SexLab Light SE Development Thread - OLD

[vinfamy]

This is the development thread for a 'light' port of SexLab to be used in Skyrim Special Edition. For the stable SexLab Framework used for Skyrim Legendary Edition, please go here: http://www.loverslab.com/files/file/150-skyrim-sexlab-sex-animation-framework-v162-updated-jun-3rd-2016/

 

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 SexLab Light SE v 0.1.0 Released : http://www.loverslab.com/files/file/4432-sexlab-light-se/

Installation Guide | Conversion Guide for Modders | MatchMaker Light SE 

 

If you experience any problems, I need your Papyrus logs, especially those that cover SexLab Light SE initialization to troubleshoot for you!

 

With Ashal's permission, I'm working on a 'light' port of SexLab to Skyrim SE without relying on SKSE64 and PapyrusUtil.

 

You can click on "Follow This Topic" (top-right corner) to keep up-to-date with SexLab Light SE's development.

 

I have nothing but tremendous respect for the Script Extender team, but I seriously doubt SKSE64 will be here in any foreseeable future. I consider SE's 64-bit stability worth the effort, even if SexLab Light SE turns out to be only a temporary solution.

 

Please be aware that a lot of functionality is simply impossible without SKSE64 and PapyrusUtil, while I'm now in a position to promise you some sort of release, please keep your expectations realistic also:

• It will take time. Without SKSE64, a lot of SexLab's code will have to be rewritten with vanilla Papyrus, most likely resulting in 10x lines of code. It would be at least a 50% conversion, 50% new mod (or even more on the latter). Also it will take time because my current priority is on FO4's Four-Play.
• I will try as much as possible to keep SexLab API close to Oldrim - meaning it should be possible for existing SexLab mods that don't rely on SKSE directly to be converted to SSE by their original authors in a matter of hours - but can't guarantee that. However, the SexLab custom events are obviously not available without SKSE64, so there will need to be some workarounds.
• There will be a large reduction in functionality across the board. Most of the 'nice-to-have' features in SexLab will probably not be there.
• Animation alignment might not be as good as Oldrim
• There won't be a proper MCM menu like Oldrim - user customizations will be limited if any at all.

Ashal has offered future help to me if I hit any roadblock for this WIP port. However, please avoid confusing this port with the full Sexlab (all SexLab Light SE releases will have 0.x.x version numbers to avoid confusion). We especially want to clarify that Ashal himself is not responsible for supporting this 'SexLab Light SE' port - please refrain from bombarding him with messages asking for status updates and (after the port gets released) trouble-shooting. All questions about SexLab Light SE before and after its release should be directed to myself only for the time being. Ashal still intends to port the full SexLab to SSE, if and when SKSE64 gets released with all the stuffs he needs.

 

Status Updates:

• 29 Aug: Implemented a replacement for the hook system - pretty much a like-for-like replacement, I'm quite sure most modders will be happy to use/ convert to use it, conversion will be like a 10-min effort. There's no point waiting till the weekend anymore. I'll do some final testing, package everything and I'll release SexLab Light SE 0.1.0 in a few hours! 
• 29 Aug: Tested successfully that a few more SexLab Oldrim mods will work right away with SexLab Light SE without conversion: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/83020-sexlab-light-se-wip-discussion/?p=1993917
• 28 Aug: I'm delighted to confirm that the Oldrim SexLab versions of both Amorous Adventures and SexLab Solutions will work straight away with SexLab Light SE - no need for any patches, resaving the esp or doing anything special - all you'll need to do this weekend is literally install their Oldrim versions in SSE along with SexLab Light SE - and voila. Seems like my effort to keep SexLab API intact isn't for nothing. 
• 28 Aug: Implemented a small but functional MCM (only 11 most important customization options for now) and In-Scene Controls system, a latter being another pleasant surprise (control menu brought up using a Favorite hotkey of your choice)  . Also eliminated any previous (even harmless) errors and warnings in Papyrus logs that have been seen in my set
• 
• 25 Aug: Done adding all the animations (i.e. translating their SLAL json's into Papyrus)  for SexLab Light SE 0.1.0 as its default animations. Ignore the previous number given (I did a find for the phrase "function" which doubles the count due to EndFunction) - the final total number of default animations for 0.1.0 is 803 animations (467 human, 336 creature), each with their numerous stages of course. Still plenty I think
• 24 Aug: All of Leito's SLAL animations are now in. 4 json's translated into Papyrus - 20 to go ... By the end of this, my keyboard will probably have learned how to 'Ctrl + C' and 'Ctrl + V' by itself ... 
• 23 Aug: As I pretty much now have all the core functionality working, the plan for the next couple of days is to add all the animations I got permission for to the SexLab default animations (tedious copy-and-paste mostly), replace the hook system, then make a MCM menu without SkyUI, then finally clean up everything and do extra testing, ensuring no stack dumps etc. After all that, I can see a SexLab Light SE first beta release coming (v0.1.0):This weekend is probably too much of a rush, but probably next weekend (1 - 3 September). It will come out with a SSE version of MatchMaker too so that people can start testing right away. I may also write up a few documents on how to convert a Oldrim SexLab mod to SSE using SexLab Light SE.
• 23 Aug: Got animation tagging to work without SKSE64 and PapyrusUtil. A pleasant surprise this, I previously expected this to be potentially impossible. Quite important as a few SexLab mod authors do prefer to pick specific animations using tags so less work for them to convert to SSE. Also good for that "Pre-sex Foreplay" MCM option.
• 23 Aug: Gotta test 'em all!
• 
  
• 22 Aug: The first creature animation !
• 
• 22 Aug: Currently doing some testing for Fore for his FNIS Creature Pack for SSE (not on Nexus yet). All positive so far.
• 
• 22 Aug: Strap-ons now work perfectly. Got voices to work too. As mentioned before, sounds are already working - so pretty much done on the audio functionality of SexLab
• 
• 22 Aug: Got permissions from Leito86, FunnyBizness, SirNibbles and AnubiSs2167. All their popular SLAL packs will be included in SexLab Light SE by default (SLAL isn't possible due to the lack of json loading).
• 21 Aug: Concurrent scenes and bed use both work fine now. So do solo and threesome scenes. Cum works. Sounds work (penetration, oral, etc), but voices still need looking into
• 
• 21 Aug: Got redressing to work perfectly. Fixed the issue with spells not being unequipped from the actors' hands, as seen in the previous set of screenshots.
• 19 Aug: The first ever multi-stage correctly-aligned animation! There are obviously still issues with the spell still being equipped during sex and no redressing. Thanks Ashal for giving the math formulas that he used for the offset coordinates, which fixed the alignment issue yesterday.
• 
  
• 19 Aug: While trying to fix the alignment, I somehow ended up getting the multi-stages working instead! The animation timers work perfectly and the animation ends as intended too, re-enabling movement, collision and player control etc, but no redressing yet.
• 18 Aug: First animation started using 'SexLab SE' ever - horrendously misaligned (I know why though, shouldn't be too hard to fix), but getting there ...

  

• 18 Aug: Positioning, scaling, stripping, disabling movement and collision, and erection (SOS Light integration) all works fine now. Managed to get it to reach this familiar-looking stage of your typical SexLab scene, just before the actors start animating. The animation database is populated with the default animations, which are grabbed correctly by the API (using the GetAnimationByDefault() method at least), but can't quite get the animations to play yet. Time to hit up Fore I guess . As mentioned before, as soon as I can get the animations to play - SexLab SE can be considered a WIP as far as I'm concerned.
• 

   

• 16 Aug: Just converted most of the animations made for Oldrim into SSE hkx format. As we won't have JSON support for a SLAL-like solution, the idea (subject to obtaining all the animators' permissions and to SexLab SE actually going ahead) is to include the default Oldrim SexLab animations, More Nasty Critters animations and the most popular SLAL packs (Leito's, FunnyBiz's, Nibbles', etc) all as the default animations for SexLab SE.
• 15 Aug:  Triggered a sex scene with MatchMaker, got the actors to strip, move to the wherever the sex takes place, zoom out into third person and send the correct races, genders and number of actors to the SexLab's 'animation search engine'. That animation database is of course empty right now (it's heavily reliant upon PapyrusUtil's list and array stuffs and the added Utility functions from SKSE) so nothing happens after that as expected, so on to finding the most appropriate alternative to populating the animation database. Should be easy enough for tomorrow. According to CPU, might even be do-able without FNIS just like FO4.
• 15 Aug: Wrote a few utility functions to mimic Ashal's PapyrusUtil work with arrays and a function that converts decimal to hex. My math teacher would be proud of me. Quite important as SexLab relies on EditorIDs for races etc, which are hex, but Papyrus (without the help of SKSE and PapyrusUtil) only gives us GetFormID which returns decimal.
• 14 Aug: Got the SexLab system to initialize and install itself successfully on Skyrim SE without throwing any errors
• 
• 14 Aug : I decided that a "Repeal and Replace" approach to this is probably the most efficient method and have commented out all SKSE and PapyrusUtil functions from SexLab, allowing all the SexLab scripts to be recompiled without those, which is a start. So far, based on what I commented out, I think the important ones should be replaceable - so I'll say the possibility of SexLab SE just went up. Now onto replacing them ... 

 

Frequently Asked Questions

 

Q: Wait, aren't you also working on Four-Play Framework for Fallout 4, vinfamy? Does this mean Four-Play get delayed?

A: Absolutely not. Four-Play is my priority and my experience with SexLab Light SE would actually help with Four-Play development. Read this for a more detailed explanation.

 

Q: What's the difference between this and FlowerGirls ?

A: This is more of a framework. My main purpose for this SexLab Light SE port is to hopefully allow authors of Oldrim SexLab mods (think Defeat, SD+, etc) to also make similar light ports to SSE. I want to replace the SKSE and PapyrusUtil element of SexLab, while keeping the structure and API of the framework as intact as possible. Also, this port won't try to be 'Nexus-friendly' in any way: all sort of kinks on LoversLab (aggressive, bestiality) will be supported as much as the lack of SKSE64 and PapyrusUtil allows.

 

Q: Insert SKSE64 speculation here

A: Please avoid speculating and making conspiracy theories about SKSE64, out of respect for what the Script Extender team has done for the community in the past. The last official update from them is "We are creating SKSE64 for the new 64-bit Special Edition. We appreciate your patience while work continues. Currently we don't have a estimated time frame for a beta release of SKSE64. " (3 April 2017). In any case, SexLab Light SE without relying on SKSE64 should serve its purpose as a temporary solution for how ever long the wait for SKSE64 is.

As I pretty much now have all the core functionality working, the plan for the next couple of days is to add all the animations I got permission for to the SexLab default animations (tedious copy-and-paste mostly), replace the hook system, then make a MCM menu without SkyUI, then finally clean up everything and do extra testing, ensuring no stack dumps etc. After all that, I can see a SexLab Light SE first beta release coming (v0.1.0):This weekend is probably too much of a rush, but probably next weekend (1 - 3 September). It will come out with a SSE version of MatchMaker too so that people can start testing right away. I may also write up a few documents on how to convert a Oldrim SexLab mod to SSE using SexLab Light SE.

[Leito86]

Congrats on becoming a Contributor.  Well deserved.

[DykkenTomb]

Vinfamy Thank you for taking the time to show up over here. I know you've been doing a tone of work with FO4 mods as of late. It will definitely be interesting to see what can be done. Do you think you might be able to look into a Dll file plug in and maybe you could see about asking SKSE team for what code they have so far for Skyrim SE to be used in creating a plug-in?

 

I know they have already done some work and were able to identify certain plugins for SSE. However, maybe we can start to look for an alternative route using a DLL for Sexlab. I know Meh321 created a small fix for SSE with a new dll file. Do you think it's possible to create something like that? 

[vinfamy]

Vinfamy Thank you for taking the time to show up over here. I know you've been doing a tone of work with FO4 mods as of late. It will definitely be interesting to see what can be done. Do you think you might be able to look into a Dll file plug in and maybe you could see about asking SKSE team for what code they have so far for Skyrim SE to be used in creating a plug-in?

 

I know they have already done some work and were able to identify certain plugins for SSE. However, maybe we can start to look for an alternative route using a DLL for Sexlab. I know Meh321 created a small fix for SSE with a new dll file. Do you think it's possible to create something like that? 

 

I'll make a good-faith attempt using only vanilla Papyrus first. If that fails, then I'll look at dll.

[DykkenTomb]

 

Vinfamy Thank you for taking the time to show up over here. I know you've been doing a tone of work with FO4 mods as of late. It will definitely be interesting to see what can be done. Do you think you might be able to look into a Dll file plug in and maybe you could see about asking SKSE team for what code they have so far for Skyrim SE to be used in creating a plug-in?

 

I know they have already done some work and were able to identify certain plugins for SSE. However, maybe we can start to look for an alternative route using a DLL for Sexlab. I know Meh321 created a small fix for SSE with a new dll file. Do you think it's possible to create something like that? 

 

I'll make a good-faith attempt using only vanilla Papyrus first. If that fails, then I'll look at dll.

 

 

Awesome thank you. Looking forward to see how your results turn out. If only we had someone make some actual hooks I think a lot of this would be easier for modders. 

[khumak]

Great news.  Looking forward to it.  Hopefully at some point we do get SKSE64 and then it can be further polished.

[leyre]

Are you ready to see your inbox filled with people asking you for updates?

[Mertz]

Kudos on doing this, vinfamy. I've been a fan of your stuff for a while.

 

Just out of curiosity, would it make your life easier if you leveraged some of the work that has already been done with Flower Girls SE?

 

There have been several mods (including Amorous Adventures) that have patches to work with Flower GIrls as the animation back-end.

 

[vinfamy]

Kudos on doing this, vinfamy. I've been a fan of your stuff for a while.

 

Just out of curiosity, would it make your life easier if you leveraged some of the work that has already been done with Flower Girls SE?

 

There have been several mods (including Amorous Adventures) that have patches to work with Flower GIrls as the animation back-end.

 

I mean the main purpose of trying to convert SexLab into SE is so that mods like Defeat, SD+, etc that use SexLab can hopefully also be converted and we can potentially port 50% or so of the SexLab Oldrim section to SSE, with reduced functionality. I'm not making an entirely new framework, just going through all of SexLab code, highlight the ones that require SKSE, and attempt to replace them with vanilla Papyrus.

 

Flower Girls seems like quite a closed system - quite the opposite of SexLab. I mean we can't rely on the author of the framework making a patch for each mod like what the Flower Girls author is doing - there's way too many SexLab mods to do that. Also, considering that it's a Nexus mod, I seriously doubt it has any infrastructure to support the vast range of kinks we have here: bestiality, aggressive, futa, devious devices, etc

[Xiderpunk]

 

Kudos on doing this, vinfamy. I've been a fan of your stuff for a while.

 

Just out of curiosity, would it make your life easier if you leveraged some of the work that has already been done with Flower Girls SE?

 

There have been several mods (including Amorous Adventures) that have patches to work with Flower GIrls as the animation back-end.

 

I mean the main purpose of trying to convert SexLab into SE is so that mods like Defeat, SD+, etc that use SexLab can hopefully also be converted and we can potentially port 50% or so of the SexLab Oldrim section to SSE, with reduced functionality. I'm not making an entirely new framework, just going through all of SexLab code, highlight the ones that require SKSE, and attempt to replace them with vanilla Papyrus.

 

Flower Girls seems like quite a closed system - quite the opposite of SexLab. I mean we can't rely on the author of the framework making a patch for each mod like what the Flower Girls author is doing - there's way too many SexLab mods to do that. Also, considering that it's a Nexus mod, I seriously doubt it has any infrastructure to support the vast range of kinks we have here: bestiality, aggressive, futa, devious devices, etc

 

 

As the author of FlowerGirls you are correct there, it is not a framework as such.. definitely it is not as open as SexLab was designed to be. I wanted to keep it lightweight. Personally I think it offers an alternative choice and of course I welcome SexLab being ported.

 

I am aware of many of the issues you will have in doing so. Therefore it might speed things up a bit for you to borrow some of the bits that overcome the lack of SKSE.. inventory management for example. I in turn was influenced by the work Chesko did on this, my method is different but it achieves the same thing. These work-arounds represent days or weeks of solid work and refinements so rather than you going through the same process feel free to copy or adapt it for your needs.

 

In terms of your last point..

 

FG does have the infrastructure to support any animations, devious devices will be supported in full without a patch needed. The devices work just like the furniture animations currently in FG, as in initiate a scene close to a chair/work-bench/throne etc. Therefore mod authors placing a device into the world it will be just be supported automatically by FG. Similarly initiating a scene with an actor wearing a device will automatically detect that and play appropriate animations.

 

That said..

 

It will remain a lightweight solution.. it would require a great deal more understanding and involvement to develop mods against it and support animation choices like some of the kinks you describe. Therefore SL would be the better choice for those mods.

 

One last point, both mods can live side-by-side if desired, I purposely named all animation events differently to ensure this was the case. In a perfect world they would draw from the same pool of animations, however upon consideration that would be problematic for both SL and FG.

 

I suspect the reality for most people is a choice between them however.

[vinfamy]

Quick update: Direct SKSE/ PapyrusUtil dependency 'removed' from sslActorLibrary, this script is now SSE-compatible with minor reductions in functionality, so far so good.

 

(easy pickings much lol )

[enderdracolich]

Thanks for making the effort! I had given up on it ever happening (and I know it still might not, but thanks for trying!) To answer your question:

 

"what SexLab functionality/ MCM option you absolutely can or cannot live without?" Creature functionality. I am not sure it is coded differently from NPC-on-NPC or NPC on player functionality, (since I am illiterate at creating mods) but I would really like to see this ported to SSE. Just the basic ability to trigger a scene between the player and a creature would be great. 

[zzz72w3r]

Without using SKSE64 how much of your own SL Kidnapped would need to be re-written or cut entirely? 

[vinfamy]

Without using SKSE64 how much of your own SL Kidnapped would need to be re-written or cut entirely? 

 

Not that bad. I will have to find an alternative way for the MCM, but apart from that, provided that SexLab itself can be ported, Kidnapped (and Dovahkiin's Infamy, Drunk, etc) should be fine to port.

 

That's mostly the case for most SexLab mods to be fair: most don't rely on SKSE directly apart from the MCM. Some use some SKSE stuffs like key press functionality and such (Defeat) but taking those out won't break the mod

 

The ones that would have real problems even if SexLab is ported are the creature schlong functionality of MNC (animations are fine), Beeing Female, SlaveTats, etc - you get the idea

 

Update: I decided that a "Repeal and Replace" approach to this is probably the most efficient method and have commented out all SKSE and PapyrusUtil functions from SexLab, allowing all the scripts to be recompiled without those. So far, based on what I commented out, I think the important ones should be replaceable - so I'll say the possibility of SexLab SE just went up. Now onto replacing them ...

[Xiderpunk]

Oh it definitely can be done, SKSE whilst incredibly useful to a developer is not the only route. I have been saying for a long time that there has been almost a hysteria over SKSE due largely to misperception of what it does. The vast majority of mods using it that I have seen barely touch SKSE.. they use MCM and thats about it. SL is of course different and does utilise the benefits of SKSE.

 

The bits I can think of that there is no real work around for would be position adjustments during scenes, control of scenes with key presses. (Well this is a half-truth, there is a method.. but it's horrible and brings with it far to many other issues to be viable). Equipment management (not impossible, it's just the existing SL code won't work, it will need to use a similar work-around like FG uses). MCM, replaceable with ugly option ability as I had to do with FG, it is however workable in the short term until SKSE64 arrives and with-it MCM.

 

 

 

[yatol]

 Equipment management (not impossible, it's just the existing SL code won't work, it will need to use a similar work-around like FG uses).

 

there's no need for that code

that can be taken care of by sexlabnakedbody

you replace that armor addon with a copy paste of skinnakedbody, and give it priority 95 (you keep a marge for custom textures armor, missing arm armor, that kind of stuff)

you add a copy paste of skinnakedhand and feet to sexlabnudesuit armor

and equiping that armor will replace whatever the actor is wearing by the nude body

 

those armor addon will only have a problem with custom race (if it's not load on that race, it won't go nude)

who care about custom race?

[vinfamy]

Another update: Baby step, but at least I got the entire SexLab system to initialize and install itself successfully on Skyrim SE without throwing any errors. Now on to actually triggering an animation ....

 

Once I manage to get the first SexLab animation to work on NewRim, I think I'll be able to say with certainty that SexLab SE will be a thing. Might even change this thread's title to something more optimistic ,  but still, one thing at a time ...

[D_ManXX2]

Vinfamy i hope fallout 4 mods wont be put on hold due this ??

[vinfamy]

Vinfamy i hope fallout 4 mods wont be put on hold due this ??

 

Nope. Don't worry. FO4 is my priority. 

 

The current animation loader for Four-Play is being done mostly by jaam as he has quite a clear vision about it and has done much back-end work to serve that vision so he's most suited for it really. Unfortunately, due to his RL commitments, he can't quite dedicate as much time to modding as myself, so I'm pretty much just waiting for his work to complete Four-Play 1.0 as on my part I already completed the cum system and obtained all the necessary permission from animators and Vioxsis to package their assets with Four-Play. 

 

So I thought instead of just waiting around, I can do something productive by (finally) reading SexLab's code in detail to see if there's any more we can learn from for Four-Play. Then I realized if I'm gonna go over all of SexLab's code anyway, might as well have a shot at porting it to Skyrim SE without the SKSE dependency. 

 

So in a way, me having a shot at this for SSE is good for FO4 as I might pick up a few things from Ashal's work that can be applied to Four-Play, either for its 1.0 version or a later update.

[khumak]

Not really sure if these are features that would be defined by sexlab or whether it would be mods/animation packs, but I'd like to see options to customize:

 

- which types of animations you do and don't want to see

- ability to enforce sexual preferences so if an animation that would violate that is selected, it either picks a new one that does conform or reverts to some dialog or combat or some other substitution (go to jail, demand gold, steal all your stuff, etc)

- restrict animations based on devices/furnature used (so for example with strapons disabled, a female would never take the male role in an animation that would normally require a strapon)

- ability to enforce male/female actor positions for animations so for example if enforced, you will never have a female in a male role and a male in a female role in a F/M animation

- ability to customize default sexual preference so for example you can make it random or make everyone straight, or everyone bi, or whatever you want

- ability to substitute a companion in place of the PC for both voluntary and involuntary scenes

[Melliejoy]

Squee!! You have my undying support, Vinfamy! (Although I have no modding skills, so I don't think my support is worth much... I can test things if you need, I suppose)

 

But seriously, you are amazing for taking this on! Yay! 

[vinfamy]

Update: Wrote a few utility functions to mimic Ashal's PapyrusUtil work with arrays and a function that converts decimal to hex. My math teacher would be proud of me. Quite important as SexLab relies on EditorIDs for races etc, which are hex, but Papyrus (without the help of SKSE and PapyrusUtil) only gives us GetFormID which returns decimal.

[Damicles]

Good luck on the project at least someone is willing to try and get it off the ground instead of relying on the  SKSE people. Now if only some one could make a MCM mod or something that mimics it that would be great.

[vinfamy]

Good luck on the project at least someone is willing to try and get it off the ground instead of relying on the  SKSE people. Now if only some one could make a MCM mod or something that mimics it that would be great.

 

If SexLab SE goes ahead, I'll probably implement a MCM using message boxes like I did for Four-Play. These are alright, but limited. 

[Dova-Quim]

Its clearly being held back...