Jump to content

Welcome to LoversLab
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Is it just me, or ENB on SSE looks worse than with Oldrim?

ENB SSE Oldrim Question

  • Please log in to reply
71 replies to this topic

#1
Slaves of Tamriel

Slaves of Tamriel

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 319 posts

I know it often leads to a heated debate when someone begins to compare SSE with Oldrim, so I'll try to be careful not to start a new one.

 

I had been away from Skyrim for awhile and recently decided to return, so I had to install it from scratch. Then I realized there was a new 64bit edition, so I thought I could give it a shot.

 

I was impressed by its stability, especially as I use a lot of 4k textures and run Skyrim on Windows 10, which has a well known limitation with DX9 that makes memory management with Oldrim even more problematic.

 

But I found that the new 64bit edition doesn't really look great, compared to what I was used to with my old setup. I tried various ENB settings, but all of them looked either too much saturated or washed out to my eyes for some reason.

 

So I installed Oldrim with RealVision with the same texture mods for comparison, and I could easily recreate the visual quality I liked before. Besides RealVision, I used Sharpshooter ENB before, and they both have such distinctive sharpness and deep contrast which I couldn't find in a few recommended ENB which support SSE.

 

I looked other people's screenshots of SSE and I noticed almost all of them have such washed out, or overly saturated feel with them, while none of them resemble those visual traits found in RealVision or Sharpshooter.

 

So, my question is, is it just me or are there any real differences between visual qualities between SSE and the old Skyrim, especially when it comes to ENB settings? Is there anyone who noticed similar limitations in ENB settings on SSE beside me?

 

I'm not trying to criticize SSE, because I'd be willing to migrate to SSE if not for such a problem, and when I can find replacements for most of the mods I use (which is well over 200 so, obviously it will take sometime though).

 

Now, my Oldrim is really pushing its limit so I can't even load any saved games which isn't made in interior space, so I always have to load some 'safe save' first before I can load my real saved game. So I'll only be happy to have a more stable version of Skyrim, if only it can look as good as the old one, and provides a similar range of mod selections.


  • 0

#2
lw71

lw71

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 42 posts

Nah, If you haven't compared it side by side with same settings, same ENB used, same weather mods, etc. You can't really tell if one's look better.
In fact, it's the same game, just with better engine. So logically it should be same.


  • 0

#3
grundor67

grundor67

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 20 posts

Have you tried using Reshade in conjunction with your choice of ENB? I'm currently using Vogue ENB with Reshade installed and the results are amazing.


  • 0

#4
Hæretic

Hæretic

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 361 posts

I haven't used the SSE much yet because of missing skse and other base mods, aside from some stability tests and installing graphic mods to compare both. I have the same feeling that the SSE doesn't look as good as oldrim even when both use the "same" enb. I am not a 100% sure but I remember reading somewhere that the SSE enb doesn't have the same features as enb for oldrim. Probably that's the reason there still are differences. Aside from the enb both should look the same apart from some new clutter spread around the world and some new shaders in the SSE.


  • 0

#5
Slaves of Tamriel

Slaves of Tamriel

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 319 posts

Have you tried using Reshade in conjunction with your choice of ENB? I'm currently using Vogue ENB with Reshade installed and the results are amazing.

 

Yes, but I haven't done any tweaks except for following their installation instruction.


  • 0

#6
chevalierx

chevalierx

    Void

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,030 posts

6226-1-1481869315.jpg

search for e-enb or rudy enb and use gui (shift +f12) + reshade and custom as you like


  • 1

#7
Slaves of Tamriel

Slaves of Tamriel

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 319 posts

search for e-enb or rudy enb and use gui (shift +f12) + reshade and custom as you like

 

I think what defines good visual quality should depend on preferences of each person, so probably I can't say your screenshot look bad with any justice.

 

That being said, I think I can see certain traits I personally don't like in SSE, even though I think it's a decent shot. So I'll upload a few screenshots of mine for comparison.

 

(They are not particularly great shots - especially the outdoor ones which I don't find to be vivid enough - because I had to took some quick shots for this post now. I have better ones, but I'm a bit hesitant to share them here because they are already uploaded somewhere else with my different online identity which I don't want to expose.)

 

As to contrast, compare those shaded spots and such metallic highlight on the guard's helmet in my first two screenshots, which such ENBs like RealVision aptly emphasizes.

 

And you might notice that my screenshots have much more subdued color overall compared to yours which I find to be rather over saturated to my taste. Still, I don't find colors on those flowers or verdant of grass looks too dull either in mine.

 

And even though the overall saturation is rather high in your screenshot, you might notice that there's certain milky, or bleached feel in distant terrains. It's not that pronounced like in other screenshots of SSE which I've seen before, but it's still there.

 

But I feel like it's either in-your-face kind of color saturation or having a milky veil over your screen, when it comes to ENB settings with SSE.

 

Again, I'm not saying that my screenshots or settings are inherently better than those from SSE. All I'm saying is that I noticed such differences in most of SSE screenshots I've seen, and I personally prefer those like ones I attached.

 

I'm wondering if others also notice such differences, and if they do, what could be the possible cause for that, as I also understand that SSE is just a better version of Skyrim in itself.

Attached Files


  • 0

#8
zzz72w3r

zzz72w3r

    Mega Poster

  • Supporter
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,160 posts

Check enbseries.ini in SSE version of ENB against the one in Oldrim.  It's pretty barebone.  Even if SSE has many features that Oldrim lacked in its native engine we still need Boris to wield his magic exposing them for artists to tweak.  SSE ENB is just over a month old vs. 5 years of refinement in Oldrim.


  • 0

#9
Wyrdness

Wyrdness

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts

ENB is fine tbh especially when you combine it with ReShade.

 

 

Attached Files


  • 0

#10
yatol

yatol

    Mega Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,807 posts

 

As to contrast, compare those shaded spots and such metallic highlight on the guard's helmet in my first two screenshots, which such ENBs like RealVision aptly emphasizes

 

 

this have nothing to do with enb... it's the black & white texture that do that...
and there's something called enb menu to edit it

Spoiler

  • 0

#11
Andy14

Andy14

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 519 posts

... snip

 

I looked other people's screenshots of SSE and I noticed almost all of them have such washed out, or overly saturated feel with them, while none of them resemble those visual traits found in RealVision or Sharpshooter.

 

... snip

 

SSE also uses Blur and DoF.
In the ini it can be set / deactivated.

  • 0

#12
Slaves of Tamriel

Slaves of Tamriel

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 319 posts

ENB is fine tbh especially when you combine it with ReShade.

 

But your screenshots are way too much saturated to my taste, and the problem with saturation is one of my main problem with those SSE ENBs.

 

Granted that we have some Oldrim ENBs which features such cinematic high saturation visuals like yours. And I won't argue that high saturation graphics necessarily look worse than the opposite.

 

But it's a fact that your screenshots are way more saturated than mine, and as I always see either that or milky washed out feel in SSE screenshots, I suspect there could be some significant factors that cause such differences.

 

 

this have nothing to do with enb... it's the black & white texture that do that...
and there's something called enb menu to edit it

 

I believe such things are mostly dependent upon specular strength, and what type of shader and what material settings you use. Actually, texture plays little difference here, if general knowledge of graphics rendering still holds true for Skyrim.

 

And I think your last screenshots still show such traits I wrote about in my previous posts. As to metallic highlight, if you look at the last screenshot of yours and compare it to those guard shots of mine, you might note that lighting is much brighter on your character, making ambient halo around her. Even her neck is glowing bright due to such high intensity of lighting, giving almost over exposed feeling.

 

Despite that, the level of specular highlight is more or less similar to my screenshot, which does not show that excessive lighting condition. Maybe it's because the waist part of your armor is not supposed to be metallic. I don't know.

 

But I don't think those shots are good examples to show there's no difference in highlight/contrast between SSE and Oldrim ENBs.

 

Probably it's just something hard to discuss about, if you don't share similar standards of what looks good or not with the person you are discussing such matters with.

 


SSE also uses Blur and DoF.
In the ini it can be set / deactivated.

 

Yes, but I doubt DoF or blur effect have much to do with color saturation or the bleached look.
 


  • 0

#13
Aria

Aria

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 283 posts

I had this problem in Oldrim too, i spent countless hours upon hours trying to find an enb that wouldnt make my game look like a circus lighted park or a washed out beach.

Perhaps you should try imaginator (if it works on sse) and find an enb that works with it, so you can tone the contrast/saturation down.


  • 0

#14
yatol

yatol

    Mega Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,807 posts

 

I believe such things are mostly dependent upon specular strength, and what type of shader and what material settings you use. Actually, texture plays little difference here, if general knowledge of graphics rendering still holds true for Skyrim.

 

And I think your last screenshots still show such traits I wrote about in my previous posts.

 

you can put specular strength to 5000, if the nif don't have a black&white texture, that won't do anything

and i don't play skyrim back to vanilla edition...


  • 0

#15
_kuraiko

_kuraiko

    Essence of Magic

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 169 posts

If SSE's ENB presets look worse than Oldrim's ENBs is a matter of taste. In my opinion they do. Partially because the new SSE/FO4 ENBs do have less features right now. What kills it for me is that it does not support SSS. Hence your character's skin, leaves on trees, ivy, candles you name it which all made use of SSS, look just as plastery as the next rock.


  • 0

#16
Slaves of Tamriel

Slaves of Tamriel

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 319 posts

you can put specular strength to 5000, if the nif don't have a black&white texture, that won't do anything

and i don't play skyrim back to vanilla edition...

 

If by 'black & white' texture, you mean specular map, then you are right. But it's still specular settings, and I don't think point of the discussion if either SSE or Oldrim ignores specular map.


If SSE's ENB presets look worse than Oldrim's ENBs is a matter of taste. In my opinion they do. Partially because the new SSE/FO4 ENBs do have less features right now. What kills it for me is that it does not support SSS. Hence your character's skin, leaves on trees, ivy, candles you name it which all made use of SSS, look just as plastery as the next rock.

 

I didn't even know it lacks SSS support. I noticed that from one of the screenshots above but I thought it's just bad lighting or just missing settings from that particular ENB.

 

Anyway, zzz72w3r's and your post made me suspect that the perceived differences could be something real, but it's also something can be improved in future, it's mainly because ENB in SSE doesn't support all the features they did with Oldrim.
 


  • 0

#17
Wyrdness

Wyrdness

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 40 posts

 

ENB is fine tbh especially when you combine it with ReShade.

 

But your screenshots are way too much saturated to my taste, and the problem with saturation is one of my main problem with those SSE ENBs.

 

Granted that we have some Oldrim ENBs which features such cinematic high saturation visuals like yours. And I won't argue that high saturation graphics necessarily look worse than the opposite.

 

But it's a fact that your screenshots are way more saturated than mine, and as I always see either that or milky washed out feel in SSE screenshots, I suspect there could be some significant factors that cause such differences.

 

 

 

The colour saturation is a personal choice not an issue of the ENB, using ENB control and Reshade I customize it to what I'm going for. With Reshade you can get several different visual looks just by toggling effects it just comes down to what the player goes for, ENB is still in early stages for SSE as well.

Attached Files


  • 0

#18
Slaves of Tamriel

Slaves of Tamriel

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 319 posts

 

The colour saturation is a personal choice not an issue of the ENB, using ENB control and Reshade I customize it to what I'm going for. With Reshade you can get several different visual looks just by toggling effects it just comes down to what the player goes for, ENB is still in early stages for SSE as well.

 

 

True, but what I'm saying is that I cannot lower color saturation in SSE without making it look totally dull/washed out.

 

And your screenshots also look quite more saturated than mine which, of course is not a bad thing in itself. But if it's true that most of screenshots from SSE look much more saturated (or much more washed out) than those from Oldrim, I suppose we might suspect if there's some other cause - like certain lack of features in ENB - that makes SSE look worse in that mid range settings, especially when we consider that many people feel it's more vivid when they see something very colorful (highly saturated).


  • 0

#19
shinji72

shinji72

    Mega Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,438 posts

Hi slaves. I totally agree with you. 

Of course is a matter of taste... but my Realvision Oldrim still looks better, as far as visuals are concerned, than today SE.
 

The point is of course the quality of the basic Boris ENB template. Is still limited and doesn't allow us to have a REALVISION SE, if you're, like me, a fan of that look.

He's spoiled us with Skyrim, in the years, allowing for the game to be still visually on par with current games.

Let's hope he could do the same magic with Newrim.


  • 0

#20
Shiratama

Shiratama

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 68 posts

What can be gathered in Boris' various posts on the subject:

 

- SSAO will be a bitch and most likely will mess up transparent objects.

- Any modification of light sources will require access to process memory, so it's better to use the CK for lighting.

- Parallax is highly unlikely.

- Subsurface scattering is highly unlikely.

- Ditto with cloud shadows.

- SSE is faster because DX11 draw calls are also faster but the actual engine optimization is as bad as classic. Worse, Boris has to duplicate buffers, which basically means that SSE Enb is worse on performance than the old one.

 

There are probably more bits of info you can find by browsing his forums but basically if you want the best looking Skyrim ditch SSE and go back to classic.

 

(Note that I'm far from knowledgeable of the subject, I'm just repeating what he explained.)


  • 0



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: ENB, SSE, Oldrim, Question