Is it just me, or ENB on SSE looks worse than with Oldrim?

[Slaves of Tamriel]

I know it often leads to a heated debate when someone begins to compare SSE with Oldrim, so I'll try to be careful not to start a new one.

 

I had been away from Skyrim for awhile and recently decided to return, so I had to install it from scratch. Then I realized there was a new 64bit edition, so I thought I could give it a shot.

 

I was impressed by its stability, especially as I use a lot of 4k textures and run Skyrim on Windows 10, which has a well known limitation with DX9 that makes memory management with Oldrim even more problematic.

 

But I found that the new 64bit edition doesn't really look great, compared to what I was used to with my old setup. I tried various ENB settings, but all of them looked either too much saturated or washed out to my eyes for some reason.

 

So I installed Oldrim with RealVision with the same texture mods for comparison, and I could easily recreate the visual quality I liked before. Besides RealVision, I used Sharpshooter ENB before, and they both have such distinctive sharpness and deep contrast which I couldn't find in a few recommended ENB which support SSE.

 

I looked other people's screenshots of SSE and I noticed almost all of them have such washed out, or overly saturated feel with them, while none of them resemble those visual traits found in RealVision or Sharpshooter.

 

So, my question is, is it just me or are there any real differences between visual qualities between SSE and the old Skyrim, especially when it comes to ENB settings? Is there anyone who noticed similar limitations in ENB settings on SSE beside me?

 

I'm not trying to criticize SSE, because I'd be willing to migrate to SSE if not for such a problem, and when I can find replacements for most of the mods I use (which is well over 200 so, obviously it will take sometime though).

 

Now, my Oldrim is really pushing its limit so I can't even load any saved games which isn't made in interior space, so I always have to load some 'safe save' first before I can load my real saved game. So I'll only be happy to have a more stable version of Skyrim, if only it can look as good as the old one, and provides a similar range of mod selections.

[Lastbdsm]

Nah, If you haven't compared it side by side with same settings, same ENB used, same weather mods, etc. You can't really tell if one's look better.
In fact, it's the same game, just with better engine. So logically it should be same.

[grundor67]

Have you tried using Reshade in conjunction with your choice of ENB? I'm currently using Vogue ENB with Reshade installed and the results are amazing.

[Hæretic]

I haven't used the SSE much yet because of missing skse and other base mods, aside from some stability tests and installing graphic mods to compare both. I have the same feeling that the SSE doesn't look as good as oldrim even when both use the "same" enb. I am not a 100% sure but I remember reading somewhere that the SSE enb doesn't have the same features as enb for oldrim. Probably that's the reason there still are differences. Aside from the enb both should look the same apart from some new clutter spread around the world and some new shaders in the SSE.

[Slaves of Tamriel]

Have you tried using Reshade in conjunction with your choice of ENB? I'm currently using Vogue ENB with Reshade installed and the results are amazing.

 

Yes, but I haven't done any tweaks except for following their installation instruction.

[chevalierx]

search for e-enb or rudy enb and use gui (shift +f12) + reshade and custom as you like

[Slaves of Tamriel]

search for e-enb or rudy enb and use gui (shift +f12) + reshade and custom as you like

 

I think what defines good visual quality should depend on preferences of each person, so probably I can't say your screenshot look bad with any justice.

 

That being said, I think I can see certain traits I personally don't like in SSE, even though I think it's a decent shot. So I'll upload a few screenshots of mine for comparison.

 

(They are not particularly great shots - especially the outdoor ones which I don't find to be vivid enough - because I had to took some quick shots for this post now. I have better ones, but I'm a bit hesitant to share them here because they are already uploaded somewhere else with my different online identity which I don't want to expose.)

 

As to contrast, compare those shaded spots and such metallic highlight on the guard's helmet in my first two screenshots, which such ENBs like RealVision aptly emphasizes.

 

And you might notice that my screenshots have much more subdued color overall compared to yours which I find to be rather over saturated to my taste. Still, I don't find colors on those flowers or verdant of grass looks too dull either in mine.

 

And even though the overall saturation is rather high in your screenshot, you might notice that there's certain milky, or bleached feel in distant terrains. It's not that pronounced like in other screenshots of SSE which I've seen before, but it's still there.

 

But I feel like it's either in-your-face kind of color saturation or having a milky veil over your screen, when it comes to ENB settings with SSE.

 

Again, I'm not saying that my screenshots or settings are inherently better than those from SSE. All I'm saying is that I noticed such differences in most of SSE screenshots I've seen, and I personally prefer those like ones I attached.

 

I'm wondering if others also notice such differences, and if they do, what could be the possible cause for that, as I also understand that SSE is just a better version of Skyrim in itself.

[zzz72w3r]

Check enbseries.ini in SSE version of ENB against the one in Oldrim.  It's pretty barebone.  Even if SSE has many features that Oldrim lacked in its native engine we still need Boris to wield his magic exposing them for artists to tweak.  SSE ENB is just over a month old vs. 5 years of refinement in Oldrim.

[Wyrdness]

ENB is fine tbh especially when you combine it with ReShade.

 

 

[yatol]

 

As to contrast, compare those shaded spots and such metallic highlight on the guard's helmet in my first two screenshots, which such ENBs like RealVision aptly emphasizes

 

 

this have nothing to do with enb... it's the black & white texture that do that...

and there's something called enb menu to edit it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Andy14]

... snip

 

I looked other people's screenshots of SSE and I noticed almost all of them have such washed out, or overly saturated feel with them, while none of them resemble those visual traits found in RealVision or Sharpshooter.

 

... snip

 

SSE also uses Blur and DoF.

In the ini it can be set / deactivated.

[Slaves of Tamriel]

ENB is fine tbh especially when you combine it with ReShade.

 

But your screenshots are way too much saturated to my taste, and the problem with saturation is one of my main problem with those SSE ENBs.

 

Granted that we have some Oldrim ENBs which features such cinematic high saturation visuals like yours. And I won't argue that high saturation graphics necessarily look worse than the opposite.

 

But it's a fact that your screenshots are way more saturated than mine, and as I always see either that or milky washed out feel in SSE screenshots, I suspect there could be some significant factors that cause such differences.

 

 

this have nothing to do with enb... it's the black & white texture that do that...

and there's something called enb menu to edit it

 

I believe such things are mostly dependent upon specular strength, and what type of shader and what material settings you use. Actually, texture plays little difference here, if general knowledge of graphics rendering still holds true for Skyrim.

 

And I think your last screenshots still show such traits I wrote about in my previous posts. As to metallic highlight, if you look at the last screenshot of yours and compare it to those guard shots of mine, you might note that lighting is much brighter on your character, making ambient halo around her. Even her neck is glowing bright due to such high intensity of lighting, giving almost over exposed feeling.

 

Despite that, the level of specular highlight is more or less similar to my screenshot, which does not show that excessive lighting condition. Maybe it's because the waist part of your armor is not supposed to be metallic. I don't know.

 

But I don't think those shots are good examples to show there's no difference in highlight/contrast between SSE and Oldrim ENBs.

 

Probably it's just something hard to discuss about, if you don't share similar standards of what looks good or not with the person you are discussing such matters with.

 

SSE also uses Blur and DoF.

In the ini it can be set / deactivated.

 

Yes, but I doubt DoF or blur effect have much to do with color saturation or the bleached look.

 

[Aria]

I had this problem in Oldrim too, i spent countless hours upon hours trying to find an enb that wouldnt make my game look like a circus lighted park or a washed out beach.

Perhaps you should try imaginator (if it works on sse) and find an enb that works with it, so you can tone the contrast/saturation down.

[yatol]

 

I believe such things are mostly dependent upon specular strength, and what type of shader and what material settings you use. Actually, texture plays little difference here, if general knowledge of graphics rendering still holds true for Skyrim.

 

And I think your last screenshots still show such traits I wrote about in my previous posts.

 

you can put specular strength to 5000, if the nif don't have a black&white texture, that won't do anything

and i don't play skyrim back to vanilla edition...

[Guest _kuraiko]

If SSE's ENB presets look worse than Oldrim's ENBs is a matter of taste. In my opinion they do. Partially because the new SSE/FO4 ENBs do have less features right now. What kills it for me is that it does not support SSS. Hence your character's skin, leaves on trees, ivy, candles you name it which all made use of SSS, look just as plastery as the next rock.

[Slaves of Tamriel]

you can put specular strength to 5000, if the nif don't have a black&white texture, that won't do anything

and i don't play skyrim back to vanilla edition...

 

If by 'black & white' texture, you mean specular map, then you are right. But it's still specular settings, and I don't think point of the discussion if either SSE or Oldrim ignores specular map.

If SSE's ENB presets look worse than Oldrim's ENBs is a matter of taste. In my opinion they do. Partially because the new SSE/FO4 ENBs do have less features right now. What kills it for me is that it does not support SSS. Hence your character's skin, leaves on trees, ivy, candles you name it which all made use of SSS, look just as plastery as the next rock.

 

I didn't even know it lacks SSS support. I noticed that from one of the screenshots above but I thought it's just bad lighting or just missing settings from that particular ENB.

 

Anyway, zzz72w3r's and your post made me suspect that the perceived differences could be something real, but it's also something can be improved in future, it's mainly because ENB in SSE doesn't support all the features they did with Oldrim.

 

[Wyrdness]

 

ENB is fine tbh especially when you combine it with ReShade.

 

But your screenshots are way too much saturated to my taste, and the problem with saturation is one of my main problem with those SSE ENBs.

 

Granted that we have some Oldrim ENBs which features such cinematic high saturation visuals like yours. And I won't argue that high saturation graphics necessarily look worse than the opposite.

 

But it's a fact that your screenshots are way more saturated than mine, and as I always see either that or milky washed out feel in SSE screenshots, I suspect there could be some significant factors that cause such differences.

 

 

 

The colour saturation is a personal choice not an issue of the ENB, using ENB control and Reshade I customize it to what I'm going for. With Reshade you can get several different visual looks just by toggling effects it just comes down to what the player goes for, ENB is still in early stages for SSE as well.

[Slaves of Tamriel]

 

The colour saturation is a personal choice not an issue of the ENB, using ENB control and Reshade I customize it to what I'm going for. With Reshade you can get several different visual looks just by toggling effects it just comes down to what the player goes for, ENB is still in early stages for SSE as well.

 

 

True, but what I'm saying is that I cannot lower color saturation in SSE without making it look totally dull/washed out.

 

And your screenshots also look quite more saturated than mine which, of course is not a bad thing in itself. But if it's true that most of screenshots from SSE look much more saturated (or much more washed out) than those from Oldrim, I suppose we might suspect if there's some other cause - like certain lack of features in ENB - that makes SSE look worse in that mid range settings, especially when we consider that many people feel it's more vivid when they see something very colorful (highly saturated).

[shinji72]

Hi slaves. I totally agree with you. 

Of course is a matter of taste... but my Realvision Oldrim still looks better, as far as visuals are concerned, than today SE.
 

The point is of course the quality of the basic Boris ENB template. Is still limited and doesn't allow us to have a REALVISION SE, if you're, like me, a fan of that look.

He's spoiled us with Skyrim, in the years, allowing for the game to be still visually on par with current games.

Let's hope he could do the same magic with Newrim.

[Shiratama]

What can be gathered in Boris' various posts on the subject:

 

- SSAO will be a bitch and most likely will mess up transparent objects.

- Any modification of light sources will require access to process memory, so it's better to use the CK for lighting.

- Parallax is highly unlikely.

- Subsurface scattering is highly unlikely.

- Ditto with cloud shadows.

- SSE is faster because DX11 draw calls are also faster but the actual engine optimization is as bad as classic. Worse, Boris has to duplicate buffers, which basically means that SSE Enb is worse on performance than the old one.

 

There are probably more bits of info you can find by browsing his forums but basically if you want the best looking Skyrim ditch SSE and go back to classic.

 

(Note that I'm far from knowledgeable of the subject, I'm just repeating what he explained.)

[RUD3DUD3]

SSE Enb is worse on performance than the old one.

i disagree on this part im using rudy enb for both games with almost same visual mods SMIM + Noble skyrim HD + verdant grass + SFO and im getting smooth framerates on SSE than i had on oldrim. also games feels more smooth on SSE whereas on oldrim i get many stutters.

[Slaves of Tamriel]

 

SSE Enb is worse on performance than the old one.

i disagree on this part im using rudy enb for both games with almost same visual mods SMIM + Noble skyrim HD + verdant grass + SFO and im getting smooth framerates on SSE than i had on oldrim. also games feels more smooth on SSE whereas on oldrim i get many stutters.

 

I'm not an expert on these matters, but from my understanding, I think they could both be true.

 

Performance in a software is determined by where bottlenecks are it's entirely possible different type of bottlenecks happen with different settings.

 

For instance, SSE is much better memory wise and there's little doubt about it. And if you had stutters before, it usually suggests memory related issues. So, it's entirely possible - as I myself experienced when I briefly tried SSE - that SSE's much better on performance in such a scenario.

 

But also, it's possible that it could be worse in raw rendering speed, like from such a reason mentioned above.

 

I tend to agree with you on this one though, because I had, in general, much more troubles with memory than low fps with Oldrim. And I still cannot even utilize the whole video ram due to limitation with DX9 on Windows 10, which wouldn't happen on SSE.

 

I don't know how much overhead duplicating buffers might incur, but my uneducated guess is that it couldn't be much worse than such problems like only using half of VRam I actually have.

 

Anyway, I think I can now confirm my suspicion thanks to such informative posts like Shiratamas.

 

It seems I might have to wait much longer than I thought I should before I migrate to SSE, as lacking SSS support alone is sufficient for me to stick with Oldrim.

 

(I believe it could be quite an understandable position, because... well... it's LL so we all love to see much skins, don't we? )

[chevalierx]

 

SSE Enb is worse on performance than the old one.

i disagree on this part im using rudy enb for both games with almost same visual mods SMIM + Noble skyrim HD + verdant grass + SFO and im getting smooth framerates on SSE than i had on oldrim. also games feels more smooth on SSE whereas on oldrim i get many stutters.

 

 

the rudy of SE is half or 1/10 in visual do more performance and enb 308 is more powerfull then enb 310

just in case if Se id full modded and with the same enb like old the performance will be down ( the se add news effects by the engine that effect performance )

for me is real performance in SE why in riverwood and in city have down in fps ?

[RUD3DUD3]

 

 

SSE Enb is worse on performance than the old one.

i disagree on this part im using rudy enb for both games with almost same visual mods SMIM + Noble skyrim HD + verdant grass + SFO and im getting smooth framerates on SSE than i had on oldrim. also games feels more smooth on SSE whereas on oldrim i get many stutters.

 

 

the rudy of SE is half or 1/10 in visual do more performance and enb 308 is more powerfull then enb 310

just in case if Se id full modded and with the same enb like old the performance will be down ( the se add news effects by the engine that effect performance )

for me is real performance in SE why in riverwood and in city have down in fps ?

 

yes i know about the difference in ENB's for both games i tried to replicate same SSE settings for Rudy ENB in oldrim, results were same. i mean heck forget ENB even vanilla SSE gives more framerate than oldrim in whiterun,riften and markarth. whiterun gives me 45 fps with rudy enb for oldrim without rudy enb it gives me 52, markarth and riften gives the worst framerates ever in 30's. On SSE even with whats available now with rudy ENB i get constant 60 not a single drop in all of these cities.

[chevalierx]

 

what cpu you have ? or VGA ? to have 60 fps in city