any point as long as all the timed trials have been completed.

 

That assumption is correct, I guess I should've wrote "people like me" or something like that. I'll try to use "I" instead of "people" where that makes sense, if doing otherwise appears dishonest. I mostly do that because I don't think that my personal opinion is worth a damn, though. Yet here it comes, as honest as I can.

 

It's not about belts. It is mostly about the catch being pure sadistic malice, yes, but it's also about lines like "Too late. Obey, or spend the rest of your life belted.", about having an apperance of an option to resist without that option actually present. Even just reading those topics in xEdit made me feel uneasy the first time.

(That was the reason I rambled about not having a fully consensual way of training. While I still stand by the point that there should be an immersive option to bail out, my personal concern was with outright torture being forced upon PC without a warning and any way to refuse.)

 

Being upfront about this kind of stuff helps - but trials being a gamble is still a turnoff. That was the reason I've suggested a middle groud option among with consensual one - where belt stays on for while, but trials are optional. (And also thoroughly described in a book - and beneficial if taken, so there's a tasty bait on a rusty hook.)

 

When devices are involved, If I'm interested, I'll take it, and I'm usually fine with most things if everything is transparent beforehand, but if I don't want something, noone should put them on my PC or force them to stay bound without giving a functioning option to object, resist or fight back (MCM checkboxes don't count.). And when playing Skyrim, I tune DD mods to act this way whenever that's possible, and avoid parts where it isn't. That's why I still haven't even tried Arcadia quest.

 

Now that I think of it, there's also another reason I don't like real-time timed trials besides them being forced in-character - once I am as a player want especially debilitating ones  to end, my only options are to go drink some tea while leaving the game running for half an hour, use MCM "safeword", or reload from a prior save - and I don't like doing any of these things.

 

About training, that's where our design philosophies diverge in the opposite directions. You prefer to keep devices as a curse that makes players seek release - while I want them to also add to gameplay while substracting from it, to be a curse that grows into a boon, something that makes me want to equip them on PC, as many as possible, all the time, and not just to take most of them off immediately because otherwise game becomes irritating or outright stops.

 

I guess I just want a fresh coat for an old game, sauced with PC being all tied up on my own terms.

 

And, unfortunately for me, gameplay is what DD sorely lacks. DD, as a bondage framework, is built in a way that provides as much ground for roleplay as it can and as little gameplay as possible for it to function - to give modders a lot of freedom in using the former and building upon the later.

But as a result, just DD gets stale in minutes. It's filled with devices that are nice to look at and sometimes interact with, but aren't interesting to actually play the game with, most being either too hindering or next to irrelevant.

 

As a gameplay element, pure DD devices are boring.

 

And here roots the issue I see with training only mitigating the debuffs - there's not much to mitigate in the first place. Most devices debuffs in DD are almost placeholders, a token debuffs that are little more than reference for those who builds upon the framework. They do nearly nothing, and a system that reduces that almost nothing to nothing, and does so at a snail speed... Doesn't sound interesting.

 

And devices that affect gameplay in a significant way can't really be slowly mitigated in any way short of effectively removing the device itself - like armbinders, blindfolds, gags and hobble skirts, and, when it comes to SexLab, belt.

 

I thought you are planning to go with "curse to boon" training approach because current core features of this mod, temperature plugs and training, give elemental resistance boost that benefits player outside of mitigating effects of any device.

(I'm interested in an alternative to DT because, while it's highly customisable and allowing beneficial training approach, training bonuses there are wildly all over the place, and even after several, admittedly unqualified, attempts on my end to cull script load it was still lobotomizing my saves.)

(Other reason I'm interested in this mod is that I had a similar thought about temperature plugs recently, but wasn't compelled enough to finally break into Papyrus.)

 

Since that's your mod, you're completely in the right to say that this is not what you want to do. I respect that, and I won't mention that I disagree with any specific decision based on the idea that training should only mitigate DD effects any further in this post. But even then I still suggest adding meaningfull debuffs to devices and just making them optional.

(I suggest avoiding severely reducing movement speed, though, since that should be limited to tightly controlled quest environments to avoid ridiculous downtimes.)

 

So. If you're only interested in "keep as curse" approach, I don't think I could be much of assistance in regards to balace decisions. Although I guess if I won't disappear at some point I'll probably try to make a "curse to boon" training addon, if you don't mind. It'll most likely just break everything, though.

 

Now, about my suggestions on training. Well, they aren't really suggestions since they are based on "curse to boon" approach, so I guess it's just me explaining the reasoning behind some of them and commenting on responses.

 

Spoiler

   

 

On 1/24/2021 at 11:59 PM, Rin Tepis said:

First, Regarding bonus leveling, I think I will implement some exponential growth. I am currently looking at 3^n. Which means taking the same trial 3 times gives you the first level of bonus, 9 times the second level, 27 times the third level, etc. The idea is that the player should not be able to go much higher than level 3. The ultimate cap can be set at, for example, level 10, which is only there to prevent someone changing the save resulting game breaking buffs. (I will still have to consider the number before I make the final call though.)

 

My suggestions were based on the idea of a separate line of progression and growth, based on DD and in parallel to vanilla skills. I thought about something like "Reach maximum in them in amount of time loosely comparable to how long it takes to reach 100 with vanilla skill.", with exceptions like "lvl 100 in belt" for extlemely long play. Yes, bonuses will be big, but I had "curse to boon" mindset. And seeing that I'm supposed to go throgh 88568 trials for lvl 10 is something I would open a .esp or .psc to reduce the total number to about 25. In Skyrim, skill cap is a sweet goal with a tasty perk attached to it, not invisible limit, and I, and I'm pretty sure that gamers in general too, like it when goalpost isn't too close, yet clearly in sight and reasonably within reach. I understand that exact meanings of "not too close", "in sight" and "within reach" are highly subjective, but that's what MCM is for.

 

On 1/24/2021 at 11:59 PM, Rin Tepis said:

Third, I feel bonus that require both the device and plugs to be equipped at the same time somewhat finicky.

 

Since temperature plugs are the main attraction, I thought it would be reasonable to make almost everything hinge on wearing them in addition to other devices. Besides, I'd like to have a reason to wear them after I'm done with resists, and to have sort of risk-reward management with strong plugs draining some resources while providing substantial benefits in other ways.

 

On 1/24/2021 at 11:59 PM, Rin Tepis said:

I didn't check the full list, but I believe you have missed the random shocks trial. Bonus for this trial can be that the player now has a chance to predict when a shock is coming and therefore try to clamp their vagina/anus, which will reduce the damage of the shocks.

 

I skipped them because I thought that gaining shock resistance in parallel to fire/frost at the same time is a sufficient benefit from that trial - besides not really having any good ideas about what they could give.

 

On 1/24/2021 at 11:59 PM, Rin Tepis said:

Regarding B, actually, I am adding vibration tolerance skills for the next version, which can be trained with any vibrating plugs. My plan is that during combat, the PC will try to hold off aroused animations/orgasms. These skills will allow the PC to last longer. (It will not affect scenarios outside combat, however.)

 

That option is mostly there because over time those interruptions become increasingly annoying, and growing resistance stat makes gives something to work for instead of opening DD MCM and moving sliders to the left being the only way.

 

On 1/24/2021 at 11:59 PM, Rin Tepis said:

That said, I actually don't know how to modify "Breath of Nchuak" or "Fire/Frost breath" without removing them, modify the base spell, and re-adding them to the player's spell list.

 

It seems like there's some sort of misunderstanding. As an example of what I meant, in the attachment is a file I made that is a bunch of copied and redirected records that results in two copies of "Visage of Mzund" that give player fire or frost breath instead of steam. It's wonky, but in exactly the same way vanilla power is, so I guess that's not the best reference.

 

On 1/24/2021 at 11:59 PM, Rin Tepis said:

I think an alternative for this is to provide speech craft bonus when wearing a gag. (If I am not wrong, DD will apply speech craft down when wearing the gag. So this can be a mitigation for that.)


It doesn't seem to reduce speech, judginh by the skill menu. Still, another problem with that approach is that speech does next to nothing (20 speech is about 7% defference in vendor prices). It sometimes feels like the whole vanilla speech skill tree is mostly there for fluff.

 

On 1/24/2021 at 11:59 PM, Rin Tepis said:

I think the idea is fine. I will also make sure speed after these modifiers do not exceed the normal walking/sprinting speed (Again, I want wearing boots is always bad, and player will want to struggle out of them).

 

My thought was to have something akin to "Ponygirl mode" from DT, that allows player to equip boots with armbinder and almost fly across the Skyrim instead of fast-traveling. I just like that part a lot.

 

On 1/24/2021 at 11:59 PM, Rin Tepis said:

A. What is frontal ward? If it is a spell, again, I am not sure if I can modify it without doing a lot of hacks.

B. The problem is that if you are wearing a chastity bra, how do you get those items out of it?

 

If I am not wrong, DD applies an archery debuff when wearing a chastity bra. Maybe I can try to reduce it?

 

A) I was thinking about something akin to "Spellbreaker". I doubt that any hacks are needed besides what is already in vanilla game.

B) There's magical milker inside.

C) Or add (Level*RelevantPlugTiers) to arrow damage. Was on my mind the whole time, but overall archery being considered OP and any justification being a big stretch, I've omitted that.

 

And archery skill level reduction isn't actually that impactful, 10 archery is 5% of bow damage, and it's immediately overshadowed by the first perk in the tree. Bra also drops Block, One-handed and Two-handed by 5, and those are also aren't impactful.

 

On 1/24/2021 at 11:59 PM, Rin Tepis said:

This is tricky, because AFAIK, corsets don't apply negative effects by themselves. (Maybe I can actually go DT and start to apply negative effects of my own by default, however, that will make my quests somewhat mandatory, and I don't want to do that.)

 

DD corsets occasionally drain stamina bar.

 

Interesting fact, IRL historical corsets (and, judging by their looks, DD corsets) were made to fit, not squeeze. Their first purpose was basically a bra (that part DD corset lacks), and second one was reduction of stress (and subsequently, pain) that core (specifically, stomach and lower back) muscles receive from numerous daily activities, and biggest problem was that if corset is worn for prolonged periods of time those muscles weaken from underuse, and training them back is rather unpleasant process. There were many nasty things related to certain kinds of corsets, but majority of them weren't malicious in the slightest.

 

That's loosely the background for the idea of gaining carry weight from corset training - PC learns to use it to ease her burdens. Also, ponygirl mode.

 

   

 

On 1/24/2021 at 11:59 PM, Rin Tepis said:

However, since the semester has started, it will take a while before I can implement all of these.

 

Good luck over there.

FireFrostBreath.esl

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