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14 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

It looks like it's been broken for ages.

The base conditions for the "sold" quest dialogs are very wrong.

I don't think it was changed recently, so it's possible that in most cases the sold quest simply didn't work when it was supposed to, and a fix somewhere else has brought it back to life.

 

You should be able to make your game sensible again with:

  Hide contents

 

reset _DFlow

setstage _DFlow 10

 

 

But i don't think its my game since i restarted from new game reinstalling all mods expecially for that issue ... i will try the workaround ty.

 

P.S. in old versions sold quest worked perfectly fine. if i remember well in 2.03a worked i guess. 

 

p.p.s says reset inst a command nor the console it recognizes _DFlow fariable

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5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I don't think that's the wrong body or armor, I think - and it's only a guess because I have very little information to go on - that you built with the wrong slider configuration.

 

i.e. You are mixing builds from two different Bodyslide slider sets.

 

Also, if you are CBBE throughout your game, then a UNP body would display misplaced breast textures due to your CBBE textures.

 Yeah, you're probably right. But how do i switch to a proper slider configuration?
The thing is - it looks like the outfit itself does fit my main (Misty) CBBE preset, however in game the UNP body is being used instead of CBBE one.
I'm very unexperienced with Bodyslide and i only figured out how to batch builds for my main CBBE body preset and it works fine with all of the other outfits, but not with this one :weary:

 

Spoiler

_391725191ae6de68c7f57a600605eb66.png?no

 

Again - sorry for bothering you with this, i know you're not Bodyslide tech support, but i'd be really grateful if you could help me out with this, since you're already know the root of the problem.

And maybe you could add a short tutorial on how to install the outfit properly for future dummies like myself 🙃

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1 hour ago, paparebbe said:

since you're already know the root of the problem.

But I don't know. I'm not sure what you're seeing, all I saw was an image that looked like it was from Bodyslide.

 

The CBBE armor pieces are going to have a CBBE body in them; assuming I uploaded the right files - and I think I checked quite carefully at the time, though it was a while ago.

The body is in the NIF, so you can't get a UNP body and a CBBE bikini unless it doesn't use slot 32.

 

It looks a bit like you may have two bodies rendering, but I don't know how that could happen - you'd need some strange AA setups to make that happen.

 

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6 hours ago, darkfender666 said:

p.p.s says reset inst a command nor the console it recognizes _DFlow fariable

resetquest _DFlow

 

_DFlow isn't a variable. It's a quest.

 

 

  

6 hours ago, darkfender666 said:

P.S. in old versions sold quest worked perfectly fine. if i remember well in 2.03a worked i guess. 

I found the dialog problem. It's because I did some things to make paying off slavery harder, but accidentally made it impossible.

 

I had some problems understanding the problem report.

I thought the issue being raised was that slavery was triggering with insufficient deals and not going through the warning stage.

 

Is the required deals and warning stage working as intended?

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Just in case if anyone will be wondering - the outfits that were handed to me by the quest were the ones for the UNP and if you'll search through the 'Add Item Menu' - there are 2 version of each outfit, the one that has this weird bug and the one that actually fits the CBBE body.

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11 hours ago, paparebbe said:

Just in case if anyone will be wondering - the outfits that were handed to me by the quest were the ones for the UNP and if you'll search through the 'Add Item Menu' - there are 2 version of each outfit, the one that has this weird bug and the one that actually fits the CBBE body.

I really don't know what you've done with your install, so I'm guessing ... but it sounds like you tried to install the CBBE pack specifically for this mod as a custom armor?

 

That's now how you use it. It replaces the UNP models by overwrite. You just install it over the top of the bundled ones, Bodyslide, and off you go.

If you've got two copies, that would be a little strange, unless you installed some re-based TAWoBA version I don't know about.

 

The armor and AAs are duplicated in DFC, but the file paths are "vanilla" TAWoBA, so there's no duplicates if you already have a TAWoBA install.

If you have a full CBBE setup of TAWoBA, then its files should overwrite DFC's files.

 

I think the paths are the same for CBBE and UUNP, but it was weeks ago when I made that CBBE pack, and I never had a CBBE game to test it in, so it could be all wrong.

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On 4/10/2021 at 1:26 PM, Lupine00 said:

You will be overjoyed to discover that there is.

There should be something in your quest journal. If not, then there's a bug.

 

Tip: pay your follower, then follower never robs all your stuff and give you a fraction of the value.

 

Oh, and you would have sooo loved Lozeak's Dwarven Gauntlets boss loot item. Such a pity I stopped that dropping.

 

Never saw a thing.  The quest journal is not the place for this, it should be happening through dialog.  Also, I knew you were going to say something like "Well then pay your follower"  Then I will throw back that it is entirely unrealistic for the follower to just take all your stuff and still be standing there afterwards without the items.  They would have the items, and be forcing deals on you to get the items back.  That, or they would be dead by my sword for stealing.  They already have ways to get their gold, they do not need to resort to stealing.

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@slvsaris if you just want to vent and don't actually want your problems solved, I'm not going to listen.

Your tone is straight-out hostile and lacks even the excuse of a failed attempt at humor.

 

 

The point being made isn't well argued.

I'm sure there are many ways the feature could improve, but that's only going to happen through an agreeable debate.

Being a bully about it just puts you straight on my block list.

 

 

If the item recovery quest isn't working, I guess it will stay broken until somebody else actually puts in the effort to provide helpful bug reports because there is no chance at all I will be interacting with you further - for a while anyway. Which in no way impairs your ability to say whatever you like - but with the added benefit that it doesn't make me feel like a human piñata. Oddly enough, I don't come here to be raged at, and I have a very simply policy for dealing with that.

 

I looked at the item removal code yesterday, and it seemed like it would be ok.

I'm not spending any more time on it without confirmation from another player with a different install that there's an actual bug.

 

 

DF has always stolen items, since its very early versions, and even in 1.X they were not simply destroyed, but were recoverable - and I have seen the feature work. I haven't used it dozens of times though. Maybe it's unreliable? Or maybe it works exactly as intended. Hard to say from one "non-report" that provided no detail.

 

It's actually exploitable, because you can clear a huge amount of debt that way, then get your items back for a pittance, assuming you're prepared to put up with losing them temporarily. I'm more troubled by that than the stealing - which only happens if you are significantly in debt, as a soft alternative to something else - like enslavement.

 

Without item removal, endless mode really has very little it can do to seriously punish the player for accumulating endless debt.

There's the "getting sold" feature, but that partially defeats the point of endless mode and is intended more as a deterrent than a practical punishment.

It really only exists because it was easier to add than fixing the stability issues in the enslaved mode - issues I'd like to hope are resolved now.

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Here is a preview of 2.14.0

This is not intended for general play.

It's not all of what will ultimately be in 2.14.0 release. (See planned work in the roadmap on my blog page).

 

If you're @HexBolt8 or really want to get more log spam about your deals - which I think will confirm my theories about people having problems with the deals they get - then this is for you.

 

What's new:

Spoiler
  • Test version has a LOT of log spam about deals and rules.
  • Fixes license revokes not revoking any licenses.
  • Fixes the dialog bug that meant you couldn't buy out of slavery.
  • Adds first-pass support for external slavery via Submissive Lola.
    • The handling of some external slavery events (not from SLTR) may be problematic, so that might be a point to focus on.
    • Also didn't test walk away or cancel out during the dialogs, but will tomorrow.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Here is a preview of 2.14.0

This is not intended for general play.

 

If you're @HexBolt8 or really want to get more log spam about your deals - which I think will confirm my theories about people having problems with the deals they get - then this is for you.


Does this version require a new game? Or will it work okay to upgrade from a game with DFC 2.13.5 ?

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5 minutes ago, Herowynne said:

Does this version require a new game? Or will it work okay to upgrade from a game with DFC 2.13.5 ?

I don't know for sure, but I'd guess it works ok once you've saved and reloaded.

 

If you plan to do anything to SLTR or test this with SLTR, you probably should be invited into the chat about it.

I'll leave that to Hexbolt.

For now I'll just post you my notes.

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4 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

If you plan to do anything to SLTR or test this with SLTR, you probably should be invited into the chat about it.

I'll leave that to Hexbolt.

For those who care to look at the integration with SLTR, support for that started with SLTR version 2.0.30.  If you see something that looks like a problem with SLTR, please report it on the SLTR discussion, since Lupine won't be able to fix it here.  What SLTR does when enslavement is started from Devious Followers:

 

Spoiler

- Sets the contract duration and/or score threshold to end enslavement, based on values sent from DF.

- Equips and locks the DF town collar.

- Disables your ability to ask for a different collar, but you're not punished if you escape on your own and equip another one.

- Prevents you from changing the score threshold or contract duration, or for asking for a contract extension.

- Does NOT yet support equipping the crawling boots and slave mittens.  This is an early implementation.

- Releases you from enslavement as soon as you meet the requirements.  DFC should then take control.

 

You're not permitted to stay a Sub Lola slave indefinitely, but you're free to submit yourself to your follower afterwards in the normal way.  During the conversation when you're released, if you say that you liked being a slave, then later submit to that follower (without submitting to anyone else first), you should start with about the same score that you had before.  This is more generous than the normal process for ending and reentering SLTR enslavement.

 

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On 4/10/2021 at 10:20 PM, Lupine00 said:

Files must have the right names as well as be in the right place.

See guide on the front page of this mod.

 

Hey hi,

 

I've followed the guide and now have my nifs copied over into DFCustWhoreArmor folder as per the instructions, but I have a question.  The light armor I chose has different color variations, like chrome, red etc.  and the armor mod is already installed as normal so the texture files already exist in \data\textures. 

 

Do I need to copy the textures somewhere as well so that Devious Followers will know which color armor to pick?    Was wondering if I need to make a DFCustWhoreArmor in the Textures folder?

 

Thanks :)

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12 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

really want to get more log spam about your deals - which I think will confirm my theories about people having problems with the deals they get - then this is for you.

 

Hi @Lupine00

 

Testing with the 2.14.0 preview and Papyrus logging turned on. It took than usual longer to reproduce the problem, but I was able to.

 

Normally, I see the incorrect "extend" dialogue for about 80-90% of accepted deals. In this case, I got the correct dialogue for about 10 or 11 accepted deals before getting incorrect dialogue. Perhaps the problem is timing-related, as you speculated earlier.

 

I was only testing with Classic deals enabled, and Modular deals count was set to zero.

 

The very last deal accepted in the Papyrus log was the corset deal (stage 1 of Looking Pretty), but I got the line of dialog "extend an existing deal of my choice".

 

Here is a screenshot showing the line of dialogue:

 

Spoiler

20210412160038_1.jpg.b1dbf4795baf228360caf091217b2e4b.jpg

 

 

Here is a screenshot taken immediately after accepting the deal, showing that I actually got the corset deal:

 

Spoiler

20210412160131_1.jpg.fddc8f284ab69697d660cf36f6353a73.jpg

 

 

Here is the Papyrus log for the entire game session.

 

Papyrus.0.log

 

 

The relevant section of the log is near the end of the log file, lines 2248 through 2257:

 

[04/12/2021 - 04:00:48PM] DF - AcceptPendingDeal - NewDeal 1, DealOffering 1
[04/12/2021 - 04:00:48PM] DF - adding deal by ID 1
[04/12/2021 - 04:00:48PM] DF - CheckDealOpen 1
[04/12/2021 - 04:00:48PM] DF - adding deal 1 deal OPEN is TRUE
[04/12/2021 - 04:00:48PM] DF - MakeDeal 1 START
[04/12/2021 - 04:00:48PM] DF - MakeDeal 1
[04/12/2021 - 04:00:48PM] DF - MakeDeal - reduce debt
[04/12/2021 - 04:00:48PM] DF - MakeDeal - bondage deal 1
[04/12/2021 - 04:00:48PM] LDC - got a device for keyword 'zad_DeviousCorset', itemName 'Black Ebonite Restrictive Corset'
[04/12/2021 - 04:00:48PM] [Zad]: OnContainerChanged()
 

 

I hope this helps shed some light on this issue! Thanks!

 

EDIT: Did some more testing, and Papyrus logging on versus off appears to make a significant difference. The incorrect dialogue is very frequent when Papyrus logging is off, and the incorrect dialogue is rare when Papyrus logging is on.

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3 hours ago, Herowynne said:

I hope this helps shed some light on this issue! Thanks!

We knew this happens.

 

The log confirms that there is no "broken" selection of a bad potential deal, the issue is entirely in the dialog conditions simply failing to act on the potential deal value that is set. Corset was always selected; there's no run through GetPotentialDeal that returns 0 just before it. This is what I expected to see.

 

But the info about the debugs changing the outcome sometimes is valuable.

 

It confirms that it's a race or caching issue relating to the variable used in the dialog conditions.

It also confirms that timing changes or Papyrus thread swaps can help mitigate it.

 

The flow goes like this:

 

  • Entry dialog - 
    • start script starts to compute the prospective deal
    • Deal offer dialog -
      • dialog conditions use the selected deal variable
      • the prospective deal calculation completes - after conditions are tested - selected deal variable set
      • Deal acceptance dialog -
        • uses the selected deal variable

 

You see how the problem is caused by a race between the player clicking through the dialogs and the completion of the scripts?

In practice it might be a bit more subtle - the value might get written in a thread handling Papyrus, but not yet propagated to the native code thread that is evaluating the conditions because that's running on a different core and the value is cached.

Adding in the debugs causes the scripts to schedule differently, and so you observe some variation in behavior, but it's still stochastic.

Probably the debugs are resulting in re-syncs of Papyrus state across cores so the native code is seeing the latest property value.

 

In my games ... the dev system is running nothing but DFC, so it goes smoothly all the time.

And my main game is quite stripped down, and runs on a unicorn* PC, so apparently that goes smoothly all the time too.

Also, I have my Papyrus slice set to a lot more than standard in my main game, so if need be, I can run a lot of Papyrus in a frame.

 

So, I just don't see the races - they may be more likely in SE - but I would imagine they're still possible in LE.

May be that SE runs more Papyrus threads in parallel? Or that SE users typically have CPUs with a bazillion cores, or something...

 

There are a couple of possible ways to avoid this... but they're not ideal.

  1. the conditions are set to rely on a conditional property that contains code that blocks if the recalc isn't finished.
  2. the deal selection somehow occurs before you ever enter the dialog.

 

I thought about (2), and it is a little tricky because it requires the next deal to be recalculated every time you gain or remove a deal, or the player changes the deal options, which is possible, but because DFC is the opposite of DRY code, I might miss some paths where that happens, and it could take a while to nail down elusive bug paths where you might be offered a conflicting deal. On the plus side, this is pretty sure to fix any problems with either race conditions or property caching mixed with race conditions.

 

I thought about (1), and it's a little non-performant, but I wasn't sure about it because it wouldn't necessarily solve caching issues.

As we've learned timing matters, so this option still looks likely to fix things if it forces a wait, even a short one, as that also seems to result in the engine synching the property values across the Papyrus/native boundary and thus, potentially across cores. It might not be 100% dependable though.

 

I'll update the next preview to use (1) and hopefully you can test and see if it fixes the problem.

Failing that working, I will resort to (2).

 

* I made this up as a way of saying the opposite of a potato - most people won't have PC of comparable performance for several years yet.

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New Preview

Not for general play, this is a debug version with work in progress

 

Changes:

Spoiler
  • Add: can set weights for enslavement destinations in other mods menu.
  • Add: can be enslaved into Submissive Lola the Resubmission instead of DFC.
  • Fix: can now buy out of slavery again.
  • Fix: license revokes now revoking licenses as intended.
  • Fix: greed personality value now set correctly.
  • Fix: sleep events prevented from occurring improperly during pause.
  • Fix: handling of external events during pause now all pause aware.
  • Change: Event to add devious follower while paused will do nothing if paused.
  • Change: Being forced into gold control doesn't dump an unlimited amount of debt, it can only dump up to half of debt-per-day. PC may still have more things to "work" out as a result.

 

Also contains an experimental change to how the deal selection values are set internally that might solve the race condition issues (or might not).

This is intended to stop the apparent offered deal being different from the actual offered deal - caused by the dialog condition seeing a different value to that set by an earlier script.

 

I'm not hugely optimistic about this approach, so may end up trying something more drastic, but if this was an issue for you, please test and report.

 

Lola slavery now uses follower personality to adjust slavery parameters.

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10 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

New Preview

Not for general play, this is a debug version with work in progress

 

Also contains an experimental change to how the deal selection values are set internally that might solve the race condition issues (or might not).

This is intended to stop the apparent offered deal being different from the actual offered deal - caused by the dialog condition seeing a different value to that set by an earlier script.

 

I'm not hugely optimistic about this approach, so may end up trying something more drastic, but if this was an issue for you, please test and report.

 

@Lupine00 Sorry, not good news.

 

Tested 2.14.0 preview #2 and accepted 9 classic deals, but got the actual deal dialogue only once. Got the "extend" dialogue for 8 of 9 deals accepted. This testing was done with Papyrus logging turned off.

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1 hour ago, Herowynne said:

Tested 2.14.0 preview #2 and accepted 9 classic deals, but got the actual deal dialogue only once. Got the "extend" dialogue for 8 of 9 deals accepted. This testing was done with Papyrus logging turned off.

It was a long shot, so I'm not too surprised.

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New Preview

Not for general play, this is a debug version with work in progress.

 

Changes since last release:

Spoiler
  • Add: can set weights for enslavement destinations in other mods menu.
  • Add: can be enslaved into Submissive Lola the Resubmission instead of DFC - uses follower personality to influence Lola duration and goals.
  • Fix: can now buy out of slavery again.
  • Fix: license revokes now revoking licenses as intended.
  • Fix: greed personality value now set correctly.
  • Fix: sleep events prevented from occurring improperly during pause.
  • Fix: handling of external events during pause now all pause aware.
  • Fix: removed some unused (and effectively empty) script fragments that look like they were from Captured Dreams.
  • Change: event to add devious follower while paused will do nothing if paused.
  • Change: being forced into gold control doesn't dump an unlimited amount of debt, it can only dump up to half of debt-per-day. PC may still have more things to "work" out as a result.

 

 

Changes since last preview:

  • Reworked deal selection mechanics so that deals should be selected before entering any dialogs.
    • If this doesn't fix the deal dialogs, the only remaining possibility is to stop using quest variables.

  • Cleaned up buyout mechanics.
  • Fixed several unused but unset properties in deal base objects.

 

Brute force solution to deal dialogs not describing the offered deal. Will be troubling if this doesn't work.

No other changes here - it's all related to deal dialogs.

 

 

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I don't think there's any change needed to the basic mechanisms in the preview for SLTR slavery beyond what's there, though I plan to make it so the sold feature can set weights for possible destinations, and clarify that it's only for endless mode. (I think normal mode is already well-covered by setting slavery destination weights now).

 

 

Possible extensions to the SLTR slavery...

 

Which one is the best?

 

 

1) A simple offer: spend 30 days in SLTR to get rid of all your debts and deals.

 

2) A slavery gambling game you can play any time you have at least two deals and some debt.

Spoiler

 

Follower says: "These are the rules of the game. I roll a regular six sided die and depending on the result, I forgive some of your deals and debt, but you have to spend some time as my slave, voluntarily."

 

Follower says:  "These are the outcomes:

   Roll 6 means 7 days as a slave. I'll forgive three deals and 20% of your debt.

   Roll 4 or 5 means 15 days as a slave. I'll forgive four deals and 50% of your debt.

   Roll 2 or 3 means 30 days as a slave. I'll forgive five deals and 75% of your debt.

   Roll 1 means you stay my slave as long as I like, but I'll forgive all your deals and debt.

   I get to pick what deals are removed."

 

Followers with low morals would have a chance to cheat, and the player get some hint they cheated.

e.g. You reach for the die to check it, but the follower quickly snatches it away. "No more games for you slave."

 

 

3) If you have at least three deals, spend 3 days in SLTR per deal removed, choose to remove from three to ten deals. Each deal removed also removes 10% of debt.

 

4) Something else ... feel free to suggest.

 

 

How much interest is there in adding some other way to experience SLTR in exchange for removing DFC debt and deals?


Are many people interested in this feature at all?

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1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Are many people interested in this feature at all?

 

I'm currently gearing up for another round of DFC Skyrim, and I'm interested in this. Last time around I used endless mode, because the slavery mode felt strange: I really disliked crawling around everywhere at high speed, which just felt ugly and surreal. And at the same time, slavery felt like cheating: suddenly I was released from all of my deals, and I no longer was accruing debt. Why not stay like that forever? So I tried endless mode, which was probably better, but not particularly interesting. Hopefully SLTR will be an improvement on both.

 

That said, my understanding is that SLTR requires ZAP 7/8, and I am a bit wary of having to add more gigantic requirements that I'll only use for a small portion of my time playing. So that's a bit of a dilemma.

 

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

Which one is the best?

 

I think I like the third option the best. I do think that DFC is at its best when it feels like you're being pressured to do something, but that you always have a choice not to do that thing. In this case, I think it would be nice if there was some implied or possible "final solution" that the follower would have to resort to if you deny all of their attempts to work out your financial problems. Maybe that final solution is just the "dump the player deep in some pit covered in bondage items" scenario, or maybe it's something else.

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3 hours ago, rawrrawr300 said:

SLTR requires ZAP 7

7 isn't gigantic, 8 sort of is.

 

3 hours ago, rawrrawr300 said:

Maybe that final solution is just the "dump the player deep in some pit covered in bondage items"

Well... that is a scenario. Probably most players never see it.

 

 

DFC slavery is supposed to be easy in some ways, and you're not really going at hyperspeed crawling, it's just normal speed.

You don't have to crawl everywhere, there are alternative situations that arise, but overall it's quite a shallow mechanic that failed to get sufficient love for a long time. As noted elsewhere, if I were to do more at slavery I'd make it completely separate from DFC, even if it were part of the same ESP.

 

There was a point where DFC enslavement was probably the best available, but it was a brief window, during which SD+ was broken beyond usability, DCUR had gutted itself, and Submissive Lola was an antique curiosity.

 

SLTR is good for a short while, but if you play it for long, it reveals that its content is also limited - like most Skyrim mods. There are quite a lot of little scenarios, but some are very short, and some are not terribly exciting. Fetch me an ale? OK, nice as an intro experience, but by third time you're already prepared with drinks, and by the fifth it's getting a bit stale. No way around that but more content, which just takes a lot of effort to make. For me, there isn't quite enough evolution of the relationship to keep me engaged long-term. An area where improvements may be made? I don't know what's planned.

 

The basic template of the submissive path in Sex Slaves is more engaging, but lacks the day-to-day of SLTR. Layering a story quest on top of a daily-grind mod like SLTR would be my ideal. Running SLTR at the same time as Sex Slaves would be interesting, if only one would count the sex from the other towards your obligations.

 

DFC could probably do better on that count itself. I need to make a note about that.

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Question: The Mistress won't offer to remove devious chastity bras or belts that were added by a trapped chest. She did offer to remove armbinders and gags. Is this on purpose? If she can't struggle out of them she's hosed because Mistress has her bondage keys....

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