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Is it just me, or ENB on SSE looks worse than with Oldrim?

Slaves of Tamriel

By Slaves of Tamriel,
in Skyrim: Special Edition

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Shiratama

Shiratama

Posted
Posted

 

SSE Enb is worse on performance than the old one.

i disagree on this part im using rudy enb for both games with almost same visual mods SMIM + Noble skyrim HD + verdant grass + SFO and im getting smooth framerates on SSE than i had on oldrim. also games feels more smooth on SSE whereas on oldrim i get many stutters.

 

Rudy for SSE has less features than Rudy for classic. DX11 draw calls are faster than DX9. And ofc better memory management. That's where your better performance comes from. Boris outright stated his implementation for SSE is slower (because of DX11, ironically) -- you can disagree all you like but I'm willing to believe the actual dev over your personal experience.

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RUD3DUD3

RUD3DUD3

Posted
Posted

 

what cpu you have ? or VGA ? to have 60 fps in city

My system is old and i don't think it is capable of 1080p gaming :

 i5 2500k 

gtx 960 4gb

8gb ram

 

 

 

post-98324-0-89034600-1481903871_thumb.jpgpost-98324-0-25012200-1481903874_thumb.jpgpost-98324-0-95148000-1481903875_thumb.jpgpost-98324-0-04872000-1481903877_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

SSE Enb is worse on performance than the old one.

i disagree on this part im using rudy enb for both games with almost same visual mods SMIM + Noble skyrim HD + verdant grass + SFO and im getting smooth framerates on SSE than i had on oldrim. also games feels more smooth on SSE whereas on oldrim i get many stutters.

 

Rudy for SSE has less features than Rudy for classic. DX11 draw calls are faster than DX9. And ofc better memory management. That's where your better performance comes from. Boris outright stated his implementation for SSE is slower (because of DX11, ironically) -- you can disagree all you like but I'm willing to believe the actual dev over your personal experience.

i already said that in my previous post about visual difference in enb and turned on only those settings which are present in rudy enb for SSE in enbseries.ini. 

 

 

post-98324-0-37279800-1481904148_thumb.jpg

 

 

i forgot to turn on fraps fps counter to show in screenshots but you can see steam overlays fps counter. ( sse screenshot is above for comparison )

i don't even have SMIM and Noble skyrim installed for oldrim coz im basically not playing it anymore but getting 38 fps in same place.

I believe only what i see in game.

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yatol

yatol

Posted
Posted

 

I believe only what i see in game.

 

 

really?

 

 

 

enb off

161213065021455974.jpg

enb on, nothing activated

161213065025764856.jpg

enb on, everything activated

161213065015763194.jpg

it's normal for enb to eat less fps in sse if it have less stuff

 

don't know what would be the fps in that spot without enb, that would be a ram ctd

don't know either if loading the game with UsePatchSpeedhackWithoutGraphics=true would be 38 fps

oh, i know that enb performance suck, just checking the new stuff

 

 

 

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peculiaris

peculiaris

Posted
Posted

Newer version of DirectX and a switch to the x64 instruction set which greatly increases ram availability can only mean better performance...

 

If it looks worse is up to the development of the current ENB version and The compatibility with the newer DX version...

 

So no it shouldn't run worse, and if it does it could very likely be hardware related. For example having an older gpu without proper DX11 support.

I did spot a quote from an ENB dev saying that DX11 hinders ENB features older DX version did have.

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27X

27X

Posted
Posted

I know it often leads to a heated debate when someone begins to compare SSE with Oldrim, so I'll try to be careful not to start a new one.

 

I had been away from Skyrim for awhile and recently decided to return, so I had to install it from scratch. Then I realized there was a new 64bit edition, so I thought I could give it a shot.

 

I was impressed by its stability, especially as I use a lot of 4k textures and run Skyrim on Windows 10, which has a well known limitation with DX9 that makes memory management with Oldrim even more problematic.

 

But I found that the new 64bit edition doesn't really look great, compared to what I was used to with my old setup. I tried various ENB settings, but all of them looked either too much saturated or washed out to my eyes for some reason.

 

So I installed Oldrim with RealVision with the same texture mods for comparison, and I could easily recreate the visual quality I liked before. Besides RealVision, I used Sharpshooter ENB before, and they both have such distinctive sharpness and deep contrast which I couldn't find in a few recommended ENB which support SSE.

 

I looked other people's screenshots of SSE and I noticed almost all of them have such washed out, or overly saturated feel with them, while none of them resemble those visual traits found in RealVision or Sharpshooter.

 

So, my question is, is it just me or are there any real differences between visual qualities between SSE and the old Skyrim, especially when it comes to ENB settings? Is there anyone who noticed similar limitations in ENB settings on SSE beside me?

 

I'm not trying to criticize SSE, because I'd be willing to migrate to SSE if not for such a problem, and when I can find replacements for most of the mods I use (which is well over 200 so, obviously it will take sometime though).

 

Now, my Oldrim is really pushing its limit so I can't even load any saved games which isn't made in interior space, so I always have to load some 'safe save' first before I can load my real saved game. So I'll only be happy to have a more stable version of Skyrim, if only it can look as good as the old one, and provides a similar range of mod selections.

 

That 32 looks better than 64 is a fact, not an opinion, and no amount of opinion can change that, 64 has precompiled shaders and thus cannot support indirect lighting of any kind short of code-replacement injection. Period. the end. No shaded projection, no subsurface, no SSIL, no ambient lighitng, no skylighting, no reflected or bounce lighting from any source.

 

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peculiaris

peculiaris

Posted
Posted

 

Newer version of DirectX and a switch to the x64 instruction set which greatly increases ram availability can only mean better performance...

 

really?

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/68874-sse-criticism-thread/?p=1749052

 

 

16112911114751616.jpg

 

161129111159629801.jpg

 

16112911115149586.jpg

 

 

well... you can expect more fps with sse since you can't use much with it^^

 

 

Nice screenshot but without knowing the source they are completely useless.

 

 

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DurtyNelly

DurtyNelly

Posted
Posted

I'm using Ruby + RLO + Climates of Tamriel in SSE. I have to agree that the game looks different than Oldrim, but I don't think it's bad. I'm enjoying it, and the fps and stability I'm personally getting. That is just me. I spent more time modding and trying to get Oldrim stable than playing, so SSE is kind of fun and refreshing for me at this point in time.

 

 

20161214210254_1%202_zpsabapnle4.jpg

            20161214205708_1%202_zpsziprvmar.jpg

            20161215154349_1%202_zpsn8crunek.jpg

            20161215215039_1%202_zpsbhc6veyt.jpg

            20161213171535_1%202_zpszjm8irs4.jpg

 

 

   

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Nefim

Nefim

Posted
Posted

Right to be clear, ENB for SSE will be limited when compared to oldrim. I am not saying that it will look worse but...

 

"If game will be dx11, i doubt about it's graphical modding abilities, because of crap B*da made to Fallout 4 shaders (removed information for shader variables, so automatic algorithms for modifying shaders can't be applied)." -Boris,

 

This means that We might not ever see the same level of ENB that we do for oldrim. At least, not anytime soon. That being said .... I have seen some AMAZING ENB screens for SSE.  Wish I remembered where....

 

As for loading saves...on your oldrim game. Try using Crash Fixes. IT seems to help a lot of people. if that doesn't work then there IS one last mod you could try. 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/78557/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fskyrim%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D78557%26preview%3D&pUp=1

 

I haven't used this mod myself but if Crash Fixes doesn't work it can't hurt to try it. 

 

EDIT: I really like the screenshots above my post....

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Slaves of Tamriel

Slaves of Tamriel

Posted
  • Author
Posted

As for loading saves...on your oldrim game. Try using Crash Fixes. IT seems to help a lot of people. if that doesn't work then there IS one last mod you could try. 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/78557/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fskyrim%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D78557%26preview%3D&pUp=1

 

I haven't used this mod myself but if Crash Fixes doesn't work it can't hurt to try it. 

 

EDIT: I really like the screenshots above my post....

 

I'm already using it and it was really helpful so far. But the other mod finally fixed the problem for me!

 

Thanks much for the suggestion :)

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peculiaris

peculiaris

Posted
Posted

 

 

Nice screenshot but without knowing the source they are completely useless.

 

 

you are too lazy to type the video name in youtube?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT5XOCnGueo

and if you bother checking that video, you'll notice sse fall behind once in helgen

 

 

The owner of the video has dated hardware, because my SSE with mods keeps a steady 60 fps but my oldrim with mods doesn't so...

 

My specs:

CPU Intel Core I7 4790k @ 4.4Ghz. 

GPU Gigabyte Geforce GTX 1060 G1 Gaming 6GB.

RAM Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB 1600Mhz.

SSD OCZ TR150 240GB. 

HDD Seagate Barracuda 1TB.

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yatol

yatol

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

Nice screenshot but without knowing the source they are completely useless.

 

 

you are too lazy to type the video name in youtube?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT5XOCnGueo

and if you bother checking that video, you'll notice sse fall behind once in helgen

 

 

The owner of the video has dated hardware, because my SSE with mods keeps a steady 60 fps but my oldrim with mods doesn't so...

 

My specs:

CPU Intel Core I7 4790k @ 4.4Ghz. 

GPU Gigabyte Geforce GTX 1060 G1 Gaming 6GB.

RAM Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB 1600Mhz.

SSD OCZ TR150 240GB. 

HDD Seagate Barracuda 1TB.

 

 

what's the problem with his hardware? if sse is more performance friendly, it should run better, on a nasa pc and on a potato

 

he have post a video showing his fps on skyrim helgen start and sse helgen start, without mods since there isn't much for sse

and you have post some blabla with nothing to compare your "60 fps sse" to your "not 60 fps skyrim", that's useless, unlike his vid

 

 

 

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peculiaris

peculiaris

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

 

Nice screenshot but without knowing the source they are completely useless.

 

 

you are too lazy to type the video name in youtube?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT5XOCnGueo

and if you bother checking that video, you'll notice sse fall behind once in helgen

 

 

The owner of the video has dated hardware, because my SSE with mods keeps a steady 60 fps but my oldrim with mods doesn't so...

 

My specs:

CPU Intel Core I7 4790k @ 4.4Ghz. 

GPU Gigabyte Geforce GTX 1060 G1 Gaming 6GB.

RAM Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB 1600Mhz.

SSD OCZ TR150 240GB. 

HDD Seagate Barracuda 1TB.

 

 

what's the problem with his hardware? if sse is more performance friendly, it should run better, on a nasa pc and on a potato

 

he have post a video showing his fps on skyrim helgen start and sse helgen start, without mods since there isn't much for sse

and you have post some blabla with nothing to compare your "60 fps sse" to your "not 60 fps skyrim", that's useless, unlike his vid

 

 

Ok its really hard to discuss hardware and software compatibility and performance with someone who doesn't fully understand the subject but I'll try anyway.

 

In the video "Oldrim" has better performance then "SSE" this should not be because SSE is running a newer version of the creation engine that has support for more RAM usage and is in general better optimized, But because the hardware used is already dated and back then it would be considered "Budget" hardware the results are reversed. So when someone with more recent hardware lets say my setup tries to recreate the results I wouldn't be able to because SSE will take much more performance from my components.

 

So yes SSE could theoretically run worse on someone's setup, But only if they haven't upgraded their PC in a little while.

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yatol

yatol

Posted
Posted

 

Ok its really hard to discuss hardware and software compatibility and performance with someone who doesn't fully understand the subject but I'll try anyway.

 

 

nice joke coming from someone that don't even bother looking for performance comparaison

 

want to know a reason he have less fps with sse? because he didn't load it with skyrim texture bsa (not much difference between 1k from skyrim bsa and those 1k resized to 2k in sse bsa, but this have an impact on performance)

 

want to know why sse take 4 more seconds to get from carriage to showracemenu in his vid? search the topics of this section, someone gave a link to bethesda forum about sse being compiled unoptimised (like skyrim at its release, someone made a dll for that before a patch make it obselette)

 

well... i am not there to do that kind of research for you... or teach them how to compare skyrim to sse

 

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peculiaris

peculiaris

Posted
Posted

 

 

Ok its really hard to discuss hardware and software compatibility and performance with someone who doesn't fully understand the subject but I'll try anyway.

 

 

nice joke coming from someone that don't even bother looking for performance comparaison

 

want to know a reason he have less fps with sse? because he didn't load it with skyrim texture bsa (not much difference between 1k from skyrim bsa and those 1k resized to 2k in sse bsa, but this have an impact on performance)

 

want to know why sse take 4 more seconds to get from carriage to showracemenu in his vid? search the topics of this section, someone gave a link to bethesda forum about sse being compiled unoptimised (like skyrim at its release, someone made a dll for that before a patch make it obselette)

 

well... i am not there to do that kind of research for you... or teach them how to compare skyrim to sse

 

 

My brain... Just forget I said anything.

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yatol

yatol

Posted
Posted

I'll just leave this here

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRzLgRvqfDs

 

there's a pic from that thing in the link to the closed thread i gave...

161219044348786915.jpg

what do you see when you look at the compass? it don't match (not the same fov or not the same resolution or not the same something else)

there's a black background on fraps in sse, if it's the same pc for both, why did he mess with with that during that "test"?

it's also hard to not sse look much worse than skyrim, maybe skyrim have smaa and sse have fxaa, don't know

 

that "comparaison" is a joke

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zollom

zollom

Posted
Posted

 

I'll just leave this here

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRzLgRvqfDs

 

there's a pic from that thing in the link to the closed thread i gave...

161219044348786915.jpg

what do you see when you look at the compass? it don't match (not the same fov or not the same resolution or not the same something else)

there's a black background on fraps in sse, if it's the same pc for both, why did he mess with with that during that "test"?

it's also hard to not sse look much worse than skyrim, maybe skyrim have smaa and sse have fxaa, don't know

 

that "comparaison" is a joke

 

 

 

The compass mismatch is due to the HUD being completely reworked in SSE, even when the swf format is similar to skyrim's, SSE's swf has higher resolution assets (noticeable on the buttons sprites), also has some overal fixes (for example, skyrim's hudmenu had a horrible "$Level" string which was only noticeable if you played the game at 4k downsampling, SSE's hudmenu doesn't have this issue)

 

FOV are clearly the same, you can see that from the slide, since the images perfectly match.

 

The black background on Fraps' icon is how it behaves in dx11, in dx9 it has no background.

You can search it yourself, but here is another example, of another game, dx9 fraps vs dx11 fraps

http://www.overclock.net/t/1329630/official-far-cry-3-information-discussion-thread/1270#post_18861339 

 

Also, Skyrim has MSAA and SSE has TAA which is, in fact, worse looking but way better at performance. You can always force SMAA on both though. 

 

You should probably check your facts before calling something "a joke", you are making a joke of yourself.

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