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Sexlab and Defeat load order question


carlfatal

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I have a problem with one mod, Defeat.

 

I made a fresh install some time ago, including sexlab and SL Aroused redux near the top of my load order. I play with a lot of other mods as well, and everything is fine so far.

But if I inlude Defeat, I get an issue, I don´t understand. Everytime I load a game, there occurs a "viking" in full armor falling from above. Then my game loads normal.

This falling "viking" occurs only with Defeat. Strange is, that this did not happen earlier, when I played a game, where I think, I sorted Defeat above sexlab. In my current load order Defeat is way below sexlab.

LOOT indeed likes my load order but doesn´t find any issues between sexlab and defeat. So it prefers no priority here. And the game runs, also the mods work. Only this fallen "viking" irritates me completely.

 

Now my questions:

Should defeat load before SL framework and SL Aroused redux, or after?

 

And second question: Am I right, if Death Alternative is above Defeat in the load order?

 

Thanks in advance.

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SexLab and SexLab Aroused are both .esm files

Esm load always before esp files, which means that your problem doesnt come from a wrong load order.

(Sexlab should load before Aroused)

 

Also I dont think that your problem comes from Defeat, because I never a situation where it spawn a npc.

I think your problem comes from a mod conflict.

 

Could you pls show us your modlist?

You should use LOOT to organize your mod order.

 

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I don't think this has anything to do with load order. At least it's not related with Defeat <-> sexlab. I wouldn't say load order is unimportant in general, but it's influence is exaggerated sometimes, other things are important too.

Does fresh install mean, you've started a new game? Because scripts are baked into your save, regardless if you uninstall a mod.

My best guess regarding this viking would be that you had Defeat installed previously in your game and used an old save, and there is still an unfinished script running that spawns this viking once you install it again. 

So, things you could try:

- start a new game and see if it happens there. If it does... not sure. Spawning NPCs out of nowhere is not a feature of Defeat, so even a faulty installation or bad load order shouldn't be able to do that. It might be a conflict with another mod which spawns NPCs, but i don't really have a guess which one, and i woudn't consider it likely, but... it's a strange bug. We have to guess here. ;)

- you could open console and click at that viking, there you can see which mod creates or modifies this viking (only the last one, in case several mods are messing with him). That might give you at least an idea.

 

Regarding load order, in general it's a good idea to put the basic mods/requirements like sexlab first, then mods needing these requirements, then patches for those mods. Not 100% sure, i think it's the same in MO and NMM: sexlab high, aroused lower, then Defeat for your example. That's also true for install order with few exceptions, xpmse should never be overwritten so it's better to install it last.

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Thank you both!

 

I am working with MO, Loot and WryeBash (mostly for conflicts).

And I am using a completely new game, and I also test an older superduper-cleaned save with it. Also I use massive save backups here, so I use always a fresh save for a new mod combination to prevent any changes in saves.

 

And yes, all esm are at the top, i.e.

 

 

sexlab

SL Aroused

campfire

 

and later down

 

DA

DA Addon

Defeat

 

Strange thing is, that this loading screen event only happens, if I put in DA and Defeat. If I put them out and load an save made without these mods, everything loads fine.

 

Only mod for npcs I am using, is Immersive citizens, and for companions I have immersice AFT. Both mods are long term mods. May immersive citizens collide with defeat? I will have a look for this.

 

 

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Thank you both!

 

I am working with MO, Loot and WryeBash (mostly for conflicts).

And I am using a completely new game, and I also test an older superduper-cleaned save with it. Also I use massive save backups here, so I use always a fresh save for a new mod combination to prevent any changes in saves.

 

And yes, all esm are at the top, i.e.

 

 

sexlab

SL Aroused

campfire

 

and later down

 

DA

DA Addon

Defeat

 

Strange thing is, that this loading screen event only happens, if I put in DA and Defeat. If I put them out and load an save made without these mods, everything loads fine.

 

Only mod for npcs I am using, is Immersive citizens, and for companions I have immersice AFT. Both mods are long term mods. May immersive citizens collide with defeat? I will have a look for this.

I don't know immersive citizens, but i think it's common enough. If Defeat doesn't mention a conflict, it's probably fine. I'd rather point towards DA or this addon you have. Did you try it without the addon or even DA, but with Defeat? And did you click at that viking to figure out which mod affets him?

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I don't know immersive citizens, but i think it's common enough. If Defeat doesn't mention a conflict, it's probably fine. I'd rather point towards DA or this addon you have. Did you try it without the addon or even DA, but with Defeat? And did you click at that viking to figure out which mod affets him?

 

I changed the load order, i.e. put DA and Defeat way more down, - nothing changed. I then forgot to click on the "viking", will do this tomorrow.

I started a new game, the error is there but I played since my last post until now without any problem, no crash, nothing, and all mod features work so far.

 

And yes, indeed, maybe DA could be the problem. I´ve played both but never together. Now I thought, I should. Most other mods are ones I use always, and the main change in my mods was actualizing them.

I will check it by using your advice tomorrow, hopefully I get a clue then.

 

 

Thanks again!

 

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To get DA work with Defeat without problems is a bit tricky. In essence i've turned pretty much everything off in DA that is not Defeat, i'm not entirely sure if it wouldn't be better to use Defeat only... was a lot of trial & error to get it working right and i'm just glad it works now. But i've never seen any flying vikings. ;)

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Hehe, DA and Defeat work well together, there is an explanation here in the forums, that I´ve used for it. The conflict cannot be between them, as they are made to be used together.

But maybe one of my SL mods do interfere here. It´s a tricky thing though, and I hope, that clicking on the "viking" will give me the right information. Sadly this feature is appearing for less than a second, I need to be damn fast. But if I know, what mod causes it, I should be able to solve this annoying loading screen, and the problem behind as well.

 

Everything came up, cause I wanted to play with Beyond Skyrim. For this I needed to reactivate an old char, and cause I used very different settings then, I decided to make everything new and shiny. The old (cleaned) savegame now works as well as the ones I made with new starts but I want it as near to perfection as possible. It´s a save after I finished the main quest and one addon.

 

Like I said, I don´t have to face CTDs or such but slowly I start to understand, how mods in Skyrim work. So I am very interested to learn more, and make it better. I´ve played the game stable with roundabout 210 mods once. Now I have less mods but more small conflicts, that need some fine tuning.

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Sounds to me you are using the mod "continue game no crash". It pre-loads a new game before loading your real save. Occasionally I will see a falling pc on the new load. Its a solid pick but can have some weird interactions with mods that initialize in unusual ways. I know for a fact defeat isn't one of those mods though.

 

If you are not using that mod then I have no idea. Switching the LO isn't going to fix it. As nazzz said people put too much importance on it.

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Hehe, DA and Defeat work well together, there is an explanation here in the forums, that I´ve used for it. The conflict cannot be between them, as they are made to be used together.

But maybe one of my SL mods do interfere here. It´s a tricky thing though, and I hope, that clicking on the "viking" will give me the right information. Sadly this feature is appearing for less than a second, I need to be damn fast. But if I know, what mod causes it, I should be able to solve this annoying loading screen, and the problem behind as well.

 

Everything came up, cause I wanted to play with Beyond Skyrim. For this I needed to reactivate an old char, and cause I used very different settings then, I decided to make everything new and shiny. The old (cleaned) savegame now works as well as the ones I made with new starts but I want it as near to perfection as possible. It´s a save after I finished the main quest and one addon.

 

Like I said, I don´t have to face CTDs or such but slowly I start to understand, how mods in Skyrim work. So I am very interested to learn more, and make it better. I´ve played the game stable with roundabout 210 mods once. Now I have less mods but more small conflicts, that need some fine tuning.

They are made to work together, but never worked flawless, + both have their own bugs. That's why - at least in theory - Defeat has it's own option for essential player and doesn't need DA anymore.

 

If you really want to be sure you have to accept that there is no such thing as a clean save (for sure). The wait-save-reload procedure is no guarantee at all, save game cleaners may or may not do a good job depending on the mod(s), sometimes they delete too much, sometimes not enough. They often work and it's usually worth to give it a try if you really want to continue with a save, but you can never be sure* if any problems happen because there is still a script running from an uninstalled mod.

 

*To be sure you'd need to check every single script in your save and know to wich mod it belongs. That's possible in theory, but... i wouldn't do that for the 6k-7k scripts in my game^^

 

As long as you don't go over the .esp limit, it really doesn't matter how much mods you have - it's all about how much scripts they are running, how often, and which scripts (some are more stressful than others).  Plus some stuff you'll probably never see as a user, how vulnerable those scripts are to break, if the coder catches the errors properly,... And of course if they cause any conflicts.

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@Nazzzgul666, @scarebear2403,

 

thank both of you! So then I have two mods interfering with animations or SL.

 

First thing: I definately use "continue game no crash", and so far I never got any problems with it. Maybe I can put it higher in the load order but I am not sure if this would help anything. Second thing: I was able to click on that flying viking, and well it said, the mod, that causes him to fly is "Immersive First Person". This mod is not in my load order, it is a simple SKSE plugin, and I can´t do anything but continue playing.

 

Regarding "clean" saves: I am using save tool, and I cleaned an old savegame three times, cleaned all forms and scripts exept the ones important for the level and quest stages and my horse. This save was then put into the new game. It is the most safe method to do it, and as stable as my game is now, I think, I can continue with this rather clean save.

Nonetheless I proofed everything by starting a new game also. With this new game I worked through my mods, changed load orders, actualized mods, kicked some, and put some new ones in. And aside form the starting screen problem everything now works perfectly (whatever perfect means if it comes to bethesda games). But I think playing for over seven hours without any crash or problem is fine.

 

DA and Defeat, well, I always wanted to play with both mods together. I definately miss some features of Defeat now, especially it´s annoying, that a defeat situation now always ends with getting blacked out, but it seems to be the only method to let DA take control over what should happen. I would love to see Defeat with capture solutions for the PC and companions, especially ones, that are as nice as the ones form DA (Falmer slave for example). And if I count in, that being held for ransom as a Dragonborn now costs me around 4000 gold - well, I like it, and with only Defeat this never would happen. (Seems I am slightly masochistic...)

 

So thank you again for you help. I hope, I am on the bright side now.

 

To all, who read this: I am able to play such things out, cause I always make backups of my saves, especially before I plan to change anything related to mods. You can always copy a save file into the changed game but you cannot be sure, that your safe files remain the same after changing anything. Usually i empty my save folder after every session into a backup folder, then I copy back the last save file to continue playing.

 

Yes, a save game can become corrupted while playing but not a backup on another drive. This is my personal solution for all games.

 

 

 

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So, the problem is identified, it is SL framework colliding with immersive first person view. I think, I can´t do anything exept playing with SL or IFPV, - or I can stay with it, as it is. At least it works without bloating saves or crashes.

 

DA and Defeat: well I found one thing: The combination seems to work better if DA loads after Defeat. I changed it, and some strange animation problems were gone. I have no clue, why this is so.

I am still not sure, what to do now. I love both mods for their features but I dislike, that one needs to be blacked out to reach the DA quests. For example I started  a new game in Rifton, run into the Ratway, surrendered to the two boys there, and after they had some fun, my char blacked out and awakened in the BaB again. If I set the possibility lower to start DA via Defeat, it is nonetheless possible to get blacked out without reason.

Two geniuses, two mods... too sad...

 

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For example I started  a new game in Rifton, run into the Ratway, surrendered to the two boys there, and after they had some fun, my char blacked out and awakened in the BaB again. If I set the possibility lower to start DA via Defeat, it is nonetheless possible to get blacked out without reason.

Two geniuses, two mods... too sad...

 

And isn't that exactly what should happen? By lowering it, there should just be a lower chance to be sent to DA. So if DA scenario is not triggered by Defeat, you should just end up sitting on the floor, recovering from rape. :)

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And isn't that exactly what should happen? By lowering it, there should just be a lower chance to be sent to DA. So if DA scenario is not triggered by Defeat, you should just end up sitting on the floor, recovering from rape. :)

 

 

I am nitpicking: It is not. I would love to have the Defeat outcome after surrendering, and not any blacked out DA variant. The difference may be small but if I see it right, then surrendering always triggers a blackout, even if you surrender to, let´s say, a follower or an neutral (no crime faction) NPC. ;)

 

It is too sad, that I am not able to work on these things, I simply don´t have the knowledge. At the moment I am happy, that I am able to use mods, and resolve some of the problems, you can have by combining mods, cause I know, how to use some of the tools. That is much more than two years ago, when I started to use lots of mods together.

 

Whatever, both mods are fine, it´s only me, who should learn more about these things.  :shy:

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I've managed to get Defeat and Death Alternative working together.

 

I've set them up so that they don't interact with each other - Defeat is set to trigger at 30% health, DA has bleedout events etc disabled.

 

You do need to open and close the MCM menu a few times to config DA, and it should probably be one of the last mods you setup as it wants to poll all the other mods to see if they have DA events - so they all need to have been activated etc before you setup DA.

 

I'm fairly sure this works, but not 100% as I havn't tested it rigorously and DA doesn't often trigger - fights get stopped by Defeat first.

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I've managed to get Defeat and Death Alternative working together.

 

I've set them up so that they don't interact with each other - Defeat is set to trigger at 30% health, DA has bleedout events etc disabled.

 

You do need to open and close the MCM menu a few times to config DA, and it should probably be one of the last mods you setup as it wants to poll all the other mods to see if they have DA events - so they all need to have been activated etc before you setup DA.

 

I'm fairly sure this works, but not 100% as I havn't tested it rigorously and DA doesn't often trigger - fights get stopped by Defeat first.

 

This sounds promising, I will try it out. Thank You! :)

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I am nitpicking: It is not. I would love to have the Defeat outcome after surrendering, and not any blacked out DA variant. The difference may be small but if I see it right, then surrendering always triggers a blackout, even if you surrender to, let´s say, a follower or an neutral (no crime faction) NPC. ;)

 

It is too sad, that I am not able to work on these things, I simply don´t have the knowledge. At the moment I am happy, that I am able to use mods, and resolve some of the problems, you can have by combining mods, cause I know, how to use some of the tools. That is much more than two years ago, when I started to use lots of mods together.

 

Whatever, both mods are fine, it´s only me, who should learn more about these things.  :shy:

 

Oooh, so sorry, no idea why I thought you are talking about scenarios after being defeated. :angel:

Surrender should start a dialog, not a blackout, this is definitely weird.

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Oooh, so sorry, no idea why I thought you are talking about scenarios after being defeated. :angel:

Surrender should start a dialog, not a blackout, this is definitely weird.

 

 

No offense! :)

Yes, I was talking about scenariros after being defeated. And it is fine, that Defeat triggers DA via the blackout after a fight/rape situation. Then beeing captured or held for ransom is, what I want to see.

 

And yes, surrendering opens a dialog option, but after beeing used by the winner, my char also blacks out and gets teleported into one of the DA options. THAT is, what I dislike. Here I would like to see Defeat working on it´s own, kicking all DA options and use the simple robbed version of Defeat instead with some time to run away before the agressor becomes aggressive again.

 

Like I said before: I love both mods, I love, how they play together, but I definately would like to have more difference between surrendering and fighting until the last. But using a DA outcome triggers always the blackout. If I use the option in Defeat and set DA to maybe 50 percent, then it changes only the value if DA triggers but it does not give an option to trigger DA only after a fight.

 

My conclusion is, that I can be happy, that these mods exist and are maintained. And who knows, maybe one day there is a solution to my personal like. But this is my "nitpicker´s ego", nothing serious. ;)

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