RevealingChoices-1.0 UPDATE 17/7-2017

[KicklerOfButts]

View File

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Introduction:
Hello there, I'm a novice modder who's been lurking for ages.
Some of you may have seen me around, answered a question of mine in the Tech-support forum or thrown a glance at my other (completely unfinished, is on hiatus in favor of this one) mod Fupperks: http://www.loverslab...t-update-87-16/

...Probably not tho. (I just changed my user name too)
Anyhow, that's it for introductions I guess?

What is this mod?
This is a framework!

A framework that aims to do 2 things.
1: Provide tagging and checking of armor skimpiness so that such information can be used by other mods.
Currently such functionality exists in some mods, but they're localized for their particular mod and doesn't provide any help for others and may even clash with other modders' attempts at similar functionality.
The aim here is to provide a framework that all mods can use for their checks.
This would provide plenty of benefits, but the main ones are that everyone would be using the same checks instead of potentially having multiple systems doing the same thing, and the fact that modders would no longer have to bother with building their own system. Just hook into mine!

2: The ability to equip variants of armors.(Not yet developed and it's way down the pipeline. Probably don't except this half soon.)
Ideally the framework will offer the ability to equip more or less skimpy variants of armors, if such are available.
This is still an intended functionality, but it's currently far off from being achieved and I'm focusing development on Functionality 1 first and foremost so that modders will get something to use.

Functionality:
A tagging system which allows the user to dynamically set custom(not CK) tags for armors.
The 4 available tags are: Topless, Bottomless, Top Skimpy, Bottom Skimpy.
​
More information about the tags:
Spoiler


In the future:
The ability to equip variants of armors either through Papyrus or dialogue boxes. (NOT YET DEVELOPED.)

Current Release State:
The tagging system is almost done and will be added in the next update, but the current download does nothing! Do not download it!

DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS MOD EXPECTING TO USE ITS FUNCTIONALITY YET.

 

 

 

Final Words:
A full release is obviously being worked on, but I hope this preview release will pique some interests for now.

 

And finally, INFINITE thanks to fellow Loverslab user Versh, without whom this project would have died tragically as just a glimpse in my eye.
I'm something of an idiot, so his patient feedback to even the dumbest of novice questions is what has allowed me to not chuck my computer out the window ages ago.

Also thanks to CPU for answering some of my questions in the Technical Support area. Lessons have been learned.

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• Submitter
  JustSomeAnon
• Submitted
  07/15/2017
• Category
  Other
• Requires
  Skyrim
• Special Edition Compatible

 

[Guest]

Wow I really like the idea of this hmm its just going to be hard to get people to work on making armors for it. I mean its hard enough conforming every single armor type to your bodytype let alone like 6 pieces per set.

 

But I completely support this project and wish I could help but I know little about messing with meshes.

 

EDIT: the first thing I think of is book of uunp mod and those sets would go perfect for this

[KicklerOfButts]

Wow I really like the idea of this hmm its just going to be hard to get people to work on making armors for it. I mean its hard enough conforming every single armor type to your bodytype let alone like 6 pieces per set.

 

But I completely support this project and wish I could help but I know little about messing with meshes.

 

EDIT: the first thing I think of is book of uunp mod and those sets would go perfect for this

 

You actually don't need to make all sets.

The framework is fine with if an armor only having one option as well.

The bare minimum options necessary to make a compatible armor are:

 

2 Full Armor (identical to original .nif) .nifs named -0NameOfOriginalNif_0 and _1 and 2 Topless Armor .nifs named -1NameOfOriginalNif_0 and _1

 

OR

 

2 Full Armor (identical to original .nif) .nifs named -0NameOfOriginalNif_0 and _1 and Bottomlessless Armor .nifs named -3NameOfOriginalNif_0 and _1.

 

OR

 

2 Full Armor (identical to original .nif) .nifs named -0NameOfOriginalNif_0 and _1 and "Top-and-Bottomless" Armor .nifs named -7NameOfOriginalNif_0 and _1.

 

 

So basically, a minimaly compatible armor only needs 2 sets ("sets" because Weight Slider) of changed nifs and 1 set unchanged-but-renamed copy of the original full armor .nif.

[Feliks]

Super glad to see someone's doing something like this, could make good use of this in a few projects.

[Guest]

 

You actually don't need to make all sets.

The framework is fine with if an armor only having one option as well.

The bare minimum options necessary to make a compatible armor are:

 

-SNIP-

 

So basically, a minimaly compatible armor only needs 2 sets ("sets" because Weight Slider) of changed nifs and 1 set unchanged-but-renamed copy of the original full armor .nif.

 

Oh I see now it seems more configurable than I first thought ^^

 

It would be nice if somneone does make armors for you to host them or at least make a list so we can find them easily etc etc.

Also I feel this mod could have a light compatibility to serial strip as undressing etc, maybe i am just thinking out loud sorry.

 

Also maybe animations for other npc's removing your clothes, I remember a mod that had an animation like that I can't remember what it was called

some guy would go around stripping you lol

[Yuni]

... Oh this looks fun~ I do like the possibility of someone stripping the player as well, but hey. xD Overall it just looks good!

[Guest]

... Oh this looks fun~ I do like the possibility of someone stripping the player as well, but hey. xD Overall it just looks good!

 

Agreed, I really wish they had an animation of an NPC ripping of a players clothes, instead of just automatically removing them.

[SexDwarf2250]

Two questions:

 

First - how is this different from "Hmm what to wear"? Is that something that could work side by side with this?

 

Second - I would love a version where combat can take off bits of armor from player and NPC at a time, might that be possible? It could have synergy with a mod that adds arousal when struck in combat, I think which Feliks is doing.

 

 

[Slorm]

Second - I would love a version where combat can take off bits of armor from player and NPC at a time, might that be possible? It could have synergy with a mod that adds arousal when struck in combat, I think which Feliks is doing.

 

Now that would be a great option to have

 

[KicklerOfButts]

Two questions:

 

First - how is this different from "Hmm what to wear"? Is that something that could work side by side with this?

 

Second - I would love a version where combat can take off bits of armor from player and NPC at a time, might that be possible? It could have synergy with a mod that adds arousal when struck in combat, I think which Feliks is doing.

 

First - I've actually never seen or heard of that mod before. I'll have to look into it.

 

 

Second - Revealing Choices is intended as a framework that offers the basic functionality of controlling how much of an armor (and hopefully in the future, clothing) can be equipped. As well as provide feedback to other mods about how much armor is equipped. Nothing else.

(The ability to control the player's armor comes included however.)

 

 

Using the functionality on other actors and using the feedback of how "outfitted" an actor has become will be left up to other mods.

For instance, any mod that uses skimpiness levels to determine things, or has player shame as a factor, will be able to hook into Revealing Choices and check whether or not the PC is wearing something skimpy, revealing or outright has their tits out. And now those things change dynamically!

(The function to do so already exists in the framework, it's just up to other mods to call on it.)

 

For another example, a mod that wants to add sexual flare to quests could use Revealing Choices to tell the player how much to wear whenever they need to. Maybe some guy steals your top and leaves you to walk around topless for a bit? Or maybe a pimp wants you to take a walk around Whiterun with your pussy on display as advertisement?

 

The difference between having Revealing Choices and not having it is that RC allows you (in theory) to make any armor visually more or less revealing. Without it, an armor is either revealing or it isn't. You can't change that other than manually equipping a different armor or changing the tags to contradict the armor's visuals.

(Technically that's almost what RC does too, but it hides that stuff beneath a paintjob so you can't tell.)

 

With RC (Provided compatible armors are made), you'll (and other mods!) be able to equip an armor to be however revealing you want it to be at the press of a button, and other mods will be able to detect the difference and use that to change their own functionality.

 

 

...I feel like a salesman all of a sudden.

I'mma go hang myself for a bit.

[VAAlucard]

Really looking forward to this, there was a "break undies" mod released that was reminiscent of Oblivion's armor degredation, however if you wanted to make an armor or adjust an armor for it you'd be spending a lot of time and the results may vary. I adjusted one of the armors that came with it to add belly scaling but that took almost 2 days to do and it didn't turn out that great.

[KicklerOfButts]

 

First - how is this different from "Hmm what to wear"? Is that something that could work side by side with this?

Update in regards to this:

 

After looking into that mod, it looks like it's "just" a couple of unique armors that have been broken down into pieces.

 

What the Author's done is he's made 24 new armors that have no model but has the stats of a vanilla armor and only occupies the "body" armor slot.

Then he's made another armor item for each individual piece of each armor with no stats, and set their armor slots to only match which piece is in the model.

(An armor that only contains the left shoulder pauldron only occupies "that" armor slot.)

 

This allows the player to equip multiple of these pieces at once since their armor slots don't overlap unless they contain the same kind of piece.

 

The player crafts one of the "core" 24 armors that has no model but has the stats of a given armor, and equips it to get the stats.

Then they craft each individual armor piece as a separate armor item, and equip whichever pieces they want to wear to get the "model" to show up.

 

Not a bad system, but it has some glaring flaws:

• It's going to clutter the living fuck out of your inventory with dozens of armor items.
• It's not very immersive because you have to manually equip an invisible armor before adding parts to it.
• You will never change your armor unless you just want new stats since all the armors are technically visually identical. All vanilla armors and treasure armors will be completely obsolete in the game, because there's no reason for you to ever wear them. You have a single armor that can look however you want and has whatever stats you wanted from it.

But more importantly, what differs it from Revealing Choices:

• That mod is actually just a bunch of new armors that you can equip.
• Revealing choices is a framework which makes the functionalities of equipping actors to different extents and evaluating how revealing their outfits are available to other mods. Compatible armors aren't technically a part of Revealing Choices, rather they're just tools to allow those functionalities to be offered.
• Armors for Revealing Choices are still limited by their stats. If you have an iron armor but want a stronger armor, you're going to have to trade up for a better armor. In "Hmm What To Wear," you can just make an invisible armor with the stats of steel armor and equip it to look like iron armor. You would never have a reason to change your armor.

 

I believe those are the main points. I might be looking into this mod a bit more in the future just to see if there's anything that could change how RC works.

 

*EDIT*

Added this post to the OP, along with drastically improving the OP in basically every way imaginable.

[SexDwarf2250]

 

I believe those are the main points.

 

Yeah, that seems about right, and it explains the difference better, thank you. I would add one thing about HWtW, which is that there is also a script to replace and randomize NPC armors, which is actually the main reason I've used it off and on. It creates visual variety, plus ends up being skimpy most of the time.

 

On the other hand, RC is going to be a proper framework for managing armors like this. Could it use or even manage the assets from HWtW? Having a lot of the armor already split into pieces seems like it would save a ton of work, and could make that less cumbersome. I suppose that's not the bit you're interested in, as it's a framework, I just hope this takes off with other modders, I can already see how it would be useful. 

 

I also see there will be a 20 actor limit, does that mean randomly skimpifying bandits is out of question as an option? Could there be some reserved slots out of the 20 to do that, eg tell the framework "I want 5 of those slots to skimpify hostiles randomly until they die or despawn"?

 

I suppose a mod that wanted to combat strip parts of armor from hits would have to work within a 20-hostile limit, too? I feel like this still has some potential with a defeat-like "mark" button... press G, and now when you hit that NPC, depending on damage and armor, parts may fly off.

[KicklerOfButts]

 

Yeah, that seems about right, and it explains the difference better, thank you. I would add one thing about HWtW, which is that there is also a script to replace and randomize NPC armors, which is actually the main reason I've used it off and on. It creates visual variety, plus ends up being skimpy most of the time.

 

 

My download didn't come with any scripts as far as I can tell, but then again I only downloaded the core to check out how it does things.

 

 

 

 

On the other hand, RC is going to be a proper framework for managing armors like this. Could it use or even manage the assets from HWtW? Having a lot of the armor already split into pieces seems like it would save a ton of work, and could make that less cumbersome. I suppose that's not the bit you're interested in, as it's a framework, I just hope this takes off with other modders, I can already see how it would be useful.  

 

It's actually very interesting.

The thing about frameworks is that they are what establishes what other modders will have to work with and what they have to produce.

If it's possible to give contributors the ability to only have to develop a single piece of an armor if they don't want to put together an entire outfit, that would be great.

 

I'm looking into if Revealing Choices can use a similar system based off it right now, actually.

If things pan out as they're looking right now, (no promises on that, I'm still looking into things) there may not be any need for a maximum armor count limitation.

 

 

 

I also see there will be a 20 actor limit, does that mean randomly skimpifying bandits is out of question as an option? Could there be some reserved slots out of the 20 to do that, eg tell the framework "I want 5 of those slots to skimpify hostiles randomly until they die or despawn"?

 

I suppose a mod that wanted to combat strip parts of armor from hits would have to work within a 20-hostile limit, too? I feel like this still has some potential with a defeat-like "mark" button... press G, and now when you hit that NPC, depending on damage and armor, parts may fly off.

 

 

The "current" armor count limitation is actually quite arbitrary.

It only means that up to 20 actors in a single place can wear variants of the same armor. 20 more actors can wear unique variants of any other armor at the same time as the first 20 can.

 

The 21st actor to be modified will simply be sharing their armor's model with the first actor who was equipped, and the 22nd will share it with the second etc.

 

The limitation should be easy to circumvent by just having the armors you want to change "update" their RC setting when they first get in sight range of the PC. (Probably not through LOS checks tho, there's probably way more efficient ways of doing it.)

 

 

This is a bit wonky however, and as I mentioned above I am considering changes.

This kind of thought-provoking feedback is what a preview release is all about!

[KicklerOfButts]

Quick Question: Does anyone happen to know off the top of their head if any major or popular mods use slots 45, 49, 54 and 56?

I know Devious Devices but I think I can make that one work anyways.

 

I'm asking for development reasons.

[Bragh]

I just had a thought: This could theoretically be used for sexlab purposes to change the model of, say, a dress for sex scenes.  Female wants to ride someone?  Swap to the top-down, skirt-lifted model; or maybe one or the other.  Of course, this would also require said dress to have models for those situations.  It's enough for my interest though!

[nutsnuts]

Even if it is done for Remodeled armor and Devious devices mods it would spectacular immersion indeed. All the best Man.

[KicklerOfButts]

Quick question for anyone knowledgeable:

Is slot 54 used by any major mods as far as you know?

 

It's fine if there are armor-replacers who use it since they wouldn't be compatible anyways.

I'm working on a significant potential change in the system and I need to know if there are enough armor slots I can use to make it work.

 

 

I just had a thought: This could theoretically be used for sexlab purposes to change the model of, say, a dress for sex scenes.  Female wants to ride someone?  Swap to the top-down, skirt-lifted model; or maybe one or the other.  Of course, this would also require said dress to have models for those situations.  It's enough for my interest though!

 

That's a neat idea. I'll have to think about if something like that could be done.

[Storms of Superior]

This would be awesome for me, since I like my characters and followers to go commando. It would beat the crap out of opening the .nif files and blocking panties; I had a disaster with Aradia Kato Armor when I did that. I seems that I didn't know to account for the same textures being applied to all versions of the armor, therefore ruining the look of my favorite one.

 

Also, I see the possibility of mods like Defeat and the like to use this framework for attackers to remove only the pieces of armor that they should need to remove in order to do the deed. Also, for certain armor pieces can then be considered "destroyed" in the manner that may happen in an actual attack.

 

Dude, you are bringing immersion to a tier higher than it has been. I'm giving you a vote for this mod. 

[Nazzzgul666]

This sounds indeed very intresting. Besides from HWtW which i never tried, one other mod was already mentioned: Break Undies plus bt the newest version has some problems, some armor parts are just invisible, don't know why. But maybe this framework could make it easier.

 

Another use i could imagine: some time ago somebody posted some pictures of, for example, a panty pushed aside to reveal the vagina and allow sex while technically beeing in clothes. If i remember right he asked pretty much for a framework like this, but i can't find it again right now.

[KicklerOfButts]

This sounds indeed very intresting. Besides from HWtW which i never tried, one other mod was already mentioned: Break Undies plus bt the newest version has some problems, some armor parts are just invisible, don't know why. But maybe this framework could make it easier.

 

Another use i could imagine: some time ago somebody posted some pictures of, for example, a panty pushed aside to reveal the vagina and allow sex while technically beeing in clothes. If i remember right he asked pretty much for a framework like this, but i can't find it again right now.

 

I can't promise anything because I'm still looking things up for a re-work of the system, but it's looking ATM like this is definitely something that could be done.

[KicklerOfButts]

OP updated with important information that I very seriously need feedback on.

Please, if you have the time and are interested, consider responding with anything you think about it.

[Guest]

I like the concept for sure!

[gtcard]

there's a mod called sexlab utility which can be used to handle armor swapping, which is what the core of this framework seems to be: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/18950-sexlabutil1-2015-03-28

 

the basic idea is sexlab util can be scripted to do stuff like equip or unequip armor based on conditions, which are all related to sexlab. i am already doing things like automatically equipping lingerie randomly during scenes and switching my outer wear afterwards. i have a pretty extensive wardrobe that's being managed solely by sl util right now, with some very crude and roundabout scripting:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the pieces are all interchangeable: top, hdt skirts, gloves, stockings, panties, garters, lingerie. i have 7+ pieces per slot, with 10 panties as well. SL util does the swapping randomly, at the start of a scene for pulled panty and lingerie meshes, and will randomly switch to another outfit set after the scene if a switch was made at the start of it. all the bodies are rigged with HDT vagina bones so the labia will open with all the clothing combinations. but you can see the extent of work needed to actually make this happen, and i think that is going to be the biggest challenge with your mod. i really wanted to build interchangeable clothing sets so i was willing to go through all the trouble of splitting meshes and rerigging them to add HDT physics to all the skirts and sculpt the clothes to my favorite UN7B preset. it is a tremendous amount of additional assembly required in order to make the armors compatible.

 

i would love to see this framework take off. i just want to point out a few factors which i hope you will consider:

 

1. Compatibility--the big one. i see most armor mods are released as modular pieces (ie top, bottom, boots, gloves). most clothing mods are not released this way. moreover, most clothing mods will not cut "cleanly", even if the mesh uses detached parts (ie it looks weird and abruptly "cut off" if you are to remove the top or lower mesh part). i anticipate you will get a ton of requests to make custom armor and clothing compatible. i also imagine this will be the bulk of your work, which is to try to figure out a system to standardize and streamline the process. in my case, the scripting in sexlab utility to get the armor swapping effect wasn't too bad, even given the limited tools available for it. the problem i ran into with a lot of meshes is in order for me to get it "compatible" with my current setup, i essentially had to chop the mesh into pieces myself. you can see in my pictures though, all those meshes are split into top and bottom, and they can be removed and equipped independently of each other. my experience with so many armor mods is that a specified body type does not guarantee compatibility. for example, 2 armors can say UNPB, but the bodies differ and i cannot copy one and paste into the body of the other without expecting some clipping. this is very evident to me because often times i have to fix the meshes of "UNPB or UN7B" armors (they share a base lower body) so that the calf doesn't clip through the stocking. it doesn't clip if people use the stock UUNP Special femalebody_1.nif mesh from bodyslide, but it will clip if they changed any of the slider settings before generating their bodymesh.

 

2. Custom enchants--this is a big issue with my current setup. SL Utility was written years ago, before the version of sexlab which allowed for custom enchantments (self enchanted at arcane altar) to be reapplied. any clothing equipped through my sexlab utility script will not reapply their enchantment effects. i hope this will be taken into consideration, because i'm still seeing it's hit-or-miss when it comes to newer mods using scripts to re-equip gear.

 

3. Slots--this is a constant issue as well. this is a good guideline to use when determining slots: https://github.com/DeviousDevices/Docs/wiki/Slot-Usage-Reference since a good deal of people use DD here, it's going to be important to be mindful of which slots DD uses by default. i personally don't, but i still slot my armor around their slots just to prevent future annoyances with compatibility.

 

4. Automation--a lot of the suggestions in this thread are for this. i think that will be the biggest selling point, is to be able to setup conditions and have the mod equip and unequip gear automatically. sexlab is immensely more enjoyable when there's an element of unpredictability to it. when you start a scene, sexlab will pick a random one from a pool of scenes which satisfy the tag requirements for the mod calling for the scene. you don't know which scene you are going to get. in my case, i also don't know if my character will continue the scene with her current clothes and just panty pulled, or is she going to switch into one of her lingerie for the scene; and if so, which one? and what will she wear afterwards? this is already possible; i think it needs is refinement.

 

as i said before, i really hope this frameowrk becomes adopted and used extensively. the reason i made my points is to bring to your attention that there is already a mod which can do a lot this, and that the biggest difficulty of bringing something like this mod into the open is not going to be the mod itself, but how you plan to simplify the adoption process. it is going to be a chicken and the egg conundrum--mod authors won't built around the framework unless the framework is popular, but framework won't become popular if mod authors don't build for it. best of luck nonetheless; i'm glad this is an area that is being further explored because i think what it really needs is precisely what you're trying to do, a framework foundation to build from.

[KicklerOfButts]

-SNIP-

 

First Point:

The problem with Sexlab Util is that it requires any modder who wants functionality to script their own.

The idea of making the framework is to allow modders access to such functionality right off the bat, without having to create their own systems for it.

 

Besides the massive time-saving in just calling a function from a ready framework over building a "framework" yourself, another big advantage is that everything that wants to use the functionality will draw from the same system instead of potentially clashing with systems from other mods trying to do the same with their own unique attempts at the same functionality.

 

A framework has the inherent drawback of limiting the maximum potential of course (since it has to remain functional for many different purposes), but it trades it for the advantage of drastically simplifying the base functionality and making it easily accessible.

 

The hope is that it will let modders use this base functionality for other purposes, rather than abandoning things that would require them due to the amount of work necessary to develop a system to handle it.

 

Second Point:

Compatibility is the big thing. I can't really do much about this other than try to make it as easy as possible to make compatible armors.

I know this is an issue, but I'm really just hoping other modders will take enough of a liking to this to give it a go.

If possible I hope to provide a basic replacer for all the vanilla armors by default, so people have something to use even if/while nobody has developed for the system yet.

 

Once there's a base replacer for the normal armors, it becomes less a case of "there are no compatible armors, you have to make some!" and more "there are armors, you only need to make more if you want to!"

 

Third Point:

As the system is looking right now in my plans (which could change). I believe custom enchantments and improvements will work just fine. The real issue is actually the pre-made armors, since they're entirely separate armor items that just reference to the un-enchanted ones.

In fact, I did not know sexlab had a function like that. I might not need it, but that's good to know.

 

Fourth Point

Slots. I already keep DD in mind, I've chosen armor slots specifically with it in mind actually.

The slots I've (currently) decided to use should make it entirely compatible with the chastity devices.

 

The real problem here is that I can't check every mod out there and nobody's replied with feedback on if they know any problems with the slots I've chosen and listed in the OP. If nobody speaks up I'll just keep going with these ones and hope shit doesn't crash and burn on me later.

 

Fifth Point:

That's the whole idea of a framework!

Make functionality accessible at the call of a function so people don't have to make their own.

I'll leave the actual selection up to the mods that use RC, but RC will provide the options and feedback telling them what's available.