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I'm afraid I don't understand,

 

but I'll try to state this as I think of what little I do think I maybe understand..

 

So your race mod. You converted it from whatever to .esm (F2 the file, rename the file extension)

 

I'm not sure what you mean by allowed_races formlist

 

Again haven't gotten to make my second major attempt yet. RL issues and all that. I might get to tonight. But I guess Race Customizer and its skeleton stuff might be the reason Four isn't working eh?

 

Now Crazy's gun animation thingy. That does work, I played it last night. So I'm not sure that it is an animation issue.

 

 

 

 

Oh well, I've been looking for something to test my race registration code against...

LOL, well as long as its your cup of tea. I mean it is mine, but I don't expect other people to do things their not comfortable with  :cool:

 

 

Well, I don't have to leave it loaded :) Does it automatically override the player's race? All I need is an NPC or two.

 

[edit]

 

looks at the Nexus images...

 

... or does it change everyone in the game? Oh well, I might still be able to softload a couple of race records

 

 

I converted my race to .esm and created a simple patch that adds my race to the allowed_races formlist. Works without issue. I could do it dynamically with a terminal to avoid conflicts with other races just as easily.

 

edit: And there's that RaceCustomizer again. Not sure why that guy insists on messing with the skeleton pathing when there's no need. All four of my races use the default skeleton (in it's default location) without issue. No wonder races that use that thing have such major issues.

 

Trykz

 

 

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I'm afraid I don't understand,

 

but I'll try to state this as I think of what little I do think I maybe understand..

 

So your race mod. You converted it from whatever to .esm (F2 the file, rename the file extension)

 

I'm not sure what you mean by allowed_races formlist

 

Again haven't gotten to make my second major attempt yet. RL issues and all that. I might get to tonight. But I guess Race Customizer and its skeleton stuff might be the reason Four isn't working eh?

 

Now Crazy's gun animation thingy. That does work, I played it last night. So I'm not sure that it is an animation issue.

 

 

I mean I turned it's .esp (plugin) into a .esm (master).

 

ANY race mod that uses a human skeleton does NOT require all that Race Customizer nonsense. If it uses a custom skeleton however, it already has issues because of how the skeletons in FO4 work. When you create a character, the skeleton it's using during character creation isn't the one you use to play the game. The skeleton used in character creation is a "chargen" skeleton, and is used by both the male AND female. After you create a female character, the "female" skeleton is swapped in. Hence, the forced first person camera, and that pause you get right after leaving the mirror. They use those things to hide the scripted skeleton swap (which forces your character to t-pose momentarily as the swap takes place). It's an extremely complex and complicated scripted process of swapping skeletons in and out for different things at the start of the game.

 

Custom races DO NOT require ANY alternate file paths to use the human skeleton. There's too many things going on during the first scenes that can too easily be broken when you start messing with all that stuff.

 

All these "modders" telling people all this different "requirement" garbage is going to make FO4 race modding an even bigger nightmare than it already is. I've seen mods now that modify FAR too many vanilla records. Like the player preset (Unique Player), the human race form (LooksMenu Customization Compendium), and race mods that alter the entire start of the game to make them work.

 

At this rate, multiple race mods will never be able to work together without conflicting with each other, because they're all editing vanilla forms all over the place.

 

If they can't build the shit right, they got no business building it.

 

Trykz

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...

 

 When you create a character, the skeleton it's using during character creation isn't the one you use to play the game. The skeleton used in character creation is a "chargen" skeleton, and is used by both the male AND female. After you create a female character, the "female" skeleton is swapped in.

 

 

just 2 questions:

Where did you get that ? and why should a female actors need a different skeleton than a male ?

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...

 

 When you create a character, the skeleton it's using during character creation isn't the one you use to play the game. The skeleton used in character creation is a "chargen" skeleton, and is used by both the male AND female. After you create a female character, the "female" skeleton is swapped in.

 

 

just 2 questions:

Where did you get that ? and why should a female actors need a different skeleton than a male ?

 

 

Sorry, got confused with Skyrim for a minute there. I meant to say "player" skeleton.

 

But here is an excerpt from the MQ101 quest script that touches a bit on what I'm talking about:

 

;tracker for menu exit
;We only call this if the Player is female and we had to reset the Player actor to be female
If (aksource == PlayerREF) && (asEventName == "CharGenSkeletonReset")
UnregisterForAnimationEvent(PlayerREF, "ChargenSkeletonReset")
;track when we can enable third person
RegisterForAnimationEvent(PlayerREF, "FirstPersonInitialized")


;pull the chargen skeleton off the player before we disable the FemaleSpouse
PlayerREF.SetHasCharGenSkeleton(False)
SpouseFemale.GetActorRef().SetHasCharGenSkeleton(False)
;if the player exits the menu as female, disable the female spouse and put the male spouse in the bathroom
SpouseFemale.GetActorRef().DisableNoWait()
SpouseMale.GetActorRef().moveto(MQ101SpouseMaleMovetoMarker)

And that's only a small part of what's going on during character creation.

 

In any event, it's a whole bunch of stuff that custom races shouldn't be messing with. Because once you start adding multiple custom races to the load order, they're going to conflict with each other while they fight for access to relative formlists.

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I'm afraid I don't understand,

 

but I'll try to state this as I think of what little I do think I maybe understand..

 

So your race mod. You converted it from whatever to .esm (F2 the file, rename the file extension)

 

I'm not sure what you mean by allowed_races formlist

 

Again haven't gotten to make my second major attempt yet. RL issues and all that. I might get to tonight. But I guess Race Customizer and its skeleton stuff might be the reason Four isn't working eh?

 

Now Crazy's gun animation thingy. That does work, I played it last night. So I'm not sure that it is an animation issue.

 

 

I mean I turned it's .esp (plugin) into a .esm (master).

 

ANY race mod that uses a human skeleton does NOT require all that Race Customizer nonsense. If it uses a custom skeleton however, it already has issues because of how the skeletons in FO4 work. When you create a character, the skeleton it's using during character creation isn't the one you use to play the game. The skeleton used in character creation is a "chargen" skeleton, and is used by both the male AND female. After you create a female character, the "female" skeleton is swapped in. Hence, the forced first person camera, and that pause you get right after leaving the mirror. They use those things to hide the scripted skeleton swap (which forces your character to t-pose momentarily as the swap takes place). It's an extremely complex and complicated scripted process of swapping skeletons in and out for different things at the start of the game.

 

Custom races DO NOT require ANY alternate file paths to use the human skeleton. There's too many things going on during the first scenes that can too easily be broken when you start messing with all that stuff.

 

All these "modders" telling people all this different "requirement" garbage is going to make FO4 race modding an even bigger nightmare than it already is. I've seen mods now that modify FAR too many vanilla records. Like the player preset (Unique Player), the human race form (LooksMenu Customization Compendium), and race mods that alter the entire start of the game to make them work.

 

At this rate, multiple race mods will never be able to work together without conflicting with each other, because they're all editing vanilla forms all over the place.

 

If they can't build the shit right, they got no business building it.

 

Trykz

 

 

Trykz, do you have a link to, I don't know, the default skeleton or like one you recommend? I'd like to experiment with replacing the one CAN put in with the sort of thing your talking about and see what happens.

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Not much immediately relevant, but it's nice to see it being actively developed. Maybe that will soothe a few concerns in various quarters.

 

You should tell him he forgot to update the src folder (it's still 0.3.1). :) I don't have an account on reddit to post in the release topic.

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Ok here are my findings..

 

I followed the big Guide ( http://www.loverslab.com/topic/76277-four-play-beginner-friendly-installation-guide-comprehensive-tutorial-to-sexualise-your-fo4/ ) and I did get Four Play to work, however..

 

* When I tested, Four Play does indeed work regardless of whether or not I have Survival Options & Survival Mode activated or not

 

* Preston didn't do anything for some reason

 

* Four Play seemed to work for me regardless of Race Customizer on the human characters in the Test Room

 

* I am unsure how the skeleton thing works. With out Race Customizer, my human characters are greatly deformed. As for my own character, no animation will run on her

 

* Animations never work on my own character. I think its a race issue?  Error message:  "four_play:kidcheck: sex scene aborted due to disallowed actor"  wait. Kid check? WTF?

 

* I have a 40 year old MILF character. I mean besides the age thing, she's also a pony but whatev's LOL

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Trykz, do you have a link to, I don't know, the default skeleton or like one you recommend? I'd like to experiment with replacing the one CAN put in with the sort of thing your talking about and see what happens.

 

 

You already have it. It's in the game files. Though you'll need to extract it from the Meshes.ba2 archive.

 

But reading through your later post about humans being deformed makes me wonder:

 

does this custom race you're using have a working tail or something? Does it walk on all fours? I mean, why does it NEED a special skeleton if it walks upright, uses all the human animations, and just adds a horse head?

 

Seems like just another issue causing mod that utilizes yet another issue causing mod that breaks more than it's worth, and is incompatible with everything. If it uses an upright human skeleton and associated animations, then it doesn't need anything special and should work with the default skeleton that comes with the game.

 

Trykz

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Trykz, do you have a link to, I don't know, the default skeleton or like one you recommend? I'd like to experiment with replacing the one CAN put in with the sort of thing your talking about and see what happens.

 

 

You already have it. It's in the game files. Though you'll need to extract it from the Meshes.ba2 archive.

 

But reading through your later post about humans being deformed makes me wonder:

 

does this custom race you're using have a working tail or something? Does it walk on all fours? I mean, why does it NEED a special skeleton if it walks upright, uses all the human animations, and just adds a horse head?

 

Seems like just another issue causing mod that utilizes yet another issue causing mod that breaks more than it's worth, and is incompatible with everything. If it uses an upright human skeleton and associated animations, then it doesn't need anything special and should work with the default skeleton that comes with the game.

 

Trykz

 

 

Working tail but not on all fours and the deformation is most dramatic in their heads which look melted but have equine features like snout and ears.

 

The odd error message leads me to believe that skeletons have nothing to do with this particular case, but I could be wrong.

 

I just wish Fallout 4 had the same commands like the ability to change your race so that I could test things like converting my character to human. I actually did experiment with console commands, immediate CTD

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Working tail but not on all fours and the deformation is most dramatic in their heads which look melted but have equine features like snout and ears.

 

The odd error message leads me to believe that skeletons have nothing to do with this particular case, but I could be wrong.

 

I just wish Fallout 4 had the same commands like the ability to change your race so that I could test things like converting my character to human. I actually did experiment with console commands, immediate CTD

 

 

I would look into it, but I seriously cannot afford to risk my Data folder right now. I've got a race mod to release this weekend, and a follow-up mod for it I want to get out by September. And losing all that work would make me a not-so-happy camper for sure.

 

My immediate thought is that they made all that Race Customizer / CANS / every whatever dependancy known to man mumbo jumbo just to get a working tail into the game using a custom skeleton. The truth of the matter is, we may never see a real HDT system like Skyrim's in FO4. It's simply a lot of work because both males and females use the same skeleton. Where in Skyrim each gender has it's own. Throw in the chargen skeleton business at character creation, and you intensify that nightmare exponentially.

 

It seems to me (based solely on what I've read) that the race customizer thingy is what is allowing the skeleton to work by using a custom file path. It would also seem that they're replacing the chargen and default skeletons at character creation so you start the game in the bathroom just like humans do by moving those skeletons to another location and redirecting the human, synth, and ghoul races to that new location. I can't say for 100% certain without picking that mess apart to see what makes it tick. But to me it's simply not worth risking my current setup for the extremely limited number of races using it.

 

To be honest, anything that requires all that stuff to make it work simply isn't worth the hassle. Especially given the troubles you're describing. I think you're seeing the very beginnings of more serious issues yet to come.

 

But that's just my opinion. It's your game, so it's up to you how far you're willing to risk it.

 

Sorry I couldn't be more help.

 

Trykz

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Naw its cool man. I wouldn't expect anyone to risk their work and game. Hell I've got an Oblivion save that goes back three PC's.

 

If anything, tho, it was an interesting read. I do Source Filmmaker stuff so the whole swapping things and hiding them from the viewer isn't new to me, just not in this context

 

 

 

Working tail but not on all fours and the deformation is most dramatic in their heads which look melted but have equine features like snout and ears.

 

The odd error message leads me to believe that skeletons have nothing to do with this particular case, but I could be wrong.

 

I just wish Fallout 4 had the same commands like the ability to change your race so that I could test things like converting my character to human. I actually did experiment with console commands, immediate CTD

 

 

I would look into it, but I seriously cannot afford to risk my Data folder right now. I've got a race mod to release this weekend, and a follow-up mod for it I want to get out by September. And losing all that work would make me a not-so-happy camper for sure.

 

My immediate thought is that they made all that Race Customizer / CANS / every whatever dependancy known to man mumbo jumbo just to get a working tail into the game using a custom skeleton. The truth of the matter is, we may never see a real HDT system like Skyrim's in FO4. It's simply a lot of work because both males and females use the same skeleton. Where in Skyrim each gender has it's own. Throw in the chargen skeleton business at character creation, and you intensify that nightmare exponentially.

 

It seems to me (based solely on what I've read) that the race customizer thingy is what is allowing the skeleton to work by using a custom file path. It would also seem that they're replacing the chargen and default skeletons at character creation so you start the game in the bathroom just like humans do by moving those skeletons to another location and redirecting the human, synth, and ghoul races to that new location. I can't say for 100% certain without picking that mess apart to see what makes it tick. But to me it's simply not worth risking my current setup for the extremely limited number of races using it.

 

To be honest, anything that requires all that stuff to make it work simply isn't worth the hassle. Especially given the troubles you're describing. I think you're seeing the very beginnings of more serious issues yet to come.

 

But that's just my opinion. It's your game, so it's up to you how far you're willing to risk it.

 

Sorry I couldn't be more help.

 

Trykz

 

 

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They probably used the same skeleton due to the power armor shamozzle, does it swap skeletons when it swaps bodies for power armor?

 

Seeing as power armor is actually a race, I'm thinking they just swap in the head mesh. Everything else should remain the same.

 

Trykz

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Seeing as power armor is actually a race, I'm thinking they just swap in the head mesh. Everything else should remain the same.

 

Trykz

I guess what we need then is for someone to do a unique player/follower race mod properly. Its going to really be a base resource required by a lot of mods eventually otherwise every race mods going to store its stuff in different folders and locations. It would be nice if someone who knew what they were doing created a simple esm for everyone to reference including the vanilla NPCs.
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Seeing as power armor is actually a race, I'm thinking they just swap in the head mesh. Everything else should remain the same.

 

Trykz

I guess what we need then is for someone to do a unique player/follower race mod properly. Its going to really be a base resource required by a lot of mods eventually otherwise every race mods going to store its stuff in different folders and locations. It would be nice if someone who knew what they were doing created a simple esm for everyone to reference including the vanilla NPCs.

 

 

As much as I hate to say it, I think we're beyond the proverbial "point of no return". Nexus is infested with inexperienced modders who were so hungry for their little slice of modding fame when FO4's CK launched, that they carelessly broke modding's number one rule:

 

NEVER edit vanilla forms for a plugin. Always duplicate and edit. Frameworks are a different story, because they're typically master files that a bunch of other stuff depends on.

 

But at this point there are now so many dirty mods floating all over the place, that compatibility is going to be nearly impossible to achieve. Mostly because those dirty mods were allowed to grow in popularity unchecked. LMCC consolidates human race formlist edits from a bunch of different customization mods. Unique Player modifies the player preset mesh and texture pathing. Both of them are wildly popular, yet neither of them is built with even the slightest regard to compatibility with other mods that need access to all those forms.

 

So yeah, race modding for FO4 is an uphill battle from every angle  :(

 

It's my intent to list those mods (along with a number others) as incompatible with my race mod. So I'm fully prepared to deal with the plethora of "my character doesn't look the same" and "my face is gray!" complaints I will inevitably get from people who install without reading.

 

Trykz

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Something that's been bothering me for a while: I tried to create a new race for testing purposes. SO I duplicated the human race, then I took a couple of raiders, duplicated them, and changed their race to use the duplicate race I'd used.

 

And instantly, they new raiders have no bodies - just heads floating there.

 

It's somewhat academic by this point but, does anyone know here I went wrong? I'd be nice to understand this.

 

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Something that's been bothering me for a while: I tried to create a new race for testing purposes. SO I duplicated the human race, then I took a couple of raiders, duplicated them, and changed their race to use the duplicate race I'd used.

 

And instantly, they new raiders have no bodies - just heads floating there.

 

It's somewhat academic by this point but, does anyone know here I went wrong? I'd be nice to understand this.

 

You have to duplicate the skinnaked armor and armor add on, since the default vanilla doesnt have a flag to use your race records. Or just for testing purposes, open the Armor addon and under additional races, check your custom race. 

 

But in order to have a truly custom race, we need new HumanSubgraphData and PowerArmorData records, and let me tell you its not fun adding line after line of behaviour files

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Something that's been bothering me for a while: I tried to create a new race for testing purposes. SO I duplicated the human race, then I took a couple of raiders, duplicated them, and changed their race to use the duplicate race I'd used.

 

And instantly, they new raiders have no bodies - just heads floating there.

 

It's somewhat academic by this point but, does anyone know here I went wrong? I'd be nice to understand this.

I don't know but I too tried copying the human race a few times to make a Gen3 synth race, but as soon as I assigned it to any actor and viewed them in the CK I got CTD.

I also noticed any editing of actors in FO4Edit will show constantly changing body stuff everytime you open them in FO4Edit the edits you copied from the vanilla are different.

 

As much as I hate to say it, I think we're beyond the proverbial "point of no return". Nexus is infested with inexperienced modders who were so hungry for their little slice of modding fame when FO4's CK launched, that they carelessly broke modding's number one rule:

 

NEVER edit vanilla forms for a plugin. Always duplicate and edit. Frameworks are a different story, because they're typically master files that a bunch of other stuff depends on.

Trykz

I don't believe its too late at all if the experienced modders do something about it, better now than 2 years time, smart modders will make their mods use the race/player/companion framework that's going to work best, and users will just have to swap over to it.

 

I think there's fewer people using those mods than you think, Unique player, CAN etc have such a complicated install, many slightly seasoned people like myself can't be bothered with them anyway for that reason alone, so the average users just going to wreck something then uninstall it. I'd have a crack at it myself but I am busy enough with my own mods and have no idea, I don't want to waste 2 months learning how bodies/skeletons etc interact with race mods and unique actor folders :P

 

And I'm rather interested on how experienced modders can edit the vanilla facial appearance of a vanilla actor without editing any vanilla records without any Papyrus/F4SE commands to do so and how people with zero scripting ability are supposed to do it. Some of the best dialogue/story/clothing/weapon mods around have been done by people who can mesh but can't script.

 

And unfortunately for whatever reason the experienced modders took too long to do anything for their slice of fame, so people just worked with what they had and knew. The CK was late and will probably never leave beta and if we could edit Master files in CK like we could in the GECK it would be a crap load simpler to do a framework mod instead of this renaming esp to esm and reflagging bullcrap everytime you want to add or edit an asset.

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I guess one last question..

 

In this line: 

 

Custom races need to be registered from a script. I've made this as easy as I can:

 

race property my_race auto

; ...

four_play:Main.register_race(my_race)

 

Which script..? Wait your wanting us to make a new script aren't you? Makes no sense to edit an existing one because there will be future updates.

 

I'm sort of script dumb... Like relaly script dumb

 

But I made this:

 

 

Scriptname FPK_Ponner extends ReferenceAlias
 
race property aaaPonyRace auto
 
; ...
 
four_play:Main.register_race(aaaPonyRace)
endEvent

 

 

It doesn't work, so I'm just asking what I did wrong. Still sort of thinking that this is a script problem more than a skeleton problem. My reasoning is the line above and the in-game error message.. plus if it were skeleton problems, the sex animations would turn humans into spaghetti.

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It doesn't work, so I'm just asking what I did wrong. Still sort of thinking that this is a script problem more than a skeleton problem. My reasoning is the line above and the in-game error message.. plus if it were skeleton problems, the sex animations would turn humans into spaghetti.

 

Possibly a silly question, but are you setting the race property in the CK?

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It doesn't work, so I'm just asking what I did wrong. Still sort of thinking that this is a script problem more than a skeleton problem. My reasoning is the line above and the in-game error message.. plus if it were skeleton problems, the sex animations would turn humans into spaghetti.

 

Possibly a silly question, but are you setting the race property in the CK?

 

 

This is embarrassing but like I said I don't know how to access the scripts inside the actual CK. I looked around in it earlier and pulled a couple tutorials up..

 

So I instead found the location of scripts other mods were using (for example FP_VanillaFudge mod), opened up a psc in Notepad, observed it's structure and did the one I posted.

 

Since I couldn't figure out how to access scripts (like you could in the GECK),

 

I thought that it maybe worked the way Source Filmmaker does (you just throw files, including things relating to code, into the folder and if the file is configured right - Source just automatically loads it)

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Ah, OK. You need to open the CK and create a quest. Attach your script to the quest in the CK.

 

If it compiles you'll see the properties in the script dialogue and you can point the property at your race record from there.

 

After that it ought to work.

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