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KoolHndLuke

Toxic Masculinity and Men's Shame

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On 11/23/2020 at 6:25 AM, Myst42 said:

Men should be allowed to be masculine and women should be allowed to be feminine. It's the natural order of things.

 

On 11/23/2020 at 7:45 AM, wokking56 said:

Using the term "Toxic Masculinity" is just socially [accepted] man bashing. Call out a [woman] for doing some stupid crap and you are "sexist". Point out the fact that a gay person made a simple mistake and you are "homophobic". Heaven forbid you mention a person of color did something wrong and now you are "racist". Show that a man was being an idiot, oh that's okay it's just his toxic masculinity. People seem to forget that men and women are physiologically and psychologically completely different beings. So expecting one to act/react the same as the other is ridiculous. 

^^^^^This. Sadly, the site won't let me give your posts (both of them) more than one like. :classic_heart: 💕 💋

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16 hours ago, xgtbkw said:

I keep hearing about alphabet community this and alphabet community that.

 

Could anyone explain why the gay community, according to this logic, is the only community that can't possibly have been overtaken by wokeism, but is instead wokeism itself?

 

In short: #notallgaypeople

 

Isn't self-proclaimed allyship the main issue in most circumstances, whichever community?

 

This misunderstanding is rapidly turning into #gaypeoplemostaffected (or #insertminorityheremostaffected), setting us back again a couple of decades.

 

Personally, I'd love to see some pruning of these toxic, often heavily monetized fan-bases, starting with people calling themselves LGBTA who aren't asexual.

It's mostly about people that wear their sexual identity as a badge because they have no other defining features except being terminally online, I guess. And grifters, of course, those are always around to fleece their pay piggies.

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19 hours ago, AKM said:

It's funny, I tried to explain some of these ideas to someone who, by her own admission (paraphrase) "I was lucky I didn't end up with any STDs (she was extremely promiscuous in her younger years)", and this was exactly her take - before I had time to clearly explain where I stood on women. 

 

"So, what?  Women aren't allowed to make their own decisions? [heavy sarcasm tone, of course]" 

 

Have you SEEN the decisions you've made?

One question has jack shit to do with the other.

I can understand how pretending it does might have upset her.

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On 11/22/2020 at 5:37 PM, nIn nIn nIn said:

Toxic masculinity?

 

Read - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_masculinity#:~:text=Toxic masculinity is thus defined,other emotions such as anger.

 

Men can be masculine without being toxic. Real men cry when someone they love dies or gets hurt. Real men can wear a pink shirt and it doesn't mean anything (ie - not gay) and many etceteras can be added to that very short list of just 2 examples.

If you can't be a "real man" without putting other men down who are "less" (in your eyes alone) then you are a toxic.

That has nothing to do with being "Toxic Masculinity".. That implies that masculinity is toxic by nature...

When I was growing up..putting down other men that are less (in your eyes) meant you were an "ASSHOLE", "JERK", "Dick",  and other names.  The same went for women that acted that way. Has nothing to do with gender or anything to do with masculinity or femininity.  I wish everybody would just stop with the gender assigning concepts and other bullshit. An Asshole is an asshole.. pure and simple. 

 

That bullshit term came out when feminism started to gain traction. Gee... wonder why there isn't any "Toxic Feminism"?  I believe you can guess why. This is the time that other terms came out to describe bad things with male gendered implications.

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Btw, I never enounter buzzwords like toxic masculinity or rape culture outside of woke leftist opinion pieces and the internet.

Okay, rape culture might have been mentioned a few times during the Me Too scandals but the only thing I can remember about that is that some feminists here in Germany used it to make everybody hate them. There was an outrageous case of double standard where they accused some FDP politician of being too sleazy or something because he dared to try to hit on a woman in a bar despite not being attractive himself.

Basically everybody here shut them down immediately. Other than that not much happened.

 

So I don't really see the end of civilization or the descend into madness that some MGTOW guys and man's right activists are seeing, just the internet being the usual dumpster fire, plus random noise in the news cycle and a lot of self absorbed assholes that highjack every cause they can find for their own benefit.

 

There are too many singles today though, both male and female. People can't compromise anymore.

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19 minutes ago, RitualClarity said:

Gee... wonder why there isn't any "Toxic Feminism"?

There is, it's called 3rd wave feminism. But hey the elites and the media have an agenda so it's not seen as "toxic" but instead "empowering & stunning". But it is amusing though, to see so many people pretend that insecurity based overcompensation is somehow gender exclusive. Oh no women totally are incapable of bullying and harassing other women they see as less, it's just the men who do it because of Patriarchy™ and Masculinity®. Great.

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7 minutes ago, Bazinga said:

Btw, I never enounter buzzwords like toxic masculinity or rape culture outside of woke leftist opinion pieces and the internet.

True for the most part, common people don't tend to embellish themselves with such stupidity. But you'd be surprised though, it's not as uncommon as you think either.

 

11 minutes ago, Bazinga said:

So I don't really see the end of civilization or the descend into madness that some MGTOW guys...

Good, groups like that are complete retardation grift LARP at this point and best left alone. Nothing good ever comes out of it.

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Reminds of a quote

 

“There are very few jobs that actually require a penis or vagina. All other jobs should be open to everybody.” -- Florynce Kennedy

 

By the same token, there are very few bad behaviors that require a penis or vagina. All others should apply to all genders equally.

 

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3 hours ago, Bazinga said:

Btw, I never enounter buzzwords like toxic masculinity or rape culture outside of woke leftist opinion pieces and the internet.

Okay, rape culture might have been mentioned a few times during the Me Too scandals but the only thing I can remember about that is that some feminists here in Germany used it to make everybody hate them. There was an outrageous case of double standard where they accused some FDP politician of being too sleazy or something because he dared to try to hit on a woman in a bar despite not being attractive himself.

Basically everybody here shut them down immediately. Other than that not much happened.

 

So I don't really see the end of civilization or the descend into madness that some MGTOW guys and man's right activists are seeing, just the internet being the usual dumpster fire, plus random noise in the news cycle and a lot of self absorbed assholes that highjack every cause they can find for their own benefit.

 

There are too many singles today though, both male and female. People can't compromise anymore.

You don't need a lot of them, you just need them to be in power. Currently it's mostly an anglo thing but people DO get fired, censored and silenced if they don't already have fame and money on their side and this whole spiel is heavily pushed by Silicon Valley, who are well on their way to control all public communication. If you get blacklisted by Amazon, Facebook, Twitter, Apple and Google you might as well not exist. The UK police for example have a few people that monitor twitter for thought crime, which gets listed under the 'Crime: Non Crime' category if you make a comment about anything that might be perceived as wrong. They'll even call you and ask if you're aware that you need to check your thinking.

 

I do not think that Big Tech is interested in actual social justice, though. There was a leaked document from Amazon that describes hat a high ethnic diversity among workers prevents unionization efforts, which makes sense because you divide one group (workers) into virtually infinite groups based on skin color, background, gender, sex, sexual orientation. Good luck trying to find common ground with a fellow worker when you can't say anything to each other because someone might feel offended and call HR on you.

 

Social isolation is another point that's very profitable for the likes of Google, because that way you'll spend more time online and they need tremendous amounts of data to feed their algorithms which they don't get if people are out and socialize. They also love China because the chinese model allows for things to get done without any backlash, while democratic systems tend to be slow when it comes to deciding things.

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6 hours ago, Mr. Otaku said:

There is, it's called 3rd wave feminism. But hey the elites and the media have an agenda so it's not seen as "toxic" but instead "empowering & stunning". But it is amusing though, to see so many people pretend that insecurity based overcompensation is somehow gender exclusive. Oh no women totally are incapable of bullying and harassing other women they see as less, it's just the men who do it because of Patriarchy™ and Masculinity®. Great.

women don't only bully and harass other women they see as less. They also will bully males as well.  Same for males. Their bulling isn't exclusive to males they see as less. Goes to the point.. Assholes... no need to add any new wave gender derogatory terms ..

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6 hours ago, Mr. Otaku said:

 

 

Good, groups like that are complete retardation grift LARP at this point and best left alone. Nothing good ever comes out of it.

Fortunately groups  like this seem to be dying off, however, not fast enough for me.

TBH, this shit happens time and time again in one form or another.  years ago nobody was allowed to be offended (Andrew Dice Clay anyone) and people actually laughed at jokes and stereotypes. Now they want to grab pitch forks for someone making a mistake. Soon it will revolve back around to some form of the above. 

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6 hours ago, Bazinga said:

I never enounter buzzwords

 

3 hours ago, GrimReaper said:

woke leftist opinion

 

...Uh huh...

 

This entire thread is just a gigantic buzzmemeword fiesta. It's an absolute joke in and of itself, and it gives me diarrhoea just trying to translate it into English. I can count the amount of actual sensible talk on one hand. Fox News is starting to make more sense than Lover's Lab... 🤯

 

 

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3 hours ago, MonVert said:

This entire thread is just a gigantic buzzmemeword fiesta. It's an absolute joke in and of itself, and it gives me diarrhoea just trying to translate it into English. I can count the amount of actual sensible talk on one hand. Fox News is starting to make more sense than Lover's Lab... 🤯

 

A biased but still fairly credible news outlet is making more sense than an eclectic bunch of anons?

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1 hour ago, GimmeBACON said:

A biased but still fairly credible news outlet is making more sense than an eclectic bunch of anons?

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And plenty of reason not to trust either of them. One is a money whore and one is a like whore.

 

I'm just here for the shit show. And the mods of course but also the shit show.

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9 hours ago, MonVert said:

...Uh huh...

Dunno where you live that you never encountered them but these publications do exist. One prominent example over here would be taz.

They do have journalistic standards and I guess their actual fact reporting isn't too bad but boy to they employ a lot of these weird creatures that must have graduated in one of these "gender studies" majors that produce word diarrhea every day and try to discredit and undermine actual science whenever they can.

I can still remember the discussions I had with them about how the scientific method is subjective too and how our knowledge of the physical world is culturally determined instead of actually accumulating facts - so very foreign aliens from another planet would get entirely different results - that stupid bullshit and their smug faces when spouting it always infuriated me and always will.

These people are real. And they try to sell you their narrative about the real world out there.

 

But as I said, I don't take this very seriously anyway, doesn't seem to have much influence on the real world around me.

 

What worries me a little is that these dogmatic fights between woke left and cynical right distract from the fact that in a majority of the countries on this planet feminism is still a very valid and just cause.

And the possibility that at least some of the people disparaging it here and on other sites / in other places might be actually assholes from these exact countries fighting against people who just want to have equal rights and opportunities, something we take for granted in Europe.

So this whole discussion isn't as clear-cut as it seems in my opinion and that's why I think I'll stop engaging in it at this point. I don't know you guys and what your story and agenda is.

Example: You're from Brazil or India and think feminism is bullshit? Get rekt.

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Ah yes, the intellectually stimulating discussion about how 2+2=4 is white supremacy, colonialism and slavery all in one package while 2+2=5 is liberation. The issue is that these people hold influence, not so much that they can dictate everything, but they do influence decisions in academia.

https://www.mathvalues.org/masterblog/anti-science-policy-censure-of-discourse-on-race-and-racism

It's a lot of drivel, but this here takes the cake: It is time for all members of our profession to acknowledge that mathematics is created by humans and therefore inherently carries human biases.

 

An association for mathematics declares math to be a social construct. People like that should never be allowed to touch anything math related ever again under threat of severe violence.

 

Or how the official BLM-website declared the nuclear family something that ought to be destroyed. They've since removed that from their website, though.

 

Oh, and we can't forget this pearl of wisdom:

Spoiler

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These people aren't nobodies but the fact that they can peddle their nonsense in the mainstream media or in academics is horrifying, in my opinion. We might as well pretend snake oil salesmen are real doctors.

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59 minutes ago, Bazinga said:

What worries me a little is that these dogmatic fights between woke left and cynical right distract from the fact that in a majority of the countries on this planet feminism is still a very valid and just cause.

While yes this is true, the majority of the developed world no longer requires "feminism" as a talking point. 50 to 60 years age the first and second wave of feminism were making valid points "actual equality" in jobs, choices and opportunities. However the current iteration of feminism is plain old man bashing female supremacy. 

 

17 hours ago, Bazinga said:

rape culture

Now there's another winner for you as nowhere in the developed western culture is rape tolerated. While a man can lose his job, family hell even his life over an accusation women seem to be immune to the repercussions. It's been a couple of years back that I read an article (can't find a link now) where a woman broke into her EXs home and waited for him to return. She then threatened him with a knife to have sex with her. When she was later arrested she was charged with breaking and entering and kidnapping. Nowhere is this article or set of criminal charges was the word rape to be found.

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On 12/11/2020 at 1:06 AM, GimmeBACON said:

I held the door open for her

"Thank you!" That is my response. At a convenience store where I live, everyone (90%) hold the door for others, regardless of gender. There is an outer door, and an inner door. IF we are both going in or both exiting, and a man holds the 1st door for me, I then hold the 2nd door for him and say, "You're turn." ))) I should correct... men hold the doors for both women and other men 99% of the time. Women are perhaps 75% hold for men, and 50% hold for other women!

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