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Anyone else not pre-ordering elder scrolls 6

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9 minutes ago, Ernest Lemmingway said:

I'm fully expecting Bugthesda to pull a Blizzard regarding mods as early as Starfield. By forcing all mods to (legally) go through BethNet and/or the CC. In doing either they could lay full legal claim to any work submitted the same way Blizzard has with WC3 Reforged maps. That would be the Kiss of Death for the game and likely the company as a whole but they don't seem to realize just how much customers hate the CC alone. And unfortunately there are enough NPCs buying from it to shelter them from the reality.

I wonder if we are in an echo chamber.    My son played FO4 without any mods and just shrugged when comparing my FO4 (only 273 mods) to his.   FO4 is no longer on his hard drive nor does he have an interest to play it again.   So from the game companies point of view, both he and I are "equal" (though yes, he earned money to buy FO4 through the time honored way of mowing my lawn, having birthdays and guilt tripping grandparents who forget his Bday since we are geographically separated from the grand parents).   We are either modders or people who use mods and I wonder if we make up a significant portion of FO4s user base when it first came out.  

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2 minutes ago, Alkpaz said:

 

It does kinda tie back to this: 

 

Yep, I am gonna continue to blame AOL for ruining the internet (it used to be only for university research, porn and trading pirated music (yes, I am choosing to ignore all the illegal shit going in in the 90s wrt to copyright violations), and console gamers for ruining computer gaming. 

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7 minutes ago, steelpanther24 said:

Yep, I am gonna continue to blame AOL for ruining the internet (it used to be only for university research, porn and trading pirated music (yes, I am choosing to ignore all the illegal shit going in in the 90s wrt to copyright violations), and console gamers for ruining computer gaming. 


*̴͆̅̾̈́̓ͨ̓͊͏̩͔̳̹̯̪̦s͓̞̀̚ãͯ͊͜͟͏̗̺̝̖͉̣̦d͙̯̪̼͈̟̟̭͋ͮ̓̀ͣ̓̈̈ ͙̭̗̩̩͎̳̙̉͛́ͣ͢d̴̨̢͇ͩ̓̆̊͗͌ͭͬi͚̗̤̣̎̽̀ä̢̺̘̣̖ͬ̕ͅl̵̵̡̟̺̅͋-̷̷̽̿̈ͩͦ͢ͅu̴ͧ͛̾̀̋͏̣̹̭̠͚͟p̩͚̝̟̬͍̙̈̅̀̆̾̔̎̓ ̻̒ͧ̎ͥ͂̌n̸̸͇͚͗̿̊͒o̷̡͐̇̓͒͏̙̘̣͕̹ĩ̷̡̩͎͕̳̜̤͕ͨ͌͛ͬ̒s͕͍̳͙͎̣̠͐̈͛̒̓́ͯͮ̔e̼̣͈̞̪͌͑̔͗̉ͫ̚s̶̛̟͉̪̹͚͂͌̋̂̑*̴̡̙̮̘̹̤̣̖ͨͫ̀̍

 

Edit: Googled the dial-up sound.

It's somehow worse every time I get curious and hear it.

Which happens every few years.

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1 minute ago, Alkpaz said:

I don't think Otaku was saying that at all. He was pointing out that some people view games differently. 

I think the point was that people are complacent, they just take what they get and don't really care to protest when it's low quality.

Beth games have become stagnant because the fanbase seems happy with whatever they get, Beth still makes money after all, maybe less now but still.

Complacency isn't a new thing either though, that's just how it is. There's no voting with your wallet when the majority is happy with "better than nothing."

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11 hours ago, megamantaray said:

You're working entirely under the assumption that the things you thought would be in the game were directly advertised.

They weren't. Your entire argument is false advertisement and there wasn't any. I'll attach a link to a Polygon(ugh) article.

https://www.polygon.com/2016/11/30/13791782/no-mans-sky-false-advertising-results

All you have shown me here is your inability to read carefully.

 

ASA studied specific advertisements. They did not address the statements made by authors, etc. that led to the problem.

 

You can keep huffing and puffing fan-boy smoke about this. But, you already admitted that the game was a disaster on launch and you don't seem to deny that it was a national story due to the features everyone thought it would have (and were not in the game). If you think that is not grounds for a false advertising case you are nuts.

11 hours ago, megamantaray said:

A company doesn't have to spoonfeed you, you're an adult with money, you're meant to spend it by being a smart consumer, do you need someone to hold your hand to buy groceries bro?

You are simply ignorant of how free markets work. The burden is not completely on the buyer. It's equal for both parties. It is not the job of the buyer to be smart enough to figure out that a seller is a bumbling idiot. You already acknowledged here that Shawn was a bumbling idiot. You just choose to forgive him because you later became a fan-boy of the game. Great! I get to make my own choices. Adult remember?

11 hours ago, megamantaray said:

Again that's all on you not being an observant consumer, also stop comparing software to cars and shovels.

I will make any comparisons I need to. I think they have been quite useful at illustrating how poor your arguments are.

11 hours ago, megamantaray said:

I can't believe you made fun of me for "self-serving" arguments before. Your lack of critical thinking got you a broken piece of software and it took you 3 days to realise it wasn't working right. That's your own fault.

I can't believe you have the gall to keep writing insults toward me after I have demolished around 10 of your major points so far. What is left is a giant ball of emotional mush. Any logic left in there "bro"?

11 hours ago, megamantaray said:

because you "don't have time" and have "better games" yet you spend your time arguing here.

Thats right! Even arguing here sounds more exciting to me than revisiting No Man's Sky which you apparently have a perma-boner over.

11 hours ago, megamantaray said:

Continuing to shit on the game at this point is fruitless, you don't have an argument to make

I've already made a clear argument and nothing you have written has damaged it in the slightest. I'm not "continuing to shit on" the game. One shit was enough. Now I am just shitting on your silly grunts. :D

11 hours ago, megamantaray said:

You're like a child that just bought a huge action figure only to realise it was a statue with a base and no moving parts. It's all on the box, boy.
Luckily, because NMS is not an action figure and it's software, the company could decide to give the statuette some moving parts at no extra charge.

The irony of you comparing me to a child. Only a child gets as offended as you over insults to a video game. :D

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19 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

-derp-

Ok boomer.

All you did was prove my point. You haven't demolished anything you've just been talking about shovels and how inept you must be to take 3 days to realise one is broken.

You literally went with the trend and decided to blame a person who could barely speak in front of cameras for your own wrong interpretations of what was said.

Unlike the rest of the hype train though now you're too stuck up to admit it, that's an adult choice and I'll acknowledge that much.

I've been doing nothing but giving you objective facts, including an article that "demolishes" your claim on their being legal ground for a lawsuit.

That you're a person who doesn't do research before making a purchase, a person that levies their responsibilities on anyone but themselves for what they spend their money on is something else I'll happily acknowledge. You've reduced yourself to storytelling and saying I'm upset or offended now, typical.

That's okay, more adult decisions. We're done here.

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Nah. it's pretty on point. You have a pathological inability to understand that any context can exist outside your own opinion, which would be fine, except A your opinions have yet to built around factual evidence outside of one poll in this particular instance and B you're still butthurt that when Bethesda does it makes money and when you do it you're being a predatory modder, in which context neither of you have the high road.

 

Bethesda would be making quite a bit more money if they didn't expect whatever they make to sell regardless of context, and maybe even you would too.

 

Modding and Retail alike requires both modder/creator and customer/player, and someday you'll figure that out; and anyone genuinely shocked by 76's quality simply did not pay attention to anything but marketing.

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5 hours ago, megamantaray said:


*̴͆̅̾̈́̓ͨ̓͊͏̩͔̳̹̯̪̦s͓̞̀̚ãͯ͊͜͟͏̗̺̝̖͉̣̦d͙̯̪̼͈̟̟̭͋ͮ̓̀ͣ̓̈̈ ͙̭̗̩̩͎̳̙̉͛́ͣ͢d̴̨̢͇ͩ̓̆̊͗͌ͭͬi͚̗̤̣̎̽̀ä̢̺̘̣̖ͬ̕ͅl̵̵̡̟̺̅͋-̷̷̽̿̈ͩͦ͢ͅu̴ͧ͛̾̀̋͏̣̹̭̠͚͟p̩͚̝̟̬͍̙̈̅̀̆̾̔̎̓ ̻̒ͧ̎ͥ͂̌n̸̸͇͚͗̿̊͒o̷̡͐̇̓͒͏̙̘̣͕̹ĩ̷̡̩͎͕̳̜̤͕ͨ͌͛ͬ̒s͕͍̳͙͎̣̠͐̈͛̒̓́ͯͮ̔e̼̣͈̞̪͌͑̔͗̉ͫ̚s̶̛̟͉̪̹͚͂͌̋̂̑*̴̡̙̮̘̹̤̣̖ͨͫ̀̍

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF2v32xCD0Y

 

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Nope. Bethesda can't be trusted and my guess is that pre-order rewards will be barely worth it. You'd probably get something significantly better in a week after the release, since modding community is spectacular. 

 The only company which has my trust with pre-orders is Paradox Interactive. I ALWAYS know what I'm buying. On top of having very fair prices and buuuuuunch of free content along with a free patch. 

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@steelpanther24 Modding is a huge part of Bugthesda games, going back as far as 2002 when Morrowind came out. It could be argued they're the only reason the company has stayed afloat, much less become so popular. This isn't even mentioning the bugs the company refuses to fix in each and every game that modders do. Or the fact that for so many people it's only because of mods that they buy Bugthesda games. They're the only reason people even still talk about older titles. Your son is a case in point: no mods, no reason to keep playing.

 

There's also the vitriol surrounding the Creation Club and what it did to the modding community. Not to mention that Bugthesda remade Skyrim just to market mods to console players via BethNet and the CC. No company goes through the hassle and expense of setting up the infrastructure and negotiating the requisite deals with other companies for such unless they expect a major profit. Just how profitable that's been is something no one outside the company knows, though.

 

On an unrelated note, I just sighed when I heard they were reusing Gamebryo for Starfield and when I heard rumors they'll do the same for TES VI--assuming they survive that long, given everything going wrong with them and the video games industry as a whole. Look at the limitations of it in Oldrim! No underwater combat where every previous title could handle it without issue and every modders' attempt to add it back in just causes the engine to crash, for example. Or how resource intensive it is.

 

This is an engine that should have been retired after Oblivion. Instead they keep working on the body while the transmission falls apart from neglect. Could it be saved if they went back and optimized the core code? I don't know. And it's academic since they've proven unwilling or unable to do just that. I seriously doubt they will now despite everything that's gone wrong and continues going wrong with 76 that highlights how ancient Gamebryo is and how badly it needs to be either rebuilt from the ground up or just outright replaced.

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The gamebryo engine has nothing to do with the issues and limitations that plague Bethesda's games. Saying that they're using the same engine since Morrowind is like saying Unreal uses the same engine since the very first unreal game, or like saying valve still uses the engine from Half-Life 1. Engines get constantly reworked and are expanded upon, it isn't a new engine just because you slap another number on it or re-brand it. Likewise, the problems won't magically go away if they switch engines. The core is that these are conscious decisions made by the people designing and developing the game, sometimes due to budget or time constraints, sometimes because they simply couldn't be bothered to fix it because it works well enough. There's also the fact that, contrary to popular belief, Bethesda's target audience for their games since Oblivion has been consoles, not PC. Mods aren't that big of a factor for the company when it comes to money, because the majority of the sales happen on consoles, not on PC, and consoles only have gotten very limited mod support recently. Just because there's a huge modding community behind Bethesda this doesn't mean that this is where the interest lies if other venues are more profitable for the company. It obviously follows that many technical limitations are based on the limitations of the consoles - it's not about what the devs want to do, it's what they can do without the consoles melting.

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1 hour ago, Ernest Lemmingway said:

@steelpanther24 Modding is a huge part of Bugthesda games, going back as far as 2002 when Morrowind came out. It could be argued they're the only reason the company has stayed afloat, much less become so popular. This isn't even mentioning the bugs the company refuses to fix in each and every game that modders do. Or the fact that for so many people it's only because of mods that they buy Bugthesda games. They're the only reason people even still talk about older titles. Your son is a case in point: no mods, no reason to keep playing.

 

There's also the vitriol surrounding the Creation Club and what it did to the modding community. Not to mention that Bugthesda remade Skyrim just to market mods to console players via BethNet and the CC. No company goes through the hassle and expense of setting up the infrastructure and negotiating the requisite deals with other companies for such unless they expect a major profit. Just how profitable that's been is something no one outside the company knows, though.

 

On an unrelated note, I just sighed when I heard they were reusing Gamebryo for Starfield and when I heard rumors they'll do the same for TES VI--assuming they survive that long, given everything going wrong with them and the video games industry as a whole. Look at the limitations of it in Oldrim! No underwater combat where every previous title could handle it without issue and every modders' attempt to add it back in just causes the engine to crash, for example. Or how resource intensive it is.

 

This is an engine that should have been retired after Oblivion. Instead they keep working on the body while the transmission falls apart from neglect. Could it be saved if they went back and optimized the core code? I don't know. And it's academic since they've proven unwilling or unable to do just that. I seriously doubt they will now despite everything that's gone wrong and continues going wrong with 76 that highlights how ancient Gamebryo is and how badly it needs to be either rebuilt from the ground up or just outright replaced.

 

You know this isn't a thing. Gamebryo is an engine and with other companies that engine is DX12 capable and compatible. The reason animations suck in Beth and animated things can't be used correctly is because Beth doesn't know how to use the animation system in the engine, period. The behavior system are just for that; behaviors. They aren't supposed to be used for animations, they're supposed to be used for directing and enabling animation arrays. That's on Beth, and other companies using gamebryo don't have any of the weird shit going on with their games that Beth does.

 

Beth literally has open and free access to the right people, they can literally head down to Texas and get every hard-lock issue with their engine fixed within less than a year AND be cutting edge with models and graphics within that same time. But they aren't going to spend the money and their devs aren't going to attempt to learn the correct way to do things with an engine they don't even have to lease anymore.

 

The problem is between the keyboard and chair, not what's currently active in ram.

 

 

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1 hour ago, GrimReaper said:

It obviously follows that many technical limitations are based on the limitations of the consoles - it's not about what the devs want to do, it's what they can do without the consoles melting.

Next gen of consoles is due out this year's holiday season and the specs sound impressive.

 

PS-5 

CPU: 8 core/16 threads at 3.2Ghz with a Zen2 architecture.
GPU: Navi-based with AMD next-gen features at 12.6 to 14.2 teraflops.
Memory: 24GB total with reportedly 20GB GDDR6 at 880GB/S and 4GB DDR4 for the operating system.

Backwards compatibility with PS4 games and PSVR hardware.
3D audio.
8K TV support. (??!!)

 

Xbox One X

Almost the same.

 

So Beth really can't claim there are "technical limitations" to consider for consoles anymore. Their list of potential excuses grows shorter and shorter by the day. Meanwhile, CDPR is making the best rpgs and running circles around Beth. The only thing Beth did better than them is their mod support, and that's prolly coming to an end as we know it.

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9 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Next gen of consoles is due out this year's holiday season and the specs sound impressive.

 

PS-5 

CPU: 8 core/16 threads at 3.2Ghz with a Zen2 architecture.
GPU: Navi-based with AMD next-gen features at 12.6 to 14.2 teraflops.
Memory: 24GB total with reportedly 20GB GDDR6 at 880GB/S and 4GB DDR4 for the operating system.

Backwards compatibility with PS4 games and PSVR hardware.
3D audio.
8K TV support. (??!!)

 

Xbox One X

Almost the same.

 

So Beth really can't claim there are "technical limitations" to consider for consoles anymore. Their list of potential excuses grows shorter and shorter by the day. Meanwhile, CDPR is making the best rpgs and running circles around Beth. The only thing Beth did better than them is their mod support, and that's prolly coming to an end as we know it.

and then comes still in addition the many many exclusive title only for consoles, where PC players look into the tube! :classic_wink:

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5 hours ago, winny257 said:

and then comes still in addition the many many exclusive title only for consoles, where PC players look into the tube!

The Halo series on Xbox is the only exclusive I ever cared about. I can wait out the rest until they come to pc. Besides, we have all the mods. :cool:

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14 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Next gen of consoles is due out this year's holiday season and the specs sound impressive.

 

PS-5 

CPU: 8 core/16 threads at 3.2Ghz with a Zen2 architecture.
GPU: Navi-based with AMD next-gen features at 12.6 to 14.2 teraflops.
Memory: 24GB total with reportedly 20GB GDDR6 at 880GB/S and 4GB DDR4 for the operating system.

Backwards compatibility with PS4 games and PSVR hardware.
3D audio.
8K TV support. (??!!)

 

Xbox One X

Almost the same.

 

So Beth really can't claim there are "technical limitations" to consider for consoles anymore. Their list of potential excuses grows shorter and shorter by the day. Meanwhile, CDPR is making the best rpgs and running circles around Beth. The only thing Beth did better than them is their mod support, and that's prolly coming to an end as we know it.

This wasn't meant as a defense for Bethesda, far from it actually. I just said that the issue is within Bethesda itself - their goals, priorities and such - not with the engine. I'd rather have them be overly ambitious and fail every now and then instead of them playing it safe with the console crowd and embracing microtransactions, live-service shit and other means for the holy grail 'continuous revenue streams'. The time when people with a passion for video games made games for other enthusiasts is long over, now it's about the suits wanting to fill their pockets by any means necessary. If they could get away with not making games at all they'd do it, it's a necessary evil for them to make a product that people actually want to buy. Today, a game is ideally barely fun enough to hook you in and frustrating enough that you'll spend money to skip the boring parts.

 

That being said, the power of the latest console generation always sounds impressive, especially on paper when they're not even out yet. PC hardware, however, doesn't have these release cycles, a console is always limited because it can't be upgraded. But yeah, that's precisely why TES 6 is taking so long, Bethesda has said this much themselves, they're waiting for the new generation of consoles because 'the tech for what we want to do with our next game isn't available yet' or something along those lines.

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1 hour ago, GrimReaper said:

The time when people with a passion for video games made games for other enthusiasts is long over

There are still some out there. Don't be such a fatalist- it'll make you old and bitter. Beth got quite alot of negative backlash for 76, so surely Beth will try to do a pretty decent job with Starfield as atonement. Of course, have to wait a year or so for them to patch some of it and modders to fix the rest (???). But, if the core game is solid, things will go much smoother all the way round and we might have faith in them restored. :star:

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Indies are still cool and passionate, we can always hope they keep making good decisions.

A lot of them have turned to the dark but there's still very lovely people making very good games that aren't committee driven, approved and curated revenue streams.

That said I can't imagine anyone drove, approved or curated 76... that'd be silly....... right?

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Fallout 76 was a disaster waiting to happen from concept to launch. Bugthesda's secondary studio chosen for the title, the blatantly obvious failure of using the same Gamebryo engine for an online multiplayer without properly testing and addressing issues before selling the product (I say blatantly obvious; 76 being an asset flip from FO4 and all), the marketing was so over-hyped and sugar-coated at E3 I could feel the bile at the back of my throat, and the thoughts I had at the time of what online anticheat (you know, the coding that a usual MMO would employ) they'd use turned out to be ....NONE at ALL.

 

The amount of actual development time was waayyy too short to trust a 'finished' product, especially one that attempted an online multiplayer with the modified Gamebryo, and I practically warned a few friends of mine not to waste money on it.

 

And now I hear Starfield and ES6 are going to try to (again) patch over the G- engine when the next gen consoles appear. I'd facepalm hard enough to dent my skull, but I'm not into self abuse. Which also means, my 'Don't buy this crap until you KNOW it's not crap!' motto still stands.

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17 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

CPU: 8 core/16 threads at 3.2Ghz with a Zen2 architecture.

Both using Ryzen 7 3700X with 2 cores disabled for the PS5 and for the Xbox Series X 2 cores locked which can be unlocked later via OS update.

17 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

GPU: Navi-based with AMD next-gen features at 12.6 to 14.2 teraflops.

Both using a retooled RX 5700

17 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Memory: 24GB total with reportedly 20GB GDDR6 at 880GB/S and 4GB DDR4 for the operating system

This is not actually accurate it's 16GB GDDR6 for both and 8GB DDR4 for the PS5 the Xbox Series X is shooting for 16GB DDR4.

 

But these specs are just from the Dev Kits. Whether the consoles come out that way remains to be seen Sony will probably boost their system RAM to 16GB just like they did with the PS4 when they boosted it from 4GB DDR3 to 8GB DDR3 to match the Xbox One.

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I didn't buy/preorder Fallout 76 and I saved myself the headache of its impending disaster.  Going to do the same until genuine unpaid customer reviews start rolling in for Elder Scrolls 6.  Still worried that they might try to fully implement the Creation Club and stifle out 3rd party modding. 

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