guide Skyrim SE for Beginners - V 3.2.6 (3BBB / HDT-SMP / HPH)

[jaeos]

23 minutes ago, mknn said:

I got sick of troubleshooting FPS rates of 8 to 20. So about a week from now I'll have a new laptop (OK, Skyrim wasn't the only reason). Advice? I would assume it's a re-download from scratch type of exercise? Clearly, I can move the saved games from machine to machine.

You can, copy everything inside the MO2 folders. You'll need a big jump drive.

[-Ayleth-]

17 minutes ago, jaeos said:

Overwrite in MO2 is a catchall for files that were added while it was running. If you create bodyslide files it puts them into overwrite. When you first start the game Fuz-ro-Duh tries to add a script. it end up in overwrite. When you run FNIS. it will end up in overwrite. Run Bodyslide. Open the overwrite, it should have files for all the outfits you made in bodyslide. Right click overwrite and make a mod of the contents, bodyslide outfits, for example, you can name it anything you want, you just need to remember what mod that is. You have a new mod at the bottom labeled whatever you named the overwrite. Then Run FNIS. do the same thing. make a mod from the overwrite. 

This is how you clear the overwrite.

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You see here we have the warning up in the top (I ran FNIS just to show you this) 

if you double click overwrite you see we have a file named TOOLS. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

As you can see, it shows a folder named generate FNIS for users. So it's the FNIS we ran. 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

If you click on another mod you see OVERWRITE is now in red.

  Reveal hidden contents

So now you right click overwrite and choose create mod.

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Name it FNIS-Output or something you will remember what it is.

The NEXT time you run FNIS, You drag and drop the folder inside into the mod you named. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Once you do that, your warning should go away.

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Do that for every mod that requires an output into the overwrite. Some things like extra scripts fuzroduh puts out can be made into their own mods, or you can drag it to the skse scripts folder at the top. 

I really didn´t understand anything ? Is doing FNIS and Bodyslide stuff different in Mo2 ? In NMM I just built my bodyslide stuff and my FNIS and that was it. This seems like a huge process to just simply do these 2 things I previously did with a few clicks. But again maybe I didn´t quite understand you

[Aylis]

Uploaded a new pic for the order of the ESM and ESL (post #3). Done

 

Remember: that one is only an example how it looks in my build atm.

[Just Don't]

3 minutes ago, AkiKay said:

Is doing FNIS and Bodyslide stuff different in Mo2 ? In NMM I just built my bodyslide stuff and my FNIS and that was it. This seems like a huge process to just simply do these 2 things I previously did with a few clicks. But again maybe I didn´t quite understand you

You need to register their executables and launch them through MO. That's it. I made a guide for starting with MO, you could check that before starting to follow this guide. It should help you understand the basics.

[babalooch]

16 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

I use Vortex and while I am not a big fan, most of what you wrote there is rubbish.

The only rules needed are for conflicting files.

Groups are a matter of choice and AFAIK purely cosmetic/for convenience.

Vortex uses either its own autosort feature or LOOT - user's choice as to which one.

With either autosort or LOOT it is a simple enough matter to set a rule to make a plug-in load where the user wants it to.

Why is this mod list any different than any other mod list?

I am an experienced Vortex modder(600+) and "Groups are a matter of choice" is utter rubbish. This modlist, any big modlist, requires them for Vortex to even have a chance with non-Nexus mods. Doubly so if you are trying to get large mods(especially ones that write to everywhere, like Bruma) , their patches and/or a smashed/merged patches to work.

 

Consider: who exactly is going to report to LOOT that they got Sexlab Barnyard Frolics to work with Bruma: Whip Farmer Joe's Wife addon before Bruma Spells, but after the Pimp the Wife or Double the Mortgage patch but before the Egg Factory? And whatever you do, don't enable any needs settings, or it will rain poop in Bruma at night if you are a werewolf... We're supposed to accept that LOOT knows this, and will sort it?

 

"A single rule is a simple matter". Great. Water is also wet.

 

Now try having 16 .esps, some Nexus, some not, that Vortex has tangled together because .esp A writes to form 1 and 2, B writes to 2 and 4, and C writes to 1 and 23 etc. Then add 3 patches. We're gonna need 20-50 rules to sort this out, just to stop LOOT/Vortex from scattering these .esps, and us wasting our time gathering them back into a readable/functioning order. And, it only takes 1 more esp for us to have to redo half the rules. To move that 1 .esp to exactly one spot requires 2 rules at least, specific to the .esp before and after, unless that changes. On top of that, the circular reference tool, which wouldn't be necessary if we could move .esps, often forces us into an overwrite order we don't want, especially if one plans on merging/bashing later.

 

I understand why they did it: letting users freely move .esps around is awful. Counting on them doing it right is worse. Hence, this thread is 160+ pages, even with the OP giving specific(mostly LOL) instructions. I get it. However, Vortex's approach is merely the opposite end of the problem: a complex to the point of unworkable solution, is no solution. Creating groups is the only way to make it workable, and actually get the desired load order.

 

-----------

 

Aside, but on the topic of grouping: Vortex Groups and rules are a clumsy way to accomplish what this Mator Smash Rules and/or this RAB Smash Splitter does. The second is far superior to Vortex's approach. It creates groups based on record type, not based on user/Loot guesswork and/or days of xEdit study. I wish I knew about these 2 a year ago. And forget the 255 limit: Unofficial Mator Smash ignores it.

[-Ayleth-]

2 minutes ago, Just Don't said:

You need to register their executables and launch them through MO. That's it. I made a guide for starting with MO, you could check that before starting to follow this guide. It should help you understand the basics.

So it´s the same as NMM. Phew ? But what was jaeos explaining there ? I´m quite curious now

[Just Don't]

4 minutes ago, AkiKay said:

So it´s the same as NMM. Phew ? But what was jaeos explaining there ? I´m quite curious now

But it's not  like NMM... I mean there must be similarities, but the inner working is completely different. Jaeos was explaining how to manage the Overwrite folder in MO. As MO doesn't create or place files in your actual game folder, some mods or tools will generate files in Overwrite instead. Ideally you want to keep that folder empty and any generated file in their proper place. That's a 10 sec task once in a blue moon when you use tools like FNIS or generate new files with Bodyslide and so on. Once you get the gist of how MO works everything is easier.

[Aylis]

?

 

You guys type too fast...

 

I didn't have the chance to add the stuff for @AkiKay ?

[-Ayleth-]

14 minutes ago, Just Don't said:

 As MO doesn't create or place files in your actual game folder

Doesn´t that make manual installation of some files harder ? Some mods like to put optional esps in some folders that I need to manually put in the Data Folder . And I usually like to edit some textures but if they´re not in the Data folder then that seems difficult. I´m not sure if I like the way Mo2 manages this. But maybe it´s better than NMM´s way ?

[Aylis]

@AkiKay

The big difference, and that is where most people struggle, is that MO2 uses a virtual installation of the mods. There are only a few mods (Preinstallation) that are handled differently.

 

After that it is just going down the list from the top. The violet stuff (with the ?) is something you sometimes have to move manually and the more difficult stuff (Tip) got an entry in post #3 with instructions.

 

Yay. I got to use a small part of the stuff i wrote before... 

[-Ayleth-]

2 minutes ago, Aylis said:

@AkiKay

The big difference, and that is where most people struggle, is that MO2 uses a virtual installation of the mods. There are only a few mods (Preinstallation) that are handled differently.

 

After that it is just going down the list from the top. The violet stuff (with the ?) is something you sometimes have to move manually and the more difficult stuff (Tip) got an entry in post #3 with instructions.

 

Yay. I got to use some of the stuff i wrote before...

I´m getting progressively more confused. I think I need to take a look at Mo2 before asking questions ?

[Just Don't]

10 minutes ago, AkiKay said:

Doesn´t that make manual installation of some files harder ? Some mods like to put optional esps in some folders that I need to manually put in the Data Folder . And I usually like to edit some textures but if they´re not in the Data folder then that seems difficult. I´m not sure if I like the way Mo2 manages this. But maybe it´s better than NMM´s way ?

You won't be doing any manual installs if you want MO to do its thing.

You can explore your installed textures and other files in the same way you'd do if they were installed in \Data. With the added benefit that you can view all the repeated/conflicting textures from different mods and pick which will be used with a couple of clicks.

 

7 minutes ago, AkiKay said:

I think I need to take a look at Mo2 before asking questions ?

Yes, it's something different, so if you're not used to it everything we told you about it will sound weird. After you get familiar with the basics it should be way easier to understand and follow instructions. And for that you must read and test, so go slowly and you'll get there. This guide or mine are not intended to be completed in 5-10 minutes so don't feel pressured. 

[alaunus01]

33 minutes ago, AkiKay said:

I´m getting progressively more confused. I think I need to take a look at Mo2 before asking questions ?

Follow the 'Wanna mod your Skyrim SE but don't know how to start?' from @Just Don't to familiarize yourself with how MO2 works.

 

When you done a working modded SE install you can come back here and follow the step by step guide from @Aylis.

 

On another note: Creature inclusion/exclusion lists in SL Defeat are slightly misleading in the MCM. I ended up disabling what I wanted to keep while keeping what I wanted disabled ?

[Grey Cloud]

1 hour ago, babalooch said:

I am an experienced Vortex modder(600+) and "Groups are a matter of choice" is utter rubbish.

Jesus. Just because you have to have groups doesn't mean they are mandatory. I have somewhere between 350 and 400 mods IIRC and have absolutely no need for any groups.

1 hour ago, babalooch said:

We're supposed to accept that LOOT knows this, and will sort it?

Did I say we should?

 

1 hour ago, babalooch said:

Now try having 16 .esps, some Nexus, some not, that Vortex has tangled together

What is the difference between a Nexus mod esp and a non-Nexus mod esp? How does a mod manager 'tangle together' esps? How does anything tangle esps? I can get either Vortex or LOOT to load esps in the order I want.

 

1 hour ago, babalooch said:

On top of that, the circular reference tool, which wouldn't be necessary if we could move .esps, often forces us into an overwrite order we don't want, especially if one plans on merging/bashing later.

As I've already said, we can move esps or at least I can. If you can't then look to yourself rather than blame Vortex. The circular reference tool only kicks in when you have a circular reference. It does not force you into any overwrite order.

 

1 hour ago, babalooch said:

To move that 1 .esp to exactly one spot requires 2 rules at least, specific to the .esp before and after, unless that changes.

Rubbish. With Vortex you only have to drag it to where you want it, e.g. after/below x.esp. Similarly with LOOT you set a metadata rule for the esp to load after x.esp.

 

1 hour ago, babalooch said:

Hence, this thread is 160+ pages, even with the OP giving specific(mostly LOL) instructions.

Then perhaps there is something fundamentally wrong with this approach. Copying somebody else's mod list is not a way to learn anything.

[Just Don't]

7 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

Then perhaps there is something fundamentally wrong with this approach. Copying somebody else's mod list is not a way to learn anything.

Seriously, drop it. And you shouldn't extrapolate page count to quality of the end product. Your initial complain has totally derailed the topic just because you can't stand people telling others to not use Vortex when the guide was written with MO in mind. For all the comments you make about people being assholes for recommending or mentioning MO over Vortex, you're surely being an asshole here. And for no real reason, you don't like MO and you don't even play SE.

[Aylis]

1 hour ago, alaunus01 said:

Follow the 'Wanna mod your Skyrim SE but don't know how to start?' from @Just Don't to familiarize yourself with how MO2 works.

 

When you done a working modded SE install you can come back here and follow the step by step guide from @Aylis.

This might be the best way. ?

 

Maybe i'm running into a language-barrier here, but i honestly don't see a way to make the guide easier to follow...

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Just Don't said:

This guide or mine are not intended to be completed in 5-10 minutes so don't feel pressured. 

Exactly! Patience is a major keyfactor for modding. Rushing it will only cause problems.

... and thats coming from me...

[jaeos]

7 minutes ago, Aylis said:

This might be the best way. ?

 

Maybe i'm running into a language-barrier here, but i honestly don't see a way to make the guide easier to follow...

You don't speak the 'murica fluently enough.. Its not the guide is to hard to follow, but people have been reading things on places like nexus, or here (not exactly this thread) and thinking that is is WAY harder than it actually is. I.E. people are over thinking. They see Mt Everest when it's actually just a hill. Preconceptions from moving over from NMM or being scared they will completely bork something causes them to think so. 

[Aylis]

@jaeos

Thanks. I already thought i screwed up somewhere. ?

[jaeos]

2 minutes ago, Aylis said:

@jaeos

Thanks. I already thought i screwed up somewhere. ?

Before i started using this guide, i could get maybe 150 mods into a semi stable working order using LOOT, (hourly or bihourly CTD) i knew that you shouldn't just throw them into MO2 or NMM all willy nilly, but, also no true guidance.  there was no true guide for someone who has done zero modding. This attempts to combat that. And getting someone from point a to point c while they are doing their best to go to point z and they still get it mostly right, but gain knowledge, maybe not of how each mod works but enough that they can self diagnose the mod setup and usually fix it themselves is a win. 

[Grey Cloud]

1 hour ago, Just Don't said:

Seriously, drop it. And you shouldn't extrapolate page count to quality of the end product. Your initial complain has totally derailed the topic just because you can't stand people telling others to not use Vortex when the guide was written with MO in mind.

I'm replying to posts addressed to me, like yours. I don't give a flying fuck about whether people like or dislike Vortex, as I said I'm not a great fan myself. What I will react to is people talking shit about something.

I don't give a shit one way or the other about MO or MO2 either. I react to people talking shit about them.

 

I apologise for disturbing people's comfort zone.

22 minutes ago, jaeos said:

Its not the guide is to hard to follow, but people have been reading things on places like nexus, or here (not exactly this thread) and thinking that is is WAY harder than it actually is. I.E. people are over thinking. They see Mt Everest when it's actually just a hill. Preconceptions from moving over from NMM or being scared they will completely bork something causes them to think so. 

That's the smartest thing that's been written here this weekend.

[IdosheJungo]

For the newcomers and @Aylis especially

 

I used this guide as my first real attempt at modding any elderscrolls game myself. It took a couple of attempts to get it right, to work out what mods I really wanted and what others actually did.

There are also things I still don't understand (like bodyslide), but, I have now got an understanding of how it works, what goes where, why things go in certain places.

 

Going slow and having patience will give you the best looking and cleanest base for a great playthrough of skyrim, but also, gives you the opportunity to know how to adjust it.

 

Now I have other (mostly quests and follower and a cats life!) mods added, and they work well, but only because this guide, and it's members, helped.

 

So thank you all, for all your patience and support.

 

 

[mknn]

It never ends, I guess???

 

Was running around with the current crew, killing dragons, whatever. Yay. Then, suddenly, my 3rd Person View dropped 6 feet ... so it's now half-embedded in the ground. GoogleFu seems to indicate skeleton issues, things with horses, etc. But this happened mid-game--no new mods, no nothing. I've tried various things found online--turning TFC on and off, yadda.

 

First person view works fine, so I've downloaded JoyOfPerspective, but I really prefer 3rd person view. Any notions of how to reset it to a usual height?

[jap2015]

1 hour ago, mknn said:

It never ends, I guess???

 

Was running around with the current crew, killing dragons, whatever. Yay. Then, suddenly, my 3rd Person View dropped 6 feet ... so it's now half-embedded in the ground. GoogleFu seems to indicate skeleton issues, things with horses, etc. But this happened mid-game--no new mods, no nothing. I've tried various things found online--turning TFC on and off, yadda.

 

First person view works fine, so I've downloaded JoyOfPerspective, but I really prefer 3rd person view. Any notions of how to reset it to a usual height?

A passive way to reset the camera is simply activate a alchemy or enchanter table. Does loading a previous save fix it. Do you use a camera altering mod?

[alaunus01]

4 hours ago, mknn said:

[...]Any notions of how to reset it to a usual height?

Try what jap2015 said. I might have an idea WHY it happened though.

 

3rd person camera can go bonkers if you happen to stumble into a scripted scene while in combat (i.e. make yourself immortal, spawn a bunch of nasty critters then enter the riverwood trader for the first time).

[Aylis]

8 hours ago, mknn said:

... JoyOfPerspective ...

O.o

 

Don't! You'd need a patch for every armor you want to use and thats why i kicked it off the list.