Adjusting Belly stretching with Just for Fun? Possible?

[Molokkx]

Hey guys.

 

This is about Belly bulging / stretching / distortion during penetration in SexLabs (it might also apply for 0Sex but I wouldn't know since I'm not using that mod as of now). Be it during vaginal or anal penetration, when you have HDT Belly enabled on the NPC mesh (or on your character's mesh of course) then you'll have a certain amount of Belly "bulging" (or 'stretching') of the mesh, at the Belly level, as the Schlong thrusts in and out and moves inside depending on the NPC and/or main character's positions.

 

Well, what I've been looking for - literally for months now - is it find a way... * ANY * way, a known or unknown method to simply "increase" the amount of said bulging we have. However, with all the HDT Presets I've tried so far there seems to be very little differences in the minimum and/or maximum Belly stretching proportions / tresholds / magnitude. The result is that the Belly will simply stop stretching past a certain point, after which the Schlong will simply clip through the mesh and be visible outside the Belly. That's because the maximum amount of stretching cannot "espouse" the entire length and/or girth (but mostly length) of the Schlong (well obviously there's going to be limits for that).

 

So, from what I've tried so far, it seems to me that I've basically been trying to do something that is apparently impossible to do anyway to start with. And I'm about to simply accept the fact that it cannot be done on a technical level. However, I won't abandon the idea just now because I still have unanswered questions that I'd like to see answered if any of you guys / gals / modders / bunny plushies can enlighten me. Now, I'm making this thread for myself but also perhaps others out there whom happen to wonder the same things as me, or for the people who have also tried to do it on their own without the actual know-how to really understand what they're actually trying to do (like me, basically).

 

Main Subject #1: Just For Fun

 

I've discovered the " Just For Fun " mod only recently. It allows us to modify values found in the XML files. However, it's way more complex than I thought it would be. It was only by comparing XMLs from different Presets that I started to understand what * some * of the values were actually doing in the game. In short, which values resulting in what physical effect(s).

 

At first glance, it's rather simple when you load an XML file... say... the classic hdtPhysicsExtensionsDefaultBBP for example. In that file, depending on which Preset it comes from, you'd have two main categories: 1) RigdiBodies and 2) Constraints.

 

Now, within the RigdiBodies category, you'd have things like " NPC L Breast " and " NPC R Butt ". But we also have two entries that relate to the Belly, namely 1) NPC Belly and 2) HDT Belly.

 

So, going into RigdiBodies > NPC Belly, we then see what's in... well what's in the Belly quite literally:

 

Generic Properties, Advanced Properties, Mass Properties and Collisions are the categories there for the NPC Belly entry. Now, from the * very limited * amount of testing I've actually tried, what I do know is that modifying some values inside the Mass and Collisions categories * DO * have some - albeit minimal - impact on how much the Belly will stretch during penetration (it also changes how the "Belly waving" effect behave on a specific axis). However, some of the values seem to be in ' synergy ' or dependent on others which the mod itself doesn't describe in details, so people like me going in there blindly have to test things manually with a process of elimination (so, if I modify 'z' value but that value also depends on what 'y' and 'x' are set to but I don't know about it then I'm in for some troubles in the game). But, changing some values can also simply just completely break the Belly collisions entirely, and it just won't work at all in the game anymore.

 

Now, I mentioned another main category above, the Constraints. When going in that one... things get even more complicated especially if you browse in some of the sub menus. So, taking the " Constraints > hkpGenericConstraintData > NPC Belly; HDT Belly; " entry, we then see the " Normal " tab, under which we have all the Constraint settings. There, we have " Joints ", " Linear Limits " and " Angular Limits ". Then we also have sub menus for X, Y and Z coordinates, some in the positives, some in the negatives, not to mention the actual Linear and Angular Limits values themselves of course.

 

So...

 

@ ANYONE with enough knowledge about ANY of this, including the mod itself and HDT Belly physics (game-wise and mesh-/bones-wise)...

 

Can you please give me and everyone else in my boat FINAL and definitive answers? Answers to the following questions:

 

1) Purely on a technical level, is it actually POSSIBLE to achieve what I'm trying to do WITH the help of Just For Fun?

 

2) If Just For Fun is actually used to change how much Breasts and Butt will bounce, then why would it NOT also be able to change how much (or how little) the Belly will bulge during penetration?

 

3) If Just For Fun is * in fact * capable of changing how the Belly "behaves" then WHICH values do I want to change and how much do I need to change them? Does anyone know?!

 

Main Subject #2: Pregnancy mods / Fill Her Up mod / BodySlide UUNP Belly Sliders

 

Alright, now, regardless of the Just For Fun mod itself... I still need to understand why and how some of the following mods do what they can do to the Belly.

 

1) Pregnancy Mods.

 

- All of the pregnancy mods I've seen actually DO stretch the Belly pretty damn far. How is THAT effect accomplished? By just stretching the mesh itself? Do they use scripts to allow the Belly to stretch past a "normal limit"?

 

2) Fill Her Up.

 

- This one is probably the most fascinating in terms of HOW it technically works. I've been using this mod and seen it in action. With Fill Her Up you can actually see the Belly inflating in real time and you can actually set YOUR own maximum inflation limits. By looking at the mod's own files I can see that it seems to use scripts. So, just why and how does Fill Her Up manages to stretch the Belly like it does if the HDT / NPC Belly stretching during penetration seemingly cannot go beyond the apparent "universal limit" that all the Presets I've tried cannot seem to exceed?

 

3) BodySlide UUNP's Belly Sliders.

 

- Similarly to the what the Pregnancy mods do, when you build your own body Mesh in BodySlide (well in my case I'm using UUNP), you have sliders that are responsible for stretching the Belly for various effects. There's one for a pregnant-like inflation, but there's also sliders for a more "regular" and just bigger Belly variation, which also physically stretches the mesh.

 

Final Thoughts

 

So again I ask... why is it that yet again I see that stretching the Belly seems to be (at least visually) " inflatable / stretchable " to great lengths in such mods... BUT... when it comes to stretching it during penetration from a lengthy Schlong it just seemingly refuses to get past a certain point? Is it because stretching the Belly during penetration and stretching it for pregnancy-like inflation is actually achieved by doing completely different things? Are the Belly "bones" involved for Fill Her Up for example or not? Is that the problem? The "bones" cannot have specific angles inside the Belly past a certain point? Or is the problem in fact coming from the Male's NIF file? I mean... just... why?!

 

Here, some examples of what I have in mind in picture form (pardon my basic Microsoft Paint editing skills):

 

The red line represents where the Belly 'bulging' stops, and the green line represents where I'd like for the bulging to go (just as an example)...

 

 

Additionally...

 

If you guys would just take a second and look at that thread:

 

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/26891-how-to-enable-hdt-belly-distortions-with-sos-announcement/

 

See the GIF on the first page? See how much the Belly is bulging? Well, to be honest I don't think I have ever seen a Preset that allowed THAT much bulge for the Belly. So how did THAT one happen?

 

Now THAT is the kind of extra Belly stretching I'd like to see. But it seems to be simply and utterly impossible as of now. And a mod like Just For Fun seems (from my lacking knowledge) incapable of actually pushing the "limits" of that effect like it can for the Breasts and the Butt. So here I humbly knee, nearly defeated and ready to hear from the experts of this community that - ultimately - I will never see what I'm wishing for because it's merely impossible to do something like that currently for whatever the technical reasons are (which might be too complicated to explain to a Mr. Joe like me to begin with).

 

So, CAN it be done? Or not? And, if not... why? (if it's simple enough to explain).

 

Thanks!

[Garruk]

+1 because this is also something I've always wanted, but i do imagine there must be some limitations that prevent people from doing it, otherwise it would have already been done...i think!

[Bazinga]

Sorry, I didn't read all of the OP. Rude, I know, but I still think I can answer the why it clips through the mesh question anyway.

First, obviously it has to clip if the schlong (or the hand/arm) penetrates a part of the belly mesh too close to the pubic bone. Everything else would just look silly since females aren't made of rubber, but flesh and bones.

 

The reason why it clips if it should bulge further up is because if we wanted to take into account every single case of how the schlong penetrates (speed, angle, schlong size, schlong variants etc) then we would have to loosen the inner forces of the mesh to such a degree that belly jiggling would look like shit as a result. A compromise has to be made.

And it might still clip since HDT PE doesn't actually care about where the meshes themselves are located but only about the collision box sizes, shapes and locations (it's all in the xml files). And there new compromises are waiting. The schlong collision box needs to have a shape that makes collisions with the vagina and boobs look good too after all.

Short, it's a clusterfuck and getting the belly to bulge in one direction when the schlong collision box pushes it perpendicularly to that direction is already difficult enough. I hope I will at least be able to get that part right for all schlongs in the next update of my own xml set. 

[ChaosZen]

 

 

If you guys would just take a second and look at that thread:

 

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/26891-how-to-enable-hdt-belly-distortions-with-sos-announcement/

 

See the GIF on the first page? See how much the Belly is bulging? Well, to be honest I don't think I have ever seen a Preset that allowed THAT much bulge for the Belly. So how did THAT one happen?

 

Now THAT is the kind of extra Belly stretching I'd like to see. But it seems to be simply and utterly impossible as of now. And a mod like Just For Fun seems (from my lacking knowledge) incapable of actually pushing the "limits" of that effect like it can for the Breasts and the Butt. So here I humbly knee, nearly defeated and ready to hear from the experts of this community that - ultimately - I will never see what I'm wishing for because it's merely impossible to do something like that currently for whatever the technical reasons are (which might be too complicated to explain to a Mr. Joe like me to begin with).

 

So, CAN it be done? Or not? And, if not... why? (if it's simple enough to explain).

 

Thanks!

 

From what I've read at that link, it sounds like what is being discussed there, has more to do with using physics collision, but from the inside of the body mesh, so it isn't really scaling or changing the female's body in the conventional sense at all, but rather by using the collision of the male mesh to "push" outward on the female mesh. I think that Bazinga explained it in a bit more technical detail, where collision boxes are concerned and some of their limitations, but not sure how they achieved the effect with reasonable results and accuracy in the other discussion.

 

 

[Bazinga]

 

From what I've read at that link, it sounds like what is being discussed there, has more to do with using physics collision, but from the inside of the body mesh, so it isn't really scaling or changing the female's body in the conventional sense at all, but rather by using the collision of the male mesh to "push" outward on the female mesh. I think that Bazinga explained it in a bit more technical detail, where collision boxes are concerned and some of their limitations, but not sure how they achieved the effect with reasonable results and accuracy in the other discussion.

 

Close. But not entirely correct.

The mesh itself doesn't collide, it just follows the movement of the bones nearby. So if the NPC belly bone moves relative to the rest of the skeleton the belly part of the body mesh (so the part closest to the NPC belly bone) will move IF it was weightpainted to do so.

The bone on the other hand is what gets influenced by HDT PE. The xml files define collision boxes for the bones and if these boxes collide with each other and one pushes the other one aside then the bone moves in the same direction as that collision box and because of that the mesh will follow too.

 

I'm pretty sure it works very differently for HDT SMP though.

[ChaosZen]

 

Close. But not entirely correct.

 

The mesh itself doesn't collide, it just follows the movement of the bones nearby. So if the NPC belly bone moves relative to the rest of the skeleton the belly part of the body mesh (so the part closest to the NPC belly bone) will move IF it was weightpainted to do so.

The bone on the other hand is what gets influenced by HDT PE. The xml files define collision boxes for the bones and if these boxes collide with each other and one pushes the other one aside then the bone moves in the same direction as that collision box and because of that the mesh will follow too.

 

I'm pretty sure it works very differently for HDT SMP though.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification. But I agree, the original poster was asking if it were done by scripting a body morph or if some other process was used, and I think we can unanimously agree it is not a morph, but rather physics collision achieving that effect.

[Molokkx]

Wow!

 

I see there's been some answers since I posted this. Now that I have some time to come back here I'll take this opportunity to reply to everything I can!

 

+1 because this is also something I've always wanted, but i do imagine there must be some limitations that prevent people from doing it, otherwise it would have already been done...i think!

 

Oh definitely! I also think that there has to be at least * some * limitation(s) to how much the Belly can (or should) bulge and stretch. However, as it is currently I think that it's a little too restricted for my personal tastes (but of course, to each their own! some people don't like HDT Belly and that's understandable, some like it but only a very little 'amount' of it, that's fine too; but I for one like it a lot!). And, indeed, if what I was "asking for" in this thread was something that in fact would have been possible to do for a long time then by now there would have definitely been some XML Presets out there that would have done it for sure. However, my mentality for this was the following: "It's not because it hasn't been done by now that it means that it is technically impossible to do."

 

But you and I (and many others using Sexlabs and liking it when there's HDT Belly) can cross our fingers (and our toes too, if we can) for a potential future where generously lenghty and girthy (yeah I just made this one up) Schlongs will be able to bulge them Bellies more than they can(not) right now. Time will tell! (well, rather... modders will tell!).

 

Sorry, I didn't read all of the OP. Rude, I know, but I still think I can answer the why it clips through the mesh question anyway.

First, obviously it has to clip if the schlong (or the hand/arm) penetrates a part of the belly mesh too close to the pubic bone. Everything else would just look silly since females aren't made of rubber, but flesh and bones.

 

The reason why it clips if it should bulge further up is because if we wanted to take into account every single case of how the schlong penetrates (speed, angle, schlong size, schlong variants etc) then we would have to loosen the inner forces of the mesh to such a degree that belly jiggling would look like shit as a result. A compromise has to be made.

And it might still clip since HDT PE doesn't actually care about where the meshes themselves are located but only about the collision box sizes, shapes and locations (it's all in the xml files). And there new compromises are waiting. The schlong collision box needs to have a shape that makes collisions with the vagina and boobs look good too after all.

Short, it's a clusterfuck and getting the belly to bulge in one direction when the schlong collision box pushes it perpendicularly to that direction is already difficult enough. I hope I will at least be able to get that part right for all schlongs in the next update of my own xml set. 

 

It's... it's... the almighty Bazinga!

 

I've been using your Preset (among others) recently, very good stuff! I do love the naturalistic-looking movement specifically for the breasts, amazing work!

 

Ok now on to my replies!

 

Indeed I agree, there has to be a moment when the Belly basically goes: " Ok ok, I get it. You like your Schlongs super long heh? Alright, you know what? SCREW YOU! You, my bending-lover friend, WILL go NOWHERE at this point and I'm * not * going to turn Acrobatics 9000 Mode to accommodate Mr. I-Don't-Care-About-Physics. "

 

However, here's the thing! I think that it would be fair enough to say that, in the end, what matters is if we have fun eh? If we enjoy how it looks, even if it looks "silly"! I mean, sure there's supposed to be... well you know... organs and stuff inside yeah? Yeah I know, obviously. But the thing is it's a video game, and there's actually nothing inside the meshes, it's just a void with a shell so... there's so much potentially-wasted space for bigger and lengthier Schlongs, in my opinion. Some of us are into Futanari with.... well, with a lot of meat to work with. I'm into that stuff, I like to make my Futa characters with a big Schlong (although of course there's always a limit at some point) and I don't really like it when said Schlong's size just happens to be something like 10 centimeters "too long" only to have it clip through the Belly when all the Belly would need to do would be to bulge just a tad bit extra; nothing "exaggerated" but say... some more than it does right now.

 

As you said though, a comprise had to be established. But then again I'd actually like to at the very least SEE what it WOULD look like if, for example (and as you described it) we were to have a mesh where the " inner forces " were loosened to a great degree (or loosened 'enough' to allow for at least * some * more extra stretching). Even if it's just purely for testing and experimentation purposes. If, in the end, the majority of users (not just authors) would agree on the 'fact' that it does indeed looks way too exaggerated and 'loosened' then I suppose that no one (including myself!) would ever ask for something like this anymore and we'd all call it a case closed. The thing is we (well, we * users * more than modders) have never actually seen such a thing in action. I do believe that we'd have to visually witness how it looks like to properly understand not only how it works (at least visually) but to also understand how * difficult * it is to actually achieve something like I'm suggesting for on a technical level.

 

But you know what? Even you know said that you can potentially do something "more", by doing the 'schlong collisions box pushing perpendicularly' part "right" for a future XML Preset update of yours! So that is GREAT news to me! It shows that - at the very least - a few things "more" about this CAN be done! That's how positive I am about this!

 

Now yeah of course in the end everything is subjective eh? I think so anyway. I can * completely * understand it, and of course accept it if any particular XML Preset author do things their way, for their personal tastes. That's completely fine. It's also part of the reasons why I made this thread. Just in case! So that in the eventuality that someone would tell me how to do it myself with... say... with the Just For Fun mod, then of course I would do it for my own personal tastes, and perhaps I would then eventually publish it for others to potentially enjoy my Preset! I AM actually willing to continue trying, if it's worth doing it, that is.

 

But, yeah, more on that below because there's more replies to continue on with!

 

 

 

 

If you guys would just take a second and look at that thread:

 

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/26891-how-to-enable-hdt-belly-distortions-with-sos-announcement/

 

See the GIF on the first page? See how much the Belly is bulging? Well, to be honest I don't think I have ever seen a Preset that allowed THAT much bulge for the Belly. So how did THAT one happen?

 

Now THAT is the kind of extra Belly stretching I'd like to see. But it seems to be simply and utterly impossible as of now. And a mod like Just For Fun seems (from my lacking knowledge) incapable of actually pushing the "limits" of that effect like it can for the Breasts and the Butt. So here I humbly knee, nearly defeated and ready to hear from the experts of this community that - ultimately - I will never see what I'm wishing for because it's merely impossible to do something like that currently for whatever the technical reasons are (which might be too complicated to explain to a Mr. Joe like me to begin with).

 

So, CAN it be done? Or not? And, if not... why? (if it's simple enough to explain).

 

Thanks!

 

From what I've read at that link, it sounds like what is being discussed there, has more to do with using physics collision, but from the inside of the body mesh, so it isn't really scaling or changing the female's body in the conventional sense at all, but rather by using the collision of the male mesh to "push" outward on the female mesh. I think that Bazinga explained it in a bit more technical detail, where collision boxes are concerned and some of their limitations, but not sure how they achieved the effect with reasonable results and accuracy in the other discussion.

 

 

Yep! Indeed Bazinga explained it in details! I think I understand how it works a little bit better now but it's still on a quantum physics level of difficulty for my brain to process overall at the moment!

 

 

 

From what I've read at that link, it sounds like what is being discussed there, has more to do with using physics collision, but from the inside of the body mesh, so it isn't really scaling or changing the female's body in the conventional sense at all, but rather by using the collision of the male mesh to "push" outward on the female mesh. I think that Bazinga explained it in a bit more technical detail, where collision boxes are concerned and some of their limitations, but not sure how they achieved the effect with reasonable results and accuracy in the other discussion.

 

Close. But not entirely correct.

The mesh itself doesn't collide, it just follows the movement of the bones nearby. So if the NPC belly bone moves relative to the rest of the skeleton the belly part of the body mesh (so the part closest to the NPC belly bone) will move IF it was weightpainted to do so.

The bone on the other hand is what gets influenced by HDT PE. The xml files define collision boxes for the bones and if these boxes collide with each other and one pushes the other one aside then the bone moves in the same direction as that collision box and because of that the mesh will follow too.

 

I'm pretty sure it works very differently for HDT SMP though.

 

 

Ah!

 

So... if I get this right (this is related to my above reply; I.E. still not fully understanding how it actually works) then changing values with the Just For Fun mod * could * actually increase (even potentially) the Belly's stretching / bulging? Since, as you mentioned, the XML files define the [values / magnitudes / attributes] of the collision boxes for the bones, specifically. And since the Just For Fun mod changes XML values, then it will only influence that much, and nothing else. Although you say that the "mesh will follow too", if there's boxes colliding with each others: (" ...and one pushes the other one aside then the bone moves in the same direction as that collision box... ").

 

And if I get this right, the "mesh will follow too" part actually refers to the visual effect of the Belly stretching (Belly part of the mesh), which itself (the stretching effect) is a following of the movements of whatever technical shenanigans that's happening inside the mesh at the Belly level; such as the invisible but technically-preset Bones and collision Boxes, right?

 

In short, * can * the Just For Fun mod actually DO any of what I'm looking for?! And, if so, which values * are * responsible for such effects like the Belly stretching 'capacity' and limitations? Can the mod actually "push" those limits?! Is it the Constraints? The Mass Properties? Is it * anything * ?

 

I mean I'm totally ready to accept it (no sarcasm) if Just For Fun can't do anything about that specifically. Because I've been (potentially) losing my time testing all sorts of values and combinations with that thing for the past three weeks or so. If the mod can't do anything about it then I'll put it aside and be content with the known and published Presets we have around. And I'll also just merely reduce the actual size of my character's Schlong to avoid clipping and just call it a night (I wouldn't do that with a smile though... but if right now there's literally nothing I can do about it with the mod then I'll just leave things be as they are).

 

 

 

Close. But not entirely correct.

 

The mesh itself doesn't collide, it just follows the movement of the bones nearby. So if the NPC belly bone moves relative to the rest of the skeleton the belly part of the body mesh (so the part closest to the NPC belly bone) will move IF it was weightpainted to do so.

The bone on the other hand is what gets influenced by HDT PE. The xml files define collision boxes for the bones and if these boxes collide with each other and one pushes the other one aside then the bone moves in the same direction as that collision box and because of that the mesh will follow too.

 

I'm pretty sure it works very differently for HDT SMP though.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification. But I agree, the original poster was asking if it were done by scripting a body morph or if some other process was used, and I think we can unanimously agree it is not a morph, but rather physics collision achieving that effect.

 

 

Yeah! Me wondering if the effect was caused by scripts (or not?) stems from my use of the Fill Her Up mod.

 

With Fill Her Up, the Belly sure as hell stretches A WHOLE LOT if you just let the default values as they are already. BUT, if you increase the values it stretches even MORE. Does it look silly? Well, that's subjective! That's why the mod gives us options which is wonderful! But, on a technical level, I was curious to know if the mod actually achieved THAT kind of stretching in the SAME way the internal collisions causes the stretching from a Male NIF with an HDT Belly body mesh during penetration scenes. In other words, is Full Her Up technically " doing the same thing " to the Belly stretching effect as a Schlong does to an HDT Belly body mesh during penetration scenes? I don't know!

 

But, what I DO know (and can see while using that mod) is that it seems to be definitely possible to create a Belly "shape" that happens to be stretched to * great * extents such that it looks like the NPC is pregnant. BUT... the actual visual effect itself is NOT exactly like what the Pregnancy mods do to the Belly. Because even though the Belly is stretching (a lot) with Fill Her Up, it can STILL move on all the Axis AND is still stretching during penetration scenes (even though it is stretched by the mod, it can still bulge in response to the Schlong inside as it thrusts during penetration).

 

So I don't know if the Fill Her Up mod actually allows more stretching while still being HDT-enabled ... it does look like it though (at least visually). But after looking at the mod's files I can clearly see actual Scripts being used to achieve that effect (well I think they're being used for that effect). Although I'm not sure about what ARE the Scripts actually doing, but I do know that we do NOT need actual Scripts to have the regular Belly stretching working as it is with penetration scenes, because obviously it works without having to use the Fill Her Up mod itself; otherwise Fill Her Up would actually be a Prerequisite mod to have Belly + Schlong collisions working.

 

So the Scripts of the mod are an "extra" part which I find very curious. I do wonder if a talented modder here (* clears throat * B-Bazinga? Hehe!) could actually look into those scripts and determine is there's a potentially-unknown "bypass" method of some sort that would allow more Belly stretching to the same degree and extent allowed by the mod BUT instead to apply it for Belly collisions during penetration scenes? Perhaps even by using the Scripts themselves or by slightly modifying them to repurpose them?

 

Anyway, that's a lot for now and XML Preset authors are already doing a LOT of work for us all. I * absolutely * DO appreciate that believe me!

 

But I can't help but let my inner 'investigative' nature self speak out loud sometimes. I don't want people to think that I'm ungrateful of the work that has been accomplished with this whole HDT, Belly and Physics Extensions technical gems stuff around. It's absolutely incredible that we can have the stuff that we do currently have for Skyrim, Sexlabs and HDT effects. So thanks to all of you modders willing to give your time for this, for us! For the Dragonborn!

 

Alright!

 

So... yeah I'm a bit tired right now, not to mention that I just reduced the lifespan of my keyboard's keys by half thanks to this post!

 

Good night and cya all next time!

[Bazinga]

 

It's... it's... the almighty Bazinga!

 

I've been using your Preset (among others) recently, very good stuff! I do love the naturalistic-looking movement specifically for the breasts, amazing work!

Almighty my ass. I wish I was though. 

And thanks, glad you like it.

 

So... if I get this right (this is related to my above reply; I.E. still not fully understanding how it actually works) then changing values with the Just For Fun mod * could * actually increase (even potentially) the Belly's stretching / bulging? Since, as you mentioned, the XML files define the [values / magnitudes / attributes] of the collision boxes for the bones, specifically. And since the Just For Fun mod changes XML values, then it will only influence that much, and nothing else. Although you say that the "mesh will follow too", if there's boxes colliding with each others: (" ...and one pushes the other one aside then the bone moves in the same direction as that collision box... ").

 

And if I get this right, the "mesh will follow too" part actually refers to the visual effect of the Belly stretching (Belly part of the mesh), which itself (the stretching effect) is a following of the movements of whatever technical shenanigans that's happening inside the mesh at the Belly level; such as the invisible but technically-preset Bones and collision Boxes, right?

Yes to all of the above. 

 

 

In short, * can * the Just For Fun mod actually DO any of what I'm looking for?! And, if so, which values * are * responsible for such effects like the Belly stretching 'capacity' and limitations? Can the mod actually "push" those limits?! Is it the Constraints? The Mass Properties? Is it * anything * ?

Maybe. If you just want more belly bulging that can be done. There might still be clipping though, and you'd have to bend the schlong differently or move the actor a bit to get rid of that.

There are quite a few values influencing this btw, the most obvious being the locations and shapes of the involved collisions boxes and the constraints settings of the belly. The friction and restitution values also have an impact (too much friction will make the mesh stick to the schlong and pull it in the same direction instead of bulging out of the way).

[ChaosZen]

I think that loosening some constraints may be closer to what you are looking for, but keep in mind that when they start to get too loose, there will be significant distortion in the mesh and textures. Perhaps just a matter of how far gives a comfortable balance of quality and effect.

 

 

[Molokkx]

Hmmmmm I think I see now.

 

But there's a lot of values within the Constraints category. What about the motors? And the Linear and/or the Angular Limits? And the respective Y, X and Z axis for all of those? How about the values of the motors themselves? And the Friction values of the Constraints?

 

And, regarding the "Shapes", you guys are probably referring to shapes like Capsule, Cylinder, ConvexTransform, Sphere, etc? If that's the case, then is there a "best" type of shape I need to use for what I'm looking for? Or are they all good and only need adjustments? And, does the Belly Shape need to be identical to the Shape used in the hdtm XML file too? Basically the Schlong's shape versus the Belly shape? Can they be different or do they need to be identical to be compatible?

 

I have so many questions right now. The problem is that I am a very visual person, and having a visual (pictures or video-based) guide with examples of Just For Fun XML value adjustments would be awesome for me.

 

If I may humbly suggest... can anyone just upload me an "Extra Belly Bulging" 'pre-set' pair XML files? Well I'm saying "pair" but I guess there can just be one? I don't know. Maybe it'll require both hdtm and the body XMLs. So, perhaps just take the set that any of you guys happen to be using, and modify what you know needs to be changed for more bulging (nothing else, nothing for the Breasts, or the Butt, just to have more Belly bulging / stretching). Then upload it and I'll actually open those XMLs in Just For Fun to at least visually determine what is different then from your own changes versus the values I was tempering with for the past couple of weeks without any good results. Just for testing purposes.

 

Pretty please?

[darkevilhum]

TL:DR.. past the first paragraph.

 

Yes, yes you can using JFF and reading up on the HDT tutorials on what each attribute changes. + Some tweaking and testing in game. I find it even easier to make alterations when using SMP over HDT as the xmls are far easier to comprehend and the tutorial resources have increased as of late.

 

Edit: Little tip, I wanted to do exactly this when I first started using HDT so I experimented with JFF and the laziest way I achieved this was to increase the size/radius of certain collision objects (belly/penis) etc. After a bit though that becomes unsightly and requires position and physics fine tuning. Aka tweak n test..

 

HDT is also not as reliable when it comes to those types of collisions as SMP due to the nature of their differences.

[Revuu]

If I may humbly suggest... can anyone just upload me an "Extra Belly Bulging" 'pre-set' pair XML files? Well I'm saying "pair" but I guess there can just be one? I don't know. Maybe it'll require both hdtm and the body XMLs. So, perhaps just take the set that any of you guys happen to be using, and modify what you know needs to be changed for more bulging (nothing else, nothing for the Breasts, or the Butt, just to have more Belly bulging / stretching). Then upload it and I'll actually open those XMLs in Just For Fun to at least visually determine what is different then from your own changes versus the values I was tempering with for the past couple of weeks without any good results. Just for testing purposes.

 

I'd like to also join the queue for a belly bulge mod - last time I tried to exit those XMLs my character ended up with rubber chicken boobs and an inside-out stomach, then forgot how I did it when I came back to it later.

[MorePrinniesDood]

 

1) Pregnancy Mods.

 

- All of the pregnancy mods I've seen actually DO stretch the Belly pretty damn far. How is THAT effect accomplished? By just stretching the mesh itself? Do they use scripts to allow the Belly to stretch past a "normal limit"?

 

2) Fill Her Up.

 

- This one is probably the most fascinating in terms of HOW it technically works. I've been using this mod and seen it in action. With Fill Her Up you can actually see the Belly inflating in real time and you can actually set YOUR own maximum inflation limits. By looking at the mod's own files I can see that it seems to use scripts. So, just why and how does Fill Her Up manages to stretch the Belly like it does if the HDT / NPC Belly stretching during penetration seemingly cannot go beyond the apparent "universal limit" that all the Presets I've tried cannot seem to exceed?

 

Thanks!

 

Scripts are key here. Pregnancy mods and Fill Her Up do it with the NetImmerse.SetNodeScale SKSE function. When called on the "NPC Belly" skeleton node, it can inflate character's bellies to arbitrary degrees. Though some bodies/skeletons get ridiculous or glitchy after scale 7.0 or so.

 

[WaxenFigure]

 

Perhaps a different sort of solution could work?

 

Rather than have a "hollow" body stuff it with the equivalent of tubes or perhaps a single ball or football shape that the penetrating penis has to move out of the way and let those push the belly out.

 

Is that even possible? I think it would be able to give the desired look if it's possible.

[Bazinga]

Perhaps a different sort of solution could work?

 

Rather than have a "hollow" body stuff it with the equivalent of tubes or perhaps a single ball or football shape that the penetrating penis has to move out of the way and let those push the belly out.

 

Is that even possible? I think it would be able to give the desired look if it's possible.

Err that's exactly how it's working right now though.

I use sort of a pillow shaped collision object for the belly, but maybe other shapes would be better, dunno. The pillow does its job though, especially with the belly weight paint increase I did. Much less clipping of the penis through the belly mesh and visible bulge on many animations.

... That just reminds me that I still have to give an option for no belly bulge, some people might not like it.

 

 

Pregnancy mods are an entirely different topic btw. What they do has nothing to do with collisions, in fact I think using belly bone scaling via Netimmerse Overide might even work against the belly bulging provided by mods like mine since the collision box will probably move with the belly bone and out of the influence zone of the schlong.

So I installed Sexlab Inflation Framework and set the pregnancy method to Racemenu Morphs which look much better anyway.

It's still just a theory of mine though, will have to retest it with Netimmerse scaling to be sure.