Working noose - proof of concept

[SAC]

Crap. It fails to load because it is looking for the masters. You said you tried to overwrite with the esp I posted above, and it failed? Because I cleaned that up, not sure why it didn't work for you.

 

I cleaned up v3 again, please download it and make sure you overwrite your existing \data\noose.esp with this one. If this fails again, not sure what to do until I post the new version.

 

Yes, I do have some progress on the new version, I think I'll be able to release it during the weekend. It will introduce a sequence of events and animations taken randomly from a pool of 8 animations, plus some random factors in positioning and duration, plus whatever comes to mind until I finish it. It's an internal redesign as well, moving away from playidles to furnitures with animfurns, which helps with NPC and props positioning. 

 

Unfortunately, the big drawback is that the animations are all vanilla, basically unconvincing placeholders until I manage to convince someone to build a proper one, or I learn how to do one myself. Which, starting from scratch, is not going to be easy or quick, I would prefer to work on coding the mod instead.

 

LE: a teaser from the next version = hand restraints

Noose.esp

[dharvinia]

Hello

   I am new to this forum, so I am not familiar with proper way to ask question.

Your Noose plugin requires that another program that allows collision with dead bodies be used.

I installed that program, but it does not seem to work. as soon as the actor goes to ragdoll, it falls from the noose.

 Since collision plugin is not supported by the author, would it not be wise to add a script line that turns the "dead" actor to collision mode.

You have gone through a great deal of work to get this project to its present form, and it would function better as a standalone.

 

  Just saying.

[SAC]

Hello

   I am new to this forum, so I am not familiar with proper way to ask question.

Your Noose plugin requires that another program that allows collision with dead bodies be used.

I installed that program, but it does not seem to work. as soon as the actor goes to ragdoll, it falls from the noose.

 Since collision plugin is not supported by the author, would it not be wise to add a script line that turns the "dead" actor to collision mode.

You have gone through a great deal of work to get this project to its present form, and it would function better as a standalone.

 

  Just saying.

 

I see what you mean, and I can look into integrating it. However, just to make sure we are talking about the same thing, and double-check some basics:

 

- I am referring to http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/2570/?

- Not sure about its support (yes, I've seen the author's notice), but the mod does work for me

- There are random misalignments in the body + noose positioning which may cause the dead body to drop, you should try more hangings and let me know which noose is failing consistently, if any

- There can be mods which conflict with Dead Body Collision, it's happened to me before. Just try having it last on your load order, to double check for conflicts

- To double check whether Dead Body Collision actually works, just check if you can walk "through" a dead body (laying on the ground), or if you are actually pushing / kicking them around when you walk on top of them. If you can walk through them as if they don't exist, then DBC is not working. If, on the other hand, you are pushing / kicking them around, then DBC is working properly, and the problem is with my noose

[Guest]

Crap. It fails to load because it is looking for the masters. You said you tried to overwrite with the esp I posted above, and it failed? Because I cleaned that up, not sure why it didn't work for you.

 

I cleaned up v3 again, please download it and make sure you overwrite your existing \data\noose.esp with this one. If this fails again, not sure what to do until I post the new version.

 

Yes, I do have some progress on the new version, I think I'll be able to release it during the weekend. It will introduce a sequence of events and animations taken randomly from a pool of 8 animations, plus some random factors in positioning and duration, plus whatever comes to mind until I finish it. It's an internal redesign as well, moving away from playidles to furnitures with animfurns, which helps with NPC and props positioning. 

 

Unfortunately, the big drawback is that the animations are all vanilla, basically unconvincing placeholders until I manage to convince someone to build a proper one, or I learn how to do one myself. Which, starting from scratch, is not going to be easy or quick, I would prefer to work on coding the mod instead.

 

LE: a teaser from the next version = hand restraints

 

Had tested the newer file attachment and YES it WORKs. Great job. Well Done.

Note: i just use the latest v3 file to test it out all the while.

 

[SAC]

Had tested the newer file attachment and YES it WORKs. Great job. Well Done.

Note: i just use the latest v3 file to test it out all the while.

 

 

Excellent, glad to hear Enjoy, and let me know any feedback

[Clegane]

That's great, because I have all the parts and it is working (I tested on player) but I can't attach the rope to the gallows. It is below or above or just floating in the air. 

[SAC]

That's great, because I have all the parts and it is working (I tested on player) but I can't attach the rope to the gallows. It is below or above or just floating in the air.

Are you referring to the furniture rope, or the hanging gun?

 

Furniture rope: you can place the furniture rope anywhere. Granted, it will not snap to gallows / ceiling / branches whatever, but you can place it colliding with anything. And you can further move it using autohotkey Modpos.

 

I'll see if I can add a snap point to the furniture, I don't know how to do that yet, and I'm not sure if it can be done in nifskope or CK (without Max)

 

LE: it's done in Nifskope but looks tedious. I'll see what I can do, but they should work (i.e. be perfectly positionable wherever you want) without snap points.

 

If you are referring to the hanging gun: you direct the NPC to move wherever you want, then shoot it. It will not take into account the surrounding objects. I will see if / how I fine tune the NPC hanging position to fit nicely with the gallows height.

[Clegane]

Thanks! I 

[dharvinia]

 

Hello

   I am new to this forum, so I am not familiar with proper way to ask question.

Your Noose plugin requires that another program that allows collision with dead bodies be used.

I installed that program, but it does not seem to work. as soon as the actor goes to ragdoll, it falls from the noose.

 Since collision plugin is not supported by the author, would it not be wise to add a script line that turns the "dead" actor to collision mode.

You have gone through a great deal of work to get this project to its present form, and it would function better as a standalone.

 

  Just saying.

 

I see what you mean, and I can look into integrating it. However, just to make sure we are talking about the same thing, and double-check some basics:

 

- I am referring to http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/2570/?

- Not sure about its support (yes, I've seen the author's notice), but the mod does work for me

- There are random misalignments in the body + noose positioning which may cause the dead body to drop, you should try more hangings and let me know which noose is failing consistently, if any

- There can be mods which conflict with Dead Body Collision, it's happened to me before. Just try having it last on your load order, to double check for conflicts

- To double check whether Dead Body Collision actually works, just check if you can walk "through" a dead body (laying on the ground), or if you are actually pushing / kicking them around when you walk on top of them. If you can walk through them as if they don't exist, then DBC is not working. If, on the other hand, you are pushing / kicking them around, then DBC is working properly, and the problem is with my noose

 

 

I did some more tests at different points in the game.

I am using the gun exclusively so as not to complicate things.

The misalignment is consistent  with all the successful hangings

 

 

this is a script problem, in that whatever you are using a a centre point to calculate the placement of the noose is always out mostly in the  X Y axis'

In and of itself as shown in the spoiler does not cause the problem as you can have "successful" hangings if only the X and Y axis are out a bit.

However, the reason for most failures is the Z axis, because if the head is not in the noose the body will fall down.

[SAC]

this is a script problem, in that whatever you are using a a centre point to calculate the placement of the noose is always out mostly in the X Y axis'[/color]

In and of itself as shown in the spoiler does not cause the problem as you can have "successful" hangings if only the X and Y axis are out a bit.

However, the reason for most failures is the Z axis, because if the head is not in the noose the body will fall down.

.

 

First of all, it's good that DBC is actually working in your environment, so that's sorted.

 

Your observations are correct, and this is why I am working a lot to move (basically rewrite) the internals of the mod to furnitures, instead of idles. I actually mentioned it on the description page: if you use mods that alter the default height (scale) of NPCs - like "more varied body shapes and sizes", I think it's called - then the script may fail positioning the NPC. I tried to embed some logic in the script to account for non-standard heights, but I didn't really test it.

 

LE: I am referring to this mod http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/21064/? or something with similar effect

 

As a workaround, for the gun version, you can console "setscale 0.98" the female NPCs (1 for males) before shooting the gun (this will resize the NPC to standard), or try to "modpos z 5" or 10 after shooting the gun / "sitting" the furnitures (the second approach will probably fail for the gun, but should work for the furnitures).

 

Of course, I could have just embedded a "setscale to vanilla" in the script / furnitures, that would be the easy way out, but I want to preserve the sizes as each player prefers them - and that variety makes it more difficult.

 

Otherwise, if the scale is vanilla, then the positioning should be fine. I am aware of the x - y misalignment, that's more difficult to fix (actually, not difficult, but a lot of boring trial - reload - error - minuscule tweak - reload...).

 

Hopefully the next version will be more consistent from this perspective (both x - y, and adjust z for non-standard scales), I'll try to test it more thoroughly.

[dharvinia]

 

this is a script problem, in that whatever you are using a a centre point to calculate the placement of the noose is always out mostly in the X Y axis'[/color]

In and of itself as shown in the spoiler does not cause the problem as you can have "successful" hangings if only the X and Y axis are out a bit.

However, the reason for most failures is the Z axis, because if the head is not in the noose the body will fall down.

.

 

First of all, it's good that DBC is actually working in your environment, so that's sorted.

 

Your observations are correct, and this is why I am working a lot to move (basically rewrite) the internals of the mod to furnitures, instead of idles. I actually mentioned it on the description page: if you use mods that alter the default height (scale) of NPCs - like "more varied body shapes and sizes", I think it's called - then the script may fail positioning the NPC. I tried to embed some logic in the script to account for non-standard heights, but I didn't really test it.

 

LE: I am referring to this mod http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/21064/? or something with similar effect

 

As a workaround, for the gun version, you can console "setscale 0.98" the female NPCs (1 for males) before shooting the gun (this will resize the NPC to standard), or try to "modpos z 5" or 10 after shooting the gun / "sitting" the furnitures (the second approach will probably fail for the gun, but should work for the furnitures).

 

Of course, I could have just embedded a "setscale to vanilla" in the script / furnitures, that would be the easy way out, but I want to preserve the sizes as each player prefers them - and that variety makes it more difficult.

 

Otherwise, if the scale is vanilla, then the positioning should be fine. I am aware of the x - y misalignment, that's more difficult to fix (actually, not difficult, but a lot of boring trial - reload - error - minuscule tweak - reload...).

 

Hopefully the next version will be more consistent from this perspective (both x - y, and adjust z for non-standard scales), I'll try to test it more thoroughly.

 

 

Any attempt to try and alter the position of the npc after the gun is fired will result in the NPC falling out of the noose also when I alter the NPC position it automatically snaps back into its previous position as soon as I exit console mode.

  Also, as an aside, I am unable to get the program to work without the gun, in fact I cannot build any of the nooses or even see the gallows.

 

 

[SAC]

- Please see the posts between myself and torinarg on page 2 of the thread (last four posts on page 2)

- you don't have the furniture in "special" at all?

- please try building them through console, I gave torinarg the codes

- does setscale 0.98 solve the vertical gun alignment?

[dharvinia]

- Please see the posts between myself and torinarg on page 2 of the thread (last four posts on page 2)

- you don't have the furniture in "special" at all?

- please try building them through console, I gave torinarg the codes

- does setscale 0.98 solve the vertical gun alignment?

 

setscale does not work it actually makes the npc smaller thus guaranteeing it will fall from the noose.

 

The only thing that shows up in "Special" are the four noose variants the simple gallows does not even show a picture.

 I have not tried to make the gallows from the console.

[SAC]

 

- Please see the posts between myself and torinarg on page 2 of the thread (last four posts on page 2)

- you don't have the furniture in "special" at all?

- please try building them through console, I gave torinarg the codes

- does setscale 0.98 solve the vertical gun alignment?

 

setscale does not work it actually makes the npc smaller thus guaranteeing it will fall from the noose.

 

The only thing that shows up in "Special" are the four noose variants the simple gallows does not even show a picture.

 I have not tried to make the gallows from the console.

 

 

I am not sure what's happening with the positioning. Please click a failed NPC, getscale from the console and let me know the number it returns. Other than that, no idea but hopefully it will be fixed in the next version.

 

About the buildable gallows and nooses:

- not sure why, but apparently you need to be in god mode in order to build them - I messed up something in the recipe, but can't figure out what. Open console, type tgm <enter>, exit console, enter workshop build mode and you will be able to build them

- the gallows are there, but they don't have an icon - again, not sure why, but they are, in fact, buildable, also in god mode - check out my screenshot

 

LE: I figured out how to add the gallows icon to the menu, it will be fixed in the next version. Also figured out the recipe, apparently you cannot have empty recipes, but they will have to cost some materials (or build them in god mode). However, fixing the recipe seems to screw up the ability to place them anywhere, so I need to look more into it. For the moment, just build them in god mode.

[dharvinia]

 

 

- Please see the posts between myself and torinarg on page 2 of the thread (last four posts on page 2)

- you don't have the furniture in "special" at all?

- please try building them through console, I gave torinarg the codes

- does setscale 0.98 solve the vertical gun alignment?

 

setscale does not work it actually makes the npc smaller thus guaranteeing it will fall from the noose.

 

The only thing that shows up in "Special" are the four noose variants the simple gallows does not even show a picture.

 I have not tried to make the gallows from the console.

 

 

I am not sure what's happening with the positioning. Please click a failed NPC, getscale from the console and let me know the number it returns. Other than that, no idea but hopefully it will be fixed in the next version.

 

About the buildable gallows and nooses:

- not sure why, but apparently you need to be in god mode in order to build them - I messed up something in the recipe, but can't figure out what. Open console, type tgm <enter>, exit console, enter workshop build mode and you will be able to build them

- the gallows are there, but they don't have an icon - again, not sure why, but they are, in fact, buildable, also in god mode - check out my screenshot

 

LE: I figured out how to add the gallows icon to the menu, it will be fixed in the next version. Also figured out the recipe, apparently you cannot have empty recipes, but they will have to cost some materials (or build them in god mode). However, fixing the recipe seems to screw up the ability to place them anywhere, so I need to look more into it. For the moment, just build them in god mode.

 

 

I was able to reproduce the gallows in console mode by finding the REF ID  then using the "placeatme" command.

That being said, the nooses will not attach to the gallows because they are not "snapable" Something to think about down the road.

 

I will get the scale numbers you request next time I log onto my game.  You are right,  if there is a recipe,  you can only build things in buildable areas.

  With the gun I have about a 70% success rate.  The small problem is that if anyone collides with the corpse, they have a good chance of knocking it out of the noose. 

  I did some playing around with the console mode and I was able to get a perfect fit of the noose, but I do not know how to save the settings, because as soon as I leave console mode, everything reverts back to the original setting.

   I truly wish I was more experienced at writing code I would certainly help you more than I am.

 

 

[SAC]

 

I was able to reproduce the gallows in console mode by finding the REF ID  then using the "placeatme" command.

That being said, the nooses will not attach to the gallows because they are not "snapable" Something to think about down the road.

 

I will get the scale numbers you request next time I log onto my game.  You are right,  if there is a recipe,  you can only build things in buildable areas.

  With the gun I have about a 70% success rate.  The small problem is that if anyone collides with the corpse, they have a good chance of knocking it out of the noose. 

  I did some playing around with the console mode and I was able to get a perfect fit of the noose, but I do not know how to save the settings, because as soon as I leave console mode, everything reverts back to the original setting.

   I truly wish I was more experienced at writing code I would certainly help you more than I am.

 

 

Since I am going to be away for a few days, I intended to release a new version this past weekend, however I keep running into all sorts of trouble with the hanging gun, and I don't want to break it. I still need to do some tweaking (and testing...) before uploading it - hopefully next weekend.

 

From what I've seen so far:

- furniture needs to be built in god mode - I don't really see this as a priority issue, just build them in god mode

- you don't need console to build the gallows - it's just the icon which is missing, but the gallows is buildable

- the noose furniture needs to be built on ground, then click on it and modpos z (140 seems ideal to fit the gallows); I am not sure why this happens, and I don't want to mess with the nif files (for now) in order not to break positioning

 

The next release will "feature":

- the hanging gun will trigger a 5-stage process - stage one "pleading", stage two "hanging", stage three "kill", and two stages in ragdoll state, where various impulses are applied to the dead NPC to "simulate" "convulsing" and "swinging" (the last one is pretty much infinite in duration, no idea if and how this will bloat saves / performance / papyrus logs...)

- a pool of 8 animations picked randomly for stages 1 and 2 (but there still is no proper animation available, all are vanilla "placeholders")

- more robust furniture scripting, basically all the features from the hanging gun script, minus the random factored animation for stages 1 and 2 - each individual noose furniture has its own animation

- sounds - so far I managed to add some grunts and coughs, I am trying to also add some spoken lines, but they seem tied to a quest and I need to make them independent somehow

- one hands restraint tying the hands back before killing the NPC - the hands will remain tied afterwards (applied randomly)

 

Current issues:

- the NPC hangs reliably in stages 3 to 5, but can get "loose" during 1 and 2 (then it's snapped into the noose at stage 3) - this was the biggest issue so far, and the main reason why I haven't posted this version yet

- the noose furniture positioning - still can't place it in air, need to put it on the ground and then modpos it; I don't know (yet) how to add snapping points

- the spoken lines need work

- non-standard actor scales are still troublesome (and I don't want to add scaleactor to 1, I want to solve it dinamically)

[dharvinia]

Drop me a pm when you get back and we will continue this conversation then.

 

[SAC]

Uploaded v3.5, make sure you read the long description in order to get the best results.

[SAC]

Added 3.5bugfix1

 

- The hanging gun sets the NPC unconscious, to minimize (eliminate?) sandbox breaking the animation. Downside = NPC closes eyes.
- Added a condition to check if the NPC slipped out of the noose upon death, and cancels the kicks/swings if so

[SAC]

Added v3.6 update

 

- there is a 50% chance of hanging the victim by a reversed noose during the kill stage (reversed = victim facing the knot)
- during the first phase (pleading), the victim will speak some lines - to be expanded (not working for unique NPCs)
- the hanging gun has a 30% chance of equipping the victim with a sack hood
- added two more furnitures: an angled hanging pole, and a vertical hanging pole - direct the victim to "sit" furniture
(the vertical hanging pole has a 50% chance of restraining the victim's feet on kill)
- unified all noose furnitures under one single, random workshop noose furniture => upon placement, it spawns a randomly-animated noose
- various timing, probability and positioning tweaks (e.g. the chair prop now positions correctly for non-standard NPC scales)
- added two screenshots showcasing the new furnitures, and the reverse knot

[kickberg]

Hi, SAC! Can you create hanging on hook? 

[SAC]

I'm not sure about the collision on the meat hook, it's probably not realistic looking. I can attach the noose to a meat hook )

[SAC]

So, the next version was progressing pretty well, until this happened. Any help that would enable me to resume working on the mod would be appreciated.

 

Thanks!

[Guest]

Hi SAC can you make the player character using some scripts to hangs for one minute or half of minute just like on this skyrim modder resource

 

Manoose's Hanging & Impaling spell http://www.loverslab.com/files/file/2606-manooses-hanging-impaling-spell/

Hanging actors on demand http://www.loverslab.com/topic/32700-hanging-actors-on-demand-morbid-proof-of-conceptmodders-resource/

 

And apply that on any of the buildable gallow furniture as well as any buildable nooses?

 

[SAC]

I wish it were possible to use that animation, I love it, but, as far as I know, it's not possible to convert skyrim animations, and I don't know how to make a new one for FO4. If anybody can create the animations, I would be happy to embed them into this mod.