Mods and Money!?

[MadMansGun]

3 hours ago, CPU said:

let continue to discuss this thread about paywalls.

just disable the ability to use patreon as a mod's external download link, (hell maybe disable the ability to use link's for the download button completely, as far as i know nexus never allowed external downloads) after that the problem should fix itself.

[Veniat]

1 hour ago, MadMansGun said:

just disable the ability to use patreon as a mod's external download link, (hell maybe disable the ability to use link's for the download button completely, as far as i know nexus never allowed external downloads) after that the problem should fix itself.

I've been wondering for a while if it'd be possible to integrate the Patreon API into LL. Like reward pledges with specific titles on LL if they want to use them, use it to manage club authentication, invites for VIP access to specific preview galleries, private discussions in clubs as well.  I don't know whats possible but it'd be great if there was a way to mirror Patreon posts into club blogs so you can get all the mod information in one place rather than trying to keep track of multiple websites. 

[MadMansGun]

??

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Veniat said:

I've been wondering for a while if it'd be possible to integrate the Patreon API into LL. Like reward pledges with specific titles on LL if they want to use them, use it to manage club authentication, invites for VIP access to specific preview galleries, private discussions in clubs as well.  I don't know whats possible but it'd be great if there was a way to mirror Patreon posts into club blogs so you can get all the mod information in one place rather than trying to keep track of multiple websites. 

It would be good.
There are already functions with Discord that work well.
This will require a collaboration with Patreon that said.

[Halstrom]

58 minutes ago, dlc123 said:

STOP, STOP CAME! DO NOT BE ANOTHER DISGRACE. ALL MODIFICATIONS MUST BE FREE!

 

12 minutes ago, dlc123 said:

i know, in the near future, most of the more advanced modders will charge/have a patreon.

All good though because you will be making lots of free mods still won't you?

[Halstrom]

8 hours ago, dlc123 said:

QUESTION FOR THE SAFED MODDERS.

I asked you actually. And what's a "safed" modder?
And STOP SHOUTING! That's so big I can read that from Australia.
My 5 yo can use upper and lower case, did you fail primary school?

[RitualClarity]

11 minutes ago, Halstrom said:

And STOP SHOUTING! That's so big I can read that from Australia.
 

LOL... that was really funny considering you have such poor vision... lol.

[featherfly]

Idk

[nokou]

I don't like the idea paying for mods but there should be an option for if you like the mod you can donate a dollar or a pound or what ever..

I make mods not for money but for me and you guys, when i upload a mod and i see how many times it downloads it makes me happy

because how many downloads shows how many people like my mods.

[_SpaceHamster_]

If a person wants to make a mod and paywall it:

...ok?
Let the person paywall it if he wants to.
It's his work, he decides what he wants to do with it, and if you don't like it, sorry buddy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

If a person wants to make a mod and intends to add optional donations:
Even better!

Not only can everyone use the mod, but people can choose to support said modder by you giving him / her a daily coffee! Or even more.

 

If a person wants to make a mod for himself / herself and decides to release it in public:

Nice.

This was the case with me, i didn't care too much about people wanting what I made. I made it for myself and decided to share it.

 

 

I see absolutely NO PROBLEM at all if people paywall mods. 

It's their work, they do what the fuck they want to do with it. And shouldn't take flak for what they are doing.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Nazzzgul666]

1 hour ago, SpaceHamster_ said:

I see absolutely NO PROBLEM at all if people paywall mods. 

It's their work, they do what the fuck they want to do with it. And shouldn't take flak for what they are doing.

 

Just my 2 cents.

I don't see a problem here either. What i do oppose is if somebody uses a community that lives from free modding as an advertisment plattform for their paywall.

[Nevershouldhavecomehere]

If you mod for free as a hobby, you keep the spirit of modding alive. You are the lifeblood of modding communities.

If you mod for free but take donations and delay stuff by a week or month - completely acceptable way to have a hobby AND make money on the side.

If you mod as a job I think you need to stop modding, period. Get a real job. Ask around in the gaming industry if they need whatever it is you do, you probably are good enough for it, but stop releasing a little bit of content for free and then advertising your patreon on LL or elsewhere like a little piecemeal.

 

I think patreon and others are a mixed blessing, on one hand, they increase the quality of the mods and reward talented/motivated modders, but on the other hand, they make modders extremely entitled. The sense of community is lost for what, a couple bucks per person? If you actually expect people to pay you, you need to find an actual job involving animating/programming/modelling rather than doing it "for free" on a mod site.

 

Not trying to be mean to anyone or point fingers, but some modders really have wrong priorities, we risk modding become what making games has become - from something hobbyists and enthusiasts were doing into a dreadful 6 to 9 job.

[_SpaceHamster_]

29 minutes ago, Nevershouldhavecomehere said:

If you mod for free as a hobby, you keep the spirit of modding alive. You are the lifeblood of modding communities.

If you mod for free but take donations and delay stuff by a week or month - completely acceptable way to have a hobby AND make money on the side.

If you mod as a job I think you need to stop modding, period. Get a real job. Ask around in the gaming industry if they need whatever it is you do, you probably are good enough for it, but stop releasing a little bit of content for free and then advertising your patreon on LL or elsewhere like a little piecemeal.

 

I think patreon and others are a mixed blessing, on one hand, they increase the quality of the mods and reward talented/motivated modders, but on the other hand, they make modders extremely entitled. The sense of community is lost for what, a couple bucks per person? If you actually expect people to pay you, you need to find an actual job involving animating/programming/modelling rather than doing it "for free" on a mod site.

 

Not trying to be mean to anyone or point fingers, but some modders really have wrong priorities, we risk modding become what making games has become - from something hobbyists and enthusiasts were doing into a dreadful 6 to 9 job.

I don't see why you can't make modding your full time job???

You're good at something and people are willing to pay for more content.

Sounds good.

But don't you dare paywall it, or else you are literally Satan! 

 

Someone should think of making modding a full time job when said modder is well aware people will definitely pay for his mods.

 

Paywalling mods will NOT make free modding die. Only if a lot of modders will start paywalling.

But how many modders do you think it'll take for everyone to get in this mindset?
I probably only saw 2 cases here on LL where the modders paywalled their mods and basically used LL as just an advertising platform.

One of which is about to provide free content for all users here in the near future.
How many modders are on this site? A lot.

 

All I'm saying is the chances of free mods disappearing are really low.

As long as this stays, paywalled mods are ok in my opinion.

 

And I have yet to see paywalled mods that are actually expensive.
I'd happily toss 5€ a month to a mod author that makes high quality mods.

[winny257]

7 hours ago, nokou said:

I don't like the idea paying for mods but there should be an option for if you like the mod you can donate a dollar or a pound or what ever..

I make mods not for money but for me and you guys, when i upload a mod and i see how many times it downloads it makes me happy

because how many downloads shows how many people like my mods.

nokou, I like you my Friend. 

[Nevershouldhavecomehere]

38 minutes ago, SpaceHamster_ said:

I don't see why you can't make modding your full time job???

Because at that point you'll use modding sites to demo your paid mods. You're better off getting a consistent paycheck from some company.

[winny257]

1 hour ago, SpaceHamster_ said:

I don't see why you can't make modding your full time job???

You're good at something and people are willing to pay for more content.

Sounds good.

But don't you dare paywall it, or else you are literally Satan! 

 

Someone should think of making modding a full time job when said modder is well aware people will definitely pay for his mods.

 

Paywalling mods will NOT make free modding die. Only if a lot of modders will start paywalling.

But how many modders do you think it'll take for everyone to get in this mindset?
I probably only saw 2 cases here on LL where the modders paywalled their mods and basically used LL as just an advertising platform.

One of which is about to provide free content for all users here in the near future.
How many modders are on this site? A lot.

 

All I'm saying is the chances of free mods disappearing are really low.

As long as this stays, paywalled mods are ok in my opinion.

 

And I have yet to see paywalled mods that are actually expensive.
I'd happily toss 5€ a month to a mod author that makes high quality mods.

Sorry, no offense.
modder with full time job (modding), which?
the most modders here, are only able to modify for Skyrim and Fallout (Bethesda Games) because the construction sets were published.
ask these modders whether they can make a mod for Dragon Age Inquisition or The Witcher 3 (without construction sets)!
I do not think, because most modders are hobby modders and for his hobby to demand money is reprehensible!
Mods from Hobby Modders are their mods, which arise according to their ideas and no mods the people themselves to wish!

 

Point around

[_SpaceHamster_]

37 minutes ago, Nevershouldhavecomehere said:

Because at that point you'll use modding sites to demo your paid mods. You're better off getting a consistent paycheck from some company.

That's why I would provide my mods with free versions for everyone to use. If I were a modder who paywalls.
Users can still download the free version, but it'll lack features that are available in the version where u gotta pay.
Basically, a lite version for free and full version for what, 1-3$?

 

I'm pretty sure if someone really wanted that mod, he / she can happily toss me a dollar.

If you can't afford that, not my problem.

(If you can't afford a single dollar per month for a good mod, then I don't know what else to say.)

 

10 minutes ago, winny257 said:

Sorry, no offense.
modder with full time job (modding), which?
the most modders here, are only able to modify for Skyrim and Fallout (Bethesda Games) because the konstuktions sets were published.
ask these modders whether they can make a mod for Dragon Age Inquisition or The Witcher 3 (without konstuktions sets)!
I do not think, because most modders are hobby modders and for his hobby to demand money is reprehensible!
Mods from Hobby Modders are their mods, which arise according to their ideas and no mods the people themselves to wish!

  

 Point around

No offense taken, just discussing  

 

I didn't say modders with modding as full time job, I said modders who paywall their mods.
I'm not gonna point out names, but if I say SLAL pack you might know who I talk about.

And I looked around a bit more, I actually only see 1 modder with paywall instead of 2. My bad 

 

Blame my English, but I fail to see what you are trying to say? 

If someone says he / she is a hobby modder and demands money, then said person is NOT a hobby modder.

If you straight up demand money for a mod, I can safely assume you just want money for your mods, no matter the quality, or modding is your job.

 

[Jazzman]

The hunt for fool's gold by 3rd-class adventurers that use free modding tools, a free community knowledge base and free community mods for their game they play with free community face and body presets is... very convincing, or is it? Drop me a line should one of these paywalled modders ever reach the company's (here: Bethesda's) hall of fame or that of the gaming community. Until then...

 

...have a good one!

[Halstrom]

5 hours ago, Nevershouldhavecomehere said:

If you mod for free as a hobby, you keep the spirit of modding alive. You are the lifeblood of modding communities.

If you mod for free but take donations and delay stuff by a week or month - completely acceptable way to have a hobby AND make money on the side.

If you mod as a job I think you need to stop modding, period. Get a real job. Ask around in the gaming industry if they need whatever it is you do, you probably are good enough for it, but stop releasing a little bit of content for free and then advertising your patreon on LL or elsewhere like a little piecemeal.

 

I think patreon and others are a mixed blessing, on one hand, they increase the quality of the mods and reward talented/motivated modders, but on the other hand, they make modders extremely entitled. The sense of community is lost for what, a couple bucks per person? If you actually expect people to pay you, you need to find an actual job involving animating/programming/modelling rather than doing it "for free" on a mod site.

 

Not trying to be mean to anyone or point fingers, but some modders really have wrong priorities, we risk modding become what making games has become - from something hobbyists and enthusiasts were doing into a dreadful 6 to 9 job.

Who are you to tell people they can't work for themselves modding and have to work for a company?

[27X]

5 hours ago, SpaceHamster_ said:

2 cases here on LL where the modders paywalled their mods

You aren't looking very hard then.

[27X]

6 hours ago, Alkpaz said:

Komotor is doing just fine. Wicked Whims creator makes 200K USD a year, why even have a job at that point?? Heck why even suffer with student loans or going to class, heck even getting a GED would be worthless if you can just "make a mod" and generate that kind of income. 

Because that money isn't going to last, that's why, and neither is the platform the content is made on.

[khumak]

In the end the market will decide, but IMO most of the mods on the nexus right now are appropriately priced at $0.  I would argue that all of the content on creation club would also be appropriately priced at $0.  Some of the mods I use I would actually pay for if I had to but if I had to pay for all of them then I just wouldn't play Skyrim.  I would switch to a game with a satisfying unmodded experience.  Unlike most games, IMO Skyrim requires at least 200-300 mods for a satisfying experience and paying for each of those mods would be cost prohibitive.

 

I think most modders do it as a hobby, and admittedly that hobby can take a lot of time and expertise but that doesn't necessarily mean they should be paid for that time at a rate comparable to a job.  The part about Creation Club that I think Bethesda got right was directly paying modders to produce the content.  The part they got wrong was the pricing on the consumer side.  A Bruma sized CC mod that was guaranteed to work and seamlessly integrated into the game, sure I'll pay $5 for that.  A retexture for a sword?  Yeah I'll download that for free but I won't pay for it regardless how good the texture is.  Good textures should be part of the base game to begin with.

 

Plenty of people have time consuming hobbies or help people they know with things related to their job that they don't get any compensation for.  Do you pay your neighbor with the green thumb for his flawlessly sculpted landscaping any time you walk by his house?  Do your nontechie friends pay you $100/hour for fixing their computer when they mess it up?  Do you pay your buddy at fishing guide rates for the use of his boat when he takes you fishing?  Do you pay your car savvy friend $100/hour for help with your car?  Do you pay your banker friend $100/hour for financial advice?

 

I don't charge people for help with things I'm good at and I don't pay my friends and relatives for help with things that they're good at either.  That's what my job is for.

 

I do think game companies are kind of dropping the ball by not paying more attention to who the truely gifted modders are and actually offering them real jobs to do that.  I think it's pretty undeniable that people making some of the most essential mods and/or tools would make invaluable members of a development team at a game studio.  Imagine if the next version of Skyrim had all of the features of the top 200 or so mods on nexus integrated into the game because those modders actually worked for Bethesda?  They still wouldn't be able to charge $500 a copy for the next game, but they'd sell a lot more copies of a vastly superior game at the usual AAA rate.

 

What companies like Bethesda need to realize is that they can make more money selling 10x as many copies of a $60 game without paid mods as they could charging $500 per copy for the game + the mods to a much smaller playerbase.  How much more money would Bethesda have made if Skyrim sold as many copies as the latest version of GTA?  It could if they'd get their act together integrating the best mods into the base game and yes that would mean paying modders directly but it would also mean doing so without gouging their customer base.

[dagobaking]

1 hour ago, khumak said:

Plenty of people have time consuming hobbies or help people they know with things related to their job that they don't get any compensation for.  Do you pay your neighbor with the green thumb for his flawlessly sculpted landscaping any time you walk by his house?  Do your nontechie friends pay you $100/hour for fixing their computer when they mess it up?  Do you pay your buddy at fishing guide rates for the use of his boat when he takes you fishing?  Do you pay your car savvy friend $100/hour for help with your car?  Do you pay your banker friend $100/hour for financial advice?

 

I notice that every example here involves helping friends in need who would otherwise have to pay someone to do those things. You don't see the problem with this argument?

[DoctaSax]

6 minutes ago, Halstrom said:

Who are you to tell people they can't work for themselves modding and have to work for a company?

You're forgetting what it's all about, Hal.

 

You probably misread "adult modding community" to mean that we should be about modding together and being adults about it. It's a common mistake, but you've been around long enough to know better. I'm surprised at you.

 

I can tell by your sig that you're one of those, aren't you. Another bloody hippie-dippie do-gooder who thinks that the lifeblood of a modding community is modders getting together and 'freely' sharing know-how and stuff we've made with each other in order to help each other make more stuff, doing the whole cathedral thing. And I can see why you'd think it: without that, nothing of quality gets created. But the truth of the matter is that everyone can pretty much upload whatever rinky-dink mod under whatever conditions and never help out others: as long as users can get it 'for free', that's the heart and soul of modding.

 

So it's only right that those few who'd like compensation for their efforts are expected to instead draw a steady paycheck from an industry that doesn't believe in steady jobs. It's probably better for everyone that they no longer control their creative decisions and make the stuff that the studios want them to make, which we all know will cater to everyone's tastes and just work. That's entirely why we're here, so... it's better for modding overall if modders don't make mods and get real jobs, the bums. Entitled pricks, the lot of them, especially if they want to be able to ask something for something, instead of demanding that everything is for nothing, which is only traditional and proper. It's a disgrace, and destroys the sense of community. Not that anybody's forcing anybody to use a given mod, it's the principle of the thing.

 

After all: wanting something for something isn't fair on those who've always wanted nothing for everything: those who keep the whole thing going with tools, documentation, frameworks, resources and what not. At least that's what people who don't contribute to any of that say. Those who do are probably too busy to articulate for themselves if they have a problem with it, and should be bloody grateful that others take that off their hands.

 

Anyway, enough slapping you around: it's an indulgence and we all know I have better things to do, like making more stuff. Script tutorials for two games, two-three frameworks designed to make other modders look good, a couple of things I hope to do to support vin, and some other projects in various stages of incompletion. Let's hope somebody can use that, for whatever they like, or what's it all for, really.

[thedarkwanderer42]

4 minutes ago, khumak said:

I've never had any problems finding/using Tale of Two Wastelands (and it's fantastic by the way for any Fallout fans).  I could definitely see how they could have gotten into hot water with Bethesda without a rather in depth approval though. 

its a long story, but its mostly because they were using assets from Fallout 3, to the point of more or less distributing the full game for free via their mod. Idk if they still are doing that. I think they just changed it to check for both game's assets to already be installed.

 

There's also the whole thing with Capital Wasteland mod, though afaik that was more due to fear of a takedown rather the Bethesda actually doing anything. If nothing else, it should be an example of how absurd copyright law is, particularly in the United States. (its been like this for awhile though and nobody's cared. I don't think that many people even remember SOPA and its ilk all that much anymore either.)