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SSE Criticism Thread Reloaded

rules apply go figure

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#41
yatol

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and have been running at a smooth 60fps with quite a bit of mods and if i use the same mods on my original skyrim

 

Only thing dissapointing is the awesome mods that are son regular skyrim and SSE doesnt have.

 

does that mean you were playing skyrim without those awesome mods sse doesn't have?

what make you think you won't crash if those mods are ported to sse?

 

ps : i don't crash in skyrim (only crash when i try new mods)
 


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#42
Kn1ght95

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and have been running at a smooth 60fps with quite a bit of mods and if i use the same mods on my original skyrim

 

Only thing dissapointing is the awesome mods that are son regular skyrim and SSE doesnt have.

 

does that mean you were playing skyrim without those awesome mods sse doesn't have?

what make you think you won't crash if those mods are ported to sse?

 

ps : i don't crash in skyrim (only crash when i try new mods)
 

 

 

Oh, sorry but I've forgot to mention that both my skyrims where at one point running the same mods and had similar issues being SE stable and regular crashing frequently. Right now though, it a lot worse then before since, like you said, It's using the awesome mods but again  I wont know if SE will have the same issue. But using the first test as a reference, SE seems to have better memory handling application then regular which I'm assuming is cause of it being 64bit


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#43
Bromum

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So far, I hate how we have to install Bethesda's client in order to use the new CK.


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#44
skubblebubble

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So far, I hate how we have to install Bethesda's client in order to use the new CK.

 

You just need the client to get the CK, you don't have to run the CK from the client.

You can just run the CK direct.

 

Had to do the for a while with FO4 due to pathing issues.

 

Try it. It works.


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#45
Ernest Lemmingway

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their paid mod scheme failed because they brought it on PC on a platform where it was free always, now they have learned its impossible to go that route so they brought those brain washed kids to the modding scene where modding is uncharted territory for them and this is something they will gladly throw their money on. those brain washed kids buys anything these days look at destiny's micro transaction success and GTA Online micro transactions basically success of micro transactions on those consoles, bethesda knows this thats why they brought console modding into the scene. they also made it clear before that they will bring paid mods again in better organised way hence the entry of bethesda.net. they won't be bringing paid mods now on fallout 4 and SSE they want to build more hype on those consoles first but next game surely paid mods are on their cards.

 

 

That's exactly what I thought when I first heard about console mods. They failed with PC players but console players, like you said, have never had the option. It's also ironic in that Bethesda is relying on PC players to make mods but at the same time they're alienating us with games designed to function on consoles as well as trying to regulate mods and even make money off of them. Looking at the current state of console mods tells me that Bethesda still doesn't get it. Plus console mods can't actually change the game's functionality or add new functions. Not many console players seem to comprehend that yet since so many still bitch about "when is Script Extender for FO4/SSE coming out?" Consoles can't use Script Extender so they're SOL and they don't even seem to realize it.  :P


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#46
Trykz

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Its all about properly optimizing your game, and setting everything correctly.

 

This.

 

More an observation than criticism, but:

 

Every hair mod you can think of, tons of SL mods and their dependencies, multiple worldspace mods, over 20 custom race mods, countless armor packs, ENB, and I rarely ever crash (less than once per 5-6 sessions of all day gameplay on average). Nothing has changed in my load order in over a year (except the race mods I'm currently working on or have already built).

 

I have SSE and CK64 on a dedicated SSD (Only because it was free for me). But after looking at what I have to go through to port all of my race mods (and more importantly, why), I'm not so sure why I should even bother with SSE. I see what amounts to a miniscule percentage of the hype original Skyrim received 5 years ago, and almost all of the same technical issues it suffered when it launched. Not to mention all the unnecessary changes Bethesda made that will now require me to pretty much rebuild my mods from the ground up. My Skyrim looks equally nice as SSE, and runs nearly as smooth as I currently have it set up. So I'm not seeing credible reason to switch and give up what I currently have working near flawlessly.

 

I think another poster put it best in another thread: Skyrim is old hat now for many gamers. Those who bought and played it 5 years ago have moved on to other games, or are patiently awaiting the next TES installment. Many modders have moved on in the last couple of years as well. Essentially, Skyrim as a game is now what Oblivion was 5 years ago. Old hat. Still fun to wear from time to time, but not every day.

 

Trykz


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#47
BringtheNoise

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Pro's 64 bit engine (vs 32bit), havok 2015 (vs havok 2010), not to hard to convert nif's, animations, and textures from 32bit skyrim to 64bit skyrim.

 

Con's - released incorrectly.

They should have release SSE in 2015 and used the extra year to make FO4 better (since SSE was done first to test the 64bit engine).

They didn't fix things that were borked in oldrim (should not need an unofficial skyrim patch with the 64bit version cause that shit should have been fixed when they converted over to the new engine).

It was a console user cash grab (they even stated so at the expo when they first launched and stated as much back when XB1 and PS4 were being developed....).  Todd stated many years back that they wanted to bring Skyrim (and possibly Oblivion) over to the new 64bit consoles and have them better use the hardware. In other words they don't want to make the old xb360/ps3 games compatible with the console instead they want to make a new exe/dll to try to fully optimize for the new console. 

The simple option would have been to take the 32bit PC (x86-32) version and convert the exe and dll's to 64bit (as both XB1 and PS4 are x86-64 based consoles) -vs- reworking the powerpc based versions made for the xb360 and ps3. Irony this is exactly what Beth did.... SSE was the test game to see if the new 64bit engine worked well enough to make a new game on (the new game by the way was Fallout 4).

 

I guess one other Pro is that when converting over to the 64bit engine they did not try to limit your response choices down to 4 or to give the player a voice (ie what they put to much effort into for FO4, which took time and effort away from making actual quest's and other things that could have made FO4 much better).

 

 

I do like the new engine, I hate they didn't fix the broken shit the modding community did fix (and has fixed again). I know it was a cash grab for 64bit console users.... I don't really give a shit cause I bought the legendary edition back in Summer of 2014 on steam for like $12 US and got the 64bit version for free in Oct of 2016 (so I can't complain about the price).


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#48
Ernest Lemmingway

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<snipped for space>

 

Everything mentioned I have to agree with. The fact that we need unofficial patches is rather sad and very telling of how little work BGS is willing to put into finalizing and optimizing their end products. I've said it before: Bethesda as a company seems to suffer from ADD; they're great at starting things but lousy at finishing them. They could make an excellent TES VI game using the engine as it exists now if they just took the time to get it to work at a higher capacity and debugged it fully (as fully as any software can be debugged). I have similar gripes with Apple Computers and their constant need to be on the very cutting edge; it's immature--the technology, that is--and will never function as well as something that has had time to be refined and fully figured out.


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#49
badboy64

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I will wait until the new Skyrim comes to start playing it again. I uninstalled both versions and deleted all mods pertaining to both of them.


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#50
Dagren

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I have heard rumours that SE does not support uncompressed textures anymore. There is some kind of problem with alpha channels.

 

Don't have that game installed so if anyone can check and confirm.


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#51
garg

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Pro's 64 bit engine (vs 32bit), havok 2015 (vs havok 2010), not to hard to convert nif's, animations, and textures from 32bit skyrim to 64bit skyrim.

 

Con's - released incorrectly.

They should have release SSE in 2015 and used the extra year to make FO4 better (since SSE was done first to test the 64bit engine).

They didn't fix things that were borked in oldrim (should not need an unofficial skyrim patch with the 64bit version cause that shit should have been fixed when they converted over to the new engine).

It was a console user cash grab (they even stated so at the expo when they first launched and stated as much back when XB1 and PS4 were being developed....).  Todd stated many years back that they wanted to bring Skyrim (and possibly Oblivion) over to the new 64bit consoles and have them better use the hardware. In other words they don't want to make the old xb360/ps3 games compatible with the console instead they want to make a new exe/dll to try to fully optimize for the new console.

The simple option would have been to take the 32bit PC (x86-32) version and convert the exe and dll's to 64bit (as both XB1 and PS4 are x86-64 based consoles) -vs- reworking the powerpc based versions made for the xb360 and ps3. Irony this is exactly what Beth did.... SSE was the test game to see if the new 64bit engine worked well enough to make a new game on (the new game by the way was Fallout 4).

 

I guess one other Pro is that when converting over to the 64bit engine they did not try to limit your response choices down to 4 or to give the player a voice (ie what they put to much effort into for FO4, which took time and effort away from making actual quest's and other things that could have made FO4 much better).

 

 

I do like the new engine, I hate they didn't fix the broken shit the modding community did fix (and has fixed again). I know it was a cash grab for 64bit console users.... I don't really give a shit cause I bought the legendary edition back in Summer of 2014 on steam for like $12 US and got the 64bit version for free in Oct of 2016 (so I can't complain about the price).

First off not sure what you mean by make Fallout 4 better there has to be an end to how much a company is willing to put into a game!

Secondly Skyrim SE engine and Fallout 4 engine are not the same - not even close!

Lastly, one of the things that makes modern games great is a player who actually knows how to speak!


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#52
BringtheNoise

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-snip-

First off not sure what you mean by make Fallout 4 better there has to be an end to how much a company is willing to put into a game!

Secondly Skyrim SE engine and Fallout 4 engine are not the same - not even close!

Lastly, one of the things that makes modern games great is a player who actually knows how to speak!

 

 

 

First: larger map, more things to do then just go clean up ghouls, mutants, or raiders. Some decent side quests (where there is an actual quest) would have been nice... less money and time spent on 2 voice actors for the character and more for npc's (in said actual quests).

Hell even the dlc's were lacking.... oh want to clean up and island (that just gives you what 2 more settlements to take care of and a couple more types of monsters), and become a bandit leader (yawn).

So yeah, make the game better with more non repeatable quests that go twards making the game world better or worse, tie in better with the older games.... yada yada yada (they could have done a lot in an extra year).

 

Second: Beth games have been based on the Gamebro Engine since what Morrowind.

Why do you think it is so easy to convert tools over between the games.

xEdit  - made to read the esm/esp scripts and everything else... tools made from this are

tes4edit (oblivion), tes5edit (skyrim), f4edit (FO4), and SSEedit (Skyrim 64) just to name a few (cause I can't remember the name of the fo3, fnv, and other versions).

Nif Mesh format has just gone thru upgrades since way back when, things have been added and removed over time.... but at the core it is still the same nif file type.

Textures have changed over the years at to what version of the game engine was used....

Oh and yeah there are is still the spell tree in the esm/esp's of fallout 4... and enchantments (what do you thing the legendary items in fo4 are they are enchantments that are attached to a regular item)... but hay what ever floats you boat.... think of it as a completely different engine with a completely different toolset (but you would be wrong as they are based off of the same engine at there core).

 

Third: Actually falls back to the first.... make the game better. You don't need the Player character to talk to make a good game.

Fallout 3: so so side quests, you actually do build your character the way you want them... you don't speak and you don't have a pre-made backstory.

Fallout New Vegas: go side quests, interesting story, you actually have no clue who your character was so you can go about making that character into what ever you (as the player) want.... you don't talk.

Skyrim: shows up on a cart being hauled in with some people that you may or may not agree with... you get to choose what you want to do.... decent side quests (ass loads of side quests) very few are repetitive in the way FO4's are, the only thing that was missing was the ability to side with the dragons and destory tamriel.... again you don't speak (minus shouts).

On the other hand Fallout 4: premade backstory, stuck trying to find a kid, talk but the dialog is all...blah.... story is blah.... side quests are go help this group defend against (raider, mutant, ghoul), go save someone from (raider, mutant, or ghoul) location, or help build up settlement so they can stand a better chance again a raider, mutant, or ghoul assault.... If you don't mind the mindless and endless killing it's okay.... if you want a story well that is at most 10 to 20 hours of gameplay from start to finish..... character is preset with background and blah...

Oblivion: never played it so I don't know.
 


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#53
Z0mBieP00Nani

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SSE was a money grab and a distraction, plain and simple. It didn't do anything new or unique to Skyrim, nothing that mods haven't already done or could do (and even better in some cases), except for changing the game to 64 bits and helping with stability. There really is no reason to get SSE other than the added stability.


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#54
garg

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-snip-

 

Don't wish to get into a heated discussion about this - currently Fallout 4 is more popular on Steam then both versions of Skyrim and once if ever we get a complete F4SE then it's player base will grow tremendously! Our own personal evaluations mean little to the majority of players out there, Bethesda were one of very few companies not voicing the main character and that has now changed!


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#55
yatol

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Don't wish to get into a heated discussion about this - currently Fallout 4 is more popular on Steam then both versions of Skyrim and once if ever we get a complete F4SE then it's player base will grow tremendously! Our own personal evaluations mean little to the majority of players out there, Bethesda were one of very few companies not voicing the main character and that has now changed!

 

 

got curious and....

170119082519291681.jpg

 

170119082518779683.jpg

more players than skyrim, but much bigger fall

look like the majority of players didn't like enought the game to stay, and if they don't stay, they won't do stuff for it

there's someone doing whatever you are waiting for? if he can do it

 

this is sse blabla, what about sse?

170119083502548454.jpg

already lower than skyrim? don't look like the few mods ported were enought to keep the players

170119082205187981.jpg

as for who will do the stuff they are waiting for... euh...

 

 


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#56
Gameplayer

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Nice find Yatol.

 

Also right, but I'll leave that to IDK who-ever wants that debate or what evers.


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#57
w33beast1e

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SSE was a money grab and a distraction, plain and simple. It didn't do anything new or unique to Skyrim, nothing that mods haven't already done or could do (and even better in some cases), except for changing the game to 64 bits and helping with stability. There really is no reason to get SSE other than the added stability.

1.  " SSE was a money grab....."

 

See now this gets repeated a lot and it makes no sense to me. If you don't already own Skyrim you have to pay for it. Often Legendary has sold for a few quid.  If you have it on PC already, you get SSE for free.

 

As far as those folks who still hadn't got on the Skyrim express, well It didn't take a 3 digit IQ to see how that deal could be exploited, seeing as the publisher had screamed it from the rooftops. A glass half-full sort of person would consider this something of a sweet deal. Inveterate conspiracists on the other hand will see...

 

2. "....a distraction"

 

I must be really out of the loop because I have no idea what this might mean. If folks who have never played Skyrim are becoming distracted away from whatever else they were into, well that's good, especially if it reinvigorates the mod scene just as it's on the wane.  Sure, console players will fall away just like they always have. Fuck 'em, they're the reason Skyrim looked and behaved like a living fossil even in 2011.

 

3. "It didn't do anything new or unique to Skyrim.........there really is no reason to get SSE other than the added stability........."

 

For those of us who have bothered to put SSE through it's modded paces, the move to 64bit  is starting to look like quite the big deal. SSE also has a few quiet little tricks it does, things we used to have to mod. If you play it for any length you'll start noticing them.

 

There's those trivially rapid load transitions and previously notoriously tricky mods like Open Cities working as smooth as silk,  I haven't had a single CTD in 5 days of doing all the worst things one can do to a save, and running a lot of mods that I used to have to avoid like the plague.  You can brush this off if you like I suppose, but to what end? 

 

4. "....nothing that mods haven't already done or could do"

 

There's a degree of long-termism involved with modding TES games. Sure there are some nice little effects going on, like water flow, baked in Dynavision, native AO, precipitation occlusion, pretty decent god rays, and a lot less obvious pop-in.  While most of that gives console gamers a warm feeling, it should also give us reasons to be cheerful, because smart mod authors will use native features to better advantage, just as they always have. And they won't always have to use post-processing or external assets to give them to us. That's a good thing. 


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#58
Z0mBieP00Nani

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SSE was a money grab and a distraction, plain and simple. It didn't do anything new or unique to Skyrim, nothing that mods haven't already done or could do (and even better in some cases), except for changing the game to 64 bits and helping with stability. There really is no reason to get SSE other than the added stability.

1.  " SSE was a money grab....."

 

See now this gets repeated a lot and it makes no sense to me. If you don't already own Skyrim you have to pay for it. Often Legendary has sold for a few quid.  If you have it on PC already, you get SSE for free.

 

As far as those folks who still hadn't got on the Skyrim express, well It didn't take a 3 digit IQ to see how that deal could be exploited, seeing as the publisher had screamed it from the rooftops. A glass half-full sort of person would consider this something of a sweet deal. Inveterate conspiracists on the other hand will see...

 

2. "....a distraction"

 

I must be really out of the loop because I have no idea what this might mean. If folks who have never played Skyrim are becoming distracted away from whatever else they were into, well that's good, especially if it reinvigorates the mod scene just as it's on the wane.  Sure, console players will fall away just like they always have. Fuck 'em, they're the reason Skyrim looked and behaved like a living fossil even in 2011.

 

3. "It didn't do anything new or unique to Skyrim.........there really is no reason to get SSE other than the added stability........."

 

For those of us who have bothered to put SSE through it's modded paces, the move to 64bit  is starting to look like quite the big deal. SSE also has a few quiet little tricks it does, things we used to have to mod. If you play it for any length you'll start noticing them.

 

There's those trivially rapid load transitions and previously notoriously tricky mods like Open Cities working as smooth as silk,  I haven't had a single CTD in 5 days of doing all the worst things one can do to a save, and running a lot of mods that I used to have to avoid like the plague.  You can brush this off if you like I suppose, but to what end? 

 

4. "....nothing that mods haven't already done or could do"

 

There's a degree of long-termism involved with modding TES games. Sure there are some nice little effects going on, like water flow, baked in Dynavision, native AO, precipitation occlusion, pretty decent god rays, and a lot less obvious pop-in.  While most of that gives console gamers a warm feeling, it should also give us reasons to be cheerful, because smart mod authors will use native features to better advantage, just as they always have. And they won't always have to use post-processing or external assets to give them to us. That's a good thing. 

 

 

As far as point 3 goes, I meant that more in the context of adding new or cut content (unless it does add in some of the cut content). It's basically the same game as before, just more stable.
 

With the other stuff I can see your point. I actually could download and play the game for free, as I owned Skyrim and all of the DLCs before the release of SSE, I just haven't messed with it yet because I'm waiting for SKSE to come out. I've gotten so used to playing Skyrim with mods that it would feel kind of odd to be missing some of the mods that I'm so used to.


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#59
yatol

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There's those trivially rapid load transitions and previously notoriously tricky mods like Open Cities working as smooth as silk,  I haven't had a single CTD in 5 days of doing all the worst things one can do to a save, and running a lot of mods that I used to have to avoid like the plague.  You can brush this off if you like I suppose, but to what end?

 

the worst things? really?

here's an heartfire esm without the house stuff

convert it to sse and try loading your save with it

170119101739866230.jpg

deleting the byohouse stuff from the save, that break stuff that break... civil war stuff and mq something stuff, so i won't delete it

and i can't load the save with that esm without deleting that

so i have to do with heartfire crap until i create a profile to try another overhaul or something

Spoiler

 

it take 2 minutes to type cw in savegamecleaner to delete some civil war stuff, if you think your save can take that

Attached Files


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#60
w33beast1e

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As far as point 3 goes, I meant that more in the context of adding new or cut content (unless it does add in some of the cut content). It's basically the same game as before, just more stable.
 

With the other stuff I can see your point. I actually could download and play the game for free, as I owned Skyrim and all of the DLCs before the release of SSE, I just haven't messed with it yet because I'm waiting for SKSE to come out. I've gotten so used to playing Skyrim with mods that it would feel kind of odd to be missing some of the mods that I'm so used to.

 

Oh yeah, I totally get why folks would want to wait. The only reason I didn't feel that way myself was that I'd already abandoned Skyrim after 5 years of running that whole gauntlet. 

 

It's definitely valid to feel we should get more than just a move to 64bit, some minor cosmetics and some harsh audio compression. But then I remind myself that you and I got this totally for free and I'm okay with it.

 

But for me the stability angle is the most interesting thing about it. Which is why i'm keen for folks here to try it for themselves. So we can all properly discuss it 


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