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Monoman1

Mortal Weapons & Armors

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1 hour ago, Corsayr said:

The drop thing MWA does to initiate an alias exacerbates the problem. In normal activity it doesn't seem to cause any noticeable issue. 

Ahh... thanks, that makes sense.  Interesting.  Now I have to look into when MWA does this, because if it performs the drop-to-give-reference thing with followers even before opening their inventory, it could explain some other crashes I'm seeing (in dialogue, ugh); it has the potential to reveal all sorts of flaws lurking in vanilla.

 

Thanks for the fix, and for bringing the original problem to light.

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A problem with helmet hider mod NoHeadgear.esp

 

Because the helmet hider sets all helmets to use only the Circlet slot, MWA appears to decide they are all clothing and gives them clothing durability levels.

 

I found it was possible to work around, but I can see that the helmets retain their correct Armor Keywords, such as ArmorLight, ArmorHeavy, etc.

They also still have the correct Armor Type.

 

I would have expected MWA to use Armor Type or these keywords to determine the type of an item, rather than looking at what slot they go in, but it seems it must use the slot somehow, but apart from that model file name that is all that is changed.

Spoiler


FalmerHelmet.png.8b756a93a5a58b8c30a65109b322e314.png

 

 

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53 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

A problem with helmet hider mod NoHeadgear.esp

Mmm, no I don't think it's the slot. I don't remember giving any particular slot any special treatment. 

Got a link to the mod? Searching noheadgear aint so hot. 

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Sorry, it's SkyHide

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/24766

 

It contains multiple ESPs, a ridiculous amount, one for each headgear type.

It seems, some time back, I merged them all into one big ESP and called it "NoHeadgear.esp"

 

So everything that's not a circlet uses an invisible model and goes in the circlet slot only (because going in the hair slot would be bad).

I don't see any other changes there. It's entirely slot and model changes. Or maybe I missed something? But I looked at the specific items that were having the issue (wrong durability) and it seemed to be so.

 

I even did full rebuild of durability, and other voodoo.

 

For now, I explicitly set it using the sliders - which are very helpful.

I wish there was a slider to set the size of an item so I could "repair" mis-sized items that were supposed to fit.

 

Mod that hand out armor as part of quests (and require you to wear it) are not uncommon.

Sometimes you have to ignore those items, then regive them because they must be the exact item, not a MWA modified one.

 

An ability to 'pause' sizing for a while would be super-useful to work around that sort of thing.

 

e.g.

Hit "Pause Sizing"

Advance quest.

Items are given.

Items are auto-tagged MWA ignore.

Hit "Unpause Sizing"

Back to normal, but the quest items are now safe.

 

You could then do it before looting quest chests/corpses, or before initiating those awkward scenes.

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48 minutes ago, Lupine00 said:

I wish there was a slider to set the size of an item so I could "repair" mis-sized items that were supposed to fit.

 

Mod that hand out armor as part of quests (and require you to wear it) are not uncommon.

Sometimes you have to ignore those items, then regive them because they must be the exact item, not a MWA modified one.

What if items that were set in the MCM on the ignore list to make them not degrade, also made them always fit? 

 

Would that be doable/acceptable? 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

I wish there was a slider to set the size of an item so I could "repair" mis-sized items that were supposed to fit.

Shouldn't be too hard. 

1 hour ago, Lupine00 said:

An ability to 'pause' sizing for a while would be super-useful to work around that sort of thing.

There is the 'Everything Fits' toggle. But you kind of need to know before hand that you're about to get something that should fit. 

Anything given while in dialogue or in the console SHOULD fit. Autofit. That feature has been giving me problems with the toggle sticking to on when it shouldn't. 

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1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

There is the 'Everything Fits' toggle. But you kind of need to know before hand that you're about to get something that should fit. 

Anything given while in dialogue or in the console SHOULD fit. Autofit. That feature has been giving me problems with the toggle sticking to on when it shouldn't. 

Yes, that half does it, but if the item needs to be the exact item the mod thought of to work, everything fits just gives you an item you can wear that won't satisfy the quest.

You then have to go through a lot of console steps to get the item into ignore, and then get a copy that isn't broken.

 

Happens with Weapons too. e.g. You need to make X of item Y, but when you make the weapon, it gets transformed into a different one by MWA ... and you were only given enough ingredients to make exactly what was needed, so the console work spins out and out, until you're spending most of an hour to do some trivial quest that was supposed to take five minutes at the forge.

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13 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Mmm, no I don't think it's the slot. I don't remember giving any particular slot any special treatment. 

Got a link to the mod? Searching noheadgear aint so hot. 

 

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

 

My two-bits' worth (if that): Helmet Toggle has worked for me forever, and I haven't noticed (though haven't been carefully watching for) helmet durability issues with it.  I just toggled my current helmet visible/invisible a few times (it uses the usual "convert to circlet" method), no obvious problems.

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To be completely frank. My thoughts around MWA lately are that I might just drop it. It's not very popular and gives me significantly disproportionate problems. 

Working with object refs is a complete nightmare. 

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1 hour ago, Monoman1 said:

To be completely frank. My thoughts around MWA lately are that I might just drop it. It's not very popular and gives me significantly disproportionate problems. 

Working with object refs is a complete nightmare. 

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! 😭

 

I get what you're saying though, it is a very complex mod. But just the size stuff is soooo cool, there is literally nothing else like it in Skyrim moding.

 

The degradation part was better than other similar systems the way you did it, but it was always more bells than whistles. I'd be happy with something like Equipment Durability System if it just handled more slots. But the author is like "naah, no more slots but if some else wants to take over go for it." :P

 

L&D is the closest to getting the same number of armor slots tracked but even it is only like 6 slots... 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

To be completely frank. My thoughts around MWA lately are that I might just drop it. It's not very popular and gives me significantly disproportionate problems. 

Working with object refs is a complete nightmare. 

Considering all the other stuff you have going on, this is pretty understandable.  I think MWA's very strong as-is, and as Corsayr says, it's unique in what it offers.  I think it's a permanent addition to my LO at this stage.  If you want to tinker with it great, but it's already a great addition for me.

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2 hours ago, Corsayr said:

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! 😭

 

I get what you're saying though, it is a very complex mod. But just the size stuff is soooo cool, there is literally nothing else like it in Skyrim moding.

 

The degradation part was better than other similar systems the way you did it, but it was always more bells than whistles. I'd be happy with something like Equipment Durability System if it just handled more slots. But the author is like "naah, no more slots but if some else wants to take over go for it." :P

 

L&D is the closest to getting the same number of armor slots tracked but even it is only like 6 slots... 

 

 

Just to add-on to this... It may sound like I am trying to talk you out of it, but really you should totally close development on MWA. It makes a lot of sense, SL Survival is becoming a monster of a mod, with a huge support base.

 

MWA is never going to have that broad appeal for a couple of reasons

 

1. Most people are too attached to their digital things, and MWA likes to break those things. 😈

2. The complexity of the alias system makes the mod very user involved. It requires a higher degree of understanding of the mechanics of Skyrim to not cause MWA to crash your game.

     a. Little things like don't run up to chest with a thousand items in it and press the take all button) 😁

     b. Bigger things like NIF files and ground items... 

 

You should be proud of the work you did on this mod, you accomplished things no one else even thought to try.

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My thoughts on MWA (Corsayr listed me already as one of "those" users 😄)

 

  • MWA is great to find all those bugged custom armors, and I have a lot of those, so regular CTDs weren't surprising 🥴
  • MWA is a really complex mod just to force the PC to be naked. :classic_ph34r:
  • Thx to MWA I have a pocket mimic now that eats (nearly) everything and poops crafting material. 😏
  • MWA survived the use of automatic weapons, and also broke them after a few bursts ^^ (other wear and tear mods just crashed) 👍
  • MWA MCM settings take hours to be tweaked to fit my gamestyle, and it's not even devious (well, it is a little now 😬).
  • The armor fitting simulation is awesome, but also slows down the gameflow, which is devious devices job on my game. DD + MWA + SLS and my game ends in enslavement and rape just after leaving the starter mod area (okey okey, I could lower the difficulty and remove additional spawn mods, but then it becomes too easy again, so hard to find a middle ground).
  • I craft and enchant more now ⚒️
  • loosing equipment gets a bit annoying after a while, because: MWA = break stuff, SD+ = remove stuff, SLS = remove stuff, defeat = steal stuff, SLUTS = remove stuff... the list goes on and on 😱=> forced naked gameplay! (or stay in a city)
  • already so many papyrus time hungry LL mods in LO 📈

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While I understand the sentiments, this mod has a modest amount of niggles that I believe are more or less unsolvable and will never be completely right no matter how much effort is put in. Skyrim just wasn't meant to do this. 

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This is just my opinion. I think if you trim down some features, the mod might be more appealing.
I was looking for an alternative to Equipment Durability System (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/89035?tab=description) as it doesn't support all slots, and when I found your mod I thought this is it, but some features like refitting for gender/weight feel somewhat like a turn-off as it would slog down the gameplay.
Maybe a 'Mortal Weapon & Armors Lite' with support for NPC/follower could be a better choice.

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2 hours ago, randommaninzawarudo said:

but some features like refitting for gender/weight feel somewhat like a turn-off as it would slog down the gameplay.
Maybe a 'Mortal Weapon & Armors Lite' with support for NPC/follower could be a better choice.

That feature can be turned off easily. 

 

in fact everything can be turned on or off in the MCM 

 

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MW&A is so frustrating.

 

I keep finding that I am carrying duplicated armour and weapons that I've already dropped 5 times. Or it replicates an item after it's dropped but that item had been enchanted and tempered it's now standard, but there are two.
Wait, why am I encumbered? Oh, that Steel armour is back, along with the long bow and iron war axe.

 

So why don't I just remove it?

 

Because, as someone said, there is nothing else like it in Skyrim Mods and it is awesome! I can't imagine playing without it. Not being able to wear everything I pick up, that I have to pay to git it refitted, It just makes the game a little more challenging but without something as blunt as higher damage or less money.

And it still sort of amuses me when my characters robes are burnt off in dragon fire and she starts swearing and declaring  "This is Bullshit!" and a few other comments. Ok I changed the sound files but that is something that anyone can do.

 

I totally understand it being too much work. Trying to keep up with all the mods out there that have use armour slots to equip effects (Estrus I recently found it, no need to worry, that mods as buggy af and doesn't play well with SL based mods) or us requesting you make and item exempt as it's bugged or essential to something or whatever else.
Along with all of us asking for compatibility with whatever else there is out there.

If you feel you have to stop supporting it, I wouldn't blame. Just please don't delete it, it's too good a mod and I'd hate to do a reinstall one day and find it's not there.

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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

I enjoy the hell out of this mod.  You've done one hell of a job with it, and it's become a staple of my LO as well.  If you gotta drop it, though, do so.  You've got so many irons in the fire I'm amazed you're managing to somewhat keep up with them all.

 

MWA will forever be my favorite durability mod, just for it's exceptional complexity and the sheer amount of flexibility afforded by your dedication to making damn near everything toggleable via the MCM.

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I'm in two minds on this:

 

1) Nooooooo! (me too)

I find most of what MWA does to be useful in my game, and combined with Burdens of Skyrim, it keeps "free gear" very much under control.

It's also so close to feature complete, and the bugs are ... tolerably rare.

 

2) It is a very heavyweight approach to limiting loot usefulness and cash sinking.

Maybe there is a much simpler, cheaper way to get similar results?

It does interfere with a surprising number of quests.

 

 

If MWA had a slider to adjust fit for a specific item, like the current durability sliders, and if there were a way to "pause" it, and if it could be toggled separately for weapons...

It would be done as far as I'm concerned. I do notice some bugs, but not often.

 

Personally, I could happily turn off the MWA uniqueness for all weapons and be done with it.

I set weapon durability high for everything except bows and staves, so I rarely break one, even untempered.

This would fix all the cases where I have to craft a specific weapon etc. too.

 

 

Armor is a different story.

All my current problems with armor revolve around mods that expect me to craft clothes/armor, or give me clothing/armor and expect me to wear it.

 

If the procedure required to make an NPC act as a tailor or smithing repairer were well documented that would help too, but no code changes needed for that I hope?

 

While it may not be popular, I think that's partly due to it having the wrong name, and partly because it's on LL, and it's more of a Nexus style mod - or was, until the cursed items were added.

 

Personally, I have so little need of weapons and armor breaking in my game. There are so many other problems to deal with.

But the inability to wear/use everything I loot is a huge thing, and much less boring than Player Exhibitionist turning all armor into cash.

However, sometimes a broken item blindsides me, and that is a case for durability, but it probably doesn't happen often enough (in my game) to be worth it.

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The mod is great, but I've run into a particular problem with it... when using the mod Body Search. it seems that when MWA initializes the data for the player's items, it doesn't set the player as the item's owner. The items are not marked as stolen, but when the guards are doing their thing in Body Search, they see these items as stolen and confiscate them. Dropping the items processed by MWA, using "setownership" console command on them, and picking them up again helps with this, the guards no longer view them as stolen.

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2 hours ago, Warlock3000 said:

The mod is great, but I've run into a particular problem with it... when using the mod Body Search. it seems that when MWA initializes the data for the player's items, it doesn't set the player as the item's owner. The items are not marked as stolen, but when the guards are doing their thing in Body Search, they see these items as stolen and confiscate them. Dropping the items processed by MWA, using "setownership" console command on them, and picking them up again helps with this, the guards no longer view them as stolen.

I'm going to go over MWA again and add SetActorOwner to None whenever an object is dropped and a couple of other small things. See if that fixes the issue. It'll probably be hard to tell though since it won't fix existing issues. 

I believe setting the owner to None is the right way. Setting the owner as the player actually causes guards to confiscate the item believe it or not. 

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10 hours ago, Monoman1 said:

Setting the owner as the player actually causes guards to confiscate the item believe it or not. 

Hm, I don't know - i used "setownership" without arguments, and it helped. This page says this about setownership:

Quote

If you don't add the parameter, the default owner would be yourself

I don't know if that's correct or not.

 

Note that the items being confiscated were the ones added to the player on start by "Alternate Start - Live Another Life", and the ones added by "AddItemMenu" - in both cases, only if they were processed by MWA. Not sure if it would happens with items picked up normally.

 

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12 hours ago, Warlock3000 said:

Hm, I don't know - i used "setownership" without arguments

Probably because without any arguments it is setting ownership to none. 

 

Had this problem in survival too which was setting the owner of licences as the player. But people kept having them taken by the guard until I set ownership to none. 

It makes sense in a way that anything owned by none isn't stolen. Saves the game setting ownership on every item. 

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