Battlefield 5 Is A Mess

[Cynical Misanthrope]

5 hours ago, NaughtySeranity said:

They are only showing the possibilities for charakter customisation, you know? 

Some form of customization is all dandy and fine. That has never been the issue. The issue is that DICE have said this is about their ideology and they want to appear on the right side of history. When in reality they want to conflate the extreme outliers of history to virtue signal for their fellow believers that the social-justice purity test has been passed - at the expense of their game. If they really cared about the history as they have claimed to do, and if they are gonna allow anyone to wear face paint or a prosthetic arm on the front line, they should also allow players to use the swastika. Which will never happen. They are actively choosing what can be shown and not shown.

 

What many Battlefield players want is some level of realism where it is important - in this case making things contextual to WWII. But even THEN - that has become a secondary issue to public proclamations about devs making this ideological.

[Pantheress]

On 6/22/2018 at 8:51 PM, Cynical Misanthrope said:

-snip-

 

And you have clearly not read what I have said numerous times in this thread. I hate to repeat myself but I have said that I would love to play as a female soldier such as Lyudmila Pavlichenko, Roza Georgiyevna Shanina or Tanya Baramzina just to mention a few.

Tanya's story is especially emotional due to how she was captured, tortured and executed by the Germans. Or just any female soldier as long as the back story is believable and her goals based on real events. Having options is good as long as you can immerse yourself in a setting that is believable and as close as accurate as possible. One of my favorite games is called Velvet Assassin, which is based on the real life woman Violette Szabo and her objectives.

Although the game is fucking garbage in many aspects, the game is still incredible realistic in terms of what she did and the journey she had.

 

So the issue is not about women being part of the war. Because their were. Although their numbers were incredible low.

Where were you when BF1942 gave us jetpacks? Where you during all of BF2142? Where were you when BF1 gave us zeppelins and abundant automatic weapons? Where is your outrage at the amount of Sturmtigers present, when there literally were more women involved in direct combat than there ever were Sturmtigers produced?

Not a peep from you.

 

DICE gives us the option to play as woman.

PANDEMONIUM!

 

If you want authencity and realism in a BF game, then that ship has long since sailed. I don't know what you're still doing in this franchise, ARMA is that way ->

 

16 hours ago, Cynical Misanthrope said:

and if they are gonna allow anyone to wear face paint or a prosthetic arm on the front line, they should also allow players to use the swastika. Which will never happen. They are actively choosing what can be shown and not shown.

Did you just equate a bit of face paint or prostetic limbs with the symbol that is nearly universally known to stand for hatred, genocide and evil? Now that would definitely be disrespectful towards all the people who fought and died to see the end of the Nazi tyranny in WW2.

[GrimReaper]

On 6/24/2018 at 5:05 AM, Pantheress said:

Where were you when BF1942 gave us jetpacks? Where you during all of BF2142? Where were you when BF1 gave us zeppelins and abundant automatic weapons? Where is your outrage at the amount of Sturmtigers present, when there literally were more women involved in direct combat than there ever were Sturmtigers produced?

Not a peep from you.

 

DICE gives us the option to play as woman.

PANDEMONIUM!

 

If you want authencity and realism in a BF game, then that ship has long since sailed. I don't know what you're still doing in this franchise, ARMA is that way ->

 

Did you just equate a bit of face paint or prostetic limbs with the symbol that is nearly universally known to stand for hatred, genocide and evil? Now that would definitely be disrespectful towards all the people who fought and died to see the end of the Nazi tyranny in WW2.

BF1942 had an addon called Secret Weapons that included stuff like jetpacks, but that was advertised as an over the top 'what if'-scenario from the get-go. As far as I know, these addition were contained in the maps that came with the addon. It was entirely optional and again, never claimed to be authentic or realistic. Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

BF2142 was science-fiction, which makes me wonder if you really did think your argument through.

 

BF1 did receive some criticism for being a bog-standard WW2 game with a WW1 skin. But of course such criticism doesn't generate outrage so nobody really talked about it.

 

That being said, I do wonder if it's a smart move to turn WW2 into an inclusive and diverse playground. Now I personally would say that if you derive any sort of education from a video game you have bigger problems at hand but it's an argument that often gets thrown around, i.e. inappropiate depiction of women propagates sexism or lack of diversity promotes racism and all that so I'll play devils advocate for a moment: Is it really a good idea to depict the Wehrmacht as an inclusive and diverse army?

[Pantheress]

On 6/25/2018 at 5:19 PM, GrimReaper said:

BF1942 had an addon called Secret Weapons that included stuff like jetpacks, but that was advertised as an over the top 'what if'-scenario from the get-go. As far as I know, these addition were contained in the maps that came with the addon. It was entirely optional and again, never claimed to be authentic or realistic. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Oh, hey, just like female soldiers in BF5!

 

"BF2142 was science-fiction, which makes me wonder if you really did think your argument through."

You guys are the ones who keep claiming that the BF series is authentic and realistic.

 

"BF1 did receive some criticism for being a bog-standard WW2 game with a WW1 skin. But of course such criticism doesn't generate outrage so nobody really talked about it."

Probably because the goal isn't to make a historically accurate experience, but to make an engaging and fast-paced first-person shooter. The setting is just the framework and window dressing.

 

"That being said, I do wonder if it's a smart move to turn WW2 into an inclusive and diverse playground. Now I personally would say that if you derive any sort of education from a video game you have bigger problems at hand but it's an argument that often gets thrown around, i.e. inappropiate depiction of women propagates sexism or lack of diversity promotes racism and all that so I'll play devils advocate for a moment: Is it really a good idea to depict the Wehrmacht as an inclusive and diverse army?"

There's no need to play "devil's advocate" when it's evidently clear that all you guys are against is the presence women in BF games, and that's all you really care about, given your obvious, collective disregard towards all the other historically inaccurate aspects of BF5 and its predecessors.

And - why not? The Wehrmacht wasn't the Big Bad of Nazi Germany. They were an army like any other. It's a fucking online shooter made for entertainment, not a documentary. The only ones making a big deal out of the optional female soldiers are the people afraid of "teh wimminz" intruding on their tree house boys only club, and are now threatening to throw the toys out of their pram.

Most of us are just like, "cool; I can make a badass soldier of my own sex now. Wonder if the gameplay is any good."

[GrimReaper]

9 hours ago, Pantheress said:

The Wehrmacht wasn't the Big Bad of Nazi Germany. They were an army like any other.

Ah, the myth of the clean wehrmacht, haven't seen that one in a while. Makes it pretty convenient for me since that part alone is so damn wrong I don't need to bother with the rest of your drivel.

[Cynical Misanthrope]

On 6/27/2018 at 9:34 AM, Pantheress said:

You guys are the ones who keep claiming that the BF series is authentic and realistic.

Ehh no. We have never claimed the games to be authentic. That is something that the developers themselves has claimed they would focus on. And being realistic is of course impossible because such game would likely not be that fun to play, so naturally realism has to be compromised for gameplay. But you can still make a game pretty believable. It's when you start to add aspects to a game that aren't really believable, problems occur. When you rather spend time and resources on something that was incredible rare at the time, at least if we compare it, to it's counter-part than focusing on actually realistic aspects due to ideology it becomes a problem. The WW game for CoD for example, you can play as black nazi woman if you want. Technically there isn't anything wrong with that, but it breaks immersion and is highly unbelievable. Same with several weapons that you could use, that wasn't even close to the battle itself. And playing as a disabled woman (or man) on the front line, is also unbelievable. So the issue is not about women. But the issue is how they choose to introduce them.

So instead of actually honoring real women who fought the war, they just decided to streamline it because SJW's reasons. And they add useless stories which serves no purpose. Such as the front woman being a lesbian.

I mean what the fuck? What is the point with that? What is more important to teach, that some woman on a cover in a war game is a lesbian, or portray women who fought in the war as a hero?

 

Also, the developers decided to add women only for the reason of one of the developers young daughter asked "why is there no women in this game?", and instead of being honest and tell her the truth, they just decided to shit on history.

Women did indeed fight, but that numbers is nothing compared to men who fought. So maybe, just maybe they should actually had put some care and respect instead of sucking the SJW cock.

 

Just look at how much shit the developers of The Witcher and Kingdom Come: Deliverance has received. They have received shit from SJW's just because they aren't "diverse" enough. 

They don't get point with these games at all. The Witcher for example is based on Polish history and folk-lore. It's about the Polish culture. And the game is incredible diverse, but it's not that type of diversity SJW's wants. 

Same with KC:D. It's about a particular time in history in a particular place. 

 

And if we would add the "diverse" aspects SJW's wants, that would make the game incredible unrealistic and unbelievable. It would loose the very intended point of the game. Context and details are important.

 

And I also find it very hypocritical of you saying no to swastika, just because of "hatred, genocide and evil" And yet here you are, on a website where you can mod your game to rape and torture women if you so desire.

What about the Hammer and the Sickle? What about the Iron Cross? What about the Crux and other millions of flags and symbols? The truth is, some symbol will always carries hate. But it can also actually be used for the intended purpose.

The Swastiska is still used in many Asian cultures today. It has several different shapes and angles and meaning. The Swastiska is not a symbol for hate. The Nazis just turned one of the many pieces and made that particular one a symbol for their fascism and hate.

But it does not represent the swastiska as whole. Unless you are close-minded.

 

But I'm not gonna judge you for what mods you use. Because it's not real. It's fantasy. But Skyrim has never claimed to be authentic or realistic, only that the overall aspect and settings is based on something real-life-ish. (I think it was the norse and the Vikings).

Games about war is a different story. Especially WW1 and WWII games. It's something that has actually happened. Pretty recent as well. Relatively speaking that is. And needs to be treated with care and respect.

And BF has always seemed like the more realistic shooter out there (again, relatively speaking) due to their engine when it comes to destruction, bullet drop such.

Playing as a sniper for example, you always had to compensate for the bullet drop. While in CoD you can kill someone from the exact same distance with a regular pistol.

Both games are fine on their own, but one has always focused on a more realistic setting where the skill lies within the player. While the other has been more about luck it seems.

 

But I will now no longer dwell on this. So you don't have to reply to this. You have your opinion and I have mine. Which we are both entitled to. I'm just so disappointed that a game like this, is never executed in a proper way.

Instead it is the usual braindead garbage where we throw in some shit here and there to please some intolerant crowd who thinks it's more important to focus on shallow aspects than actually trying to depict something more realistic and close to history as possible.

I would had fucking loved to play as a female soldier where the champaign actually mirrored real female soldiers and events. But instead we get another whacky overwatch fps.

[Pantheress]

Oh, so hey, I'm going to do that thing you just did and focus on just one, single sentence out of an entire post. That's alright? Cool. Here we go.

19 hours ago, Cynical Misanthrope said:

I would had fucking loved to play as a female soldier where the champaign actually mirrored real female soldiers and events.

Why not go one step further and play a campaign mirroring real soldiers on the Eastern front? German or Soviet, your pick! You get to march through the snow, starve, freeze, get bugged down in snow and mud and eventually perish to an enemy you never saw or had any chance to defend yourself against. Because Battlefield games are about portraying a historically accurate playing experience! Fun? Not in our games!

(That last part was sarcasm, in case you needed clarification.)

[Cynical Misanthrope]

4 hours ago, Pantheress said:

Oh, so hey, I'm going to do that thing you just did and focus on just one, single sentence out of an entire post. That's alright? Cool. Here we go.

Why not go one step further and play a campaign mirroring real soldiers on the Eastern front? German or Soviet, your pick! You get to march through the snow, starve, freeze, get bugged down in snow and mud and eventually perish to an enemy you never saw or had any chance to defend yourself against. Because Battlefield games are about portraying a historically accurate playing experience! Fun? Not in our games!

(That last part was sarcasm, in case you needed clarification.)

Well, you have done nothing than to focus on single sentences I have said in my previous posts. So fair game I guess no?

And I would personally love to play such game as you describe here. Which is why I tend to mod the shit out my games to make them more difficult and more "realistic" (notice the "").

To many games created today with no thought or content in them. Just dumbed down shit for a brain dead consumer who will accept any golden turd given to them.

 

I fucking loved Kingdom Come: Deliverance because your character is more or less a fucking idiot. He can't fight for shit and he can't even read. He is a son of the Blacksmith and spends his days in taverns getting drunk with friends all day.

When shit really hits the fan the firs time in the game, I almost died. I was dead tired after two swings with my sword. But after it was over, it felt really good because the reason I jumped into the fight to begin with, was not because someone or something told me.

In fact my objective was to flee because our village was under attack by an unknown army. But I did so on my own volition because a NPC I recognized from earlier, was being attacked. 

 

And that NPC was a woman who apparently were going to get raped by the enemy NPC soldiers. Which I did not know about at first, but something I discovered much later when I was resting and read the quest log. Because the log said I rescued a woman from getting raped.

At first I had no idea what it meant, and it kinda bothered me until I got that "aha" moment. I wasted the perpetrators time so much, so this lady could escape. And as I said, I almost died in the process.

Because there is no magic or healing potions in this game. If you get hurt, you will have to seek care and rest.

But for once it felt like my actions had consequences and I also felt some sort accomplishment. It felt so good that such random event lead to something so awesome.

 

And during the course of the game, I got better. I learned how to read, and I learn how to fight thanks to tedious training. Soon I could hold my own pretty well, and before I stopped playing, I had become death, destroyer of worlds.

Well not really, but I had finally started to master the combat and I have increased my skills to the degree you could feel it through the game play.

 

So yes, would not mind a more realistic approach in gaming. That is not to say that wacky retarded games can not be fun as well as long as it fits the universe and settings. But when a game's only "strong" points is about the current cancer ideology, it has fucking failed.

[Pantheress]

"Single sentences". Plural, then. I.E. I responded to more than just one. Great, thanks, happy we cleared that up. Maybe you could have done the same, eh?

13 hours ago, Cynical Misanthrope said:

-cool and relevant story, bro-

Bringing up KC:D as a "realistic" game is just lol.

BF5 isn't even out yet, but you're already claiming it has failed. Because it has optional female characters. Not because it features historically inaccurate amounts of tanks, weapons and battle theatres, but because DICE dares to give the player the option of playing as the female gender.

Man, I pity you.

[Cynical Misanthrope]

10 hours ago, Pantheress said:

"Single sentences". Plural, then. I.E. I responded to more than just one. Great, thanks, happy we cleared that up. Maybe you could have done the same, eh?

Bringing up KC:D as a "realistic" game is just lol.

BF5 isn't even out yet, but you're already claiming it has failed. Because it has optional female characters. Not because it features historically inaccurate amounts of tanks, weapons and battle theatres, but because DICE dares to give the player the option of playing as the female gender.

Man, I pity you.

Well alright then, what I meant was that you always focus on a very small portion of the messages that I have posted here instead of reading the whole message. You completely ignore the full context. I have tried to have a discussion by posting quit lengthy replies to give full context in hope that idiots such as yourself would actually try do the same. But no, instead of providing any valid counter-points or reason or even try to see it from our perspective, you just act like a fucking SJW and accuse me of saying things I have never said.

I have been patient and not pointing this out, but the moment I do it myself, all of sudden is a fucking problem. Contradict yourself much?

 

If you're gonna be this fucking ignorant, this conversation is over. The point of a discussion is that both parts provide their opinion and arguments. Not one part accusing the other party none-strop.

But considering that you are still making the same fucking false claims about me having some sort of a problem over the fact that you can choose which gender you wanna play as, just proves you have not even read anything I have said at all.

Not only are you ignorant as fuck, but now you are also actively making false assumptions. I have never ever fucking stated that I have a problem with women being part of the game. So don't fucking make up lies you cunt.

 

I have said from the start that I and many others have a problem with how they fucking choose to introduce them, and that the whole adding women thing to the game, was born out from a question from one of the developers daughters.

There isn't anything wrong with that per say, but to then make a huge fucking deal out of it and then call the fans "sexists" when we asked, "are you fucking serious? This is how you choose to do it?"

Instead of honoring real life solders who actually deserves to be remembered for their bravery, no matter their fucking gender is, they decided to add a woman who is not only apparently a lesbian, but also is disabled and who runs around on the front line with a fucking sniper rifle. They could just had made her neutral in every fucking aspect instead of making her look like some fucking disabled mongo with some blue face paint and cricket bat. This what we, or at least I, have a issue with.

Because I simply do not think you honor someone like this. This is not a fucking Overwatch game. 

 

That is what our issues are. So just stick your fucking false assumptions that we are against women, up your ass. Our issues is about the fucking absurdity of it all. This is exactly kind of shit you can expect from a CoD game. Which is why BF has always seen as the better game overall in it's settings. We don't want BF to become just another CoD game. We want BF to remain as BF. Just look at what happened to MoH. A franchise that actually focused on real life events during WWII. And then all of sudden, they did some kind reboot and the end result was a bleak CoD clone. Which ultimate lead to it's death. And this is what happens when you try to make a game something it's not.

 

And a developer should never add their personal ideology or personal opinions to a game. Because we don't want that shit in our games. Most people play games to escape the struggles of real life and to get away from shit we are constantly bombarded by. However if we are gonna start having personal ideologies and propaganda in our games, then we should also allow games such as Ethnic Cleansing or Islamic Terrorist as well. Because after all, it's just a game right?

 

And I can't even take you seriously either when you actively trying to use the word "realistic" against me. Either you are a fucking idiot, or simply uneducated what the term means in the gaming community. Everybody knows that the word realistic or to be more precise: realistic fiction is often a story or event that could have actually occurred to people or animals in a believable setting. These stories resembles real life, and fictional characters within these stories react similarly to real people. Stories that are classified as realistic fiction have plots that highlight social or personal events or issues that mirror contemporary life. Of course this can stretch out even further Such as having realistic mechanics of your player such as movements, having arms and legs you can see and so on.

 

That is what "realistic" means in terms of video games. Something that could occur, or has occurred.  Or a believable setting. And that fact you completely glossed over the quotation marks which is in general a way to mark a word in way that is not always supposed  to be taken in the literally sense. And the fact that I have to point this out just shows how fucking absurd you are.

 

Anyway, I said "realistic" because I was pointing out the fact that that KC:D  is set in the medieval Kingdom of Bohemia, an Imperial state of the Roman Empire, with a focus on historically accuracy.

To be more precise, the story takes place during a war in Bohemia in 1403.

It focusing heavily on that particular culture in that particular time. It simulates everything from that specific time period such as 15th century period accurate weapons, clothing, combat techniques, and architecture.

The developers made is so real-life realistic as possible, and despite the flaws and bugs in the game, it received massive praise for this. Finally a game was made using a realistic setting and also it was incredible immersive. 

Same with Witcher 3. Even tho, the game is still very over the top it's not entirely unbelievable for that particular settings. The game is fiction, but the game is also based on real life culture and folk-lore.

Witcher 3 is a game that almost every single polish citizen is proud off. CEO even gave the game as gift to Obama when he visited Poland. You can say whatever you want about that, but the actions alone  spoke pretty clear that day.

So with that being said, proper RPG is rare these days, but when KC:D was released it embodies everything a true RPG should embody.

 

Another example is hardcore racing simulators. Everybody fucking knows racing simulator is not real racing. That is why it's called SIMULATOR. Because it tries to simulate real life racing as much as possible. Every single aspect of these games is careful calculated from real life information and numbers in games such as iRacing for example. And real life racing drivers is a big part of the community which then developers listen to, to correct and add accurate information to constantly improve the game. Which why this game is often considered to to be THAT game when it comes to racing simulators. 

 

You use the term realistic because the settings are believe and the events in these settings could actually happen. Or has happened. If you fucking fail to understand this concept, no wonder you have no arguments. 

Which leads me to my last part. When someone writes "-cool and relevant story, bro-" only does so when they have no arguments or nothing of value to say.

I specifically responded to your: 

Quote

Why not go one step further and play a campaign mirroring real soldiers on the Eastern front? German or Soviet, your pick!

You get to march through the snow, starve, freeze, get bugged down in snow and mud and eventually perish to an enemy you never saw or had any chance to defend yourself against.

Because it was the only game I could think of at the time, which in a very lame sense come close to this. Everything you mentioned above, is more or less present in the game KC:D in terms of settings and mechanics.

 

But I know now what kind of person you are. You have demonstrated it over and over. You don't listen. You don't care about details or context. You take things out of context and then add false accusations and assumptions to try prove I have said something I have never said. I have been more than willing to have a discussion to have my views challenged which is why I have provided lengthly responses. Which is more than can be said about you. You have added noting substantial  but fallacies.

If you are gonna continue to act like this, then as I said earlier above, this conversation is over. I wont waste my time on someone as adverse as you. But if you are serious, I am more than happy to continue.

Because you have the right to have your opinion and I have the right to mine. But if you're just gonna hurr durr derp derp "problem with women" hurr hurr derp derp, every single reply to me, then this is over.

[RexxingFlex]

On 5/24/2018 at 9:17 AM, shadowlord445 said:

Ya' know, if they are going down this wild, bombastic, Michael Bay-esque, historically inaccurate path, why not go all out and just make a fantasy game?  Why not a Battlefield set in a wild steampunk world, with imaginative weapons, magic, different races and sexes and classes?

 

Hell, since WW2 has been done to death, and they've done WW1, why not go way, way back in history, and do Battlefield The Crusades.  Can you imagine a game mode where you had to lay siege to the other team's castle? 100 v 100 (I can dream), catapults firing, siege towers rolling, arrows blotting out the sun.

 

*edit*  I just noticed at the :36 second mark, the guy has a katana.  Dice, just fucking make a fantasy game, and go wild.

Could not have put it better myself! But I do have a well constucted and well worded answer to your questions......FANTATHY DOTH NOT THELL ENOUGH COPIETH......WE ARE THE EA EGTHECUTIVE BRAUNCH! WE KNOW MANY TAAAAHNGSSS! NOW WE GO CHANGE DIPERTH HIHIHIHIHIHIHI!!!!

[Guest]

Thread locked for the huge amount of insults and drama.