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Four-Play WIP Discussion (was SexTec)


DocClox

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Is it possible for Four Play to detect through tagging or something similar what kind of sex animation is playing? I ask because if you are able to tag these animations then perhaps you could also force FO4 to display an image in the corner similar to quests. If this is indeed possible then perhaps we can recreate something close to Shadman's Vault Meat art pieces when a certain animation type plays.

 

Code is in and working ready for the next release. I was writing loaders for Leito's stuff when the child actor fuss kicked off a few weeks back and I've not managed to get back to it since.

 

I definitely approve of vault meat images popping up. Not sure it should be 4P's responsibility, but I'm willing to be persuaded :)

 

Back on topic, what are you planning on doing DocClox? Do you think creating a F4SE DLL that lets you read and write files is the approach you'll take? I

Veniat's working on the problem and is optimistic about having something in the next few days. Which will be very cool :)

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You can´t blame MCM for people not using that functionality...

 

But, I can observe that it's unlikely that another MCM will lead to mod authors deciding to write that extra code also.

 

 

And there are quite a lot of things you have to do ingame, based of the situation you´re currently in.

Like resetting quest stages, stopping scenes, basically everything debug related not to mention temporarily disabling a mod ( or parts of it )

for compatibility reasons.

 

To me, these are all bugs. They should be sorted out by the authors. Not by users of the mod. It's wild to me that people WANT to debug a game mod as they are playing.

 

 

The whole argument is quite nuts because there is not really a thing against having both.

The MCM saves its values in a file which gets loaded on gameload by standart.

And thats it.

 

I'm pretty sure that an MCM of some kind will be built. I'm just giving my 10 cents, which I doubt will be any influence. :D

 

I think that it generally ended up being a crutch that enabled bad software design decisions and ultimately a degraded gaming experience. It added tons of work/code to mods, making them less readable.

 

Don't get me wrong. I think it was great in theory and an impressive achievement project-wise just in terms of how difficult it was to set up properly and gain wide use/support. Just, on final analysis, imo, mods would be better off building their own in-game controls when needed and relying on straight-forward, light, less obtrusive ini files for settings. There is a reason why even the game itself uses an ini file for the majority of its settings.

 

 

Of course, because it's unfortunately not common practice to begin with, especially not on the Nexus. Instead, modders who make MCMs (which I admit I am guilty of, simply because I forgot the existence of JsonUtil) take the easy route of saving the data in the save itself via script.

 

If the next iteration of the MCM had the option of saving and loading data to/from a separate file (Which I believe it should), it should promote that as the #1-with-a-bullet way to save mod configuration data, so that it can be exported and imported later on. If it doesn't, then yes, you'd be correct to be angry with MCM. And I'd be too.

 

I'm not angry with MCM. I think it was a noble effort and impressive feat.

 

Think of the subject in terms of lines-of-code per unit of value. The cost of building MCM menus was high in terms of lines-of-code. But, the value we got in return for that work, in my judgment was mixed at best. The vast majority of settings being things that a user does not need to be in the game to decide, debugging bugs (is that fun?) and never used options.

 

The problem isn't that MCM is a bad concept. It's that mod authors generally don't have much expertise in user experience design.

 

 

Hell no I'm not going to argue you that coding MCMs isn't a pain in the butt, but the concept of having an MCM is still fantastic for mod users, and if done properly this time around, mod makers.

 

And to add onto that part where you said the code was sometimes larger than the mod's code itself, my mod has 800 lines of code for the main script. The MCM menu is 400. So you aren't wrong there  :P

 

I'm just disappointed that you're willing to through an interesting and useful concept down the drain because "it was tedious to make it last time around" and it didn't automatically throw all the data into a separate file.

 

Also, you can't just say that 99% of the time it's not worth it, that's just a figure you pulled out of thin air if you don't have data to prove it. I'd say that most mods that don't have complex systems are not worth having an MCM over.

 

:D Having to make your code work-load 50% larger to accommodate a menu dependency is a huge cost. Think about that multiplied over every mod. That is a lot of effort that mod authors could have put toward other tasks. I would be with you if the existence of MCM made mods 50% better consistently. My experience was that if I had to go into MCM menus it was for a crappy reason (re-doing settings for the 1000 time, debugging, connecting the mod to other mods, etc).

 

I think that a weird thing happens with modding where tinkering becomes the game itself. I try not to lose sight of the fact that the goal is to enjoy a game. Spending hours in MCM menus (writing them or using them) is time spent away from enjoying the game. And it really isn't necessary.

 

 

Which is why I said later on. Right now, the best option for users would probably be either terminal/message menus or ini files, but both of those include work, one is setting up the menus, the other is coding a DLL for F4SE, which I don't have any experience of.

 

Of course, my hopes and expectations of an MCM are different from each other. I bet if there was an MCM, it wouldn't have the features you or I want, and it'll probably just be as tedious as skyrim's, but for complex mods, MCM with an import and export feature will still be nice to have around.

 

Fortunately, i can't post anymore after this, otherwise i'd keep going offtopic, which is baad. I gotta retire for the day. Let's try to keep the topic discussion about 4P please.

 

 

I think that a dll for reading/writing will be along soon.

 

The MCM for Skyrim was very well written. There isn't going to be a less tedious approach. Defining things for a menu requires a lot of detailing. No practical way around it.

 

[EDIT: I'm going to take back that last line. In theory, an MCM system could be built that generates in-game menus FROM an ini file. That way, no additional code is needed from mod-authors beyond maybe some min/max/type options in ini comments. I could support something like that.]

 

I really think that if people got used to using ini alone instead, most would come around to seeing it as a better long-term solution.

 

 

 

 

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Is it possible for Four Play to detect through tagging or something similar what kind of sex animation is playing? I ask because if you are able to tag these animations then perhaps you could also force FO4 to display an image in the corner similar to quests. If this is indeed possible then perhaps we can recreate something close to Shadman's Vault Meat art pieces when a certain animation type plays.

Code is in and working ready for the next release. I was writing loaders for Leito's stuff when the child actor fuss kicked off a few weeks back and I've not managed to get back to it since.

 

I definitely approve of vault meat images popping up. Not sure it should be 4P's responsibility, but I'm willing to be persuaded :)

Back on topic, what are you planning on doing DocClox? Do you think creating a F4SE DLL that lets you read and write files is the approach you'll take? I

Veniat's working on the problem and is optimistic about having something in the next few days. Which will be very cool :)

Wow that's sounds great! My only argument for the persuation would be that if both of these are coming from the framework itself rather than one being dependent on one another is stability. There could be issues with the upgrades as you work in further developing the framework. I also have other assets for pregnancy, bondage, slavery and I hope that the current modders like Kimy and AG12 would be open to a similar proposition.

I just hope that you would accept!

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Wow that's sounds great! My only argument for the persuation would be that if both of these are coming from the framework itself rather than one being dependent on one another is stability. There could be issues with the upgrades as you work in further developing the framework. I also have other assets for pregnancy, bondage, slavery and I hope that the current modders like Kimy and AG12 would be open to a similar proposition.

Well, against that:

  • I'd need to work out how to do it
  • I have a lot of stuff to do already
  • It's something else to maintain, and maintenance gets harder the more components there are in the system
  • ... and probably that not everyone else will want this.

I think I'd be happier if another mod was to listen for events involving the PC and use them to put up and take down the images.

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I think that's fair, this is after a purely cosmetic gimick anyway. Perhaps the best compromise be is that you could do is lay some ground work to pop these images up? The framework wont be doing anything by itself but has the capacity to do it once the right images and paths have been selected. That way future upgrades will always have a skeleton of what is required and someone with less understanding of Four Play could to take a crack at this.

 

Would such a thing be possible?

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 There could be issues with the upgrades as you work in further developing the framework.

 

 

I don´t think so, all you would need to do is listening for a "stage start" event wich is sending the type of act and some other info with its arguments,

based on that info you need to assign a perk to the player / actor wich is then showing the flash file.

Should already be possible for a generic scene start image.

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 There could be issues with the upgrades as you work in further developing the framework.

 

 

I don´t think so, all you would need to do is listening for a "stage start" event wich is sending the type of act and some other info with its arguments,

based on that info you need to assign a perk to the player / actor wich is then showing the flash file.

Should already be possible for a generic scene start image.

 

 

Well that's good to hear.

I guess there should not be any huge issues with the vault meat support idea where Four Play is concerned.

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With the Four-Play addons like VanillaFudge and Prostitution, is it possible to set it so that anytime a female character engages with the player character, the player character is put in the 'female' part of the positions for the animation?


 


To be specific, is it possible to make a female player character take the sub role to female NPC's when they are approached, or ask, or what have you. 


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With the Four-Play addons like VanillaFudge and Prostitution, is it possible to set it so that anytime a female character engages with the player character, the player character is put in the 'female' part of the positions for the animation?

 

To be specific, is it possible to make a female player character take the sub role to female NPC's when they are approached, or ask, or what have you. 

 

 

Currently, the mods that call sex with the player in the female position would have to use four_play_main() and set up their own list of idles that are to be used during sex. Most mods that i've checked out just use four_play(), which is the easy setup to do most sex scenarios, and would put the player in the male position if their game set sex is male, and visa versa.

 

Forcing other mods to use the player as the female position may require something like what sexlab did, with a built in gender override that says the player (or an NPC of your choosing) will be the female submissive position of the sex animation.

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Wow that's sounds great! My only argument for the persuation would be that if both of these are coming from the framework itself rather than one being dependent on one another is stability. There could be issues with the upgrades as you work in further developing the framework. I also have other assets for pregnancy, bondage, slavery and I hope that the current modders like Kimy and AG12 would be open to a similar proposition.

Well, against that:

  • I'd need to work out how to do it
  • I have a lot of stuff to do already
  • It's something else to maintain, and maintenance gets harder the more components there are in the system
  • ... and probably that not everyone else will want this.

I think I'd be happier if another mod was to listen for events involving the PC and use them to put up and take down the images.

 

 

 

I think that's fair, this is after a purely cosmetic gimick anyway. Perhaps the best compromise be is that you could do is lay some ground work to pop these images up? The framework wont be doing anything by itself but has the capacity to do it once the right images and paths have been selected. That way future upgrades will always have a skeleton of what is required and someone with less understanding of Four Play could to take a crack at this.

 

Would such a thing be possible?

 

I haven't tested all of the new F4SE capabilities yet. So, there could end up being some kind of a hitch.

 

But, assuming all works, I can build this with placeholders and options for you to add whatever graphics you want. You will most likely need to put the graphics (can be animations also) in a swf. I don't think that Scaleform allows loading bitmaps.

 

Just let me know the events to listen for and the data/tags that will be sent.

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I think that's fair, this is after a purely cosmetic gimick anyway. Perhaps the best compromise be is that you could do is lay some ground work to pop these images up? The framework wont be doing anything by itself but has the capacity to do it once the right images and paths have been selected. That way future upgrades will always have a skeleton of what is required and someone with less understanding of Four Play could to take a crack at this.

 

Would such a thing be possible?

 

I haven't tested all of the new F4SE capabilities yet. So, there could end up being some kind of a hitch.

 

But, assuming all works, I can build this with placeholders and options for you to add whatever graphics you want. You will most likely need to put the graphics (can be animations also) in a swf. I don't think that Scaleform allows loading bitmaps.

 

Just let me know the events to listen for and the data/tags that will be sent.

 

 

Thanks! Integrating this stuff is way beyond me.

After a little looking around last night I think that this vault meat thing is going to be its own beast.

I made a thread here a little while ago which kind of highlights all the assets I have and what they fall under.

 

The only thing left for me to figure out with the images is the dimensions needed for the SWF files. I have been trying to find them in the vanilla folders to have an example to follow but no such luck yet.

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Thanks! Integrating this stuff is way beyond me.

After a little looking around last night I think that this vault meat thing is going to be its own beast.

I made a thread here a little while ago which kind of highlights all the assets I have and what they fall under.

 

The only thing left for me to figure out with the images is the dimensions needed for the SWF files. I have been trying to find them in the vanilla folders to have an example to follow but no such luck yet.

 

 

I'll set up the code part of it with example content files.

 

Then, you (or anyone else) can make packs that get loaded over the placeholder/example swfs.

 

The packs will consist of a number of swf files and a simple XML file that defines what state each swf is for. I can help explain how to update the XML if needed. It will be easy.

 

From there, anyone can try different size images, etc. to test in game to see what works best.

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That sounds great I really appreciate

Your help! Would it be possible to add lines of text that appears with the image too? Where can we make the image appear?

 

Oh and I think we should go to the thread I mentioned before. Kind of going off topic in this thread :)

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Is there a guide for modders on how to script a sex scene?  (I've looked in various threads and missed it if it's there...)

 

Look at the Starting a Sex Scene section of my Modders' Tutorial  - link in signature

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ey DocClox

function register_race_inner(race r) 
	init_blacklist()
;
;	bounce blacklisted races
;
	if real_race_blacklist.find(r) >= 0
		return 		; on yer bike!
	endif
	real_race_whitelist.add(r)
endfunction

This doesn't have a check on whether a race is already inside the array. So you could have multiple copies of a custom race if it were registered more than once.

 

Also, could you make Register_Race return an Int code that responds if a race was successfully added or not? I can't seem to register a custom race with this code:

Scriptname AddRaceToWhitelist extends Quest

Race Property RaceToAdd Auto Const 

Event OnInit()

	four_play:main.register_race(RaceToAdd)

EndEvent

And it would be nice if registering stuff like this returned codes that signal a success or a failure, and why it failed (like 1 for success, 0 for general failure, -1 for failure due to blacklist, etc...) so that way people can figure out if their registering of custom races is working or not.

 

In fact, it'd be nice in general for functions that register things like animations and races to return codes that signal success or failure. It helps make bug testing a lot easier.

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This doesn't have a check on whether a race is already inside the array. So you could have multiple copies of a custom race if it were registered more than once.

 

I could have sworn I'd done that. Good catch.

 

Also, could you make Register_Race return an Int code that responds if a race was successfully added or not? I can't seem to register a custom race with this code:

Sounds reasonable.

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