Jump to content

Recommended Posts

14 minutes ago, Baltasarr80 said:

The Humiliation(comment) system could take place in the fame framework. I think that would be the most appropriate place to be

 

imo fame is its own beast into itself. humiliation doesn't need to be fame-based or -fame-driven, even though some parts could be. i think Lupine has the right idea though, a separate beast of its own. developing this though as a plan/outline is going to be interesting, and possibly very complicated. i'll say this though, there is no way that whatever is developed, will appease everyone, as humiliation is different for everyone out there. just going to have to find a compromised common ground, and then have his own special brand of twistedness added in lol

Link to post
59 minutes ago, YojimboRatchet said:

i hope you are right about the dialog mods

I base my theory on the release of SKVA, which is not perfect, but is likely to continue to improve and is already sufficient to voice a mod if you are patient with it and design appropriately.

 

I posted a roadmap for DF for 2021 that trims things back from 2020.

I want to finish off this release, which is going OK again, but assuming that gets finished the next thing for DF would be a less-random way to get deals and then radiant quests.

 

The less-random deals thing replaces the idea of introductory deals etc, and would have the follower offer deals in a semi-random order that sort of makes sense and tries to build up gradually and avoid annoying deal conflicts. It's pretty easy to do in the new deal setup, and I might even make it part of the forthcoming release.

 

I currently need to test all the "completed" deals, and then do the main mechanics for the three deals that aren't done (milking, keys, skooma). Actually, most of the skooma deal is done I think, but I need to check it. Milking and keys aren't done at all though.

 

And yes, the "slave sale" mechanic requires the potential follower faction level to be '1' exactly. Fixed that and added support for mercenaries too.

 

There will likely be a test version without those two final deals in it available tomorrow, for people who can make a convincing case that they'll actually run it, test and report issues. Previous betas have been a complete fail, as nobody reported glaring problems, though a couple of people did provide some useful feedback.

Link to post

I'd like to suggest a different implementation for the "tell people you're a slut" deal (you know, in case you have the time and inclination).

 

The current implementation (I believe) is that every time you  initiate a conversation there's a chance that you'll get a conversation option that's "I'm a slut..." that overrides all other conversations until it's taken. This produces a few issues:

  1. The follower will tell you to call yourself a slut even if they're half-way across Skyrim, waiting at some other location. This isn't super realistic.
  2. Sometimes you get the instruction to say you're a slut several times in a row before you can carry on with the actual conversation. Repeating the same action several times is somewhat immersion breaking IMO, given it's the exact same lines you're repeating.
  3. It can interact badly with the forced conversation from wearing a gag (the whole "I'm sorry, what did you say"/ "You use gestures to make yourself understood") and/ or the conversation loop from Radiant Prostution ("follow me"/ "take off clothes"/ "collect money"), where the game starts having CTDs every few minutes (or more frequently). I'm guessing it's some sort of unfinished/ broken conversation leaking memory or something and once you get several of those you're in trouble. I'm playing SE, in case that makes a difference - but it's consistent enough that I've disabled the slut deal altogether.

My suggestion:

  1. When the deal is active, put the option to say you're a slut into the regular conversation options so you can choose to use it at any time.
  2. If the follower puts his hand on your shoulder and you don't take the option you get punished (debt added/ lives lost/ quick Slap That Ass spank from the follower/ whatever).
  3. Alternately, you could get rid of the hand on the shoulder and just add a counter. Tell X people that you're slut every so often (maybe same interval as debt is calculated), and be punished if you fall short.
  4. If you're feeling fancy, you could include a proximity check for the follower so they don't put their hand on your shoulder if they're far away and/ or that voluntary confessions of sluthood do not count. If combined with #3, that would mean that the player would have to make sure to stay near enough to make sure their confessions counted toward the limit.

The potential advantages as I see them are that it's more immersive when there's an actual choice to comply or not and, hopefully, it avoids getting the game into a state where CTDs are happening all the time.

 

Just some thoughts, in case they're useful to you. Thank you for your work on this great mod :)

Link to post
On 1/18/2021 at 11:43 PM, Lupine00 said:

Lozeak had some idea for a "humiliation system", though it was more internal narration rather than NPC comments.

The code that's there for it doesn't/wouldn't work, so it would need to be substantially reworked to make it possible to finish it or get any value out.

 

I think the idea of NPC comments belongs in another mod; some kind of reputation/dialog mod.

I also think dialog mods are going to have a good year.

Let's see? :) 

NPC comments does feel unnecessary for this mod, but one thing I've always wished was included is more comments from your follower regarding your current situation, specifically in a way that's aware of your current deals.

 

For example, the DF could comment after the "I'm a slut" event triggers ("Does it thrill you to tell people what you really are?"), when naked with the piercing deal active ("Those piercings really suit you, pet"), when at high debt ("My patience isn't limitless, you know"), etc. Awareness of Sexual Fame would also be nice, but definitely secondary to deal comments.

 

I've been playing around with it a bit in my game, but the problem is that you would have to add a lot of potential lines for it to feel natural, especially since many would have to be locked behind specific deals.

Link to post
6 hours ago, Anunya said:

My suggestion:

  1. When the deal is active, put the option to say you're a slut into the regular conversation options so you can choose to use it at any time.
  2. If the follower puts his hand on your shoulder and you don't take the option you get punished (debt added/ lives lost/ quick Slap That Ass spank from the follower/ whatever).
  3. Alternately, you could get rid of the hand on the shoulder and just add a counter. Tell X people that you're slut every so often (maybe same interval as debt is calculated), and be punished if you fall short.
  4. If you're feeling fancy, you could include a proximity check for the follower so they don't put their hand on your shoulder if they're far away and/ or that voluntary confessions of sluthood do not count. If combined with #3, that would mean that the player would have to make sure to stay near enough to make sure their confessions counted toward the limit.

This would certainly remove a problematic design element that leads to conflicts with quest mods.

 

I like the existence of a choice ... at least for characters with sufficient willpower.

 

The proximity "bug" has annoyed me on many occasions, but for some reason I forgot about fixing it.

That can (and should) be fixed regardless of any other change.

 

I'm not sure how to present the "hand on shoulder" information using this approach.

 

I could potentially rewrite the entire slut mechanic so it works like a bunch of new deals that require you to do something N-times per day.

In that case, the follower would not "put a hand on your shoulder" at all, but instead require you to tell N different NPCs that you're a slut per day.

 

That isn't exactly what Anunya suggested, but it avoids worrying about how to know if the follower is expecting you to say it this time, and gives the player more freedom. For example, they could be tricky and avoid telling males and instead only tell females. It seems perfectly legitimate to exploit the deal terms if the deal allows it, and there could turn out to be subtle consequences for it.

Also, I have this code pattern for some new deals already, so it's just cut+paste for a lot of it.

What if you don't talk to anyone at all, other than the follower? I think, probably, that can be overcome somehow - you get a pass if you didn't spend any time in town, for example.

 

The downside to that approach is that it requires some non-trivial work, as does any other significant mechanical change to slut deal.

Just fixing the proximity bug would be a much smaller piece of work.

 

Swapping to a case-by-case choice without swapping to a different way of measuring compliance would be a middle-ground, but needs to inform the player of the "hand on shoulder" event, and that's most easily solved by using pop-up message boxes ... which I dislike - though SLS seems to get away with them - I find they aren't very immersive. Overall, I think the pop-ups would be too frustrating if they came up as often as they'd need to.

 

I guess it could be done by adding some text after the "I'm a slut topic" such as "[Your follower has their hand on your shoulder]".

And doing it like that would allow the choice and retain the punished for each non-compliance approach.

It requires you to spot the option showing up in a potentially large list of stupid topics though.

Spoiler

My current game has serious topic spam, introduced by a variety of mods, from BFW, SLS, MME, SWL, SD+ ... there's just too much of this nonsense and I'm starting to think I need to patch those mods so they are less annoying.

 

And then you talk to an innkeeper and it's even worse.

 

MME is particularly lame, in that it puts the dialog on everyone, but only a tiny number of NPCs respond to it. I could happily disable that on everyone except vendors.

SD+ wants me to enslave myself to everyone ... and I guess I could easily gate that on DF willpower in my own game, as the _DWill global is injected and won't even create a dependency).

 

SWL is very tiresome. It desperately needs a way to toggle "working" on/off.

I forgot why I got rid of it before, and this is one reason.

 

BFW is just plain bugged and adding a ... dialog to everyone that pointlessly results in them searching me for stolen goods.

Not sure why it's doing that, may be an override issue.

 

 

 

So, it's a choice between "fix proximity bug" and leave everything else as it is, or do a lot more.

 

Doing it all seems great, but inevitably means that something else is pushed back.

So for now, I think I'll just worry about the bug, and put the rework on the roadmap as a "maybe", back behind radiant quests.

 

Link to post
45 minutes ago, Aldid said:

I've been playing around with it a bit in my game, but the problem is that you would have to add a lot of potential lines for it to feel natural, especially since many would have to be locked behind specific deals.

 

If the challenge here is writing the lines rather than the implementation, I can pitch in.  I've done games writing earlier in my career. @Lupine00 - if you need a few hundred lines for the various permutations of DFC comments let me know and I'll be happy to help. If not, that's cool too :)

Link to post
1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Doing it all seems great, but inevitably means that something else is pushed back.

So for now, I think I'll just worry about the bug, and put the rework on the roadmap as a "maybe", back behind radiant quests.

 

 

Totally legit. Your mod, you set the priorities. Thanks for taking it under consideration.

 

... and yeah, all the other stuff on the road map is nice and juicy too :)

Link to post
3 hours ago, Aldid said:

I've been playing around with it a bit in my game, but the problem is that you would have to add a lot of potential lines for it to feel natural, especially since many would have to be locked behind specific deals.

DF already adds a lot of dialog load with all the hellos.

Adding a massive load of extra hellos would be a bad idea.

 

Using periodic events and say() is another way to do this, and the conditions could be done more efficiently.

However, say() carries its own risks. Two mods try to say() at once and you probably CTD.

We need that dialog broker that Monoman was talking about.

Link to post
16 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

DF already adds a lot of dialog load with all the hellos.

Adding a massive load of extra hellos would be a bad idea.

 

Using periodic events and say() is another way to do this, and the conditions could be done more efficiently.

However, say() carries its own risks. Two mods try to say() at once and you probably CTD.

We need that dialog broker that Monoman was talking about.

Thanks for the warning! I know very little about modding, so I've just been stumbling around trying to pick up some basics.

Link to post
12 hours ago, Baltasarr80 said:

one question though ... if your follower will sell you will he leave you in the moment of selling or stick around?

What do you think should happen and why?

 

I could see either case, but they wouldn't stay and then buy you back. That would be silly.

If there's an auction they should probably wait for it to finish so they can get their money.

If they just sell you, they should probably leave immediately.

Link to post
11 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I could see either case, but they wouldn't stay and then buy you back. That would be silly.

 

totally agree here. selling the PC just to buy them back would be ridiculous. the ONLY way i can see this being a viable option, would be IF the follower wanted to tease the PC to degrade them even more, maybe scaring them a bit as to "what could happen" if they didn't behave properly. show them how worthless and disposable they are to the follower. that would be the only way it would or could work in my opinion.

 

11 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

If they just sell you, they should probably leave immediately.

 

not necessarily. if they sell you, there could be a bit of a scene where the PC is properly handed off, and then maybe a bit of degradation from the follower to the PC as they leave.

Link to post
14 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

So, it's a choice between "fix proximity bug" and leave everything else as it is, or do a lot more.

I've added a theoretical fix for the proximity bug.

The hand on shoulder cannot fire unless the follower is in the same cell, and less than 200 distant.

This can let you dodge the mechanic a bit, but that might be a feature.

 

New deal dialogs appear to be working as intended.

I think I fixed a long-standing issue with modular deals sometimes assigning no deal for no obvious reason; a lot of clean-up there anyway.

 

In theory I just need to do the remaining deals and do a lot of testing. It's testable now, for anybody who is serious about testing it. I wouldn't advise using it in your playthrough and the sort of tests required involve a lot of waiting, sleeping, checking timers behave properly, etc. Trying with mods in/mods out, all that sort of thing. Not much fun.

Link to post
On 1/17/2021 at 8:01 PM, Abbadons_Corruption said:

Had a bit of a bug after I paused the mod to use Cursed Loot's safe word option. The game started to think I had 2 separate sets of cuffs and a collar equipped after I took them off my follower, thought I should pause it so I didn't get punished for not wearing the things I'm supposed to but a bit later I noticed it had forgotten my modular deals. I had Bear Deal at "Rule 1 - Collar, Rule 2 - Deep Debt Deal," but now it just says "Rule - 0, Rule 2 - 0."

 

**snip**

 

Update: okay it didn't just break my current modular deal, it seems to have broke all modular deals, so the rule just says 0 any time I try to take a new one. **snip**

 

Yes, I had that issue with the modular deals, too. Any time I paused DF (I don't use DCL), the modular deals were broken when I unpaused the mod. Buying out didn't matter. I had to reset the mod. Then I adjusted my willpower and made new deals to get me back to approximately where I was before I hit the pause button.

 

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

I've added a theoretical fix for the proximity bug.

The hand on shoulder cannot fire unless the follower is in the same cell, and less than 200 distant.

This can let you dodge the mechanic a bit, but that might be a feature.

 

New deal dialogs appear to be working as intended.

I think I fixed a long-standing issue with modular deals sometimes assigning no deal for no obvious reason; a lot of clean-up there anyway.

 

**snip**

 

I like what you're trying for the proximity bug.

Re: the modular deals, is this the same bug as when unpausing the mod?

Link to post
8 hours ago, Seeker999 said:

is this the same bug as when unpausing the mod

Probably not.

I made some changes to pausing months ago, but it's hard to remember what now.

It needs more testing to see if that issue can be reproduced, or whether there are other deficiencies - but apparently people don't want to sidetrack their gameplay for several days just testing a mod :) That means I have to test by myself, and that will probably mean narrow/limited testing that is just about certain features working in their normal setting.

Link to post

Heya! First, THANK YOU! This mod is amazing :D I've had a lot of fun messing around with it. It's gotten me into the very best of troubles, and I'm very much looking forward to the progress coming this year, providing the roadmap you've set out isn't as hopeless as last year's was.

 

I'm currently running into a brick wall of a bug. My Papyrus logs are pointing to a very particular thing, but I'm not really sure how to read it. The one thing that stays the same in the crash is in the following blockquote. It happens when someone runs up to me and accuses me of being a Slave. (Question: What exactly triggers that? I can load a safe save before this particular NPC starts chasing me down, but that's unimportant... WHY CAN'T I HIDE?! NORMAL ENEMIES AREN'T SMART ENOUGH TO FOLLOW ME LIKE THIS!)

 

I didn't think this was your mod, but I found the "where is your master" text by using Creation Kit, so it must be. This might be a bug due to nomkaz's port to SSE, but I imagine it won't hurt to see if this is an easy fix.

Quote

[01/20/2021 - 11:34:25PM] [Zad]: LockDevice called for Samantha: Slave Handcuffs)
[01/20/2021 - 11:34:25PM] Error: Property UnEquipConflictingDevices on script zadequipscript attached to Item 6 in container  (00000014) cannot be initialized because the value is the incorrect type
[01/20/2021 - 11:34:25PM] [Zad]: OnContainerChanged()
[01/20/2021 - 11:34:25PM] [Zad]: OnEquipped(Samantha: Slave Handcuffs)
[01/20/2021 - 11:34:25PM] [Zad]: Checking for active unequip operation for [Keyword <zad_DeviousHeavyBondage (0C05226C)>]
[01/20/2021 - 11:34:25PM] [Zad]: No active unequip operation running for [Keyword <zad_DeviousHeavyBondage (0C05226C)>]. Proceeding
[01/20/2021 - 11:34:25PM] [Zad]: No menus are open. Equipping silently.
[01/20/2021 - 11:34:25PM] [Zad]: Sending device event DeviceEquippedHandcuffs(Samantha:1)

 

Link to post

So I paused DFC in my current playthrough for RP reasons. My follower was/is in control of my gold. I still get the daily "you're allowed to carry this much gold" pop-up and it looks to me like my carried gold is still being adjusted.

 

Is this expected behaviour?

 

And is my follower still charging his daily rate even though the mod is paused? If so, I suppose I can go tweak the cost settings so it's not a big deal, but it'd be good to know for sure either way.

 

I'm not asking for changes or fixes - I think these are edge cases and that your time is better spent pursuing the road map and more significant fixes - but I thought I'd check.

Link to post
3 hours ago, Anunya said:

Is this expected behaviour?

Oh you know it's not!

 

However, I can't explain this behavior. The code for gold control doesn't run if _DFlow is less than stage 10.

Can you getstage _DFlow in your paused game and let me know what stage it returns?

 

Pausing should reset _DFlow and then stop it, so it can't be anything other than 0, which would stop gold control running updates.

Very strange.

 

3 hours ago, Anunya said:

And is my follower still charging his daily rate even though the mod is paused?

Probably not. The quests handling that are stopped. But mysteries! See above.

 

 

I'm not sure your DF actually paused. Maybe it failed in an early step?

That would fit with most of the pause code not executing.

One cause could be an improperly assigned DF master, so dereferencing the alias blows up.

 

 

I don't think Pause is an edge case; it's a core feature that lets you - in theory - use DF with a variety of mods that are otherwise incompatible.

 

As a hack you can probably stop the gold control quest from the console and restart it when you unpause.

 

To stop gold mode:

setstage _DFlowGoldMode 2

 

To start gold mode:

setstage _DFlowGoldMode 1

 

 

It would be nice to find out what's going on here, as I can't see a code bug that would cause this.

If you keep the save this happens in, possibly, with a little persistence it can be debugged.

 

 

Also, I can see the failure to properly save and restore modular needs on pause/unpause is obvious in the code, so I'll fix that, and test it more carefully.

It's just rather tricky to do because modular deals have a lot of state.

Link to post
2 hours ago, bVZinda said:

My Papyrus logs are pointing to a very particular thing, but I'm not really sure how to read it. The one thing that stays the same in the crash is in the following blockquote. It happens when someone runs up to me and accuses me of being a Slave. (Question: What exactly triggers that? I can load a safe save before this particular NPC starts chasing me down, but that's unimportant... WHY CAN'T I HIDE?! NORMAL ENEMIES AREN'T SMART ENOUGH TO FOLLOW ME LIKE THIS!)

 

Probably... you have a broken DD install, or the SSE conversion of the DF devices is broken.

Not a certainty, but seems quite likely.

 

The guard event triggers because you have low willpower and are already wearing a collar or a lockable device of some kind that isn't heavy bondage.

Set your willpower to a high value and it won't occur.

 

e.g.

set _DWill to 10.0

 

Or remove the lockable devices you're wearing.

 

Either action will stop the forced start from running.

Link to post
3 hours ago, twsnider1138 said:

just a heads up but DD5.1 is now out if you wanted to poke around with it.

That took about as long as expected...

Maybe after I can get a DF release done.

 

Looking at the changelist and bugs fixed I'm surprised anyone could play a game with 5.0. Waiting a bit was definitely a good call.

Link to post
5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

Looking at the changelist and bugs fixed I'm surprised anyone could play a game with 5.0. Waiting a bit was definitely a good call.

 

Maybe that's why it's busted. I was using 5.0 >_>

Link to post

Disabling Stop() and Start() in _DFlowModDealController seemed to fix the problem with modular deals after pause/unpause. At least for me. It felt like other scripts lose connection with _MDDeal and can't retrieve "int Rule1Code" and others. That's why we get "Rule - 0" in Mcm.

Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...