Am I the only one seeing this?

[migal130]

Migal, I'm seeing the same thing when I do any Facegen and I had a horrific problem with Jenassa whose face ended up being dark brown for some reason.  

 

What I have done to help alleviate "SOME" facegen issues is to RENAME the tintmasks folder to "tinmasksHOLD" before I load up the CK to do any facegen exports.  

 

The creation kit engine doesn't seem to do to well with modded tintmask textures in my experience of exporting about a MILLION heads of NPC's that I personally edit.

 

Hope this helps and thank you for uploading your Housecarls/Bard's mods.  You definitely saved me the time of doing it myself.  

 

I had to manually reduce the brightness of the tint masks for the SSE versions.  It comes with the housecarls, but it's a patch for the bards.  Hopefully, we will eventually figure all this out and I can just revert them to what they should be.

 

 

Yatol, tell me something.  Does it ever get old, adding nothing to so many conversations?

 

does it ever get old, creating post about seam when there's over 9000 topics about that (and other things that came back again and again and again)

 

it's always the same problem, and the solution is always the same too

 

if you check sse technical forum

- stats resetting (changing race in showracemenu)

- ctd on merchant (broken item)

- black face (no tintmask)

- crashing when looting (broken item)

- ctd (euh... title don't say enought)

- saving on a horse -> game don't know you are on a horse when you load that save and if you move you start flying somewhere

- no viable alternative at input, there are tutos on the crap kit

well... there's a search function for a reason

 

 

Stop imagining you're teaching people things you really don't understand.  The only thing you're teaching anybody is how to make false claims and when caught, say it doesn't matter.

 

I understand you like to argue.  I understand you don't like Bethesda.  I began this thread because I was seriously trying to grasp something I was seeing in SSE.  If you just want to complain about Bethesda and remind us that modders have to fix things, please take it to the SSE complaint thread.  This thread is for those who can confirm and want to solve a specific problem.

 

This problem has even been confirmed by texture mod makers (see skysight skins page, the comment section is filled with fadingsignal trying to solve this issue)

 

This is not an old problem, is a new problem in SSE.

I'll try to find the Skysight skins page. I've been going in circles about this on Arthmoor's USSEP Nexus page for about a week and I've also mentioned it in the Nexus and NifSkope support forums. I couldn't seem to get people to take it seriously until I posted the normal map comparison.

 

I do not believe this is the only problem with head shading in SSE. I believe this is an aspect of it, maybe just a symptom. The SSE head normal map appears to be an object-space normal map, but the body is still old Skyrim's, which are tangent-space normal maps. The two methods are not supposed to be mixed.

 

More is going on here than just the change in normal maps. The head is still lighter when using the old game's head normal map or 3rd party texture maps for the old game. But, if we could understand why Bethesda thought they needed to change the normal map baking method, it might lead us to the underlying cause.

[yatol]

 

If you don't play on SSE, and you are not adding anything to this thread, why are you here?

This is not an old problem, is a new problem in SSE.

 

don't have the right to be there because don't have sse?

 

and there's that for your "new" problem

 

 

 

[migal130]

 

If you don't play on SSE, and you are not adding anything to this thread, why are you here?

This is not an old problem, is a new problem in SSE.

 

don't have the right to be there because don't have sse?

 

and there's that for your "new" problem

 

 

 

 

 

You have posted an image that is not vanilla Skyrim. That shading difference doesn't exist in vanilla Skyrim.

 

Please explain how posting an image that proves it is possible to lighten a head in the old game helps us understand what is happening in the new game, which uses totally different nif files and a new normal map?

[Furball]

Looks like USSEP will be including a fix to the normal map ( I followed the link alt3rn1ty gave yesterday on USSEP comments ), but its still not a fix for the light head problem ... I tried it as a loose file.

 

http://afkmods.iguanadons.net/index.php?/topic/4668-resources-for-ussep/page-2&do=findComment&comment=164806

 

Sounds like he / she does not know where else to look to solve this either.

[migal130]

Looks like USSEP will be including a fix to the normal map ( I followed the link alt3rn1ty gave yesterday on USSEP comments ), but its still not a fix for the light head problem ... I tried it as a loose file.

 

http://afkmods.iguanadons.net/index.php?/topic/4668-resources-for-ussep/page-2&do=findComment&comment=164806

 

Sounds like he / she does not know where else to look to solve this either.

Yes, I'm in PM communication with him about it now. I still can't post at afkmods for some reason. Maybe my account is too new.

 

Turns out, it probably wasn't the way they baked the normal map, but rather the settings they used. My friend was able to fix it in Gimp by simply saving the normal map as RGBA8.

 

As you said, the normal map was only part of the problem.  Sill more to learn.

[Andy14]

 

but i doubt the op screen is vanilla sse

I deleted my entire data folder before taking that screenshot.

 

The body textures in SSE are identical to Oldrim's body textures. Diffuse, normal, specular and subsurface are literally the same DXT1 files that were included with the old game.

 

Aside from subsurface, the SSE head textures for the new game are different from the old game.  For diffuse and specular, all they did was double resolution.  But, the head normal map is entirely new and it's a different color at the neck seam.

 

Head normal map changed as follows:

 

Old game:  512 x 512, DXT1, normal map baked with minor light source coming from the character's right.  Exhibits many artifacts.

 

New game:  1024 x 1024.  DDS, but not DXT1, DXT3 or DXT5 – a hex editor shows no label other than just DDS.  Normal map baked with a very bright light source coming from the character's front-left.  Exhibits no artifacts.

 

OldvsNewNormalMap.jpg

The normal map shading difference alone is enough to explain the neck seam, because Bethesda did not make a new body normal map to match the new head normal map.  The problem is, the neck seam remained even when I tested with three different 3rd party oldrim texture sets.

 

 

Switch green channel and blue channel can fix this. (Gimp or PS)

Looks like, as if Bethesda had used xNormals and the axes not adjusted correctly - happens to me often with xNormals.

[ousnius]

 

 

but i doubt the op screen is vanilla sse

I deleted my entire data folder before taking that screenshot.

 

The body textures in SSE are identical to Oldrim's body textures. Diffuse, normal, specular and subsurface are literally the same DXT1 files that were included with the old game.

 

Aside from subsurface, the SSE head textures for the new game are different from the old game.  For diffuse and specular, all they did was double resolution.  But, the head normal map is entirely new and it's a different color at the neck seam.

 

Head normal map changed as follows:

 

Old game:  512 x 512, DXT1, normal map baked with minor light source coming from the character's right.  Exhibits many artifacts.

 

New game:  1024 x 1024.  DDS, but not DXT1, DXT3 or DXT5 – a hex editor shows no label other than just DDS.  Normal map baked with a very bright light source coming from the character's front-left.  Exhibits no artifacts.

 

OldvsNewNormalMap.jpg

The normal map shading difference alone is enough to explain the neck seam, because Bethesda did not make a new body normal map to match the new head normal map.  The problem is, the neck seam remained even when I tested with three different 3rd party oldrim texture sets.

 

 

Switch green channel and blue channel can fix this. (Gimp or PS)

Looks like, as if Bethesda had used xNormals and the axes not adjusted correctly - happens to me often with xNormals.

 

I extracted the femalehead_msn.dds from my vanilla SSE and it doesn't look like that.

It must be a bug of your DDS plugins (NVIDIA or GIMP), because it still looks blue for me in Photoshop CS6 with the Intel plugin.

 

The only thing that changed is that they've saved it without compression (8.8.8.8).

[Andy14]

 

 

 

but i doubt the op screen is vanilla sse

I deleted my entire data folder before taking that screenshot.

 

The body textures in SSE are identical to Oldrim's body textures. Diffuse, normal, specular and subsurface are literally the same DXT1 files that were included with the old game.

 

Aside from subsurface, the SSE head textures for the new game are different from the old game.  For diffuse and specular, all they did was double resolution.  But, the head normal map is entirely new and it's a different color at the neck seam.

 

Head normal map changed as follows:

 

Old game:  512 x 512, DXT1, normal map baked with minor light source coming from the character's right.  Exhibits many artifacts.

 

New game:  1024 x 1024.  DDS, but not DXT1, DXT3 or DXT5 – a hex editor shows no label other than just DDS.  Normal map baked with a very bright light source coming from the character's front-left.  Exhibits no artifacts.

 

OldvsNewNormalMap.jpg

The normal map shading difference alone is enough to explain the neck seam, because Bethesda did not make a new body normal map to match the new head normal map.  The problem is, the neck seam remained even when I tested with three different 3rd party oldrim texture sets.

 

 

Switch green channel and blue channel can fix this. (Gimp or PS)

Looks like, as if Bethesda had used xNormals and the axes not adjusted correctly - happens to me often with xNormals.

 

I extracted the femalehead_msn.dds from my vanilla SSE and it doesn't look like that.

It must be a bug of your DDS plugins (NVIDIA or GIMP), because it still looks blue for me in Photoshop CS6 with the Intel plugin.

 

The only thing that changed is that they've saved it without compression (8.8.8.8).

 

 

 

May be. I just saw the screens and thought - I know.

If it is not so - the better.

 

 

Kann sein. Ich sah nur die Screens und dachte mir - kenn ich doch.

Wenn es nicht so ist - umso besser.

[ousnius]

 

I extracted the femalehead_msn.dds from my vanilla SSE and it doesn't look like that.

 

 

It must be a bug of your DDS plugins (NVIDIA or GIMP), because it still looks blue for me in Photoshop CS6 with the Intel plugin.

 

The only thing that changed is that they've saved it without compression (8.8.8.8).

 

May be. I just saw the screens and thought - I know.

If it is not so - the better.

 

Kann sein. Ich sah nur die Screens und dachte mir - kenn ich doch.

Wenn es nicht so ist - umso besser.

 

I confirmed with Jonwd7 that it's "simply" a bug of all NVIDIA related texture tools.

You have to use the Intel plugins for example, it will load them correctly there, with the colors being the same as in the old Skyrim.

[Andy14]

 

 

I extracted the femalehead_msn.dds from my vanilla SSE and it doesn't look like that.

 

 

It must be a bug of your DDS plugins (NVIDIA or GIMP), because it still looks blue for me in Photoshop CS6 with the Intel plugin.

 

The only thing that changed is that they've saved it without compression (8.8.8.8).

 

May be. I just saw the screens and thought - I know.

If it is not so - the better.

 

Kann sein. Ich sah nur die Screens und dachte mir - kenn ich doch.

Wenn es nicht so ist - umso besser.

 

I confirmed with Jonwd7 that it's "simply" a bug of all NVIDIA related texture tools.

You have to use the Intel plugins for example, it will load them correctly there, with the colors being the same as in the old Skyrim.

 

 

 

I use Gimp, not PS.

[ousnius]

 

 

 

I extracted the femalehead_msn.dds from my vanilla SSE and it doesn't look like that.

 

 

It must be a bug of your DDS plugins (NVIDIA or GIMP), because it still looks blue for me in Photoshop CS6 with the Intel plugin.

 

The only thing that changed is that they've saved it without compression (8.8.8.8).

 

May be. I just saw the screens and thought - I know.

If it is not so - the better.

 

Kann sein. Ich sah nur die Screens und dachte mir - kenn ich doch.

Wenn es nicht so ist - umso besser.

 

I confirmed with Jonwd7 that it's "simply" a bug of all NVIDIA related texture tools.

You have to use the Intel plugins for example, it will load them correctly there, with the colors being the same as in the old Skyrim.

 

I use Gimp, not PS.

 

Then it seems to be some addition to the DDS format that NONE of the other tools support, except for Photoshop with Intel.

[Andy14]

 

 

 

 

I extracted the femalehead_msn.dds from my vanilla SSE and it doesn't look like that.

 

 

It must be a bug of your DDS plugins (NVIDIA or GIMP), because it still looks blue for me in Photoshop CS6 with the Intel plugin.

 

The only thing that changed is that they've saved it without compression (8.8.8.8).

 

May be. I just saw the screens and thought - I know.

If it is not so - the better.

 

Kann sein. Ich sah nur die Screens und dachte mir - kenn ich doch.

Wenn es nicht so ist - umso besser.

 

I confirmed with Jonwd7 that it's "simply" a bug of all NVIDIA related texture tools.

You have to use the Intel plugins for example, it will load them correctly there, with the colors being the same as in the old Skyrim.

 

I use Gimp, not PS.

 

Then it seems to be some addition to the DDS format that NONE of the other tools support, except for Photoshop with Intel.

 

 

 

Can be - the change of G <> B in the RGB / RGBA was only so familiar.

 

A Nif with Head and Body Mesh + additionally the Normalmaps as Diffuse should clarify - finally in CK Preview.

 

If I really deal with SSE, I'll test it. But you're probably right.

[migal130]

Then it seems to be some addition to the DDS format that NONE of the other tools support, except for Photoshop with Intel.

I made the screenshots with PS CS6 using the Nvidia plugin. Resaving the file as 8.8.8.8 RGBA fixes the appearance, so think something is slightly different, but I don't think it matters from a practical standpoint. It isn't the cause of heads being lighter than bodies.