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Vyxenne

[SOLVED][WILDLY OFF-TOPIC NOW]Need Video Capture Software!

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I'm Looking for a decent in-game and out-of game ("desktop") video capture software- have tried a couple, with issues-

  • FRAPS- costs 5-6 fps even when not recording! WTF? Otherwise does a good job IMHO
  • NVIDIA Shadowplay- always busy doing something, taking up resources even when I'm not playing any game or doing anything other than maybe reading emails or Tweeting some inane trope... Outputs only MP4 files, which I must uncompress to do compositing/post-process work, then reco9mpress down to mp4 for YT, resulting in a poor quality, stuttery video; also does not remember its own settings and puts up a bright green "Recording has started!" banner when toggled to record, spoiling the first 10 seconds of every clip :classic_angry:
  • Bandicoot :classic_biggrin: Bandicam- works but watermarks everything and has a limit on length, also some other unsatisfactory trait but it's been gone too long for me to remember what it was

I just installed OBS, but it is ALL ABOUT live streaming (errors out because it can't find a browser plugin- I couldn't care less about streaming or a browser plugin! So OBS is a Streamer and not so much just simple vidcap-to-file. Also, it has a pretty steep learning curve, owing mostly to the fact that it is a video STREAMER at heart and so clutters up what should be a simple concept with arcane engineering technobabble when what I want is just "Set your preferred capture-toggle hotkey and tell me the path where I should save the lossless-format files."

 

Anybody know of any decent, free or affordable vidcap software for Windows 7 that will just record my game (or my desktop if I want to make a tutorial or whatever) at 60 fps 1920x1080 + stereo audio, starting  when I press the hotkey and stopping when I press the hotkey again, saving the results to some low-loss file format (AVI may come close) without spoiling the video with watermarks or asinine, redundant Notifications and without bogging down my system and without requiring a PhD in video theory to set up and use?

 

Then I'm gonna need a video editor replacement for "Windows Live Movie Maker," whose clunkiness has just exceeded my intolerance threshold. Grrrrr.....

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Fraps is best...

I was using Fraps for 10 years and it was fking best Video rec. soft.

 

2 Years ago i lost everything because my computer burn... i had choice, buy again Fraps ( and paying twice for so good program is fair ) or pick different program...

Now im using Mirilis Action... and im not very happy about that...

 

Action on Screenshots was looking rly good... but after 2 years of using that shit...

 

 - Action can't record properly old games... he fuck colors or just record black screen for old games...

Support Team -> Its just old game, we do not support this... cool...

 

 - I know that You play skyrim... i was recording Skyrim with Bandicam and Fraps - NO PROBLEMS

once i bought Action my game was crashing over and over again ( i fixed that problem by my self - Support team was again unable to help me )

 

 - Action is sometimes detected as virus by other games... 

Spoiler

unnamed.png.316e9067ec9206b5799c1d1e4477c636.png

Spoiler

s12.png.c8fa2e96023430b171fafc2bb622c0b2.png

Ofc. Action Support team again ignored me, they dont fking care about customers...

but ofc. BDO Support Team is rly great :)...

 

 

You can try Action if You want... 

But You should use Fraps...

 

true... Fraps files are insane heavy... Fraps may burn few FPS...

but Fraps works without single problems

 

with Fraps You can run old game new game any game

with Fraps You can record sharp and perfect video ( i forgot to mention, Action sometimes fuck colors, its not big difference but Action don't save 1:1 screen / video )

with Fraps You can record Desktop and Games

 

 

 

i recomend You Fraps...

unless You can edit fucked Soft. by authors...

 

if You can't fix Action shit by Your self its better to not use that trash...

i wrote 7 times to Action Support Team with ask for help...

 

6 times they ignored me

1 time then answer me but they didnt had solution for my problem... "Sorry" - is not a solution...

 

but i managed to fix 5 of 7 problems by my self :3...

 

//Edit:

Quote

Anybody know of any decent, free or affordable vidcap soft

There is no good "Free" video soft. 

Fraps -> need to pay
Action -> need to pay ( 30 days free )

 

 

Fraps is worth is money, i think they could double price and still sell this product...

I would not pay for Action twice... even half of the price is not worth it :/...

 

 

//Edit2:

About Video Editing soft

 

1) Sony Vegas ( Best of best )

2) Filmora ( new soft. i was trying it and its pretty good, but not rly worth to pay )

3) AVS Video Editor ( worth its money, i was using it for 7 years, rly good soft with many option )

 

if You buy AVS Video Editor you will also have AVS Video Capture 

so u can both edit and record video :P

 

but tbh AVS Video Capture is rly bad... xD

its on Bandicam quality level :D

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51 minutes ago, Vyxenne said:

I'm Looking for a decent in-game and out-of game ("desktop") video capture software- have tried a couple, with issues-

  • ....Bandicoot :classic_biggrin: Bandicam- works but watermarks everything and has a limit on length, also some other unsatisfactory trait but it's been gone too long for me to remember what it was

....

Anybody know of any decent, free or affordable vidcap software for Windows 7 that will just record my game (or my desktop if I want to make a tutorial or whatever) at 60 fps 1920x1080 + stereo audio, starting  when I press the hotkey and stopping when I press the hotkey again, saving the results to some low-loss file format (AVI may come close) without spoiling the video with watermarks....

I think the Bandicam watermarking is an attribute of the unregistered product? I'm trying out the Bandicam/Bandicut pair now; so far, they seem to be a much better answer than Fraps.:

1) Using GPU hardware compression (NVENC) removes load from the CPU.

2) Since the output is encoded, the files are a lot smaller.

3) The combination of 1 and 2 suggests that I'm less likely to have oopses during recording due to CPU or I/O spikes from something else.

4) The Bandicut tool works on the compressed files. OK, I'm sure it decodes and re-encodes behind the scenes, but from my view point (which is, of course, all that matters 😉), the files produced by Bandicam "just work" in Bandicut.

 

[pedantic]

"low-loss file format (AVI may come close)" is a content-free phrase, because "AVI" isn't a "format" where "loss" is involved (i.e. a compressed-video format produced by a codec). AVI is a container format; what's inside may be in a variety of video or audio (or both) stream formats.

[/pedantic]

Thanks, I feel much better now....

 

Since you specify "or affordable", you may be inadvertently limiting your candidates with issues like watermarking that don't apply to registered/paid-for products.

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On 9/13/2020 at 8:29 PM, ChaosTheorist said:

I think the Bandicam watermarking is an attribute of the unregistered product? I'm trying out the Bandicam/Bandicut pair now; so far, they seem to be a much better answer than Fraps.

You may be exactly right! As I implied, it's been several years since I tried Bandi-whatever, and yes, I tried the free version. I'll have to revisit it, so thanks.

 

On 9/13/2020 at 8:29 PM, ChaosTheorist said:

[blah-blah-blah] (NVENC) [blah-blah-blah]

2) Since the output is encoded, the files are a lot smaller.

What file format is "NVENC?" This fails my sniff test, having an odor suspiciously reminiscent of the undefined technobabble of OBS that turns me off so much. And yes, this is a rhetorical question- I know how to use Google to find out what "NVENC" means. :classic_biggrin: My whole point is, until I find something to replace Windows Live Movie Maker as a rudimentary compositing tool, I have to have a vidcapper that saves video files in some format that WLMM can use. Shadowplay outputs MP4 files, which I have to convert to AVI for WLMM to process, then recompress to MP4 to make YouTube happy- thereby introducing a lot of quality loss, stuttering pans no matter how slowly I rotate the camera or how close to 60 fps my game was running when I shot the video, and artifacts that are clearly visible in the finished "movie," even when just played locally on my machine, removing YouTube processing as a suspect. I need a solution that outputs uncompressed (or losslessly-compressed?) files that WLMM can deal with directly so there is only one file compression to MP4, at the end, after all editing, soundracking, compositing, titling and crediting screens (etc. etc.) have been done.

 

On 9/13/2020 at 8:29 PM, ChaosTheorist said:

[pedantic]

"low-loss file format (AVI may come close)" is a content-free phrase, because "AVI" isn't a "format" where "loss" is involved (i.e. a compressed-video format produced by a codec). AVI is a container format; what's inside may be in a variety of video or audio (or both) stream formats.

[/pedantic]

Thanks, I feel much better now....

OK, is that you, Jason? Only my brother would know how very "me in my other life as an English major grammar nazi" that [pedantic]statement[/pedantic] is! And no, I had no idea "AVI" wasn't a video file format, since it is listed as such, and discussed as such, and universally treated as such everywhere I have seen it used. It's even listed as one of the available options to convert other-format video files to in the video file converter I use to convert Shadowplay's MP4 files to AVI so WLMM can deal with them.

 

On 9/13/2020 at 8:29 PM, ChaosTheorist said:

Since you specify "or affordable", you may be inadvertently limiting your candidates with issues like watermarking that don't apply to registered/paid-for products.

That's either a mean-spirited, deliberate-misinterpretation-based conflation of "free" and "affordable," OR a sincerely-held misunderstanding of the difference between the two words. Assuming the latter case, let me just say that while "affordable" does include shareware or other free software solutions, it is not restricted to them- it means "inexpensive, reasonably priced."

Spoiler

AffordableDef.png

[rant]

There's a huge difference between software like what Pinnacle and Adobe offer (either $350-750 one time or a monthly "rental" that just goes on forever or until your check to the undertaker bounces) and what I would consider "reasonably priced." I am not a business, nor are any of my videos monetized. In fact, most of them are blocked in Germany due to my infatuation with 80's music soundtracks and that country's overzealous music rights police. I only make videos for my own amusement, and for the occasional non-German to enjoy or not as the mood strikes them.

[/rant]

 

The point is that my idea of a reasonably-priced video capture utility would be anything under $40 (US) and any WLMM-replacement video editing/compositing suite would be anything less than around $70 (US). Monthly rental fees would be a deal breaker. The best of all solutions for me might be one integrated utility that did both, in which case "affordable" to me would mean anything in the $80-100 range, depending on how intuitive it was to use.

 

Thanks for your response :classic_heart: . I'll go grab Bandicam (and "Bandicut" if I can figure out what that is :classic_wacko: ) and give it another try.

 

 

 

 

 

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On 9/15/2020 at 5:52 PM, Vyxenne said:

[a lot of stuff, only a fraction of which is quoted below]

 

Quote

What file format is "NVENC?

It isn't; it's NVidia's hardware-assisted encode/decode facility. Bandicam+NVENC outputs standard MP4 containers with either HEVC- or H.264-encoded video; it just does it with a lot less load on the CPU.

 

Since you're into sending stuff to Germany, you might be interested in something they sent back. As I said, a lot less CPU.

 

Quote

OK, is that you, Jason? Only my brother would know how very "me in my other life as an English major grammar nazi" that [pedantic]statement[/pedantic] is!

No, I'm not 'Jason' but yes, I'm fully aware of how easily something like that slides into your soft gooey center; that's why I threw it in there.😈

Well, also because it's correct. Yes, I'm a weenie; we all know that. At least we all know it now.

 

Quote

That's either a mean-spirited, deliberate-misinterpretation-based conflation of "free" and "affordable,"

Ouch! You should know me better than that by now.😧

 

Quote

OR a sincerely-held misunderstanding of the difference between the two words.

OR, it's simply--and helpfully, at least WRT intent--pointing out that the difference spans, in this case, a few dozen dollars; USD39.95, to be precise. The point being that it's entirely "affordable" (since we agree that

Quote

"affordable"....means "inexpensive, reasonably priced.")

to get past the "spoiling the video with watermarks" issue. That's, like, a week of mocha+bagel at Starbucks. Not that I do that, of course....

 

Note that I (reluctantly) refrained from throwing  a completely gratuitous just-for-the-sake-of-stroking-your-inner-grammar-nazi imply/infer pair into this section.

 

Quote

The point is that my idea of a reasonably-priced video capture utility would be anything under $40 (US) and any WLMM-replacement video editing/compositing suite would be anything less than around $70 (US).

Coincidentally, Bandicam sells for the above-mentioned USD39.95. Adding the Bandicut tool brings the total to USD60.95. There no monthly fees.

 

Apropos both your edit-without-creating-garbage and waytoomanybuck-editing-software points, their page that talks about video-editing software starts out:

With Bandicam, the recorded video can be directly edited by Bandicut. Bandicut is an essential program for Bandicammers. It allows Bandicammers to cut parts of video without losing the original video quality. However, if you want to edit the recorded video with professional video editing programs such as Vegas Pro, Adobe Premiere, Camtasia and Pinnacle Studio, you should change the codec settings of Bandicam.

[italics mine, just to set their text apart visually from the rest of this meandering mess informative opus]

 

Round-trip edit with no quality loss: cool. Vegas Pro and friends: not gonna happen.

 

However, Bandicut is only a splitter/splicer; it doesn't do transitions/effects or audio. To overlay audio on the finished video, you'll still need something else.

 

Quote

Thanks for your response :classic_heart:

You're most welcome; sorry you found parts of it objectionable.

 

 

Trivia Q: What's the difference between AVC, H.264, and MPEG-4 Part 10?
A: The spelling. They all refer to the exact same (17 year old) video compression standard.
Same for HEVC/H.265/MPEG-H Part 2. It's 7 years old.
And VVC/FVC/H.266/MPEG-I Part 3, which is new this summer. Though using "Future Video Coding" is a bit ambiguous, since there's always some "future" version on the way.

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On 9/13/2020 at 7:48 PM, Vyxenne said:

I just installed OBS, but it is ALL ABOUT live streaming (errors out because it can't find a browser plugin- I couldn't care less about streaming or a browser plugin! So OBS is a Streamer and not so much just simple vidcap-to-file. Also, it has a pretty steep learning curve, owing mostly to the fact that it is a video STREAMER at heart and so clutters up what should be a simple concept with arcane engineering technobabble when what I want is just "Set your preferred capture-toggle hotkey and tell me the path where I should save the lossless-format files."

Hopefully I'm not late to the party.  Bandicam/cut isn't a bad option (probably the best non-free), but OBS is still worth the effort imho.  OBS is definitely for video capture (just hit record instead of stream on the right), and about as easy as you're going to get from any free software outside of packaged software that comes with an unnecessary capture device.  That said, I understand your reluctance, as it does look overwhelming at first.  If they're already working for you, feel free to ignore the rest of the post.

 

Spoiler

 

Still here?  You asked for it!  I tried to break it down though to make it easy.  You should only need to set a source and specify the quality and file location of your stored video (and maybe one more step for the hotkey).  Here are the main steps:

  1. In the Sources box at the bottom, click the + button, select Display Capture (this selects the whole screen all the time), and click Okay, and Okay again at the next 2 popups.
  2. In Settings>Output> look at the Recording box and set Recording Quality to High or Indistinguishable.  You may also select a folder for your movie in the Recording Path property if it isn't already set.  *More explanation recording options below if you want to know.
  3. In Settings>Hotkeys> (yes this page looks intimidating, but...) just look to the 5th line (Start Recording) and set it to whatever hotkey you want.  I recommend a function key (F9, for instance). It should be locked with the next line so that start and stop are the same, but if it's not locked, you can still set the same key for both.

That's it.  Just make sure OBS is running when you want to record.  

 

*

Spoiler
  • For Recording Quality, I recommend High or Indistinguishable.  Lossless results in huge files, and Same As Stream won't cut it by default since we aren't setting up a stream).
  • For Recording Format, most people will recommend recording in mp4, but if you lose power during your record, your work is lost (same with mov).  The other formats will still retain your work.  As a result if you're posting to Youtube, I recommend flv or mkv.  This is true for all recorders, not just OBS. 
  • As for Encoding - NVENC or x264 - leave it on x264.  I could go into a long diatribe about NVENC (it is getting really good), but the link above was mainly marketing jargon ripped straight from nvidia.  

 

As for a quick and easy free editor, good luck.  However, you might be happy with a cutter instead of editor.  Typically, this will only clip the front and back off the video, but almost all full editors are going to make OBS look easy by comparison.  There are tons of free and easy video cutters though.  Just literally start out with Free Video Cutter to get you started.  That said, if you need more - audio overlays, for instance - you may want start at Filmora.   NCH software has a line products that may also be worth checking out.  They're cheap and - relatively speaking - "easy" for editing, converting, and the like.  They're very similar to AVS products (not a bad choice), but NCH has come through when AVS failed us (did I mention I do a lot of video editing and conversion?).  I'm not thrilled with NCH's licensing policy, but your next best option is probably Adobe Premiere Express.

 

 

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On 9/15/2020 at 5:52 PM, Vyxenne said:

....My whole point is, until I find something to replace Windows Live Movie Maker as a rudimentary compositing tool, I have to have a vidcapper that saves video files in some format that WLMM can use. Shadowplay outputs MP4 files, which I have to convert to AVI for WLMM to process, then recompress to MP4 to make YouTube happy- thereby introducing a lot of quality loss....

So, I hadn't played with WLMM before this, and figured I ought to have at least some idea what you're talking about.

 

I first gave it one of my older FRAPS AVI caps; it choked with

image.png.5857267fb7fe5026566a18c150d0a315.png

 

I then gave it a more-recent FRAPS AVI cap and a Bandicap MP4 cap; both went in just fine.

 

So that's a double "huh?":

1) "Huh? What's wrong with the older FRAPS cap?"

2) "Huh? Vyx's quote appears to say that WLMM won't accept MP4 input. However, it appears that not only will it accept it but, in this case, it suggests converting to MP4 first!"

 

#1 probably won't be answered. Whatever.

 

Based on the extensive research that produced "Huh?" #2, it sounds like you can use your MP4 caps directly in WLMM for captioning/transitions/audio/whatever. Which, if correct, means that it doesn't matter if the capper generates uncompressed or compressed video, since it will be edited directly in either case.

 

Or am I confused?

 

 

OK, that last question was mostly rhetorical....

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On 9/16/2020 at 3:29 AM, ChaosTheorist said:

Note that I (reluctantly) refrained from throwing  a completely gratuitous just-for-the-sake-of-stroking-your-inner-grammar-nazi imply/infer pair into this section.

Such admirable restraint!

 

As it happens, I already had a copy of Bandicam on this machine, so I whipped it out (so to speak) and tested it- it is, indeed, a lot better than NVIDIA's "Shadowplay." So I got rid of "GEForce Experience" *barf* while I was at it. Buh-bye, Shadowplay and your 17 services that ALWAYS run in the background even when I'm in a spreadsheet, or email, or polishing my unpublishable autobio to minimize my culpability for certain ... unfortunate events ... that I enjoyed immensely.

 

On 9/16/2020 at 3:29 AM, ChaosTheorist said:
Quote

Thanks for your response :classic_heart:

You're most welcome; sorry you found parts of it objectionable.

Nuuuu! Not at all! I was merely flexing my moribund vocabulary- I don't get to use it much over on the Nexus SkyUI_SE page where "This s*** don't work! Update please!" is among the more cogent pleas for... something.

 

8 hours ago, Nailish said:

OBS is definitely for video capture [...], and about as easy as you're going to get from any free software

I couldn't get OBS to do anything- no streaming, no recording, nothing. It kept erroring out on "unable to find browser extension" and since I couldn't care less about a video capture utility that needs a browser extension to record local video and save it to my local machine, I uninstalled it. As mentioned above, I tested Bandicam, and it was goodness and light, so I bought the license and now I'm debating whether or not to keep FRAPS on my machine since (AFAIK) it doesn't run any background processes/services, so I don't hate it yet.

 

5 hours ago, ChaosTheorist said:

Vyx's quote appears to say that WLMM won't accept MP4 input.

There's a perfectly good reason that I appear to have said that: Windows Live Movie Maker has to decompress any MP4 file dropped into it, and it is excruciatingly slow, and doesn't want to be minimized while it struggles to decompress the files so I can't check email (etc.) while it gnaws on that bone. My version of WLMM says it's from 2012, but when I try to update it or just install a more-current version, I can't find anything newer- probably because I'm still running Windows 7 on this machine.

Spoiler

MovieMakerVersion.png

I have a very low tolerance for forced OS "updates" and 10,000 Cutesy Widgets™ and "Virtual(ly useless) Assistants" that I can't easily get rid of, instead of an actual computer desktop that waits for me to tell it what I want to do and then just does that. Windows 10 is on my new soon-to-arrive machine, but only because I can't get one with W7. So I know I'll have to spend at least a week getting rid of all of Windows 10's fluffware so I can use it. If you're on W10, you probably have a more recent version of WLMM than mine and maybe it likes MP4s. Mine only likes AVIs. Well, it may like WMVs also- never tried any of those, so I don't know.

 

5 hours ago, ChaosTheorist said:

Or am I confused?

Well, of course you are, you're a man, after all... but that's off-topic at this point. :classic_biggrin::classic_angel:💕

 

 

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4 hours ago, Vyxenne said:

There's a perfectly good reason that I appear to have said that: Windows Live Movie Maker has to decompress any MP4 file dropped into it, and it is excruciatingly slow, and doesn't want to be minimized while it struggles to decompress the files so I can't check email (etc.) while it gnaws on that bone. My version of WLMM says it's from 2012, but when I try to update it or just install a more-current version, I can't find anything newer- probably because I'm still running Windows 7 on this machine....Windows 10 is on my new soon-to-arrive machine, but only because I can't get one with W7. So I know I'll have to spend at least a week getting rid of all of Windows 10's fluffware so I can use it.

Ah, sorry, my bad; your Luddite tendencies had slipped my mind, and thus weren't factored into the equation.

 

Yeah, my WLMM version is whatever was in the MS app store day before yesterday, so it's probably up to date.

 

WRT virtual assistants and fluffware, I have all of the Cortana settings off, so I just don't interact with it. I don't notice a lot of 'fluff', so at least it stays out of my face to the extent that it's there.

 

WRT forced updates, I have feature updates set to the 1-year deferral period, so my year-old 1909 release is good until next April if I choose to wait that long.

 

I suggest giving Win10 a chance. Yeah, Win8 was crap; I worked at MS at the time, and I stayed on Win7 until Win 10 came out. Actually, a year+ after Win10 came out; I think my first Win10 installation was the 1703, or even 1709, release. 1511 was for suckers....

 

It really is time to bid Win7 a fond farewell. Shedding a tear or two for Aero is perfectly OK; I certainly did.

 

 

 

Trivia: Windows Aero should actually be written "AERO", since it's an acronym. A really, really bad acronym.

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8 hours ago, ChaosTheorist said:

your Luddite tendencies had slipped my mind

Hey! How did you know my other machine is a P4 running Windows XP? 🥴 If you're not Jason, I'm sure he put you up to this...

8 hours ago, ChaosTheorist said:

I suggest giving Win10 a chance.

I did give it a chance- I have a (relatively) recent HP Spectre laptop/tablet hybrid running W10, which is how I know how much I hate it. 💀

 

And, as I mentioned, my next machine (Coming Soon™ to a desk-cubby near me) has W10 pre-installed. So I'm going to "give Win10 a chance" 🤮 whether I want to or not.

 

8 hours ago, ChaosTheorist said:

I don't notice a lot of 'fluff'

Right. All the cutesy, self-resurrecting widgets leading to crap I have no interest in but which keep coming back even after I delete them; the "Curated Hourly Compendium of Everything WE Want You To Believe About The World," the incessant push-notifications/ads that can only be abated by disconnecting from the web, the constant nags vis-à-vis how much better Edge is every time I have the audacity to launch Firefox (Oh, the heresy! The temerity of this bitch! Can't we just disable everything on her machine except The Gospel According To Saint William of Redmondia?) All of this somehow escapes your attention. Right. Even if you hadn't already confessed, I would have pegged you (so to speak :classic_angel: ) as a Microsoft guy.

 

8 hours ago, ChaosTheorist said:

Shedding a tear or two for Aero is perfectly OK; I certainly did.

I stumbled upon a website whose main raison d'être seemed to be finding ways to drag Windows 10, kicking and screaming, back to an Aero-like look and feel, including murdering Cuntana (with great prejudice) and blocking all the other crap that MS sees fit to inflict upon its unwilling customers. You can be assured that I plan to become more familiar with these techniques. :classic_biggrin:

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5 hours ago, Vyxenne said:

Right. All the cutesy, self-resurrecting widgets leading to crap I have no interest in but which keep coming back even after I delete them; the "Curated Hourly Compendium of Everything WE Want You To Believe About The World," the incessant push-notifications/ads that can only be abated by disconnecting from the web, the constant nags vis-à-vis how much better Edge is every time I have the audacity to launch Firefox (Oh, the heresy! The temerity of this bitch! Can't we just disable everything on her machine except The Gospel According To Saint William of Redmondia?) All of this somehow escapes your attention. Right. Even if you hadn't already confessed, I would have pegged you (so to speak :classic_angel: ) as a Microsoft guy.

I honestly don't know what you're talking about with those issues, so yes, apparently they have escaped my attention.

 

We're sufficiently out of bounds now that any follow-up should probably be via mail rather than forum, but I'd love to see the widgets, compendia, and pushes that are pushing (sorry--not) your buttons. Because either they aren't happening on my box (on which I spend at least 10 hours a day, pretty much every day), or I'm totally overlooking them, or failing to recognize them, or something.

 

And thanks for the offer, but no, you won't be pegging me. Ever.

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18 hours ago, ChaosTheorist said:

And thanks for the offer, but no, you won't be pegging me. Ever.

*waggles eyebrows salaciously*

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