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Mods and Money!?


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6 minutes ago, khumak said:

The ads that this site uses do not seem to conform to adblock's nonintrusive standard so they all get blocked.  Some sites have started blocking you from viewing their content unless you disable your adblocker.  My solution to that is to stop using that website entirely, this includes a lot of the news pages I used to visit (Forbes is the first one I can remember that started doing it).

OK, can you give us an adult ads provider? Because it is hard as hell to find one.

And LLab ads are really non intrusive, just a banner on top, and on the bottom of the pages. No sounds are produced, or ads moving to grab your attention.

 

We have to pay the servers and the bandwidth.

And the only two revenues for the site are Patreon and Ads.

Whoever is a Supporter will get the ads removed (and the download 10 seconds restriction.)

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2 minutes ago, CPU said:

OK, can you give us an adult ads provider? Because it is hard as hell to find one.

And LLab ads are really non intrusive, just a banner on top, and on the bottom of the pages. No sounds are produced, or ads moving to grab your attention.

 

We have to pay the servers and the bandwidth.

And the only two revenues for the site are Patreon and Ads.

Whoever is a Supporter will get the ads removed (and the download 10 seconds restriction.)

I suspect it's the animated/video ads that are being blocked.  I just tried whitelisting LL and haven't seen anything too horrible so far but they're not static banner ads.  It looks like they're mostly animated gif type ads, but at least there's no audio.

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3 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Or they might just steal your idea and give you nothing knowing that you can't afford to fight them. Lot of that going around these days- a growing plethora of mods for CC to use for example....and they already have according to some claimants.

Modders have been doing this since like forever too.  In terms of armor and clothing, I haven't seen a single skyrim or fo4 patreon yet that has original (i.e. created by the person getting the money) art assets on it. 

 

We have people with advertising threads here on LL linking to stolen assets (from games and worse, from private artists trying to make a living off their skills), also in the actual downloads section too.  Nobody really gives a fuck if it's outside the'community'

 

But then who in their right mind is going to learn 3d modelling and then spend a week or two making an armor set of their own when they can suck up Daz and rendo vendors stuff for free from warez sites and shit it out daily onto patreon.

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I know some people which had to save several years for a cheap PC  to buy and now since recently, pay for mods!

I know some modders who were pretty hard up too.

Here's a thought: if some users are poor, they could learn how to mod! From what I hear you can get fabulously $rich$ with it now.

 

4 hours ago, MadMansGun said:

the sims are a lost cause and dead to me, if i had my way that section of the site would be nuked. 

 

3 hours ago, MadMansGun said:

i know nothing about how or where the server/s is/are setup, so i can't debate the sites running costs or make stupid suggestions like "solar panels" or: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNZove4OTtI

If keeping LL financially secure is to depend on either having the sims scene significantly driving up ad traffic, or Ashal shipping T-shirts and keychains that people may or may not want to order, it's really not a tough choice at all. Sims downloads are also tiny compared to Beth mods, so their 'cost' to the site is much lower. Sims users are, by and large, quite respectful to modders as well. I see people groan sometimes at the number of "last exception" errors Sims users tend to post, but hey, at least they're posting logs at all. Look at my Spunk thread, second post, and imagine why I thought it needed that particular attention-grabbing style... All in all, the sims scene here is alright by me, and we need it.

 

 

 

Anyway, I keep reading how not having to pay for anything is the heart and soul of a modding community.

You'd think everything primarily depends on mods getting made in the first place though? Which requires people doing it. LL's founded on the belief that you can't sustain people making mods, while others get away with telling them what to do or not do. Rule 1 still stands, saying that if you don't like what a modder's doing with their work, to make your own stuff instead. It's their stuff. So if the availability of free stuff is so important, people should just make more, instead of calling modders, of any kind, greedy and entitled. That qualifies as being a jerk to modders.

 

No one denies there are practical, legal and social issues though, and those need addressed.

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9 hours ago, CPU said:

A person that spend all his/her time creating "contents" (can be mods, part of mods, games, videos, etc.)

And tried to pay his/her bills by "selling" (in quotes because the form of retributions are not really strict.)

And pays taxes, according to the rules of the country he/she is living.

 

I personally know at least 7 people (all on LLab) doing that. And I am sure that there are 10 times more. (But I don't know them personally.)

 

For some strange reasons the leitmotif in this topic is:

* You should pay for Sims mods! -> Fine.

* You should pay for Beth games mods! -> Never! They have always been free!

 

And amuses me to read the different point of view of people, in some case modders, in some case just consumers.

Keep in mind that everything that is inside the laws of a Country can be done in that country.

And all countries allow to produce something and then sell it. By paying taxes.

 

And nobody obliges you to buy something.

 

The "no paywall" is fine and acceptable NOT because it is not right to sell mods. But because it is NOT right to sell shitty mods for money (and fraud is illegal pretty much everywhere.)

 

Those 7 people produce mods and have patron but do they require payment for their mods... No at least not any I have seen on LL. They offer the newest features for their patrons and then filter down the versions to the free one for those that don't want to or can't pay.

 

Not all people are crazy and think paying for Sims is fine but Bethesda never...

 

The "nobody obliges you to buy something" is correct for now r/t modding but if the system moves to things being pay to play in modding, it is possible the future will be required to pay for some mods just to get the requirements to be able to play the game modded. You can choose not to mod the game and that is about the only choice in that situation.  That was/is my greatest fear. ... however, I will also be honest and don't see it happening at least any time soon and very likely if it does it will fall under the next part of your statement. Laws of the country. IP laws and copyright laws are pretty serious.  Start selling stuff for games and I suspect ... eventually... (even now) Bethesda and other companies that are creating modding communtes to distribute paid mods will start testing the waters and try to prevent that from happening.

 

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Here's a thought: if some users are poor, they could learn how to mod! From what I hear you can get fabulously $rich$ with it now.

Words can't convey the look on my face with that statement ... lol  People look at one or two super successful mod authors as a baseline of how much $$$ you will be rolling in... lol. Yea... ? good luck for anyone that tries to achieve that...

 

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Sims users are, by and large, quite respectful to modders as well. I see people groan sometimes at the number of "last exception" errors Sims users tend to post, but hey, at least they're posting logs at all. Look at my Spunk thread, second post, and imagine why I thought it needed that particular attention-grabbing style... All in all, the sims scene here is alright by me, and we need it.

^ yes this....  There isn't much to do over on Sims to support other than point people to the documentation that is already excellent for them to use (for those basic issues) They are also generally much more understanding (mostly) for issues or problems and from my limited time putzing around there... willing to work to work to solve the problem and less about ... my game broke, fix it... mentality.  They are very pleasant people for the most part.. authors, support members and users as well. I also agree. We do need Sims people. Users mod authors and the like. If for nothing else to balance out the site and give some opportunities to work with and explore other game systems/mods and groups.

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Anyway, I keep reading how not having to pay for anything is the heart and soul of a modding community.

You'd think everything primarily depends on mods getting made in the first place though? Which requires people doing it. LL's founded on the belief that you can't sustain people making mods, while others get away with telling them what to do or not do. Rule 1 still stands, saying that if you don't like what a modder's doing with their work, to make your own stuff instead. It's their stuff. So if the availability of free stuff is so important, people should just make more, instead of calling modders, of any kind, greedy and entitled. That qualifies as being a jerk to modders.

Discussion on having a free modding community or patron or even pay systems setup is one thing... actually directly telling a mod author what to do with their works is quite another thing. Philosophy discussions is great IMO and lets people vent, discuss and in some cases even change their minds.  Dictation is not something that is beneficial and regardless  of whatever future direction of mods occur (paid, patron, paywall etc) Dictation will, without a doubt in my mind end up in loss of talent, mods, assets, tools, and quite possibly future talent and whatever they can create as I can't see anyone wanting to deal with that on a daily basis. A loss that will exceed any that might occur with changes to the gaming community with regards to money. Of this I have no doubt. 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, CPU said:

@komotor, @Funnybizness, @AnubiSs2167, @TURBODRIVER, @mike24, @R-Lo, etc. etc.

All of them does 100% original content.

Nope.

 

Did not make skeleton, did not make rigs, did not make animobj framework, I've seen at least four animations from Honey Select And Play Home amongst the people you mention, and all of those require hard very much not public assets, conversion and code from AutoDesk.

 

No such animal as 100% mine. Did they 100% create content from that pipeline? Absolutely. Do they 100% own the pipeline used? Not even kinda in any universe, and Komotor has said as such. Furthermore all the advertising for those patreon penniez is done via pornhub/youtube/giphycat/streamable/tumblr and nobody would be downloading shit if didn't have Boris' ENB slapped all over it to make it look like something you'd actually want in the first place.

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11 hours ago, winny257 said:

what, you want seriously claim, that programmer in one greater (Large) games company all are millionaires.
a top programmer earns 73,000 euros a year in Germany, employed by BASF.

Then I think they pay coders better outside of Germany.

 

It should also be noted that game companies pay notoriously low salaries for coders. They can get away with this because so many people just want to be in that industry. A similarly skilled coder willing to make apps and other business software make a lot more.

 

I might have 15 years of first-hand experience with this. But, you decide if I'm making it up! :D

 

Besides all that, if you think that the totals are more than any modder deserves, it would only mean that mods could be priced even lower and still be a fair earning. You are reinforcing the point I was making. .25 cents makes modders "megalomaniacs"? Fine. .10 cents then? The point is that there are so many downloaders that the price only needs to be pennies to support an individual. But, when you insist on only paying corporations, now you have to cover costs for them to put on a show at E3, you have to cover costs for their legion of lawyers, marketers, commercials during the super-bowl and so on. Paying for mods would be a more fair, efficient system that is a win for all parties.

 

3 hours ago, SexDwarf2250 said:

In themselves, there are some good points you make, but I think you have two conflicting views. You argue against part of what I am saying with, "it's a market system (not as if patronage isn't - CC is just no longer a market system for artists, but the same one that gets used in farmer's markets, piecework factories and sweatshops), and that supposedly means that money will attract more quality modders than if it were purely hobbyist or artisanal.

 

However, patronage already involves money being traded for services. From a post I saw above, one mod author makes over 170k a year from their patreon. Overall CC is not really adding anything new, just giving modders the illusion they can all make more money if they can force everyone to pay for their Thomas the Futa Engine Dragon Replacer mod, forgetting the fact that people won't even try it at that point. (Those poor console users excepted.)

 

Certainly, I imagine some will be making a bit more money than before. Will they quit their job over it? I find it unlikely to have much of an impact in that regard, but I know it will increase a resistance to cooperation because collaboration between modders will now have to overcome the mental barrier of "he'll be using bits I made that I could charge for per piece."

 

In either case, your argument is that it's a better market system fit than patronage, but I am skeptical about how much that will matter, if it were true. There's also the inconvenient point that quantity and quality are not interchangable, and a system that encourages cranking out piecework is maybe not the best to encourage content for a genre that is at least as much art as it is mechanics.

Thank you. I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your reply. I am sure it's my own short-coming. But, I'm not sure I follow the criticism exactly.

 

Are you using "CC" as a term for "paid mods"? I see the CC system as not being representative at all of what a paid mod market would be. All that really is is Bethesda hiring people who used to be modders to make DLC. A market would involve the modders themselves naming their price, deciding if/when/what to sell and them taking home at least most of the earnings (a cut presumably going to the site and Bethesda but similar to the proportion taken on the app store).

 

The story on Patreon backs up my point. TurboDriver started making quite a bit through Patreon by offering early builds to Patrons. And now we have more animators actively making animations on a near daily basis, most of them using the exact same model (Patron animations vs public animations). It's a great case study showing how one modder making money encouraged others to try to do the same with a different aspect of the game. The result being a bigger selection of animations than we have seen in any other game that I'm aware of.

 

The app store has the same model and seems to function just fine for everyone. There are a lot of crap apps. But, they don't affect the buyer experience because the ratings system pushes them out of view. The same already happens on Nexus with free mods. There are a lot of crap mods. They don't make any top lists and people just follow the trends to figure out what to download.

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However! Then, on the other hand, you seem to argue "it won't be a threat, because it's a crappy market system," which further puts the nail in the coffin of the above point you made.

It's not that its a crappy market system. It's that its not a market system at all. It's just hiring modders to be employees and making DLC. That they were modders in the past is basically irrelevant to the question of what a market would do. It would be the exact same situation if they had never been modders.

 

What you are saying [about CC] seems to be the equivalent to saying that Bethesda will eventually shut down modding because world expansion mods compete with interest in Far Harbor.

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But the problem with this is, even if I agree, the threat is not necessarily wether it runs the risk of "sucking up" modders into its system. I'm not terribly worried about modders using Creation Club in itself. Good for the console users, I say. But in fact, if CC flounders, the risk for us may be higher, because Zenimax may decide to step up their methods.

 

The risk is that Zenimax and Bethesda decide, for example, that it would improve their market if everyone had their stall in it, even if they don't charge. Simple example, improve the GECK a tiny bit, and spend this goodwill to integrate it with a mod cloud storage system, non-optional of course, something like Steam Workshop, or perhaps through acquiring the Bethesda bits of the Nexus. Now all mods live in the CC space, and it's really, really easy for all modders to click a single button to start selling it for Zenimax themselves. Trust me, this is exactly how the marketing executives will think. "Make it one click to start money rolling." This is a well known market principle.

 

If that happens, and it's not that unlikely, there's a pretty good chance it will ruin or permanently cripple adult content modding even beyond the chance of reducing modder collaboration.

I think that this is a valid concern. I agree that there are many ways to not execute a market in a viable/fair way. And given the history of this I couldn't blame anyone for being skeptical.

 

But, then, that is an argument that relies on Bethesda doing the wrong thing. I'm coming at it more from the perspective of "lets be clear about what would work" and maybe they will listen and do it right. After all, the company is certainly made up of people that enjoy playing these games too. I have to believe that there are people there giving an honest look at all possibilities and considering the pros/cons. 

 

You CAN point to bad decisions of the past and say that is proof that they would just do that again. But, you can just as easily point to the same thing and say that is an example of one failure that they will learn from and not repeat.

 

Skepticism is valid. But, it's not an argument against the mechanics if it were set up right.

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By the way, the free modding community has produced, on Skyrim's Nexus alone, over 54,000 mods. The whole "people won't do stuff they enjoy for free" angle is obvious bullshit.

I haven't made that argument. I've noted the opposite. I've heard no logical reason why the existence of a pay-for-mod market would mean that the same people would not make the same 54,000 mods. It's not an either/or choice.

 

My argument is that the existence of a mod market would expand that number significantly. And it would draw mod authors who don't just happen to have time but those who rely on that skill-set to pay their bills.

 

It would also greatly increase the longevity of popular mods life-spans. As it is now, there are a large number of those 54,000 mods, even popular ones, that have been abandoned.

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PS. Out of curiousity, does the CC license allow you to also distribute your own mods for free once they are on CC, as of right now? That will give a little insight into the thought behind CC strategy, I feel, and what its current stance is toward the hobbyist part of the mod community.

I don't know the answer to this. But, I highly doubt it. I'm sure there is a regular employee agreement that says that the content immediately becomes the property of Zenimax since they are paying for the work.

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28 minutes ago, 27X said:

Nope.

 

Did not make skeleton, did not make rigs, did not make animobj framework, I've seen at least four animations from Honey Select And Play Home amongst the people you mention, and all of those require hard very much not public assets, conversion and code from AutoDesk.

 

If your requirement for being original involves not to use ANY other person's work, there is not a single one person on Earth making truly original content. Creation always involves using what others made before you and build something new on top of it. Using your crude logic you could also label Tolkien as unoriginal, because he invented neither elves or nor the English language.

 

This silly "But you didn't make ALL of it!" argument is coming up time and again, and it's honestly not getting better with old age.

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33 minutes ago, 27X said:

Nope.

 

Did not make skeleton, did not make rigs, did not make animobj framework, I've seen at least four animations from Honey Select And Play Home amongst the people you mention, and all of those require hard very much not public assets, conversion and code from AutoDesk.

 

No such animal as 100% mine. Did they 100% create content from that pipeline? Absolutely. Do they 100% own the pipeline used? Not even kinda in any universe, and Komotor has said as such. Furthermore all the advertising for those patreon penniez is done via pornhub/youtube/giphycat/streamable/tumblr and nobody would be downloading shit if didn't have Boris' ENB slapped all over it to make it look like something you'd actually want in the first place.

komotor:

* did skeletons for creatures (trolls, giants, gouls, orcs), did the rigging (that is freely available) for all such creatures. 

* did animobejcts (meshes, textures, animation with custom HKX, NIF sync, etc.)

funnybizness:

* did all the damaged alternate anims. Only guy that did it.

Anubiss:

* did skeleton for some creatures and rigs

TURBO::

* he did only code, but that is not really important, isn't it?

Mike:

Did rigging

 

Now, I consider your post pure hate, avoid to post something like that in future. (Relax, I will not take any action.)

Be respectful of the people making LLab a good place for modding.

 

And, probably you are forgetting the most important aspect of a community people collaborate together to build something.

In many cases I did the code, komotor, SirNibbles, anubiss, and others did anims and animobejcts, Vioxys did collision boxes, darkconsole did meshes.

What is that? That is a community, and the community is called LoversLab.

Oh, was something paid? Yes. From my own pocket to have all people benefit from the mods.

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34 minutes ago, Alkpaz said:

RC, 27X already mentioned a few pages back.. that most AAA companies are going to a "server-side" model. This effectively means that modding will not be possible with them. I'm pretty sure Beth and EA may just go that route now. EA took a hit when SimCity was server-side a few years ago, but it maybe able to pull it off now, considering how consoles are now less about disk-based gaming and more about digital distro. I don't think Beth really cares about modders for Oldrim, much like EA doesn't really care about The Sims 3. The Sims 4 still has the probability of more DLC releases, and so that may become an issue later. Paradox (Stellaris/Crusader Kings 2) support modding as well, but would they care if CK2/Stellaris modders were to start partial pay-walling mods? Who knows. I know Starbound took a hit with its adult mods due to negative press so that may not be the right course of action for a modder to go partial pay-wall for that game. Oldrim was removed from the Steam Store, but can still be found, but it is not advertised or "put on sale", so Bethesda's focus is on Special Edition.

Didn't understand the "server side" concept. Thanks.

So in essence if this happens, all this discussion (for future games) is moot or useless as we won't likely be able to do this...

It does look as if Bethesda is trying to go that route with the CC concept... (if I understand you correctly.

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1 hour ago, 27X said:

Nope.

 

Did not make skeleton, did not make rigs, did not make animobj framework, I've seen at least four animations from Honey Select And Play Home amongst the people you mention, and all of those require hard very much not public assets, conversion and code from AutoDesk.

 

No such animal as 100% mine. Did they 100% create content from that pipeline? Absolutely. Do they 100% own the pipeline used? Not even kinda in any universe, and Komotor has said as such. Furthermore all the advertising for those patreon penniez is done via pornhub/youtube/giphycat/streamable/tumblr and nobody would be downloading shit if didn't have Boris' ENB slapped all over it to make it look like something you'd actually want in the first place.

I'm not going to touch anything about the others, but do you have any idea how difficult it is to write a script framework like TURBODRIVER's for TS4? TS4's APIs almost fight you when you're trying to create something.  I tried getting into Sims modding there and I could barely get off the ground as the amount of research you need to even do something basic could take months. 

Coding is hard work, it's mostly mental and about having prior experience with whatever language, interface, or libraries you're working with, yet it still takes a lot of planning and prior knowledge.  You can write bad code fast and easy without any planning, but the moment your work goes beyond the scope of your original design you'd need to rewrite everything from scratch. 

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7 minutes ago, Veniat said:

I'm not going to touch anything about the others, but do you have any idea how difficult it is to write a script framework like Turboslayer's for TS4? TS4's APIs almost fight you when you're trying to create something.  I tried getting into Sims modding there and I could barely get off the ground as the amount of research you need to even do something basic could take months. 

Coding is hard work, it's mostly mental and about having prior experience with whatever language, interface, or libraries you're working with, yet it still takes a lot of planning and prior knowledge.  You can write bad code fast and easy without any planning, but the moment your work goes beyond the scope of your original design you'd need to rewrite everything from scratch. 

I'm quite aware the amount of work going into coding, any supposition otherwise on your or CPU's part is entirely your bias, and two of the deleted posts I've made in this thread cover exactly that.

 

Any bias or notion that any of the work entailed is some kind of one click operation is also on your part, as is the us vs them mentality. I have absolutely no use in candy coating anything when this is stuff I have to deal with on a continual basis and have done for almost fifteen years now in the industry itself.

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10 hours ago, winny257 said:

In Germany, this would not be possible at all, the legislation is badass here!
to the first: all violations of copyright end in court!
to the second: every additional income is taxable!
It means to reveal everything and believe me, the black sheep have nothing to laugh here. :classic_laugh:

Does Germany also have the same Uber law that comes before anything else, even freedom/life/liberty, that Uber law being "Lawyers get paid!".

 

 

No matter what is just, sane, righteous or good, a lawyer somewhere had to get paid for it.  Modders have been getting away with it (getting donations for mods) for some time now, mainly because lawyers typically aren't gamers (who have been getting away with getting great content without paying due to the outstanding work of modders).  

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We are all strong on our opinions and with most people making good points on some things, it is easy to see people's points of view at times

CPU  talking about 4 or 5 modders coming together to each do thier part and create something is great, and then paying people to help others out is even better. Does that me it has to be the norm for everyone? No, I think the point is that if your able to do something like that and people make a few bucks, that sweetened  the pot and is a way of showing appreciation. Overhaul as he said it's about a good community

 

Kimy's point is right on, it's like taking your car to the garage, they didn't invent the garage, tools, code readers, hell it's even someone else's knowledge they use, yet we still pay them right?

 

Dagobaking talking about Beth learning from past mistakes I think is a good point as well, Bethesda has to know that the only reason thier games are so popular is because of the modding community, cause without mods, Beth's game are average at best

 

In the end some people will donate, some will pay for early release, some feel mods are owed to them and will never consider donating, and some cannot afford to donate and That is understood as well, I do not think one will berate the other unless they are called out on bullshit statements

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2 minutes ago, Vader666 said:

Its kinda funny how people tend to force others into their believes, even tho they would't even be affected by how those other people are doing things.

It's almost like a religious war. 

Some might and I do get what your saying, in some cases your are right , include comments In This post. I do believe that most people here are just giving their opinion, reasons for thier opinions, and standing behind how they think

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6 minutes ago, Vader666 said:

Its kinda funny how people tend to force others into their believes, even tho they would't even be affected by how those other people are doing things.

It's almost like a religious war. 

You may be a philosophical genius.

 

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At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid.

- Nietzsche

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11 minutes ago, Vader666 said:

Its kinda funny how people tend to force others into their believes, even tho they would't even be affected by how those other people are doing things.

It's almost like a religious war. 

Its kinda funny how people sometimes think a discussion of their beliefs and thoughts somehow mean they are trying to force others to do their bidding. :P

(not a personal attack on you ;)  Your post is just a very clear and concise) 

 

This is a very good discussion, that is if someone is willing to have an open mind.  I sincerely hope that those posting here don't believe they are going to force others to their bidding. As I see it the only people that can stop this is Bethesda lawyers and I doubt they can even do that. ;)

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Mods and money. Hah!

 

So, let's start by laying facts on the most basic plane.

 

  1. Anybody can create a patreon for whatever purpose. For example, I can create one right now for the purpose of people supporting me buying booze.
  2. Anybody can put a link of that patreon on a place of the internet they curate. I mean, it's just money for booze.
  3. If that individual gate content behind donation, it stops being a support and start being a transaction: content for booze.

Point 3 is obviously a no-no in my books. Other than that, arguments simply becomes a pissing contest. So what if creator B didn't create everything? Is the mod gated behind a paywall? If no, then it's an issue between the current maintainer/dev and the previous one.

 

Is it fair? I don't care. As long as you want to support a creator, then do so. If you don't want to, then don't.

 

Modding is more akin to a hobby: you sink in competences, money and time, then gain little in return. If you are actually making money out of modding though, you're doing it wrong. There are two reasons at that, you either are scamming people (and thus invested little to nothing) or you are so competent that you should instead use those skills to get a job with benefits (you'll earn a lot more in the long run than a meager patreon - don't forget that you need to plan for your elderly years). Thing is, asking to be supported isn't akin to demanding to be paid. So the concept of "making money" in this context is ridiculous.

 

Point is that if you're working on something for the community, it is not too much to ask for some support from the most wealthy. Be honest and fair. Obviously the better option would be a cooperative, but that's a bit too complex for me to imagine.

Second point is that the community isn't the modder's boss. An individual makes a mod, then maybe release it and the community has the privilege to use it. At least, that's how I see it: not a commercial exchange.

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3 hours ago, CPU said:

.

komotor:

some AnimObjects using MNC penis meshes....or at least meshes that MNC uses as well (troll & horse for sure, giant & dog possibly but unable to conform because i don't have that SLAL Pack to compare the meshes & texture mapping), therefor only "98% original content"

funnybizness:

some of his creature armbender animations look recycled, not necessarily a bad thing but not "100% original".

Anubiss:

did he actually make a skeleton for something? i don't know what your referring to here, creature rigs use stock skeletons.

TURBO:

don't know him. unfamiliar with there work.

Mike:

don't know him. unfamiliar with there work.

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19 minutes ago, bicobus said:

or you are so competent that you should instead use those skills to get a job with benefits (you'll earn a lot more in the long run than a meager patreon - don't forget that you need to plan for your elderly years).

 

This is what I've been trying to argue. If we could get a reasonable, sanctioned market system, more of those competent people would use those skills for the benefit of mod users.

 

It's ironic because the concept I am being sold is that the reward for doing free modding has something to do with community. But, the directions this thread has gone... Has convinced me otherwise to the point that I'm questioning why continue doing public mods.

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6 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

komotor:

...therefor only "98% original content"...

...not necessarily a bad thing but not "100% original".

 

What the hell are you posting @MadMansGun do you have a real argument or it is just trolling?

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4 hours ago, CPU said:

@komotor, @Funnybizness, @AnubiSs2167, @TURBODRIVER, @mike24, @R-Lo, etc. etc.

All of them does 100% original content.

The 6 words that came prior to what you quoted of mine were kinda important.  Here's the whole sentence again with the important part bolded :

 

"In terms of armor and clothing, I haven't seen a single skyrim or fo4 patreon yet that has original (i.e. created by the person getting the money) art assets on it."

 

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