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Hello everyone!

I have been modding Skyrim for quite some time now, and I have discovered that there is a 255 plugin limit in the game. According to the internet, the best way to get past this is by merging plugins. Unfortunately, the plugins require no errors in order to merge correctly, or so I am told. I have watched several tutorials, and read several too, but there are four errors that I cannot seem to find any information on, or how to successfully solve them.

 

They are as follows:

Warning: Quest Alias not found in
Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000D64 (should be X)
Found a NULL reference, expected: MGEF
Tint layer index not found

 

In general, how does one go about fixing these types of errors? Should I simply just remove the parts of the plugins with these errors?

 

Also just to be clear, I am very good at reading mod pages. I am very aware when a mod author says to not use Tes5edit on their mod, and I always double check the mod pages before I make any changes.

 

Thank you so much, any help is appreciated!

 

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13 minutes ago, Mqinator said:

Warning: Quest Alias not found in

Means there is a reference to an alias that isn't filled properly.  Can be fixed in CK, tough to do in xEdit.

13 minutes ago, Mqinator said:

Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000D64 (should be X)

No idea.

 

13 minutes ago, Mqinator said:

Found a NULL reference, expected: MGEF

Means a spell is referencing nothing instead of something.  Basically, the spell doesn't do anything (at least with that effect).  Could be intentional.

13 minutes ago, Mqinator said:

Tint layer index not found

Not a real issue.

 

13 minutes ago, Mqinator said:

Should I simply just remove the parts of the plugins with these errors?

Really hard to answer without knowing what exactly you are working on.  In general, I just wouldn't merge those specific plugins.  Merging should be type with type and unscripted whenever possible.  For instance:

  • Merge armor and weapon mods into a single esp.
  • Merge location mods into a single esp.
  • Merge aesthetic mods into one esp.

etc.

 

You don't have to MERGE ALL THE THINGS.

 

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2 hours ago, Mqinator said:

Hello everyone!

I have been modding Skyrim for quite some time now, and I have discovered that there is a 255 plugin limit in the game. According to the internet, the best way to get past this is by merging plugins. Unfortunately, the plugins require no errors in order to merge correctly, or so I am told. I have watched several tutorials, and read several too, but there are four errors that I cannot seem to find any information on, or how to successfully solve them.

 

They are as follows:

Warning: Quest Alias not found in
Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000D64 (should be X)
Found a NULL reference, expected: MGEF
Tint layer index not found

 

In general, how does one go about fixing these types of errors? Should I simply just remove the parts of the plugins with these errors?

 

Also just to be clear, I am very good at reading mod pages. I am very aware when a mod author says to not use Tes5edit on their mod, and I always double check the mod pages before I make any changes.

 

Thank you so much, any help is appreciated!

 

merge plugins as a neat feature, you use "Find Errors" function, click on big magnifying glass, and then any mod showing error you can right click and click fix errors. It only fixes a few specific type of errors, certainly not an end all. 

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4 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

Means there is a reference to an alias that isn't filled properly.  Can be fixed in CK, tough to do in xEdit.

Got it, I will look into that. Do you know if these are generally an issue? Some of the mods I am seeing these pop up in are mods I have played through fully before with no issues whatsoever. Out of the four errors I am seeing these are by far the most concerning to me.

 

 

4 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

Really hard to answer without knowing what exactly you are working on.  In general, I just wouldn't merge those specific plugins.  Merging should be type with type and unscripted whenever possible.  For instance:

  • Merge armor and weapon mods into a single esp.
  • Merge location mods into a single esp.
  • Merge aesthetic mods into one esp.

Got it, that makes a lot of sense! Thank you!

 

 

3 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

The other alternative is to exercise self-restraint and not hit the plug-in limit in the first place. ?

This is a very valid point. I honestly had no idea this plugin limit existed despite modding Skyrim for years. I had the bright idea this time to try and go all out and get an ultra modded Skyrim going and ended up here. To be honest, I think I can merge enough mods to stay within the limit rather easily at this point, but I am rather concerned about some of these errors (especially the quest alias thing) for stability stake. Even if I do not merge mods with errors, are errors like these an issue to stability?

 

 

2 hours ago, Uncle64 said:

It is not that hard do do, chose what mods you want for your play. Perhaps you dont need that Fancy female follower that have No lines and are dull but looks good.

Delete those followers those have no soul.

I am not a fan of those types of follower mods. I actually am only running three followers at the moment and they are all custom voice acted and come with quests. The majority of my mods either add content to the game, or change game play mechanics.

 

 

2 hours ago, stingray1995 said:

Bear in mind that 'Warnings' and 'NULL References' are different from 'Errors' - don't quote me here, but I'm pretty sure these are still mergeable - but I'd be pulling them out anyway. 

 

The ones you definitely can't merge with are 'cannot be resolved' errors - Mator's Merge Plugins has a feature in which you can attempt to 'bulk' fix many errors in plugins; a very useful feature.

Got it, so should I be doing anything at all about null errors? Are they harmless, should I just let them be? Thankfully, I already went through and fixed all the ones where the error could not be resolved. I will also look into that feature in Mator's plugin, I was not aware it existed.

 

 

2 hours ago, Heroine of the Night said:

merge plugins as a neat feature, you use "Find Errors" function, click on big magnifying glass, and then any mod showing error you can right click and click fix errors. It only fixes a few specific type of errors, certainly not an end all. 

I will look into this, thank you!

 

 

 

As for the disagreements that seem to have broken out in this thread, I do just want everyone involved to know this. I know we may have very different ways of solving our modding problems, and very different opinions on things, but I welcome all of them. I really appreciate the fact that all of you took the time to drop by and help me out! Thank you!

 

Thank you all for your help, I will continue to look into this. If anyone has any other suggestions, or tips please let me know! I may have years experience modding Skyrim, but I am very new at this checking for errors and merging plugins thing. Thank you all again!

 

-Mqinator

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Mqinator said:

Got it, I will look into that. Do you know if these are generally an issue? Some of the mods I am seeing these pop up in are mods I have played through fully before with no issues whatsoever. Out of the four errors I am seeing these are by far the most concerning to me.

Would need to know the mod we are talking about.

 

19 minutes ago, Mqinator said:
4 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

The other alternative is to exercise self-restraint and not hit the plug-in limit in the first place. ?

This is a very valid point.

No, it really isn't.  I'm running around 3000 mods (all but 120 or so are merged).  There is no need for restraint in that sense.  Aside from disk space, there's no practical limit to how many follower/armor/weapon/spell/hair/eye/etc mods you can have.  Only mods that add some need for processing should be restricted in the number you're using (like 50 followers all in Sleeping Giant Inn would be an issue inside the inn), and even then, if the modders are smart about where/when they put that overhead, there's still no issue.

19 minutes ago, Mqinator said:

Even if I do not merge mods with errors, are errors like these an issue to stability?

Can't say without knowing the specifics of the mods in question.

19 minutes ago, Mqinator said:

Got it, so should I be doing anything at all about null errors?

Depends on the mod, but generally will be safe to use.

 

Sometimes authors put those there intentionally with the Null pointer to be filled later (usually by script).  Other times it is a legitimate mistake, but probably not harmful.  Probably.

 

19 minutes ago, Mqinator said:

As for the disagreements that seem to have broken out in this thread

Traveled here from other threads.  Has nothing to do with you.

 

19 minutes ago, Mqinator said:

Thank you all for your help

You're welcome.

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-I would say with mods that everybody uses and by accomplished mod authors can probably be ignored, on my end mods like Usleep,CRF,Zaz, have errors, and I don't care. I have 7 mods out of currently 238 with errors and I tested with new character over 5 hours last 2 days, think i got level 12, no ctds,no problems.

 

-If i release a mod, and it has errors you should be very afraid, Arthmoor and Usleep/CRF, wouldn't worry about it. 

 

 

-Facetint error, never actually seen it crossover into game, I think it's mostly a false flag

 

 

 

-I have seen tons of errors like this, I would say if you have an error like that and you dont know of any issues it is crearting, it's probably intentional,

12 hours ago, Mqinator said:

Found a NULL reference, expected: MGEF

 

 

 

-I run mod in MergePlugin, if mod as error and merge plugin won't clean it, I do some quick research on error and I look at mod author and size/scope of mod. Small basic follower mod for User3920 that only adds a follower to 1 cell with errors probably just gets thrown out on spot. If its a bigger mod, from accomplished mod author it's probably fine, maybe look at mod post page. 

 

 

-Dirty edits, those are errors that can slip in on otherwise well built mod but should be cleaned,maybe minus GDO(Guard dialogue overhaul) Merge plugins fix errors function will always take care of that one for you. 

 

-Overview: Big mod, trusted author, probably good.     I release mod with errors, report that to me and stay away from that mod! "I say screw that mod, man" 

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23 hours ago, Seijin8 said:
23 hours ago, Mqinator said:

Got it, I will look into that. Do you know if these are generally an issue? Some of the mods I am seeing these pop up in are mods I have played through fully before with no issues whatsoever. Out of the four errors I am seeing these are by far the most concerning to me.

Would need to know the mod we are talking about.

I picked out a few examples out of the Tes5edit Error Check log. How should I go about fixing this, do they even need fixing?

 

Spoiler

[04:15] Checking for Errors in [25] FNIS.esp
[04:15] FNIS_Q2 "FNIS Quest 2" [QUST:250022EB]
[04:15]     QUST -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 030022EB (should be 020022EB )
[04:15] FNIS_Q "FNIS Quest" [QUST:25000D62]
[04:15]     QUST -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 03000D62 (should be 02000D62 )

[01:35] Checking for Errors in [0D] arnima.esm
[01:36] ArnimaCastOnPowerAttackKillSpell "Cast spell on power attack kill" [SPEL:0D1974DD]
[01:36]     SPEL \ Effects \ Effect \ EFID - Base Effect -> Found a NULL reference, expected: MGEF
[02:28] still checking for Errors in [0D] arnima.esm
[02:32] ArnimaDenizeQuestDVDenizeZenalta [DLBR:0D2CAD3C]
[02:32]     DLBR \ SNAM - Starting Topic -> Found a NULL reference, expected: DIAL

[03:15] Checking for Errors in [3B] FNISspells.esp
[03:15] FNISSPDoNothingPack [PACK:3B00EAC0]
[03:15]     PACK \ Conditions \ Condition \ CTDA - CTDA \ Parameter #1 -> Found a NULL reference, expected: ALCH,AMMO,ARMO,BOOK,COBJ,FLST,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLI,MISC,SCRL,SLGM,WEAP

[03:08] Checking for Errors in [30] Apocalypse - The Spell Package.esp
[03:10] WB_C100_ConjureDremoraAssassin_Actor "Dremora Assassin" [NPC_:30073058]
[03:10]     NPC_ \ Tint Layers \ Layer \ TINI - Tint Index -> <Tint layer index 51 not found in DremoraRace "Dremora" [RACE:000131F0]>
[03:10] WB_C100_ConjureWeepingDaedra_Actor "Weeping Daedra" [NPC_:3008FDF5]
[03:10]     NPC_ \ Tint Layers \ Layer \ TINI - Tint Index -> <Tint layer index 35 not found in DremoraRace "Dremora" [RACE:000131F0]>
[03:10]     NPC_ \ Tint Layers \ Layer \ TINI - Tint Index -> <Tint layer index 51 not found in DremoraRace "Dremora" [RACE:000131F0]>

[07:23] Checking for Errors in [5B] Helgen Reborn.esp
[07:31] BalokGuardsRadiant05ToKorst [PACK:5B0DEC04]
[07:31]     PACK \ Package Data \ Data Input Values \ Value \ PLDT - Location \ Location Value -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "BalokRadiant05 "Changing of the Guard" [QUST:5B023591]">
[07:31] BalokGuardsRadiant04ToKorst [PACK:5B0DEC03]
[07:31]     PACK \ Package Data \ Data Input Values \ Value \ PLDT - Location \ Location Value -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "BalokRadiant04 "Changing of the Guard" [QUST:5B023590]">
[07:31] BalokGuardsHerdRadiant03ToKorst [PACK:5B0DEC02]
[07:31]     PACK \ Package Data \ Data Input Values \ Value \ PLDT - Location \ Location Value -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "BalokRadiant03 "Changing of the Guard" [QUST:5B02358F]">
[07:31] BalokGuardJotoRadiant02ToKorst [PACK:5B0DEC01]
[07:31]     PACK \ Package Data \ Data Input Values \ Value \ PLDT - Location \ Location Value -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "BalokRadiant02 "Changing of the Guard" [QUST:5B02358E]">

[04:49] Checking for Errors in [33] WetandCold.esp
[04:52] _WetApplyGearColdQuest [QUST:330BAA2C]
[04:52]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Aliases \ Alias \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "_WetApplyGearColdQuest [QUST:330BAA2C]">
[04:52]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Aliases \ Alias \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "_WetApplyGearColdQuest [QUST:330BAA2C]">
[04:52]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Aliases \ Alias \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "_WetApplyGearColdQuest [QUST:330BAA2C]">
[04:52]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Aliases \ Alias \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "_WetApplyGearColdQuest [QUST:330BAA2C]">
[04:52]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Aliases \ Alias \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "_WetApplyGearColdQuest [QUST:330BAA2C]">
[04:52]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Aliases \ Alias \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "_WetApplyGearColdQuest [QUST:330BAA2C]">
[04:52]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Aliases \ Alias \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "_WetApplyGearColdQuest [QUST:330BAA2C]">
[04:52]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Aliases \ Alias \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "_WetApplyGearColdQuest [QUST:330BAA2C]">
[04:52]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Aliases \ Alias \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "_WetApplyGearColdQuest [QUST:330BAA2C]">
[04:52]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Aliases \ Alias \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "_WetApplyGearColdQuest [QUST:330BAA2C]">
[04:52]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Aliases \ Alias \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "_WetApplyGearColdQuest [QUST:330BAA2C]">
[04:52]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Aliases \ Alias \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "_WetApplyGearColdQuest [QUST:330BAA2C]">
[04:52]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Aliases \ Alias \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "_WetApplyGearColdQuest [QUST:330BAA2C]">
[04:52]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Aliases \ Alias \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "_WetApplyGearColdQuest [QUST:330BAA2C]">
[04:52]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Aliases \ Alias \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "_WetApplyGearColdQuest [QUST:330BAA2C]">
[04:52]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Aliases \ Alias \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "_WetApplyGearColdQuest [QUST:330BAA2C]">
[04:52]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Aliases \ Alias \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "_WetApplyGearColdQuest [QUST:330BAA2C]">
[04:52]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Aliases \ Alias \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "_WetApplyGearColdQuest [QUST:330BAA2C]">
[04:52]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Aliases \ Alias \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "_WetApplyGearColdQuest [QUST:330BAA2C]">

[00:21] still checking for Errors in [06] Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp
[00:23] MS11 "Blood on the Ice" [QUST:0001F7A3]
[00:23]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Scripts \ Script \ Properties \ Property \ Value \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "MS11 "Blood on the Ice" [QUST:0001F7A3]">
[00:23]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Scripts \ Script \ Properties \ Property \ Value \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "MS11 "Blood on the Ice" [QUST:0001F7A3]">
[00:23]     QUST \ VMAD - Virtual Machine Adapter \ Scripts \ Script \ Properties \ Property \ Value \ Object Union \ Object v2 \ Alias -> <Warning: Quest Alias not found in "MS11 "Blood on the Ice" [QUST:0001F7A3]">

23 hours ago, Seijin8 said:
23 hours ago, Mqinator said:
On 1/20/2020 at 6:56 PM, Grey Cloud said:

The other alternative is to exercise self-restraint and not hit the plug-in limit in the first place. ?

This is a very valid point.

No, it really isn't.  I'm running around 3000 mods (all but 120 or so are merged).  There is no need for restraint in that sense.  Aside from disk space, there's no practical limit to how many follower/armor/weapon/spell/hair/eye/etc mods you can have.  Only mods that add some need for processing should be restricted in the number you're using (like 50 followers all in Sleeping Giant Inn would be an issue inside the inn), and even then, if the modders are smart about where/when they put that overhead, there's still no issue.

Wow, that is impressive. I start having stability issues when I get around 250. Do you have any advice for making an ultra modded Skyrim that is stable?

 

16 hours ago, Heroine of the Night said:

-I would say with mods that everybody uses and by accomplished mod authors can probably be ignored, on my end mods like Usleep,CRF,Zaz, have errors, and I don't care. I have 7 mods out of currently 238 with errors and I tested with new character over 5 hours last 2 days, think i got level 12, no ctds,no problems.

 

-If i release a mod, and it has errors you should be very afraid, Arthmoor and Usleep/CRF, wouldn't worry about it. 

 

 

-Facetint error, never actually seen it crossover into game, I think it's mostly a false flag

That makes a lot of sense as the more popular mods would also have people who encountered bugs and errors already if they existed, and they most likely would post about them. I have Googled errors I have found in the more popular mods and have come back with nothing, so it makes sense that they most likely are OK. I have not been able to encounter the face tint issue in game either, so I am assuming it is a false flag as well. The other errors I am a bit concerned about though.

 

Thank you all for your help! I really appreciate it!

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9 hours ago, Mqinator said:

How should I go about fixing this, do they even need fixing?

  • Don't touch FNIS and don't merge it.
  • I have no idea what arnima is.  Seems like a follower and combat mod? Beware using multiple combat-affecting mods at once -- they don't mix well.  They tend to trigger on scripted "OnHit()" events, and those don't stack.  OnHit() fires once only and if multiple mods need it, then they tend to fight with each other.  This can be a big problem because OnHit() events can fire multiple times in a second, and you don't need that much of a tug-of-war going on under the hood.
  • Don't touch or merge FNIS Spells
  • Apocalypse is one of EnaiSalon's mods.  If it has "errors", they are likely intentional.  In this case it is tint mask errors, and those aren't real errors, more of a hiccup in xEdit's filing system.  Not a problem, leave it be.  As a note, I wouldn't merge Apoc.  You can do it, but that mod is updated semi-regularly and other magic mods sometimes search for it by name.
  • Not sure about Helgen Reborn, but it is scripted and probably shouldn't be merged.
  • Wet and Cold should be fine as-is, but again, heavily scripted and I wouldn't merge it.
  • I would leave any errors in USLEEP alone.  Don't merge USLEEP in any case.

A few merging "guidelines":

  • Don't merge heavily scripted mods.  If in doubt, look in the mod folder under scripts and see how many there are and how large the files are.  Two or three 1kb scripts is probably okay.  Thirty scripts that range from 1kb to 160kb, I'd let it be its own things.
  • I wouldn't merge mods that have an MCM -- can cause buggy behaviors.
  • Avoid merging mods that are regularly updated.  That means your merge will be old, and re-merging it tends to shift form IDs which can easily mess up your game.
9 hours ago, Mqinator said:

I start having stability issues when I get around 250.

The number of mods generally isn't the cause of stability issues - it is the types of mods and what they are doing that create stability problems.

 

Mods you can have a near unlimited number of (and should be merged):

  • Armor/clothing/Weapons
  • Makeups/Warpaints
  • Hair/Eyes (note that merging these may break follower dependency chains - fairly easy to fix, but may just be creating more work for yourself).
  • Magic/Spells mods (note that some other mods may be looking for them by name and will fail to find them if they are merged.  May or may not matter.  As mentioned above, I would leave Apocalypse out, but if you are using More Apocalypse, that one is good to merge)

Mods that should not be merged:

  • Mods that many other mods are dependent on (USLEEP, commonly used hair and eye mods)
  • Combat mods (unless you take the time to look under the hood, these usually don't play nicely together.  They can sometimes be made to, but it usually isn't worth doing).
  • Mods with complex MCMs (if the MCM only exists to turn the mod on or off, this is probably okay to merge).
  • Mods that use "GetFormFromFile" or similar indirect dependency mechanisms (hard to know what these are without digging through the scripts.  Mod authors that do this: chesko (Campfires/Frostfall), isoku (Wet and Cold), many Sexlab mod authors).  Note that even if these break, that won't usually be game-effecting.  These are usually minor compatibility functions to make things work more smoothly.  It shouldn't lead to a crash.

Mods you should make sure you use no more than one of (not because they are bad, but because they don't mix well):

  • Combat Mods (things that change the feel/pace/damage output/location damage/combat behaviors/AI/etc)
  • Civil War mods (The Civil War functions in the game are very twitchy and two mods pulling on those same strings will unravel it.  Blame Bethesda here.)
  • Dragon Behavior Mods (Multiple mods trying to tell the same thing what to do tend to have issues)
  • Weather Overhauls (typically incompatible)

Best advice on a stable Skyrim is to start stable (low mod load) and build up from there.  Use benchmarking tools to see what each new batch of mods does (The STEP guide has a good pattern to follow for this). Add 10 mods that don't effect the same things, play up to level 10 or 15, note any issues that come up and see how it feels.  If it is good, see if you can fix the noted issues, or decide to live with them.  Add ten more, rinse, repeat.  Again, weapon/armor mods aren't usually an issue here.

 

Way too often people pile mods onto their load order and then try to stabilize it from there.  Damage is already done and finding the source of the problem is very difficult at that point.  A mental image would be loading things into the arms of someone carrying stuff.  Once they've fallen down (load order is too much), removing items one at a time and expecting them to stand back up under that load isn't very helpful.  Better to start small, load up from there, and when you see them tilting, remove whatever you just added.

 

Just about any combination of compatible mods can be made stable so long as your system can handle it. (Which oddly is not really related to system performance.  Better/newer computers don't necessarily do this a lot better than older systems.)

 

Finally, if you find a mod that causes issues, it may not really be that mod.  It is likely a mod interaction that is exposing an issue.  Sure, removing the mod may make the symptoms disappear, but the problem may still be present.  Just avoid the idea that "adding Mod X broke things, so Mod X is a bad mod".  Especially avoid telling the author of Mod X that their mod broke your game.  (I don't get the impression you are someone who would do that anyway.)  That typically isn't the case.  Its likely just that Mod X and Mod Y are fighting over something, or Mod X needs Object A that Mod Y removed or screwed with.

 

EDIT: Avoid mods made before 2015 and not updated since.  The tool sets and game patches weren't in good shape until 2015 - anything predating that is highly suspect.

 

Hope some of this helps.  Good luck!

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10 hours ago, Mqinator said:

[04:15] Checking for Errors in [25] FNIS.esp
[04:15] FNIS_Q2 "FNIS Quest 2" [QUST:250022EB]
[04:15]     QUST -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 030022EB (should be 020022EB )
[04:15] FNIS_Q "FNIS Quest" [QUST:25000D62]
[04:15]     QUST -> Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 03000D62 (should be 02000D62 )

I don't have these errors on my end, I also don't have the most updated FNIS(7.5)   

I trust that mod author, might be acceptable error with 7.5 version

 

Do you have FNIS 7.5 installed?, are you on SE? My only experience with errors like that are not from errors but rather something I noticed when converting mods from esp to esm, which clearly isn't what happened on your end, but a lot of entries with id# similar to say,020022EB getting changed to 030022EB when making esp to esm change. I would loosely suspect similar thing might occasionally occur when you have LE mod converted to SE, Do you have the right FNIS installed in regards to LE or SE? 

 

 

This is the only thing I try to figure why errors are generating. Outside of this one suspicion, I think Seijin8 last post is spot on, basic blueprint for merging. 

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On 1/22/2020 at 8:51 AM, Seijin8 said:

The number of mods generally isn't the cause of stability issues - it is the types of mods and what they are doing that create stability problems.

First of all, thank you so much for your help. I really appreciate it. What about Quest mods, do too many quest mods cause stability issues? I have a lot of them. Should I be limiting how many quest mods I have installed?

 

On 1/22/2020 at 8:51 AM, Seijin8 said:

I have no idea what arnima is.  Seems like a follower and combat mod? Beware using multiple combat-affecting mods at once -- they don't mix well.  They tend to trigger on scripted "OnHit()" events, and those don't stack.  OnHit() fires once only and if multiple mods need it, then they tend to fight with each other.  This can be a big problem because OnHit() events can fire multiple times in a second, and you don't need that much of a tug-of-war going on under the hood.

Sorry about that, I meant to say what Arnima is, since it has a different name than the mod it is from, in my post with the error log, but I seem to have forgotten. Arnima is the Beyond Reach mod, a mod that adds some of High Rock to Skyrim, and a bunch of quests. It is one of my favorite mods!

 

On 1/22/2020 at 8:51 AM, Seijin8 said:

Just about any combination of compatible mods can be made stable so long as your system can handle it. (Which oddly is not really related to system performance.  Better/newer computers don't necessarily do this a lot better than older systems.)

Here is a random question that may or may not be related to this. My Skyrim seems pretty stable at the moment. I do not have any crashes when loading saves, or crashes from just playing the game too long. I also have a fairly consistent frame-rate, and almost everything seems to work fine.

 

Every now and then, in very populated, or busy areas, I experience a crash when I activate something. For example, earlier today I was in Markarth, and I opened the wait menu and waited 24 hours. First of all, the wait menu seemed to lag out, and resulted in significant lag after I was done waiting. This cleared up fairly quickly, but when I tried to open the menu again it crashed. This is not just a problem with the wait menu, I have had similar experiences with talking to people, opening my inventory, and even getting mail from the courier. Again, it is not constantly linked to one action, but it seems to randomly strike, but only when I activate something. Most of the time all these are fine and do not result in a crash, it seems to just be an issue in the more populated places in the game.

 

What do you make of this? To me this seems like a memory issue. Perhaps something somewhere is running out of memory?

On 1/22/2020 at 8:51 AM, Seijin8 said:

EDIT: Avoid mods made before 2015 and not updated since.  The tool sets and game patches weren't in good shape until 2015 - anything predating that is highly suspect.

This is extremely helpful advice! I got rid of a lot of a bunch of mods released before 2015 and it seems to have solved a lot of the other issues I was having! Thank you so much!

 

On 1/22/2020 at 8:51 AM, Seijin8 said:

Especially avoid telling the author of Mod X that their mod broke your game.  (I don't get the impression you are someone who would do that anyway.)

You are correct, that is something I do not do. Mod authors are great, they create extraordinary creations simply out of passion and love for a game. They then generally release these creations to the public for free! They should not have to deal with people being mad at them about issues people run into using these creations that people literally got for free! This is especially true with mod conflict issues. There are so many Skyrim mods a mod author cannot simply just make a mod compatible with everything without spending significant amounts of time to do so. To me, it is more than enough that they made their mod in the first place!

 

If I cannot get a mod to work with my load order I either figure out a way to make it work (with the help of Google), or I simply remove it. I do not send people angry messages.

On 1/22/2020 at 9:46 AM, Heroine of the Night said:

Do you have FNIS 7.5 installed?, are you on SE?

I am using FNIS 7_5, the latest version available. I am currently modding Legendary Edition. I also do have the correct FNIS installed for Legendary edition. I checked that as well! I am not sure what is causing my FNIS errors in Tes5Edit, but all my animations seem to run fine.

 

 

 

Here is another general question. How bad is it to have errors in the papyrus log? When I start a new game papyrus just floods the first part of the log with errors and warnings. After that, everything is fine. Is this bad?

 

Thank you all for your help, I really do appreciate it! You people are the best!

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5 hours ago, Mqinator said:

How bad is it to have errors in the papyrus log

I'm the least qualified person typing at you on this one, no question.  What i have read constantly is errors are going to be in papyrus. I got a new save character pushed to lvl 24, no ctds,I just looked at my 4 papyrus logs and the 2 I reviewed both had minimal errors, seen errors with 1 mod that seems like its been working fine in game for some time.(SL Defeat).

 

 

 

 

I seen you ask Seijin8 about too many quest mods, when i first loaded Bruma mod into full load order, my rig slowed down,very playable,my fps wasnt really taken an extra hit from it but my load times did take a hit. It was far from game breaking but if i had turned around and installed on top of that, a couple more of the script heavy sex mods,wet and cold, frostfall my game probably would of got worse. 

 

Lets say your base is good, ini's are good and machine is close to as good as it can be set up

 

Heavy textures, a bunch of new items that are displayed,extra npcs with AI,scripts that fire every x amount of seconds opposed to specific things that would call on them. I play pick and choose on these, I like a lot npcs with AI(Inconsequential NPCs,ETAC, I like all the other stuff too, but thats my #1. I don't refrain that hard on that front, I like textures looking pretty good so I texture everything but in 1k to 2k(compromise),I like SL mods, that hits me with some scripts,So I have SL scripts, decent to good textures on everything,tons of npcs and towns and villages that also have extra clutters. so I avoid vanilla script heavy mods(personal preference, not interested enough with those mods with everything else im loading) That where i compromise the most. 

 

Depending on setup and time and knowledge you can probably have whole enchilada, My approach of 1k 2k textures and no heavy scripted vanilla mods has worked great for me. It's my opinion you are staying in safer waters when you don't max out all those aspects of the game. My thing as always been, what happens when I get a character to lvl 144? is my game going to be able to handle it?

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Mqinator said:

do too many quest mods cause stability issues?

Well... yes and no.  Nothing about a quest mod inherently makes it a stability issue... BUT a lot of quest mods tweak objects, positions, NPCs, etc in ways that inadvertently cause instability.  For instance, say one quest mod adds an AI Package that has an NPC standing next to a specific bench when the quest starts.  If another mod moved the bench or disabled it or changed it into something else, then that could cause problems.  If another mod has the actor doing something else and has set a higher priority, then the quest may not trigger correctly or an AI routine might fail to work right, and this can (rarely) cause crashes.

6 hours ago, Mqinator said:

Arnima is the Beyond Reach mod

Okay.  Heard of it but haven't used it.  The author's credentials are good though, so I wouldn't worry about it.

6 hours ago, Mqinator said:

Every now and then, in very populated, or busy areas, I experience a crash when I activate something. For example, earlier today I was in Markarth, and I opened the wait menu and waited 24 hours. First of all, the wait menu seemed to lag out, and resulted in significant lag after I was done waiting. This cleared up fairly quickly, but when I tried to open the menu again it crashed. This is not just a problem with the wait menu, I have had similar experiences with talking to people, opening my inventory, and even getting mail from the courier.

Hmmm... at a guess, that is a mod that is adding an option branch or pop-up to an activator.  I get this sometimes with a homebrewed mod that allows for locking doors.  If things get slow and I move too fast, the door dialogue may briefly show up when looking at things that aren't a door.  A lot of mods do this, so it is hard to say which it might be, or even if that is actually the issue.  iNeed is an example of a mod that does this.

 

As a matter of modding, there are very few good ways of adding new message/menu options for activators.  Every method for doing this has problems.

6 hours ago, Mqinator said:

What do you make of this? To me this seems like a memory issue. Perhaps something somewhere is running out of memory?

Skyrim has issues with memory allocation for sure.  I'm not sure that is the case here, but it very well could be.  Having a lot of AI around can make it worse, and there isn't a great remedy.

6 hours ago, Mqinator said:

Here is another general question. How bad is it to have errors in the papyrus log?

Depends on the error, but generally not an issue.  A lot of mods throw "errors" when they can't find something, but in many cases, that is just a script doing an "if/elseif" line and not finding those conditions.

 

For instance: "If PlayerRef.GetDistance(akSpeaker) >= 256 ;do something, ElseIf akSpeaker.GetDistance(Alias_Dragon) < 5000; do something else."

That line will throw an error if neither condition is met, or if the Alias for the dragon isn't filled, or if the akSpeaker isn't identified.  It isn't a real error.  In a lot of cases you will see something like "unable to assign none to variable", or something similar, and those are typically harmless.

 

One thing to note is that papyrus logging should be turned off for normal play.  It does add a bit of overhead to write the log to file, and with the aforementioned memory issues, I'd leave it off once the bug-hunting is done.

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2 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

One thing to note is that papyrus logging should be turned off for normal play.

Is this an ini setting you turn off, and if your having problems then you enable it? I think I turned mine on via ini some time ago.

 

 I'm a big believer in keeping you CPU Background in check, thank you for mentioning this, I never even look at those logs. 

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4 minutes ago, Heroine of the Night said:

Just spent an hour reading about papyrus settings, seen some stuff. Thought about adding some lines to then tweak, but... No Break,No Fix. Keeping things put, minus turning off logs. 

 

 

BethINI is the best tweak package.  Doesn't add anything that can mess up your game, mostly just organizes things.

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Idk, I see a lot of things on that mod page that looks like settings I already have setup through steam,I like my settings, as far as some of the ini setting it looks like I either have the settings and in some cases I believe I have a few more, and I have faith in my settings, some of them i spent time tweaking. 

 

As far as reconfiguring how it is displayed, who cares right?Does reconfiguring boost performance?, I am almost never looking at my ini settings, it's not like my Load Order which I'm always working out of. 

 

I did download cause i always see other people recommend it so it has been on my list to investigate,I'll read some more on it, i did read something about it removing useless entries and or bad entries so i want to spy on that some more but I don't want any of my setting touched.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

Well... yes and no.  Nothing about a quest mod inherently makes it a stability issue... BUT a lot of quest mods tweak objects, positions, NPCs, etc in ways that inadvertently cause instability.  For instance, say one quest mod adds an AI Package that has an NPC standing next to a specific bench when the quest starts.  If another mod moved the bench or disabled it or changed it into something else, then that could cause problems.  If another mod has the actor doing something else and has set a higher priority, then the quest may not trigger correctly or an AI routine might fail to work right, and this can (rarely) cause crashes.

Thank you for your reply. Are quest mods mergeable or should I avoid merging them? A big portion of my mods are either quest or new lands mods. Can these be merged?

 

Also I am seeing a lot of people say that follower mods should be merged. There are two types of follower mods though, those which just add a follower, no special voice lines or quests, and those which add followers with custom voice lines and quests. I use the later. My follower mods are voice acted and add quests. For example, two of the mods I am using are Mirai - The Girl with The Dragon Heart, and Lucien. Can I, and should I merge these two mods?

16 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

Skyrim has issues with memory allocation for sure.  I'm not sure that is the case here, but it very well could be.  Having a lot of AI around can make it worse, and there isn't a great remedy.

Hmm... OK. I will keep messing with things to see if I can fix this issue. Worst case scenario I can remove some mods.

 

16 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

Depends on the error, but generally not an issue.  A lot of mods throw "errors" when they can't find something, but in many cases, that is just a script doing an "if/elseif" line and not finding those conditions.

 

For instance: "If PlayerRef.GetDistance(akSpeaker) >= 256 ;do something, ElseIf akSpeaker.GetDistance(Alias_Dragon) < 5000; do something else."

That line will throw an error if neither condition is met, or if the Alias for the dragon isn't filled, or if the akSpeaker isn't identified.  It isn't a real error.  In a lot of cases you will see something like "unable to assign none to variable", or something similar, and those are typically harmless.

 

One thing to note is that papyrus logging should be turned off for normal play.  It does add a bit of overhead to write the log to file, and with the aforementioned memory issues, I'd leave it off once the bug-hunting is done.

I will turn it off once I am ready to play normally. I do not think it is an issue since the game runs perfectly fine besides this and my activation crash thing. I will continue to monitor this moving forward to see what changes, but currently the errors only pop up when the game first loads all the mods in my load order (and every time I load a save after).

 

3 hours ago, Heroine of the Night said:

Idk, I see a lot of things on that mod page that looks like settings I already have setup through steam,I like my settings, as far as some of the ini setting it looks like I either have the settings and in some cases I believe I have a few more, and I have faith in my settings, some of them i spent time tweaking. 

 

As far as reconfiguring how it is displayed, who cares right?Does reconfiguring boost performance?, I am almost never looking at my ini settings, it's not like my Load Order which I'm always working out of. 

 

I did download cause i always see other people recommend it so it has been on my list to investigate,I'll read some more on it, i did read something about it removing useless entries and or bad entries so i want to spy on that some more but I don't want any of my setting touched.  

I would say if your game is running fine and is stable it probably is not worth it to experiment with other settings anyway. No sense in fixing what is not broken. If you do start to change any settings I would recommend backing up everything first, especially if you are mid-playthrough. This way if things get worse as opposed to better you can easily revert any changes made.

 

 

 

Thank you all for your help, I really appreciate it!

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28 minutes ago, Mqinator said:

Thank you for your reply. Are quest mods mergeable or should I avoid merging them? A big portion of my mods are either quest or new lands mods. Can these be merged?

 

Also I am seeing a lot of people say that follower mods should be merged. There are two types of follower mods though, those which just add a follower, no special voice lines or quests, and those which add followers with custom voice lines and quests. I use the later. My follower mods are voice acted and add quests. For example, two of the mods I am using are Mirai - The Girl with The Dragon Heart, and Lucien. Can I, and should I merge these two mods?

Both can be merged, though I wouldn't be so quick to do so with Quest mods that carry many scripts.

 

Followers, I would generally merge unless they had associated quests with lots of scripts or were updated regularly.  The way merging works is it reshuffles form IDs for most of the mods, and that is no problem for a new game, but once you are running if something is updated you can end up having to decide to A) not update or B) risk re-merging and lose everything associated with that character, break any running quest scripts, etc.  (Definitely never do B btw.)

 

So my recommendation would be: merge away on anything not updated since 2017 or so, don't merge anything updated semi-regularly.  Anything in between is gray area - merge if you need the space, otherwise no.

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14 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

Both can be merged, though I wouldn't be so quick to do so with Quest mods that carry many scripts.

 

Followers, I would generally merge unless they had associated quests with lots of scripts or were updated regularly.  The way merging works is it reshuffles form IDs for most of the mods, and that is no problem for a new game, but once you are running if something is updated you can end up having to decide to A) not update or B) risk re-merging and lose everything associated with that character, break any running quest scripts, etc.  (Definitely never do B btw.)

Got it! OK, I have a few more questions and then that is all the questions I think I have.

 

First, let's talk about followers. I read on a few different posts that people were having issues with custom voiced followers losing their voice once merged. If this happens, is there a fix or would that just be a mod not to merge?

 

Also, I am reading that sometimes merging mods messes with the leveled lists (I think someone mentioned it on this thread at some point, I thought it was you but I cannot seem to find it anymore otherwise I would have quoted it. It is possible I just completely overlooked it.) I read that people make bashed patches of the mods they are planning to merge first, and then load the patch after the merged mod. Is this a good way to fix this, or is there a better way?

 

My last question is regarding BSA files, because I am finding conflicting information on this. Do I need to unpack them to merge a mod?

 

Thank you so much for all your help, I really appreciate it!

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53 minutes ago, Mqinator said:

My last question is regarding BSA files, because I am finding conflicting information on this. Do I need to unpack them to merge a mod?

 

 

Pretty sure the answer is yes, unless the tool you are using can do it as part of the merge, the xedit merge script does not, or at least I do not remember it doing so, while the stand alone merge tool can if set up to do so and from what i remember that requires another program to be correctly installed so that it finds the bsa unpacker.

 

Though after testing there is nothing stopping you building a new bsa for the merge.

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5 hours ago, Mqinator said:

First, let's talk about followers. I read on a few different posts that people were having issues with custom voiced followers losing their voice once merged. If this happens, is there a fix or would that just be a mod not to merge?

The way I merge for custom voices is different and somewhat complex.  So I don't run into that problem, but I can't offer much useful advice on that.

 

(Long story short, I put the voice into a master file for voices, and then the follower into an esp, linked to the master.  Both are technically merges, but don't follow the normal process.  Sometimes this requires re-conditioning the dialogue lines away from FormID references.  Often isn't worth the trouble.)

 

I wouldn't recommend merging those.  (There really aren't that many.)

 

(As a side note, if you merge most followers, armors, locations, etc, you will probably have more than enough headroom for the other mods.)

 

5 hours ago, Mqinator said:

Also, I am reading that sometimes merging mods messes with the leveled lists (I think someone mentioned it on this thread at some point, I thought it was you but I cannot seem to find it anymore otherwise I would have quoted it. It is possible I just completely overlooked it.) I read that people make bashed patches of the mods they are planning to merge first, and then load the patch after the merged mod. Is this a good way to fix this, or is there a better way?

Um, again, haven't had that issue, though I do that differently.  The Bash-then-Merge approach seems to me that it won't fix anything because the Bash is referencing files that no longer exist.  I also recall using Merge Plugins for a few merges and it handles leveled lists just fine.  (On the other hand, I manually curate those after the fact, so... I might be misremembering.)

5 hours ago, Mqinator said:

My last question is regarding BSA files, because I am finding conflicting information on this. Do I need to unpack them to merge a mod?

I'm fairly certain Merge Plugins can handle those.  Even if it fails, you can always recover since it doesn't delete anything.

4 hours ago, Varithina said:

Pretty sure the answer is yes, unless the tool you are using can do it as part of the merge, the xedit merge script does not, or at least I do not remember it doing so, while the stand alone merge tool can if set up to do so and from what i remember that requires another program to be correctly installed so that it finds the bsa unpacker.

...On the other hand, Varithina's approach to it dodges the issue in its entirety, so may want to go that route.

 

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  • 1 year later...
On 1/20/2020 at 5:27 PM, Mqinator said:

Warning: internal file FormID is a HITME: 04000D64 (should be X)

 

Pardon if someone already answered this, but I didn't read every post, only did a quicksearch for HITME prior to posting this

 

I think I figured this one out... went about converting some oldrim plugins to form 44 for SSE via Creation Kit... came across one mod that has an .esp as master... ESPs cannot be loaded into creation kit as masters for updating form versions, masters must be ESM... therefore, creation kit doesn't see the required master and will load the plugin you're trying to convert without it, screwing with the numbering of the forms in the plugin, as it's now missing a master... as the plugin I'm trying to update contains like 1500 of these errors after conversion to form 44, and the esp called as master also calls other esps as master, there's no easy method for me to update unless I want to rebuild the plugin from scratch, basically...

 

TLDR, I think the plugin you're seeing these errors in was improperly edited in Creation Kit, missing the masters during edits

 

Nothing like learning stuff on your own lol

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