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[HDT SMP] [HDT PE] Missconseptions about skyrim physics


aquaraider11

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So, these are some misconceptions about skyrim physics that i noticed are common or realy off the mark and i would like to fix them.

 

DISCLAIMER i also am human so if you notice something in my post, pleace tell me so i can fix it :)

 

  • Q: What is HDT SMP
  • A: HDT SMP is replacement for HDT PE done by Hydrogen because Havoc Content Tools [HCT] is no longer publicly abailable

 

  • Q: Whats the difference?
  • A: SMP uses Bullet physics which is much more reliable than Havok that skyrim uses, thus it can achieve better performance than PE and has more reliable physics.

 

  •  Q: what does that mean from modders vievpoint?
  • A: you dont need to use HCT and you dont need anything related to havok for SMP Also SMP uses much simpler workflow, when you dont need to mess with havok and you will have much easier syntax XML so you dont nessessarily need tools like JFF through they also would be usefull. Also would be easier to create those tools.

 

  • Q: All my mods use PE, why should i switch to SMP?
  • A: Because there will be no NEW PE mod creators so there will not be time when there will be now new PE mods because there is no tools for that, but SMP will have mods.

 

  • Q: Can i mix PE and SMP,
  • A: yes, but its not recommended, and no for the same mesh.

 

  • Q: can you use SMP for more than boobs?
  • A: Yes and its even easier than on PE

 

Notify if i missed anything

 

Points that i missed [Copyed here, so that everyone sees without reading comments...]

 

  • bullet physics brings the possibility to use the mesh as collision object.
  • because lack of hct there is a editet blender version which let you export data about collisionshapes and stuff right into a .bullet file so you can actually have mutiple constraint setups on one mesh without messing in it..

 

  • you can find the blender version here

  • guide about .bullet files here

  • file with .bullet extradata here

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smp got worse performance if handled on cpu..i run it on gpu and its sometimes very hungry..

 

smp cant handle real hairs right now...

 

one thing you didnt told is about smp:

 

because lack of hct there is a editet blender version which let you export data about collisionshapes and stuff right into a .bullet file so you can actually have mutiple constraint setups on one mesh without messing in it... i found this information VERY neccesary.

 

bullet physics brings the possibility to use the mesh as collision object.

its used in gta iv and 5 also..

 

you can find the blender version here

guide about .bullet files here

file with .bullet extradata here

 

 

one thing to mention is the memory.

if you combine smp with enb you will most likely get conflicts with it..

 

 

personally i dont think there wont be any more pe mods just because not everybody can effort a graphic cards with opengl support and there are still some guys lurking around with the hct... nothing will be removed from the internet only because intel bought it^^

 

i recommend using hdt pe for hairs and equipment and nothing else..

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smp got worse performance if handled on cpu..i run it on gpu and its sometimes very hungry..

 

because lack of hct there is a editet blender version which let you export data about collisionshapes and stuff right into a .bullet file so you can actually have mutiple constraint setups on one mesh without messing in it... i found this information VERY neccesary.

 

you can find the blender version here

guide about .bullet files here

file with .bullet extradata here

 

personally i dont think there wont be any more pe mods just because not everybody can effort a graphic cards with opengl support and there are still some guys lurking around with the hct... nothing will be removed from the internet only because intel bought it^^

 

i recommend using hdt pe for hairs and equipment and nothing else..

 

Did not know the blender thingy, i think i could learn a lot from you about SMP and other stuff...

 

Also thanks for links

 

and i disagree about PE not being obsolete, or atleast i wish it would become obsolete :)

 

And mostly my point with this thread was to assess misconseptions like "SMP needs havok content tools" and similar major "miss steps"

 

EDIT: I added few of your tips you mentioned to first post, if you don't mind.

 

EDIT2: Does those .bullet thingys NEED blender or is there 3DS MAX version or standalone version?

 

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Actually I'm in the middle of making another HDT PE mod (no body physics mod this time) so this isn't correct:

 

 

Because there will be no NEW PE mod creators so there will not be time when there will be now new PE mods because there is no tools for that, but SMP will have mods.

 

Also bad grammar! Just baaaaaaaad!!!  :P

 

And about that HCT tool: I heard good things about it but personally never used it. So I'm starting to think that I might have missed out on something to make things a lot easier for me. ^^

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smp got worse performance if handled on cpu..i run it on gpu and its sometimes very hungry..

 

because lack of hct there is a editet blender version which let you export data about collisionshapes and stuff right into a .bullet file so you can actually have mutiple constraint setups on one mesh without messing in it... i found this information VERY neccesary.

 

you can find the blender version here

guide about .bullet files here

file with .bullet extradata here

 

personally i dont think there wont be any more pe mods just because not everybody can effort a graphic cards with opengl support and there are still some guys lurking around with the hct... nothing will be removed from the internet only because intel bought it^^

 

i recommend using hdt pe for hairs and equipment and nothing else..

 

Did not know the blender thingy, i think i could learn a lot from you about SMP and other stuff...

 

Also thanks for links

 

and i disagree about PE not being obsolete, or atleast i wish it would become obsolete :)

 

And mostly my point with this thread was to assess misconseptions like "SMP needs havok content tools" and similar major "miss steps"

 

EDIT: I added few of your tips you mentioned to first post, if you don't mind.

 

EDIT2: Does those .bullet thingys NEED blender or is there 3DS MAX version or standalone version?

 

 

the plugin appears to be only for maya and blender.. and they modified a specific blender version for it.. it will be most likely doable with 3ds too but they dont list a plug.

 

every beeing that is possible to google will find hct fast

every beeing that purposes himself to be a student will get 3ds max free

no lack of tools

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  • Q: Can i mix PE and SMP,
  • A: yes, but its not recommended, and no for the same mesh.

 

its totaly recommended to mix it, use pe weapon slings and hairs + smp body ist the best you can have atm, its totaly unrecommended if one doesnt know how to differ set it up

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Actually I'm in the middle of making another HDT PE mod (no body physics mod this time) so this isn't correct:

 

 

Because there will be no NEW PE mod creators so there will not be time when there will be now new PE mods because there is no tools for that, but SMP will have mods.

 

Also bad grammar! Just baaaaaaaad!!!  :P

 

And about that HCT tool: I heard good things about it but personally never used it. So I'm starting to think that I might have missed out on something to make things a lot easier for me. ^^

Grammar: I knoooow ;_; i could not bother at that point of writing, as it was soo long!! And i was busy!

 

How do you create new bones for custom mesh without HCT on PE?

 

Technically speaking, HDT PE can stick around forever - There are enough bone setups and XML's out there that can be reused to cover pretty much every imaginable use for it.

 

>Technically speaking, HDT PE can stick around forever

 

Yes, anything can, but question is should it if its not being updated / maintained?

 

>There are enough bone setups and XML's out there that can be reused to cover pretty much every imaginable use for it.

 

Can you create physics enabled ears without creating new bones on HDT PE? No you can't can you create new bones on HDT PE without HCT? no you (probably) can't

 

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Can you create physics enabled ears without creating new bones on HDT PE? No you can't can you create new bones on HDT PE without HCT? no you (probably) can't

 

 

you can create bones in outfitstudio, also copy weights there..so you can take other hdt ears and copy it over.. same for hairs and bodys..

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Can you create physics enabled ears without creating new bones on HDT PE? No you can't can you create new bones on HDT PE without HCT? no you (probably) can't

 

 

you can create bones in outfitstudio, also copy weights there..so you can take other hdt ears and copy it over.. same for hairs and bodys..

 

 

^^ Bingo :)

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Can you create physics enabled ears without creating new bones on HDT PE? No you can't can you create new bones on HDT PE without HCT? no you (probably) can't

 

 

you can create bones in outfitstudio, also copy weights there..so you can take other hdt ears and copy it over.. same for hairs and bodys..

 

How many good elf ears have you seen, not to speak of even HDT enabled ones?  (i have not seen any, even my ones don't have texture :C)

 

But that's besides the point. So you can create bones in outfitstudio? ok how about HCT bone nubs and shit that i remember learning about when i tried to use it and watched some half assed tutorial that suckked ass.. But fine! I admit, there propably will allways be some one who insist on staying on using PE

 

I just want to get rid of whole thing as its much more complicated and imo ANNOYING than SMP.

 

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Would love to see SMP in a video where graphics are also high-end.

The one video on you-tube shows his SMP outfitted character with lots of different outfits in different settings.

SMP stuff moves really nice.

But graphics are ground-level basic vanilla like.

Is that the trade-off?

 

Have been following SMP threads for months, and seems that using SMP with ENB and ENBboost is just not a reliable option?

(am a Win 7 user, 4gb Vid card, 16gbRam using ENBv308 - hate to lose the benefits for a heavier modded game )

Or has anyone found a way?

 

 

 

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Would love to see SMP in a video where graphics are also high-end.

The one video on you-tube shows his SMP outfitted character with lots of different outfits in different settings.

SMP stuff moves really nice.

But graphics are ground-level basic vanilla like.

Is that the trade-off?

 

Have been following SMP threads for months, and seems that using SMP with ENB and ENBboost is just not a reliable option?

(am a Win 7 user, 4gb Vid card, 16gbRam using ENBv308 - hate to lose the benefits for a heavier modded game )

Or has anyone found a way?

 

i use enb 308(enabled) + sheasons patch + smp + pe and it works really fine.. im on windows 10, 2gb vram 24gb ram, i have non of these memory errors desribed here, i use the new smp files form 2016..4k textures bla bla bla you can see some screens of mine anywhere here..i have basic 45-59 fps, in whiterun with many characters loaded+opencieties 40 fps with all collisions turned on.. round about 60 gb mods installed.

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  • 11 months later...
On 1/25/2017 at 4:14 PM, prZ said:

 

i use enb 308(enabled) + sheasons patch + smp + pe and it works really fine.. im on windows 10, 2gb vram 24gb ram, i have non of these memory errors desribed here, i use the new smp files form 2016..4k textures bla bla bla you can see some screens of mine anywhere here..i have basic 45-59 fps, in whiterun with many characters loaded+opencieties 40 fps with all collisions turned on.. round about 60 gb mods installed.

Can armor with SMP be converted in OutFit Studio? can it be just copy the bone weight?

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On 1/24/2017 at 8:15 PM, SassaAria said:

Would love to see SMP in a video where graphics are also high-end.

The one video on you-tube shows his SMP outfitted character with lots of different outfits in different settings.

SMP stuff moves really nice.

But graphics are ground-level basic vanilla like.

Is that the trade-off?

 

Have been following SMP threads for months, and seems that using SMP with ENB and ENBboost is just not a reliable option?

(am a Win 7 user, 4gb Vid card, 16gbRam using ENBv308 - hate to lose the benefits for a heavier modded game )

Or has anyone found a way?

 

 

 

Average 40 FPS outdoors (outdoors is a good way to benchmark as its graphically and process heavy, indoors 60 stable) with an almost fully SMP enabled character body ( no forearms )and ENB with most ENB settings turned on. 

 

I did lower a few ENB bits like Sub Surface Scattering (I painted SSS onto my femalebody texture directly to get a look i like )that I felt made no difference to my visuals. I usually find the performance hits come from SMP xmls that have collisions shapes which arn't properly defined to NOT collide with everything.

 

Gotta fine tune the collisions of everything, For example, you don't want to have your body setup to collide with maleHands. As the moment you enter somewhere with many males, there goes your fps. Rather you want to fine tune the parts that you want maleHands to collide with (butt,breasts, genitals) etc etc.

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9 hours ago, darkevilhum said:

snip

 

Thanks for reply :classic_smile:

Just so you know, LOL, that post of mine was from last January last year in 2017.

Shortly after that post, made the move to SMP, and have been loving it ever since. :classic_wub:

ENB and SMP can work together, but both can be demanding depending what you want.

 

The hands issue is huge for some of us :classic_tongue:

Equippable hand proxy for all my besties and my toon has helped enormously with my setup.

With a heavier ENB outside (especially shadow rendering distance/resolution, flames and other long distance rendering) it takes alot of tweaking if your trying to push limits to make both ENB and SMP work. 

Course it's all a matter of taste.

Am rocking a 30k UUNP BSL  body + 14k labia with lotsa actresses on screen at once, and extra bounce for hips and stuff.

Still alpha-WIP, cause just not finding time to work on it right now.

I like the effect, but not to everyones taste prbly, lol.

(maybe World would be a boring place if we all wanted the same flavor - depends who you ask.)

 

If you ever feel like posting the SSS (or PMing it), would love to see it.  Especially if you have a comparison for your setup of what you had before and what new looks like in new setting

 

 

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22 hours ago, SassaAria said:

 

Thanks for reply :classic_smile:

Just so you know, LOL, that post of mine was from last January last year in 2017.

Shortly after that post, made the move to SMP, and have been loving it ever since. :classic_wub:

ENB and SMP can work together, but both can be demanding depending what you want.

 

The hands issue is huge for some of us :classic_tongue:

Equippable hand proxy for all my besties and my toon has helped enormously with my setup.

With a heavier ENB outside (especially shadow rendering distance/resolution, flames and other long distance rendering) it takes alot of tweaking if your trying to push limits to make both ENB and SMP work. 

Course it's all a matter of taste.

Am rocking a 30k UUNP BSL  body + 14k labia with lotsa actresses on screen at once, and extra bounce for hips and stuff.

Still alpha-WIP, cause just not finding time to work on it right now.

I like the effect, but not to everyones taste prbly, lol.

(maybe World would be a boring place if we all wanted the same flavor - depends who you ask.)

 

If you ever feel like posting the SSS (or PMing it), would love to see it.  Especially if you have a comparison for your setup of what you had before and what new looks like in new setting

 

 

 

This... 30k UUNP you have... you're my best friend;). I had a couple goes a while back at upscaling the default UUNP for a higher poly variant, but my 3d modelling knowledge is limited and I could never get a functioning exported mesh :confused:

 

My SSS was really just me turning off SSS in ENB and then adding pink skin highlights onto my texture for a very specific look that I like on my women (knees, elbows etc, wherever the blood goesss):tongue:

 

I think the most impactful ENB setting for me is Reflections, turning them off gives me loads of frames and I don't really think they add much, for me it looks like a performance heavy additional layer of specular highlights (maybe because the reflections are low quality in skyrim?). And I turn up my specular anyway as I like seeing skin shine a little so.. eh

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