Devious Devices - Laura's Bondage Shop (11-dec-2023) V3.43

[Laura]

23 hours ago, samuelmc1998 said:

hey laura

 

love the mod and all the quests that come with it, but im having a problem i hope you could help me with.

i'm curently playing locked away with the mcm set to the standart, only i never seem to get freed. if i'm not mistaken i'm supposed to way for her the belt to open right? its been well over the base max value but im still wearing it, and it is getting tedious. is there a way to force end the quest?

 

ps, looking at the name: een Nederlander  ?

 

Fijn dat je het leuk vind. ?

The MCM settings are used when you start the quest. The days you have to wear it are already determined when you're wearing it and so changing it later doesn't work.

 

The default is between 14 and 28 days and you ask her to remove it. But be careful, she can extend the time when you ask to remove it too early. That's what probably happened to you.

There is currently no way to remove it early.

[UnEvenSteven]

I believe I've seen mention of a potential quest or quests in the future where Laura sends the player to find unique or cursed devices. If you ever do create such a quest maybe consider using Aradia's Devious Devices. Only if you can get permission to use them, of course. While the previous link isn't the normal version it does support UUNP Bodyslide and there is a CBBE Bodyslide version here. If possible it'd be best to include the Bodyslide files in your mod so users don't have to chase files down.

 

It's a shame Aradia's Devices aren't really used in anything. It'd be interesting to see them put to use in a quest Laura sends the player on. Simple idea, Laura sends the player out to retrieve these devices from various locations but they're cursed and are forcibly locked on the player after acquiring the whole set. The only way to remove the curse and devices would be the complete the previous owner's quest, freeing their spirit or something.

 

EDIT: The previous owner could be warrior who had this set of devices made specially for them. Made out of a durable metal and boasting protective enchantments these devices could provide protection similar to a full set of armor. Of course they also provide other means of protection. But the warrior tragically fell in battle and her devices were taken, sold and have been scattered around the province over the years. Rumors surrounding the devices say the warrior may haunt the devices, her spirit split between them. The warrior's spirit lingers in hopes someone will find the devices, bring them together and finish her quest so she can finally move on.

[Laura]

12 hours ago, UnEvenSteven said:

I believe I've seen mention of a potential quest or quests in the future where Laura sends the player to find unique or cursed devices. If you ever do create such a quest maybe consider using Aradia's Devious Devices. Only if you can get permission to use them, of course. While the previous link isn't the normal version it does support UUNP Bodyslide and there is a CBBE Bodyslide version here. If possible it'd be best to include the Bodyslide files in your mod so users don't have to chase files down.

 

It's a shame Aradia's Devices aren't really used in anything. It'd be interesting to see them put to use in a quest Laura sends the player on. Simple idea, Laura sends the player out to retrieve these devices from various locations but they're cursed and are forcibly locked on the player after acquiring the whole set. The only way to remove the curse and devices would be the complete the previous owner's quest, freeing their spirit or something.

 

EDIT: The previous owner could be warrior who had this set of devices made specially for them. Made out of a durable metal and boasting protective enchantments these devices could provide protection similar to a full set of armor. Of course they also provide other means of protection. But the warrior tragically fell in battle and her devices were taken, sold and have been scattered around the province over the years. Rumors surrounding the devices say the warrior may haunt the devices, her spirit split between them. The warrior's spirit lingers in hopes someone will find the devices, bring them together and finish her quest so she can finally move on.

Thanks for the suggestion.

I know about them, but I don't really like them.

They're not my taste. So I don't plan on using them.

[Neico7500]

Hello Laura. I absolutely adore your mod. The quest is everything I wanted in a devious device quest. Tank you very much for this fantasy that you turned into a reality!

I hope that you continue working on the mod and that you expand the quest further. I'm really excited to play the next quest.

[Laura]

32 minutes ago, Neico7500 said:

Hello Laura. I absolutely adore your mod. The quest is everything I wanted in a devious device quest. Tank you very much for this fantasy that you turned into a reality!

I hope that you continue working on the mod and that you expand the quest further. I'm really excited to play the next quest.

That's very kind. ?

I'm working on a new quest at the moment, but you'll have to patient.

[hexenhaus]

On 11/19/2018 at 8:37 PM, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

Fijn dat je het leuk vind. ?

The MCM settings are used when you start the quest. The days you have to wear it are already determined when you're wearing it and so changing it later doesn't work.

 

The default is between 14 and 28 days and you ask her to remove it. But be careful, she can extend the time when you ask to remove it too early. That's what probably happened to you.

There is currently no way to remove it early.

Even console does not work (setstage LauraSecureBeltQuest 20) - it just ends the quest but you are still locked. Maybe add more stages for unequipping stuff, so that i can actually be used to free yourself or add a MCM button to end the quest early.

I have no problem that Laura is boss and you cannot remove the belt immediatly, but this is just ridiculous! Especially,if you get the BallGag she can equip. If you are running with need-mods and are slowed, you have no means to earn enough money to buy a key and you cannot talk to a blacksmith either. Depending on your settings you can also die...

 

Really immersion breaking!!!

 

You can talk to Laura and followers but no one else, while you starve, maybe die,  can't do shit but press T, while Timers from other mods expire - maybe breaking other things.

 

Some things to adress these problems:

• replace Ballgag with PanelGag
• put the additional restrains on seperate timers (e.g. 12h)
• change the default settings to something handable (e.g. 1-3 / 3-7)
• as a failsafe:
  • MCM option to end timer early
  • add additional queststages or edit quest so that belt gets removed at quest completion.

 

What I don't get is that Laura is not more clear about the arrangement... she could easily tell you that it may take some time before she will realease you. If you are like me and like to explore stuff without checking the MCM of a mod immediatly to spoiler yourself, you are stuck without means of escape...

Why not make it a trial and if you come back early she offers you a raise in compensation if you stay locked - which could be repeatable.

The way it is handled at the moment is highly inconvenient and incompatible with other mods!

 

For the moment I replaced the BallGag with an open one, to let my PC eat at least...

 

My original game-plan was that I take Laura's offer to earn some extra coin while doing travelquests for Slaverun, letting my W/T heal up... now I cannot even continue any quests, cause i cannot talk to anyone.

 

======

 

In the end i used DD debug to remove ALL DD (quest-)items and "setstage Laura_SecureBeltQuest 20" to end the quest. 

[Laura]

I added my comments in pink.

 

 

Even console does not work (setstage LauraSecureBeltQuest 20) - it just ends the quest but you are still locked. Maybe add more stages for unequipping stuff, so that i can actually be used to free yourself or add a MCM button to end the quest early.

Making a stage that unequips doesn't seem like a good idea, but I could make a safeword function somewhere.

 

I have no problem that Laura is boss and you cannot remove the belt immediatly, but this is just ridiculous! Especially,if you get the BallGag she can equip. If you are running with need-mods and are slowed, you have no means to earn enough money to buy a key and you cannot talk to a blacksmith either. Depending on your settings you can also die...

Using tough settings for survival mods while using Devious Devices is always a risk.

You can always go back to a previous save when you realise that the gag will kill you.

You could also get an armbinder. That way you can beg for food.

 

Really immersion breaking!!!

I understand your issue, but can you tell me why this is immersion breaking?

 

You can talk to Laura and followers but no one else, while you starve, maybe die,  can't do shit but press T, while Timers from other mods expire - maybe breaking other things.

Waiting by pressing T shouldn't break mods.

 

Some things to adress these problems:

• replace Ballgag with PanelGag

That could work

• put the additional restrains on seperate timers (e.g. 12h)

I was think about doing that. It will probably be in the next update.

• change the default settings to something handable (e.g. 1-3 / 3-7)

I agree that the current default time is too much. I could change the default to 7 to 14 days instead of the 14 to 28 days.

• as a failsafe:
  • MCM option to end timer early
  • add additional queststages or edit quest so that belt gets removed at quest completion.

I could make a safeword function where you can get out. You would then ofcourse forfeit your pay.

 

What I don't get is that Laura is not more clear about the arrangement... she could easily tell you that it may take some time before she will realease you. If you are like me and like to explore stuff without checking the MCM of a mod immediatly to spoiler yourself, you are stuck without means of escape...

Why not make it a trial and if you come back early she offers you a raise in compensation if you stay locked - which could be repeatable.

I assumed that people change the MCM settings to their likings before playing mods.

The way it is handled at the moment is highly inconvenient and incompatible with other mods!

She makes it really clear that you're going to wear an unremovable belt for a while. It's still your choice to start the quest.

 

For the moment I replaced the BallGag with an open one, to let my PC eat at least...

I understand that the ballgag is too harsh for someone that uses survival mods.

 

My original game-plan was that I take Laura's offer to earn some extra coin while doing travelquests for Slaverun, letting my W/T heal up... now I cannot even continue any quests, cause i cannot talk to anyone.

I suggest that you make escaping restraints a bit easier if you're having too much trouble with gags.

[kempo95]

6 hours ago, hexenhaus said:

you are stuck without means of escape...

That is also kinda the point of this quest/mod though. As is Devious Devices in general.

[Laura]

1 hour ago, kempo95 said:

That is also kinda the point of this quest/mod though. As is Devious Devices in general.

That's true.

I realise that the default time to wear the belt is too long, but a chastity belt isn't that restrictive ingame.

[an awkward situation]

What a weird thing to complain about. The gag is not even a quest item, there are many ways and mods to get out of it.

Other mods (DCL for example) can be _a lot_ more punishing, there's a reason why you can choose the escape difficulty.

[Laura]

37 minutes ago, an awkward situation said:

What a weird thing to complain about. The gag is not even a quest item, there are many ways and mods to get out of it.

Other mods (DCL for example) can be _a lot_ more punishing, there's a reason why you can choose the escape difficulty.

Yeah, I made it a regular gag for that reason. That way the difficulty is in the player's hands.

I understand that the default time is too long and I'll change it for the next update. I just assumed everyone checked the MCM before playing.

I don't want to come across as mean to hexenhaus, but I don't fully understand his issue.

Devious Devices has survival mod compatibility built in and the difficulty is fully configurable.

[HexBolt8]

1 hour ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

Yeah, I made it a regular gag for that reason. That way the difficulty is in the player's hands.

I understand that the default time is too long and I'll change it for the next update. I just assumed everyone checked the MCM before playing.

I don't want to come across as mean to hexenhaus, but I don't fully understand his issue.

Devious Devices has survival mod compatibility built in and the difficulty is fully configurable.

I think you're exactly right on this.  Your decision to reduce the default time seems reasonable, but I wouldn't bother with things like a safeword. 

 

You're not being being mean to hexenhaus.  Very few people refuse to look at a mod's MCM settings.  That borders on not reading the manual.  Mod authors provide configurable settings so players can tailor the experience to their liking.  If a player doesn't look at those settings it's not the author's problem.  I understand the desire to limit spoilers, but hexenhaus also faulted the mod because Laura was not "more clear about the arrangement".  Wouldn't that be a spoiler if she provided more details?  It seems clear enough what the player is getting into, and people using restrictive needs mods or punishing DD settings might have to temporarily reduce the difficulty, or load an earlier save and skip the deal if it's more than they wanted. 

 

It's impossible to please everyone.  Don't think that you have to engineer a lot of changes because of one complaint.

[Laura]

1 hour ago, HexBolt8 said:

I think you're exactly right on this.  Your decision to reduce the default time seems reasonable, but I wouldn't bother with things like a safeword. 

 

You're not being being mean to hexenhaus.  Very few people refuse to look at a mod's MCM settings.  That borders on not reading the manual.  Mod authors provide configurable settings so players can tailor the experience to their liking.  If a player doesn't look at those settings it's not the author's problem.  I understand the desire to limit spoilers, but hexenhaus also faulted the mod because Laura was not "more clear about the arrangement".  Wouldn't that be a spoiler if she provided more details?  It seems clear enough what the player is getting into, and people using restrictive needs mods or punishing DD settings might have to temporarily reduce the difficulty, or load an earlier save and skip the deal if it's more than they wanted. 

 

It's impossible to please everyone.  Don't think that you have to engineer a lot of changes because of one complaint.

Thanks for your support.

I want to keep people happy, but I also know that I'm striving for something that's impossible. I will never satisfy everyone.

 

But I agree that complaining about being surprised after saying you don't look at the change log or MCM is a bit silly.

[WaterRabbit]

My two cents is the quests lack choice/consequence/complications -- an illusion of agency.  They are very linear so far.  The advantage of a computer game over a visual novel is the ability for the player to direct the narrative to some extent. 

 

The Strange Rock quest looks ripe for Lucille Ball like complications or patterned like the quest "A Night to Remember" in the base game (each character in the quest has a complication that can be resolved in a number of different ways). 

 

The beginning of the second quest (since it looks like you have more plans for it) suffers from too much player standing around doing nothing while NPCs talk to each other very slowly -- definitely saps character agency.  The complication to the quest was quite amusing, but the standing around doing nothing deflated the quest.

 

If you haven't looked at the "Thief" mod here on LL, you might look at it as it have very good quest construction with complications and choices -- enough to support 2-3 replays.

 

Otherwise, the shop is just becomes a place to sell devious items.  

[JulioRosario89]

8 hours ago, WaterRabbit said:

My two cents is the quests lack choice/consequence/complications -- an illusion of agency.  They are very linear so far.  The advantage of a computer game over a visual novel is the ability for the player to direct the narrative to some extent. 

 

The Strange Rock quest looks ripe for Lucille Ball like complications or patterned like the quest "A Night to Remember" in the base game (each character in the quest has a complication that can be resolved in a number of different ways). 

 

The beginning of the second quest (since it looks like you have more plans for it) suffers from too much player standing around doing nothing while NPCs talk to each other very slowly -- definitely saps character agency.  The complication to the quest was quite amusing, but the standing around doing nothing deflated the quest.

 

Otherwise, the shop is just becomes a place to sell devious items.  

I would like to disagree with you, even though it's just my opinion. I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think that adding extensive player choice in the first two quests is a good idea in this case. A Strange Rock is a pretty simple task to fulfill and allows you to get to know the characters a bit. What is Laura's deal? How does she relate to Kat and so on. Also, given the setup, there is no reason for the various characters to withold information until you solve their problems. It's just a worthless rock they could do nothing with anyway, right? Why should you work to get to know where it is?

What she deserves I think stands as what I consider the perfect quest in a DD playthrough. And my next comment goes into spoiler to not ruin it for people who haven't played it  yet:

 

Spoiler

First of all, I did expect that Jade would turn the tables on my PC, but not that she was the woman I was looking for in the blue palace. It dawned on me when she asked me if I ever stole stuff, but then it was already too late. (As I mentioned in a previous post, this is where different scenarios with Jade could be decided later on. Are you a goody-two-shoes or a crook?)

Secondly, having fast travel available was a bliss. I was only testing the mod at the time and having to walk back to the shop would have been a chore. (Unrelated to the current discussion, but I just wanted to say it)

And thirdly, while the PC is in the cage, you don't know how long or short the quest will be and if you can be enslaved or not. For me it was more trying to unlock the armbinder and prove I was not Jade before I got enslaved, rather than just standing around. And the dialog provided a bit of entertainment while I was waiting for DD to tell me if I managed to get out or not. Also, what was being said provided a timer of sorts, without the need to have a clock visible. They go to bed, when they come back the time is up. Smooth and simple. Of course, the quest ends with you beeing freed, but since I didn't know that at the time, having a possible, and not confirmed, time limit spiced things up quite a bit.

 

So to be honest, I consider the starting quests good as they are and would not like to see them changed. I would rather see where Laura is taking us in the new quests that are coming.

[Laura]

16 hours ago, WaterRabbit said:

My two cents is the quests lack choice/consequence/complications -- an illusion of agency.  They are very linear so far.  The advantage of a computer game over a visual novel is the ability for the player to direct the narrative to some extent. 

 

The Strange Rock quest looks ripe for Lucille Ball like complications or patterned like the quest "A Night to Remember" in the base game (each character in the quest has a complication that can be resolved in a number of different ways). 

 

The beginning of the second quest (since it looks like you have more plans for it) suffers from too much player standing around doing nothing while NPCs talk to each other very slowly -- definitely saps character agency.  The complication to the quest was quite amusing, but the standing around doing nothing deflated the quest.

 

If you haven't looked at the "Thief" mod here on LL, you might look at it as it have very good quest construction with complications and choices -- enough to support 2-3 replays.

 

Otherwise, the shop is just becomes a place to sell devious items.  

I understand what you mean. But you have to realise that making something with choice, consequence and complications is very hard to do. It's a ton more work and a lot of people get it wrong when make something like that. I'm just 1 person that made this in my free time. Having 6 branches and 3 endings for a story is not feasable for me. I could make different endings for the story, but not for the introduction quest.

I want to tell a story. I'm not a big fan of the "You're a recruit that turns out to be the chosen one" type of thing.

 

The quest [A Strange Rock] is the first quest I made, so I kept it simple.

[What She Deserves] is just an excuse to use scenes, use the jail and a way to practice making quests.

I know they have potential and that's why I kept both of them open. [What She Deserves] is like an introduction to a story and [A Strange Rock] introduces the Thotium.

 

Taking away control from the player is a key part of DD quests and it's hard to keep it balanced and interesting.

I really enjoy games and I'm interested in how they're made, but I'm not a game designer.

 

7 hours ago, JulioRosario89 said:

I would like to disagree with you, even though it's just my opinion. I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think that adding extensive player choice in the first two quests is a good idea in this case. A Strange Rock is a pretty simple task to fulfill and allows you to get to know the characters a bit. What is Laura's deal? How does she relate to Kat and so on. Also, given the setup, there is no reason for the various characters to withold information until you solve their problems. It's just a worthless rock they could do nothing with anyway, right? Why should you work to get to know where it is?

What she deserves I think stands as what I consider the perfect quest in a DD playthrough. And my next comment goes into spoiler to not ruin it for people who haven't played it  yet:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

First of all, I did expect that Jade would turn the tables on my PC, but not that she was the woman I was looking for in the blue palace. It dawned on me when she asked me if I ever stole stuff, but then it was already too late. (As I mentioned in a previous post, this is where different scenarios with Jade could be decided later on. Are you a goody-two-shoes or a crook?)

Secondly, having fast travel available was a bliss. I was only testing the mod at the time and having to walk back to the shop would have been a chore. (Unrelated to the current discussion, but I just wanted to say it)

And thirdly, while the PC is in the cage, you don't know how long or short the quest will be and if you can be enslaved or not. For me it was more trying to unlock the armbinder and prove I was not Jade before I got enslaved, rather than just standing around. And the dialog provided a bit of entertainment while I was waiting for DD to tell me if I managed to get out or not. Also, what was being said provided a timer of sorts, without the need to have a clock visible. They go to bed, when they come back the time is up. Smooth and simple. Of course, the quest ends with you beeing freed, but since I didn't know that at the time, having a possible, and not confirmed, time limit spiced things up quite a bit.

 

So to be honest, I consider the starting quests good as they are and would not like to see them changed. I would rather see where Laura is taking us in the new quests that are coming.

Spoiler for What She Deserves:

Spoiler

Keeping the jail scene interesting and having some tension is exactly what I was going for.

I also felt like I had to use @pikachu345's suggestion.

Having you covered and mistaken for the baddie was his idea.

 

[WaterRabbit]

5 hours ago, Laura 'Lokomootje' said:

Taking away control from the player is a key part of DD quests and it's hard to keep it balanced and interesting.

I really enjoy games and I'm interested in how they're made, but I'm not a game designer.

 

Again just my 2 cents, not trying to harsh on you or your work.  I have played with the Creation Kit to try and create just bare bones mods and it is a difficult endeavor.  Creating choice and consequence is work no doubt about it. 

 

I have played hundreds of mods for Skyrim (if not into the thousands).  The mods that I come back to have choice and consequence to them in the quests.  There are hundreds of mods that fall into the straight forward quests (barely different than radiant quests) or that take so much agency away for the player/character that they become visual novels.

 

I only mentioned it because I see potential for the creation of interesting quests in this mod.  Currently, it is pretty much a one and done type of situation.   

 

I disagree that taking control from the player is a key part of DD quests.  Taking control is the setup but not what makes them interesting.  What makes them interesting is having to figure out what to do once the player can act. 

 

It was clear in the What She Deserves quest once the twist was revealed the character lost agency (the inescapable restrains, the cell, etc.).  But even afterward the dialogue didn't provide any agency either.  A person has been kidnapped and about to be sold into slavery to someone that is apparently a very nasty person. All is forgiven is probably not the first choice for a person after being released.  More like why shouldn't I have the guard come down and arrest the two of you?  

 

As it looks like there will be a follow on to that quest, the obvious decision point would be if the character can somehow find a way to communicate who she is before being sold.  It has already been setup through the dialog. You don't have to have the shopkeeper reveal the character's identity to feed the character.

 

All I am suggesting is that if you can at least consider put some choice and consequence into the quests.  They become much more interesting that way.

 

 

[WaterRabbit]

13 hours ago, JulioRosario89 said:

 A Strange Rock is a pretty simple task to fulfill and allows you to get to know the characters a bit. What is Laura's deal? How does she relate to Kat and so on. Also, given the setup, there is no reason for the various characters to withold information until you solve their problems. It's just a worthless rock they could do nothing with anyway, right? Why should you work to get to know where it is?

 

I believe you are thinking too literally about my suggestion.  There are literally hundreds of complications that can be created here that don't involve the NPC purposely withholding the information.

 

The problem with this quest comes is the rock only triggers on the character. Why didn't it trigger on the NPCs when they handled the rock?  From the setup, it seems that the rock was planted to entrap on Laura.  That creates other questions as well.  Also why is it so trivial for Kat to remove the restraints when the character from the temple couldn't?

 

Also just because an NPC believes it to be worthless, doesn't mean that when the PC comes asking about it that the value doesn't instantly increase -- especially if they are have an indifferent relationship with the character.

 

As far as the perfect DD quest? I don't know about the word perfect.  I think I would go for entertaining instead.  Try QAYLs Dinner for Two (which unfortunately looks like it will never be finished). It slowly pulls the character into bondage with the tease she can just walk away.  And while not specifically a DD quest (more focused on humiliation), it works on the same principle: Get Stripped Again in Riften.  It has three major endings with subtle variations in each scenario based upon dialog choices and previous character actions.

 

To me the perfect DD quest is placing the character in a hopeless situation and letting them use their wits and abilities to figure a way out.

[Zaflis]

31 minutes ago, WaterRabbit said:

I only mentioned it because I see potential for the creation of interesting quests in this mod.  Currently, it is pretty much a one and done type of situation.   

..

All I am suggesting is that if you can at least consider put some choice and consequence into the quests.  They become much more interesting that way.

While adding choice can make things interesting, it doesn't add more playable content to the mod kind of. Just more work. That is unless you are willing to keep saving and loading just to see those different outcomes. In my opinion it is better to spend time on more repeatable content and features (or new and different quests) that make sure the mod is still somehow involved for the player for hours to come.

 

I often level up my speech skill to 50, which isn't too difficult when you can buy those levels in bard's college. That means i can even sell restraints to any vendor in game, making shop feature in this mod and Dollmaker mostly redundant. So it's other things that catch interest more.

[JulioRosario89]

18 minutes ago, WaterRabbit said:

As far as the perfect DD quest? I don't know about the word perfect.  I think I would go for entertaining instead.  Try QAYLs Dinner for Two (which unfortunately looks like it will never be finished). It slowly pulls the character into bondage with the tease she can just walk away.  And while not specifically a DD quest (more focused on humiliation), it works on the same principle: Get Stripped Again in Riften.  It has three major endings with subtle variations in each scenario based upon dialog choices and previous character actions.

 

To me the perfect DD quest is placing the character in a hopeless situation and letting them use their wits and abilities to figure a way out. 

Ok, I don't really want to start an argument here, as this is hardly the place. But I do want to point out, as Laura already did, that those two quests we are talking about are both introductions. I consider them perfect, What she deserves in particular, because they basically sucked me in and got me hooked for more. As introductory quests should do.

To quote your example, Quick as you like (I assume this is what you mean by QAYL) never got me hooked. I never played the quest you mentioned, because getting there is a chore (again I assume, since I never got past the first race). As a person who has only limited time to play, the first race is too long and honestly quite boring and I don't want to spend hours trying to find something that gets me into a mod. What I want a sweet and well written start that shows me what the mod is about and will be about. If I like it, I keep playing, if not, I will not waste my time on it. This mod does just that with the first two quests: it shows you what to expect and sets a tone. Thus, I consider it, so far, perfect and exactly what I am looking for and have hardly found in any other DD mod.

But as I said in the beginning, I can see your point and am not writing this to argue, I just wanted to express the fact that I don't see the introductory quests improved by adding more player agency

[kempo95]

15 hours ago, WaterRabbit said:

The problem with this quest comes is the rock only triggers on the character. Why didn't it trigger on the NPCs when they handled the rock?  From the setup, it seems that the rock was planted to entrap on Laura. 

This has some reason to it though. As said by Laura, the rock only triggers on people who want it.

[Laura]

Spoiler

On 11/22/2018 at 11:54 PM, Zaflis said:

While adding choice can make things interesting, it doesn't add more playable content to the mod kind of. Just more work. That is unless you are willing to keep saving and loading just to see those different outcomes. In my opinion it is better to spend time on more repeatable content and features (or new and different quests) that make sure the mod is still somehow involved for the player for hours to come.

 

I often level up my speech skill to 50, which isn't too difficult when you can buy those levels in bard's college. That means i can even sell restraints to any vendor in game, making shop feature in this mod and Dollmaker mostly redundant. So it's other things that catch interest more.

 

On 11/23/2018 at 12:25 AM, JulioRosario89 said:

Ok, I don't really want to start an argument here, as this is hardly the place. But I do want to point out, as Laura already did, that those two quests we are talking about are both introductions. I consider them perfect, What she deserves in particular, because they basically sucked me in and got me hooked for more. As introductory quests should do.

To quote your example, Quick as you like (I assume this is what you mean by QAYL) never got me hooked. I never played the quest you mentioned, because getting there is a chore (again I assume, since I never got past the first race). As a person who has only limited time to play, the first race is too long and honestly quite boring and I don't want to spend hours trying to find something that gets me into a mod. What I want a sweet and well written start that shows me what the mod is about and will be about. If I like it, I keep playing, if not, I will not waste my time on it. This mod does just that with the first two quests: it shows you what to expect and sets a tone. Thus, I consider it, so far, perfect and exactly what I am looking for and have hardly found in any other DD mod.

But as I said in the beginning, I can see your point and am not writing this to argue, I just wanted to express the fact that I don't see the introductory quests improved by adding more player agency

 

 

You all have a point. Giving the player a choice is a good thing.

Right now it's: Walk there and see what happens.

It's also amplified because there is currently no combat either.

 

But having 3 endings for an introduction quest is not a good idea.

 

They're both a bit like experiments for me. I tried something new every quest.

 

20 hours ago, kempo95 said:

This has some reason to it though. As said by Laura, the rock only triggers on people who want it.

 

Yeah, the rock is tied to the curse in some way.

And Laura tells you how she thinks the curse works in her dialogue.

 

Here's a quote from the Deviously Cursed Loot page:

Spoiler

It is being said that these devices have it particularly easy to bend a mind when the person in question is already dreaming of sex

 

The curse my mod talks about is obviously the one from DCL and it follows roughly the same rules.

 

[sfeile]

17 hours ago, WaterRabbit said:

Again just my 2 cents, not trying to harsh on you or your work.  I have played with the Creation Kit to try and create just bare bones mods and it is a difficult endeavor.  Creating choice and consequence is work no doubt about it. 

 

I have played hundreds of mods for Skyrim (if not into the thousands).  The mods that I come back to have choice and consequence to them in the quests.  There are hundreds of mods that fall into the straight forward quests (barely different than radiant quests) or that take so much agency away for the player/character that they become visual novels.

 

I only mentioned it because I see potential for the creation of interesting quests in this mod.  Currently, it is pretty much a one and done type of situation.   

 

I disagree that taking control from the player is a key part of DD quests.  Taking control is the setup but not what makes them interesting.  What makes them interesting is having to figure out what to do once the player can act. 

 

It was clear in the What She Deserves quest once the twist was revealed the character lost agency (the inescapable restrains, the cell, etc.).  But even afterward the dialogue didn't provide any agency either.  A person has been kidnapped and about to be sold into slavery to someone that is apparently a very nasty person. All is forgiven is probably not the first choice for a person after being released.  More like why shouldn't I have the guard come down and arrest the two of you?  

 

As it looks like there will be a follow on to that quest, the obvious decision point would be if the character can somehow find a way to communicate who she is before being sold.  It has already been setup through the dialog. You don't have to have the shopkeeper reveal the character's identity to feed the character.

 

All I am suggesting is that if you can at least consider put some choice and consequence into the quests.  They become much more interesting that way.

 

 

Respectfully, we have to remember that this is Laura's first mod. Much of this is learn as you go/in progress work, and progress is still being made.

 

I've not had the time to play the latest version yet, but the version I did play was done well. Laura takes the time to look at and discuss options here in the forums, and seems to be doing things within her capabilities to implement some of those things from the discussions. We can't really expect much more of her than that. 

 

 

 

[Lordmasonworth]

Wow, just wanted to say I am really enjoying this mod! I love the two quest's so far, amazing work!

[Laura]

9 hours ago, Lordmasonworth said:

Wow, just wanted to say I am really enjoying this mod! I love the two quest's so far, amazing work!

Thank you. ?