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KoolHndLuke

Toxic Masculinity and Men's Shame

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59 minutes ago, GrimReaper said:

I'd like to chime in and say that 'toxic masculinity' ≠ 'masculinity', at least in theory. What bothers me is that this term is clearly gendered - I do not think that certain types of behavior are exclusively found within one gender, a lot of what people would call toxic masculinity, such as abusive behavior, violent temper tantrums and issues stemming from repressed emotions can be found just as often in women. We now know for example that domestic violence is in most cases reciprocal yet we still hear the narrative about men being violent thugs and women being the battered victims. It should be noted, however, that women suffer more severe injuries in general.

 

So yeah, while the term technically doesn't smear men in general, it kinda sorta does. It's just a sleight of hand to muddy the waters. If the discussion was honest, we would be talking about toxic behavior itself, regardless of gender but here we are.

There is still a common belief, that men assigned with their behavior from birth, and their behavior is biologically predetermined. Unfortunately, this belief is supported by those, who deny the fact of any "toxicity". Like "it's natural for a men being assholes, because they have "evolved" that way".

And this is bullshit. Every trait of a "toxic masculinity" is enforced on boys. Just like femininity is enforced on girls. Kids gave way less examples of stereotypical gender behavior even after years of that shit enforced on them. You could say "but when they reach puberty, they start to display a clear difference", and that's because gender conformity is also heavily enforced in our society. You will just suffer if you won't assume a stereotypical gender role. That's being even worse for teens, in case of hyper-sexuality. Hell, the majority of people is still homophobic.

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3 hours ago, Darkpig said:

it was the 1920s when women first gained independence. It was some time ago but some of those ideals still hang around today. There are plenty out there that would be happy to live during the American Civil war and there were defined gender roles then. And this is history time with Darkpig. Roll out your blankets kiddos cause this is going to get boring. Men back in ye olde days needed to be the alpha at all costs. Come the industrial revolution they were no longer their own boss, no longer the alpha of their own game but simply the bread winners. That is still a lot more power than women had. Women did have to take shit from men as they could not own jobs thus they could not live without their spouse.

 

 

Tell me more, Uncle Darkpig, about what happened back in your day. 😅 What happened during those dark times of the 1900s, when women gained independance and started to vote?

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On 12/15/2020 at 10:32 PM, Darkpig said:

And that is what is such a communist ideal. We cannot all share the blame for our actions.

Yes that is why the term "TOXIC MASCULINITY" should be forgotten. Are some men toxic? Hell yes. Are all men toxic? Not in the slightest. Yet in this situation we are just going to forgo logic and common sense and say that "one bad apple does indeed spoil the whole bunch".

11 hours ago, Darkpig said:

Why am I the only one unoffended by this toxic masculinity word? Whatever. The old masculine ideals should be calmly addressed by parents and psychologists.

So we should forcibly indoctrinate an entire generation of boys into a new and totally unfounded ideology.

5 hours ago, Darkpig said:

How did this affect men? Rather poorly I would think. Many were alcoholics so much that I think there was a prohibition.

Prohibition had nothing to do with the number alcoholics at the time. It had to do with a handful of angry "KARENS" wanting to impose their beliefs on everyone else, just like they do today.

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On 12/16/2020 at 6:32 AM, Darkpig said:

There is shown to be more men doing criminal acts than women so it can't be a coincidence. 

You're right, it's not a coincidence, but what you get wrong is the reason.

 

If you haven't notice in the court cases, women not only get shorter sentences for the same crime, but usually tend to get away jail free more times than men for the same offences. 

 

Due to that issue, there will always be more men in jail than women.

 

Let's do a small example, say women are sentenced to jail for 2 years and men for 3 years, while 3 out of 10 women get scot free and only 1 out of 10 men get away, and 10 of each get jailed every year.

 

First year you'll have 7 women and 9 men, already a good start, 2nd year you have 14 women and 18 men, 3rd year you have 14 women and 27 men, 4th year you still have 14 women and 27 men, and that's how it'll repeat.

 

Unless there will ever be a solid law that makes it so both men and women get jailed at the same rate and the same amount for the same crime, there will always be more men in prison than women.

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9 hours ago, RitualClarity said:

Women shouldn't take shit from anybody.. why should they? Where are you going with this .. ? Just jumping around trying to add things to this and that to try to make some sense, I don't get it.  women have a right to stand up to those that want to cause them harm. Call out people who try to abuse them, harm them or hold them back. They need to be encouraged to do so. That doesn't mean you have to be an SJW to do so.  Just someone with a sister or mother etc. Someone that wants everybody to have the same chances at opportunity. Prevent oppression or abuse.

 

This also needs addressing.

 

To prevent oppression or abuse, you need clear rules and definitions.

 

Women shouldn't take shit from anyone, yea, that's true, but they shouldn't abuse the laws set up to protect them either.

 

You know the old meme with how Chad tells a secretary she's looking good and she gushes, then when the fat guy tells her the same thing, she suddenly calls HR? Right now, "sexual harassment" means anything that makes a woman feel offended and harassed. If a man looks a certain way at a woman, she can call it sexual harassment, call HR or college council, whatever, and the man gets the boot.

 

Right now, a woman's word is stronger than evidence, we already know the case of Jhonny Depp and Amber, but there were similar cases as well, in the US there was one case in a college campus where a woman accused the guy of abusing her, he had a recording of her being the abusive one, despite nothing happening as he left and she was too drunk to follow, the council still tossed him out and even told him that "even if she's the aggressor, he would've enjoyed it", and similar cases, guy doesn't want to date her and she feels offended? Accuse him, this also happened.

 

In Sweden, Germany and few other EU countries, there's laws that say that even consensual sex is rape if there isn't 100% clear consent about everything, she didn't like the guy? "I was a bit tipsy and that influenced my decision", boom, guy in jail. What if I'm on a date and the man asks for consent then and there for everyone to hear, so there's witnesses, and say I agree, I can still take back consent later by saying that "I felt pressured due to how many people were there", again, same thing, guy in jail for rape, as even tho I gave consent, it wasn't full consent of my own will with no outside factors, and all that yada yada.

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I think some people are just gonna be 'toxic'.

 

I don't think that 'masculine' or 'feminine' stereotypes are turning people into c*nts. Sure, some might be enabled by 'em but these people would find a way to be obnoxious even in a perfectly equal world! It doesn't matter what's between your legs - what matters is the stuff that's in your brain. Give people a thought and they're gonna parrot it for a day - teach them how to think for themselves and they'll probably develop into decent human beings ( not my fault there's exceptions to that rule... ) 

I do believe tho that most people are good natured and respectful and as time goes on, those kinds of people are gonna become even more common. While the people that thrive on... Well, most of the 'bad' things already stated in all posts prior to this one, are gonna decliiiine so hard. 

 

We just need some more patience and of course consensual hugs and all the other nice things we can share with people! 

 

Just my two cents ^^

 

 

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6 hours ago, Voiddweller said:

There is still a common belief, that men assigned with their behavior from birth, and their behavior is biologically predetermined. Unfortunately, this belief is supported by those, who deny the fact of any "toxicity".

To some degree, men and women ARE assigned certain attributes by their gender, which like it or no, are from caveman. So, can one say that these things are toxic if they are natural elements of existence and gender? Basic reality: Men = bigger, stronger, faster, hunter, gatherer, protector, outwardly aggressive. Women = continuation of the species. They carry the unborn, so nature (generalizing) makes women less aggressive, as to not by as willing to place themselves or their priceless womb in harm. But when protecting their young, are the most vicious creatures to be found, even to challenge and defeat a bigger, stronger male. Why? For those who do not understand nature... the job of nature is to simply continue. Bees make more bees, birds make more birds, and people make more people.

 

First call me whatever name you feel necessary to make yourself feel better, then look this up... Women often complain about cold hands and feet, yes? Nature chooses continuation of the species over individual comfort. Even the circulatory systems of men and women are different. When cold, men's blood vessels and capillaries open to maintain blood flow and warmth to the hands and feet. Why? Hunting, gathering, protecting, etc. A woman's circulatory system restricts blood flow to her extremities (cold hands and feet). Why? Her warmth is kept in the body for the purpose of keeping her womb warm to protect... continuation of the species.

 

So, whether you believe that God made us, or evolution, or some other thought of origin...

 

STOP confusing nature with bad habits!!!!

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59 minutes ago, LadySmoks said:

STOP confusing nature with bad habits!!!!

Youre using physiology to explain psychology. That doesnt work all that well in modern times

 

Its actually not true that your personality is based on gender. Not talking for your cavemen, I dont know any personally nor did I read a lot about them but as for modern humans, just because youre a man doesnt mean that you also "act like one". While certain traits are more common on males or females a clear structure on what a male or female personality is, does. not. exist. 

Genetics define only very basic things about your personality but not your overall personality. There are men out there with an emotional intelligence 10 times as high as your average woman just as there are women out there being 10 times more logical than your average man

 

His point is that "toxicity" (in general) is something that society teaches you and society is more fond of teaching males this "toxicity" because its easier to blame evolution than accepting that the way society is doing things is wrong and change those things

"just because youre a man doesnt mean that you also "act like one"" - but if you dont, its possible you run into issues. Being bullied, excluded, etcpp. The same applies to women

 

 

Btw, youre last line doesnt add up to anything else you wrote. First you say that nature does indeed give you certain traits with birth - and you elaborate this very nicely (even though completely missing the point - and you ignore that nature (or rather evolution) is killing off those differences more and more) and then end your post with nature doesnt influence a person

 

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On 11/23/2020 at 3:40 AM, KoolHndLuke said:

If people aren't defined by their gender, then WTF is this supposed to mean?

Terms like "toxic masculity" are made up just to shame and bash men you don't like, there is no other meaning to it.

Some humans are cruel by nature, they can behave like douches regardless  their gender. 

In my school days I've seen a lot of all female gangs, which have humiliated and beat young boys, just for "fun", leaving a lot of them with psychological traumas, one even commited suicide and nobody did anything to them, since boys around here are raised with belief that you should not touch girl, no matter what she does you should act as "gentleman".

Is this toxic femininity? No. They are just a bunch of violent witches and life have executed it's punishment upon them with time.

I don't categorize people by gender, when they commit vile shit, neither should you.  

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3 hours ago, Scrab said:

Youre using physiology to explain psychology. That doesnt work all that well in modern times

There in lies the problem as I feel that LADYSMOKS was trying to say that physiology when based on gender most definitely influences psychology. Men and women are just plain made different (mind and body) period.

3 hours ago, Scrab said:

Genetics define only very basic things about your personality but not your overall personality. There are men out there with an emotional intelligence 10 times as high as your average woman just as there are women out there being 10 times more logical than your average man

Okay I agree with this but those basics are very ingrained and not that easy to overcome. Like it or not male and female brains are set up differently while sure there is a lot of crossover there are some things that just don't translate one to the other.

3 hours ago, Scrab said:

His point is that "toxicity" (in general) is something that society teaches you and society is more fond of teaching males this "toxicity" because its easier to blame evolution than accepting that the way society is doing things is wrong and change those things

I have heard this argument a thousand times. The problem being that try as you might there is noway to teach a dog to be a cat, same goes for men and women. They are psychologically different creatures.

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3 hours ago, Scrab said:

Its actually not true that your personality is based on gender.

It's also not true that you read the first three words I chose to write. So, I will directly quote them...

4 hours ago, LadySmoks said:

To some degree,

And, I find it to be an overly simplified view to believe deep rooted, primal instincts play no part in your "evolved" world. 

 

We are animals. Big brain, or no. Fight or flight. The most basic of instincts... closely accompanied by "deer in the headlights." Deny these thing if you choose. I will take our child and run... my husband will kill anything that is a threat with no concern for his own life. It's our natures. And should my husband not be there and no choice remains, I would defend my child with my last breath. These things are nature at work, not much more. 

3 hours ago, Scrab said:

"toxicity" (in general) is something that society teaches you

AND AGAIN... BAD HABITS AND TRAITS ARE NOT MASCULINITY! THAT... has been my point. Even here, you say it is learned. I can agree to some extent, as bad habits can be learned. It's simply that some poorly educated whiner took those learned habits and traits, and attached them to being male, and masculinity that I find repugnant. As if, woman do not or can not have such traits or habits.

 

You have women who want to say they are equal, yet when it's something bad, they claim it is "males" who have this, or do that, then blame society. OY!

3 hours ago, Scrab said:

First you say that nature does indeed give you certain traits

I understand that reading comprehension can be tricky, but I wrote attributes, not traits. They really are two different things. And you seem to confuse evolution with societal pressures, be they good or bad. Aside from some sci fi films when human "evolve" into some gender neutered (chosen word) race, both mentally and physically, reality remains intact, that we are very different, because we were made to do very different things.

 

So to conclude, your supposition appears to be more of you not understanding the definitions of some words, and using your lack of understanding in trying to make reason of your line of thought. You should look up key words used, like habits (often learned), traits (often genetic) and nature (basic human instinct).

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1 hour ago, LadySmoks said:

It's also not true that you read the first three words I chose to write

As a matter of fact, I did read them. I just chose to ignore them for a simple reason:

The only use they offer is to be used as a fallback in case youre argument is being put under pressure and you no longer know how to properly continue

Its the same as "in my opinion", "to some extend" or "theoretically" or all those other words. Theyre only purpose is to be used as a knockout-argument. It holds no real value other than expressing insecurity, the individual isnt entirely sure what they are talking about, so theyre using those few words at the beginning to ensure they somehow can talk themselves out in case it gets tricky to find proper arguments. Dont use those words in a discussion that youre trying to take serious, you either go all in or dont go in at all

"Theoretically, a meteor could crush your head in the next few seconds" - "Well, yes. But the chance for smth like that to happen is so small we dont even have word for the bloody number to express it" - "I SAID THEORETICALLY"

 

If you dont define to "what extend" or "to what degree" your argument applies, then those words are utterly worthless and only achieve the above 

 

1 hour ago, LadySmoks said:

It's our natures

These things are primitive instincts, this is true and I never said youre wrong in that regard. Those instincts youre referring to take over when our own logic is no longer capable of analyzing and comprehending a situation. In those scenarios - and only in those scenarios - those instincts take full control and only in those instances, this can be used as an argument

 

But were not talking about those instances, are we? Were talking about our day to day life and the only primitive instinct hat I ever encountered in my day to day life is to not jump down a building because the landing will most likely hurt

Were not talking about any extreme scenarios that people in horror movies encounter, where panic and fear takes over all control and you "just do it" because you cant think straight anymore and just want to "get out" - and heres the funny thing about this: Both gender would act equally in such scenarios: Evaluating the most basic and simplest course of action which the individual is able to perform and may increase the chance of survival without thinking about the consequences

 

1 hour ago, LadySmoks said:

AND AGAIN... BAD HABITS AND TRAITS ARE NOT MASCULINITY! THAT... has been my point. Even here, you say it is learned. I can agree to some extent, as bad habits can be learned. It's simply that some poorly educated whiner took those learned habits and traits, and attached them to being male, and masculinity that I find repugnant. As if, woman do not or can not have such traits or habits.

And here Im utterly confused why we're even arguing in such a hostile fashion when we're apparently agreeing with each other

 

Im not going to comment on the last paragraph. I cant really see an argument there and id prbly just repeat my first paragraph

 

2 hours ago, wokking56 said:

I have heard this argument a thousand times. The problem being that try as you might there is noway to teach a dog to be a cat, same goes for men and women. They are psychologically different creatures.

You should go and sue whoever told you that men and women arent both human. That guy definitely doesnt deserve his teaching license

(Ok im sorry, thats some terrible timing for jokes)

 

I assume your entire post goes by this thing about "male and female brains" - at least I assume thats what you mean when you say "mind". Two fun facts for you:

- Most of the arguments on this topic are based on a study in the 20th century talking something something about men having more grey matter than women and women more white matter than men in their brainz. This study is considered invalid due to a very limited sample size, furthermore this sample size ignored some essential conditions which could heavily alter the result of said study, such as IQ or size of the brain

- While there is evidence that the AVERAGE brain of a male works differently than the AVERAGE brain of a female, there is no evidence whatsoever that this influences behavior

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14 hours ago, MonVert said:

Tell me more, Uncle Darkpig, about what happened back in your day. 😅 What happened during those dark times of the 1900s, when women gained independance and started to vote?

Who has been teaching people to call me Uncle Darkpig? Thanks I hate it.💩

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5 hours ago, Scrab said:

I just chose to ignore them for a simple reason:

From your appraisal, it would appear more that you simply do not know the definition of the words I use, and so give them the meaning that you wish... which makes you appear to be right, in your own mind... and in doing so, completely miss the point being made, which is...

 

"Toxic masculinity" is no more than a new age, made up phrase that basically describes the failures of those who made it up in the first place. It's just another excuse for their failures. Everything people say is "toxic masculinity" is no more than bad habits or bad character traits that can be found in BOTH genders.

 

I had ignored this gem before, but need to ask....

10 hours ago, Scrab said:

There are men out there with an emotional intelligence 10 times as high as your average woman

What academic toddler came up with, "emotional intelligence"? And how do YOU measure this abstract drivel? Seriously.

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22 hours ago, Voiddweller said:

There is still a common belief, that men assigned with their behavior from birth, and their behavior is biologically predetermined. Unfortunately, this belief is supported by those, who deny the fact of any "toxicity". Like "it's natural for a men being assholes, because they have "evolved" that way".

And this is bullshit. Every trait of a "toxic masculinity" is enforced on boys. Just like femininity is enforced on girls. Kids gave way less examples of stereotypical gender behavior even after years of that shit enforced on them. You could say "but when they reach puberty, they start to display a clear difference", and that's because gender conformity is also heavily enforced in our society. You will just suffer if you won't assume a stereotypical gender role. That's being even worse for teens, in case of hyper-sexuality. Hell, the majority of people is still homophobic.

Social constructivism is dead, Jim. You can mold people to a certain extent, but there's difference between males and females even directly after birth - males tend to be more interested in things, females in faces. That's not to say that this is always the case but it's an observable tendency. Which should come to no surprise because the development of your body is heavily dependent on which hormone treatment you get inside the womb. Puberty is another milestone that further cements the differences between the sexes. We also know that hormones do affect your mentality and behavior. People with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome are probably the most feminine folk you can find despite being genetically male and that's entirely due to the lack of certain hormones.

 

While culture and society certainly have an effect on the development of each person, social constructivism or the general idea that a human being can be shaped or prgrammed into anything you want is a myth.

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6 hours ago, GrimReaper said:

Social constructivism is dead, Jim. You can mold people to a certain extent, but there's difference between males and females even directly after birth - males tend to be more interested in things, females in faces. That's not to say that this is always the case but it's an observable tendency. Which should come to no surprise because the development of your body is heavily dependent on which hormone treatment you get inside the womb. Puberty is another milestone that further cements the differences between the sexes. We also know that hormones do affect your mentality and behavior. People with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome are probably the most feminine folk you can find despite being genetically male and that's entirely due to the lack of certain hormones.

 

While culture and society certainly have an effect on the development of each person, social constructivism or the general idea that a human being can be shaped or prgrammed into anything you want is a myth.

Ha ha) You claim that social constructivism is dead, but it's not. Traditions existed in societies before any recorded history. A tradition have strong influence, and you are bound to follow traditions, if you don't want to be excluded from society for being "queer" You can deny or ignore that fact, but it is there. Homophobia, sexism and transphobia all have roots in that silly worship of "natural" things, of biological determinism, statements about things being "made" like that and other similar bullshit. In fact, there is nothing made by humans is natural. We are product of a random deviation. Damn, even if you are creationist, you know that biblical history of humanity is started from deviation.

And human mind is made from deviations upon deviations. Hormones do have influence on your motivation, but there is a plenty of other chemistry in brain. Your mind is formed primarily by social interaction with other people. And that's how you got your personality, passions ans affections formed. Also, you have no idea about what other people are interested in. Claiming that you do is just an assumption based on common belief. And don't even start with this "feminine boys lacks certain hormones bullshit" because even though you may look feminine, that doesn't mean you suddenly have a rearranged mind to be more interested in "girly" things. There is whole world of examples how environment affect personality with complete disregard of biology. Drop that sexist junk. You have no idea.

 

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15 hours ago, Scrab said:

You should go and sue whoever told you that men and women arent both human.

At no point did I say they weren't both human. I will admit that I misspoke when I said "they are psychologically different". I meant to say physiological referring to their actual anatomical body. Women have wider hips to aid in child birth, men are larger with more muscle mass for heavy labor. Therefor they are different.

15 hours ago, Scrab said:

 

I assume your entire post goes by this thing about "male and female brains" - at least I assume thats what you mean when you say "mind".

No, when did I ever mention brains? Sure I know that on the average a male brain is slightly larger that a female brain but that is only due to the fact that men are generally slightly larger than women on the whole. There is no discernible topographical difference between a male and female brain. 

I said and meant their minds. Men and women just plain think differently. Confronted with a problem a male will think "what can I do to fix this" a female will think "who can I get to fix this". Now that's not to say a man wont get someone else to do it or that a woman wont do it themselves.

 

Perhaps you should try and recoup your educational expenses.

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36 minutes ago, Voiddweller said:

Traditions existed in societies before any recorded history. A tradition have strong influence, and you are bound to follow traditions, if you don't want to be excluded from society for being "queer" You can deny or ignore that fact, but it is there.

This has nothing to do with toxicity this is about acceptable behavior within the societal norns. Which are changing all the time. Hell a little over a hundred years ago I could have owned other humans (slaves) or could have beaten my wife senseless because she disagreed with me. Which at that time was socially acceptable behavior thankfully times change and hopefully for the better.

36 minutes ago, Voiddweller said:

There is whole world of examples how environment affect personality with complete disregard of their biology.

Yes and there are just as many examples of that not happening. So what's your point?

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18 hours ago, wokking56 said:

I have heard this argument a thousand times. The problem being that try as you might there is noway to teach a dog to be a cat, same goes for men and women. They are psychologically different creatures.

Dude, how many dogs or cats do you have? Even though they are different species and have a multitude of breeds, all have their own, unique psyche. And can behave in multitude of ways. And it's completely wrong to seriously compare them with human males and females. This is not even an argument at all.

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11 minutes ago, wokking56 said:

Yes and there are just as many examples of that not happening. So what's your point?

Show me one. Show me an example of person, who's mind was primarily shaped with biology, and no other events were able to steer that person enough from that determination.

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7 hours ago, GrimReaper said:

Social constructivism is dead, Jim. You can mold people to a certain extent, but there's difference between males and females even directly after birth - males tend to be more interested in things, females in faces. That's not to say that this is always the case but it's an observable tendency. Which should come to no surprise because the development of your body is heavily dependent on which hormone treatment you get inside the womb. Puberty is another milestone that further cements the differences between the sexes. We also know that hormones do affect your mentality and behavior. People with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome are probably the most feminine folk you can find despite being genetically male and that's entirely due to the lack of certain hormones.

 

While culture and society certainly have an effect on the development of each person, social constructivism or the general idea that a human being can be shaped or prgrammed into anything you want is a myth.

I think you're right. That's probably also the reason why all these programs to get girls interested in science don't work.

One can try to explain this away with societal expectations, sexist workplaces and peer pressure by other girls all day but it's getting less and less convincing with each new decade.

They are just not that interested in dead things, period.

 

One thing I'd like to add though. When we talk about what men and women want then of course we should never forget that in all discussions about larger groups we are always looking at normal distributions (and other distribution functions) that often heavily overlap with the groups that we compare them to.

There are a lot of women interested and gifted in math and sciences (besides biology) and you should never ever use arguments like this to question the decisions and career choice of an individual.

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1 hour ago, wokking56 said:

Women have wider hips to aid in child birth, men are larger with more muscle mass for heavy labor. Therefor they are different.

Oof.. how about you just read post #260 again.

1 hour ago, wokking56 said:

Men and women just plain think differently. Confronted with a problem a male will think "what can I do to fix this" a female will think "who can I get to fix this"

17 hours ago, Scrab said:

- While there is evidence that the AVERAGE brain of a male works differently than the AVERAGE brain of a female, there is no evidence whatsoever that this influences behavior

I mean I literally noted this misconception in my previous post

 

11 hours ago, LadySmoks said:

What academic toddler came up with, "emotional intelligence"?

Peter Salovey and John D. Mayer in 1990, nothing a quick google search couldnt tell you

 

11 hours ago, LadySmoks said:

And how do YOU measure this abstract drivel?

Me? not at all. Why would I. Thats like asking me how I measure IQ. I dont. Its not my job

 

Id assume what you wanted to ask is "what" is Emotional Intelligence and to answer this question: its the ability to understand, control and in some cases manipulate your own but also the emotion of others. To make it even simpler: Its the ability to make a child laugh and to not punch a hole into the wall because you lost in a game

 

If you want an answer to the first part of your post do the following: For the 1st paragraph: Read the 1st paragraph from my previous post, for the 2nd one: Read my 3rd paragraph from my previous post. Im lazy, my pardon

 

 

Im exhausted, you win. White Flag. Yay.

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Emotional intelligence is a real thing, long acknowledged by corporate management everywhere. Quite funny that there are still neanderthals who try to deny that this stuff matters a lot, especially if you want to make a career. 😂

How to measure it? You don't. You could roleplay situations between superiors and subordinates, with conflicts and differences that the superior has to settle.

But I don't think that leads to some sort of score, just to things like "you're qualified for the job, when can you start working" or "you will hear from us".

Just an example of a situation where emotional intelligence is required.

Or to put it differently, do you think someone with Asperger would make a good manager? No? Why not, his IQ is probably through the roof. ^^

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3 hours ago, Voiddweller said:

Ha ha) You claim that social constructivism is dead, but it's not. Traditions existed in societies before any recorded history. A tradition have strong influence, and you are bound to follow traditions, if you don't want to be excluded from society for being "queer" You can deny or ignore that fact, but it is there. Homophobia, sexism and transphobia all have roots in that silly worship of "natural" things, of biological determinism, statements about things being "made" like that and other similar bullshit. In fact, there is nothing made by humans is natural. We are product of a random deviation. Damn, even if you are creationist, you know that biblical history of humanity is started from deviation.

And human mind is made from deviations upon deviations. Hormones do have influence on your motivation, but there is a plenty of other chemistry in brain. Your mind is formed primarily by social interaction with other people. And that's how you got your personality, passions ans affections formed. Also, you have no idea about what other people are interested in. Claiming that you do is just an assumption based on common belief. And don't even start with this "feminine boys lacks certain hormones bullshit" because even though you may look feminine, that doesn't mean you suddenly have a rearranged mind to be more interested in "girly" things. There is whole world of examples how environment affect personality with complete disregard of biology. Drop that sexist junk. You have no idea.

 

It is dead and has been for at least 20 years now. Your mention of homophobia even proves my point - many societies in the past and even some today do their best to eliminate homosexuality to the point of putting homosexuals to death. Yet, despite all this, homosexuals have existed since forever, continue to exist and will be around until humanity goes extinct despite enormous societal pressure.

 

Oh, and complete androgen insensitivity syndrome doesn't mean you look like a feminine boy. You'll look like a woman, with a vagina but internal testes instead of ovaries as well as being infertile and with a personality so feminine most genetical women look like guys in comparison. Because women also produce small amounts of male hormones naturally, while someone with CAIS is characterized by a complete absence.

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