Wonder Body, what's your opinion about it pro and con?

[Jazzman]

Makes me wonder what an inverted-triangular, almost rectangular Type 4 Wonder Body with the average toon head gives you guys. If you think this could be, should be a fashion model type of sorts, perhaps even America's Next Top Model after the Fallout, hmm, maybe in the ladies room as lavatory cleaner. I for one stick to a customized CBBE for my char, despite minor flaws.

 

Just my 2 bottlecaps

[guk]

I agree with what you said, except for two things:

 

1.) CBBE can't work with dismemberment because of Bethesda, not because of us (there's a bug with too many triangles).

We're not making CBBE (far) less detailed because of this. We're talking going from 40000 something triangles to 10000.

 

The only other option would be splitting the body mesh into two meshes, but that's just horrible for modders and the engine.

 

Atomic Beauty has the same issue, because it is actually a morphed CBBE (or at least a custom mesh created from the CBBE mesh).

Jane Bod has the same issue, because it also has that many triangles.

 

2.) CBBE has all vanilla and DLC outfits supported officially as well.

Hi ousnius :-)

 

Yep i read that on the CBBE page and could hear the frustration in that statement. I'm still hoping that this can be fixed some day, one way or another - just don't expect Bethesda to do anything about this, i mean we are talking about THE Bethesda that just released the so-called "Skyrim Special Edition" with practically none of its ten thousands bugs fixed.

I'm not sure how your view is on dismemberment; in my opinion this is not just a graphical effect, but the whole limb damage/destruction is an integral gameplay feature - which is simply not being displayed properly in CBBE / JB / AB.

 

And yes technically you are correct that CBBE has all the vanilla items converted, but except the Vault Suit they all still use the ultra-low-poly vanilla meshes. So if you tested any of them with the SevenBase preset for example, they all look blocky and spiked like someone is smuggling cigarette boxes under the shirt.

 

It's not only the outfits looking blocky and distorted to the point of being immersion-breaking, but certains items that you'll be wearing all the time - like the Combat Armor pieces - are just way below any standards.

Meanwhile the author of Atomic Beauty has apparently put a lot of work into not just making his conversions hi-poly in all relevant areas, but also made the sliders form-fitting and minimized the UV distortions. Things like the Combat Armor just look perfect with the custom presets i made (down to B/C cup sizes) - for example the chest plate always keeps the shape of a plate, and the star is always in the right place without distortions.

edit: pic attached

 

 

Atomic Beauty - Combat Armor

 

 

 

 

 

And what i meant with "CBBE didn't develop in any significant way", there are more remaining problems with CBBE besides the vanilla conversions and missing dismemberment. Please excuse my harsh critique, if you're not in the mood for more then simply don't open the spoiler :-)

 

• I still see heavy textures seams on the wrist, which are not there with Atomic Beauty or Wonder Body.
• The whole body from the hips downwards doesn't replicate properly in-game - there always is this sharp dent at the upper inner thighs just below the crotch, and the leg shape seems strangely pulled down. I suspect this must have something to do with how the vanilla skeleton/animations or bone weights work in FO4. Also the upper torso always looks kind of hunchbacked while walking. Again, none of these problems are there with AB or WB.
• You mentioned that FO4 CBBE has 40.000 polygons, but honestly i don't see what you need them for with the Bodyslide morphs. The 7B and Muscle Definition sliders were a big step forward, but i'm still missing more delicate details like we had them in Skyrim's UNP/7B bodies with a mere sixth of the polygon count. Visible hip bones/muscles, genitals, shoulder muscles, more definition on the surface in general. Some of them were already done pretty nicely with the CBBE Athletic Girl mod, by the way.
• No matter how much time i spend in Bodyslide, the weight triangle in game will always ruin it. I would suggest an alternate ESP to simply deactivate that feature (i think that's how Jane Bod does it), or look into how Atomic Beauty does that because the breasts don't deform at all in that mod.

 

 

 

-------------

 

 

And lastly i noticed that i only pointed out the negative points in the Wonder Body, well here's the positive. The textures are excellent, besides the sloth-like (vanilla) bodyshape there actually is nothing to criticize about it.

[ousnius]

Hi ousnius :-)

What you're forgetting about is that having all vanilla outfits compatible, even with their crappy vanilla mesh, is way more important than having 20 that look good. There's a reason AB doesn't have them all yet - it takes too long. Also, anyone else is free to make high quality vanilla things for CBBE. And not everyone uses huge breasts where the issues are easy to see, so the majority will be just fine with the vanilla meshes.

 

It's always about getting the best compromise for as many people as possible, which is what CBBE is. It's not supposed to be the best body ever for person X (though it could be), it's supposed to work the easiest and be the most customizable and appealing for the majority of people. Clearly AB and WB were not made to be that, which is fine.

 

This is also not supposed to mean that we simply try to make CBBE a mainstream product like a bad TV show, we're still trying to make it as good as possible, but there's always compromises. The weight thing between the thighs and the slight seams aren't game killers for most people, so there's our compromise.

 

Some of it can be fixed in updates, but priorities change (currently SSE) and we don't have a lot of spare time.

There's so many things that go into making CBBE and BodySlide, that we sometimes forget about the small things and later don't have any time.

[guk]

 

 

Hi ousnius :-)

What you're forgetting about is that having all vanilla outfits compatible, even with their crappy vanilla mesh, is way more important than having 20 that look good. There's a reason AB doesn't have them all yet - it takes too long. Also, anyone else is free to make high quality vanilla things for CBBE. And not everyone uses huge breasts where the issues are easy to see, so the majority will be just fine with the vanilla meshes.

 

It's always about getting the best compromise for as many people as possible, which is what CBBE is. It's not supposed to be the best body ever for person X (though it could be), it's supposed to work the easiest and be the most customizable and appealing for the majority of people. Clearly AB and WB were not made to be that, which is fine.

 

This is also not supposed to mean that we simply try to make CBBE a mainstream product like a bad TV show, we're still trying to make it as good as possible, but there's always compromises. The weight thing between the thighs and the slight seams aren't game killers for most people, so there's our compromise.

 

Some of it can be fixed in updates, but priorities change (currently SSE) and we don't have a lot of spare time.

There's so many things that go into making CBBE and BodySlide, that we sometimes forget about the small things and later don't have any time.

 

 

Yeah man i'm not meaning to bash FO4 CBBE, just showing all the points where it - compared to Skyrim's CBBE - feels more like beta version, despite being out for a whole year.

[Hollerboller1970]

Yeah tried the mod.

 

Five minutes later i could not stand this any longer.

You can call it wonder body or whatever, but to call this body realistic is... wrong. This body is no more realistic than cbbe.

With cbbe atleast i can build a bodyshape that looks more feminine than wonder body and i mean not big huge breasts,

i mean simply a feminine shape.

I don't know where the mod author comes from, or why he/she thinks that his/her mod has a realistic female shape, but o boy

i would feel sorry for all hetero males in that country if there woman would actually all look like this.

You know, i can make a mod and say this is my vision or this is how i like it but i would not call it realistic in the discription of the mod,

because it's simply not. Sounds harsh but i don't sugar coat.

Besides i see enough uglyness when i look in the mirror or go out of my house.

 

Merry Christmas to you all 

[Nalessa]

Honestly, between bodyslide and ingame body triangle tool, I don't see why anything else then cbbe even exists.

 

You can have small boobs, large, huge.

 

You can be skinny, normal, thick, fat ...

 

It covers pretty much any body type, any boob type, any butt type.

 

And thanks to bodyslide armors will fit aswell so no dumb situation like in skyrim where there's 30 different bodytypes and you have to choose one and forget about being able to use a lot of armors out there because they won't fit you without ugly clipping.

[Cock Sucker]

For me it was like oblivion, I tried cbbe then hgec came along and I loved it, skyrim it was unp then unpb that did it for me over other bodies, in fallout 4 cbbe was nice but the look of wonder body impressed me more as it reminded me of unp, so I'm waiting for hdt and bigger 36' size for it

[Shadow_Hazard]

 

So what is your opinion about it?

 

Meh. Looks too much like the vanilla body shape: rather boring, and generally somewhat unappealing, to be honest. And if it doesn't support BodySlide then it's useless to me.

 

I'll stick with CBBE! It is the best in every possible way, IMO. I find all other Body mod attempts to be utterly futile when we have CBBE and BodySlide to play with.

[alucrad90]

Honestly, between bodyslide and ingame body triangle tool, I don't see why anything else then cbbe even exists.

 

You can have small boobs, large, huge.

 

You can be skinny, normal, thick, fat ...

 

It covers pretty much any body type, any boob type, any butt type.

 

And thanks to bodyslide armors will fit aswell so no dumb situation like in skyrim where there's 30 different bodytypes and you have to choose one and forget about being able to use a lot of armors out there because they won't fit you without ugly clipping.

 

A funny fact is ... CBBE is one of the 2(or 3?) body mods that still support this "body triangle tool"

 

While the JB and AB had already delete these skeleton nodes from their body mesh

[Nalessa]

 

Honestly, between bodyslide and ingame body triangle tool, I don't see why anything else then cbbe even exists.

 

You can have small boobs, large, huge.

 

You can be skinny, normal, thick, fat ...

 

It covers pretty much any body type, any boob type, any butt type.

 

And thanks to bodyslide armors will fit aswell so no dumb situation like in skyrim where there's 30 different bodytypes and you have to choose one and forget about being able to use a lot of armors out there because they won't fit you without ugly clipping.

 

A funny fact is ... CBBE is one of the 2(or 3?) body mods that still support this "body triangle tool"

 

While the JB and AB had already delete these skeleton nodes from their body mesh

 

What is the advantage of doing that though?

 

Doesn't it limit the sizes available to your bodymod if you delete the triangle?

[alucrad90]

 

 

Honestly, between bodyslide and ingame body triangle tool, I don't see why anything else then cbbe even exists.

 

You can have small boobs, large, huge.

 

You can be skinny, normal, thick, fat ...

 

It covers pretty much any body type, any boob type, any butt type.

 

And thanks to bodyslide armors will fit aswell so no dumb situation like in skyrim where there's 30 different bodytypes and you have to choose one and forget about being able to use a lot of armors out there because they won't fit you without ugly clipping.

 

A funny fact is ... CBBE is one of the 2(or 3?) body mods that still support this "body triangle tool"

 

While the JB and AB had already delete these skeleton nodes from their body mesh

 

What is the advantage of doing that though?

 

Doesn't it limit the sizes available to your bodymod if you delete the triangle?

 

 

 

It makes weight paint easier if you delete these node only for body shape

[gurugeorge]

I've switched to WB for now, I really like it.  I particularly like that a lot of the subtle female bumps and lumps are done with the mesh.  The clothes look great too.  Since it looks like it's going to be quite some time (if ever) before FO4 becomes the giant sex toy that Skyrim has become, I'm quite happy playing the game normally with WB.

 

The thing about WB is that it looks like the same body from all angles, whereas with most of the other bodies, they might look great from a particular angle, but other angles they look terrible.  WB looks unified, like a single thing, from any angle you look at her, and it definitely gets the anatomy right in a way that the others don't (I mean anatomy in terms of shape).  If you look at a top-down view, the way he's done the pelvis and thigh area is particularly good, really quite realistic to my eyes. 

 

Dream Girl for Skyrim had a similar realistic feel to the torso, but she was more fantasy oriented (and her ankles and wrists were a bit too thin for most peoples' tastes, I think, but everything else was great).

[Onipants]

I like WB, just a shame don't have so much armors as CBBE with Bodyslide. But I kind of misses UNPB.

[Thelys]

The textures of the body are amazing not gonna lie, but the shape itself doesn't fit my liking. Everything is so flat, not that there's anything wrong with that. If it had it's own sort of bodyslide, then it can become something. But as of now, I'm sticking with CBBE.

[Daguy]

It's going to be my main body from now on. First, the pussy doesn't deform (CBBE) and the ass doesn't deform (EVB) in doggystyle. When the legs are spread the pussy still looks amazing. When the arms are raised in shackles, the underarms don't look fugly. The latter two issues are the 4k-8k textures; but the the former is a body issue that is going to be a real nasty problem as sex mods advance.

 

I also like the body shapes, and used EVB until now. But the lack of flexibility and high resolution textures were a deal breaker when this became an option.

 

One of the biggest advantages is that vanilla outfits, and outfits based on the vanilla meshes, will work right away. No waiting for a compatibility patch or running multiple meshes through a program. Just because all the DLC are out doesn't mean you are safe with CBBE. For example, I can't play without Tales from the Commonwealth these days, and it has several vanilla based outfits that have the usual texture bugs with a 'none-vanilla-UV' body. I don't understand all the griping. I don't use outfit mods, except the occasional port or mashup. I was never going to use CBBE, because it offers me literally nothing. I just want an amazing looking, lore friendly-ish, that plays nice with my game, and will look good with the eventual sex mods.  It's not a war; I was 'happy' with EVB, and this is basically EVB on crack.

 

I'm honestly stunned. I was expecting the crotch what doesn't turn into a horrific warped mess to have people raining praise. Ah well. It's gotten over a thousand endorsements since Nov. And that's just the people who bother to endorse. So I don't think the creator is going to get discouraged.

 

[alucrad90]

I like WB, just a shame don't have so much armors as CBBE with Bodyslide. But I kind of misses UNPB.

 

FFB is the FO4 verson of UNPB

 

And you can just use cbbe skin with it

[RenaSan]

I'd probably use this body mod over cbbe if not all outfits were made for cbbe.

The majority of people are happy with this, so the authors of those outfits are not really pushed to make their outfits compatible. And I don't know how ports are going to work.

 

If this body were to get it's own kind of bodyslide and people started making versions of their outfits for it, that'd be idea. I'm afraid though that it'd be quite too much work for most peoples taste and modders will usually only bother with cbbe, because that's what the masses want.

[Demonwise]

I may have already posted this but if not I'll throw in my two cents. I really enjoy using the wonder body. As a texture artist I love the wonder body compared to cbbe. Don't get me wrong I still love cbbe but anyone who has done any serious texture work with the cbbe body will know that the way the texture is mapped to the body mesh there are some areas that have some really bizarre distortions. Mainly these occur around the breasts. There are areas where the texture gets bent and twisted due to the uv map. The wonder body doesn't have these distortions so when you make a change on a texture it maps more or less exactly the way it should to the mesh. Most people will never incur these texture problems or notice the distortions but it becomes very noticeable if the texture you working with has a recognizable pattern. Let's say it's a hash pattern. Just a bunch of criss crosses. Around the breasts you will notice the lines bend and contort very strangely. Like I said, the wonderbody doesn't' have this problem from what I have seen. 

 

On a different note I really enjoy the level of detail put into the modeling of the genital area as well on the wonderbody.

 

Does it suck that there is no bodyslide support for it? Hell yes it does but with a bit of work you can get it mapped properly to the sliders in outfit studio.

[ChubbyKitty]

 

...since gaming now-a-days is all about customization.

 

Exactly. I spent ages setting up an ESP to randomize 63 different body presets to my settlers so they spawn with entirely different and beautiful bodies. At any given time I carry twenty out of 120 different presets in my inventory to either switch my own body or that of my settlers as I wish.

The concept of uninstalling CBBE, which gives me that kind of power and flexibility, to install a single preset just doesn't make sense. It's a huge step back no matter how worthy the single body template is.

 

 

 

What, really? I didn't think doing that was possible with Fallout 4 yet. Are these mods out there that do that? Multiple player bodies for different character saves, or NPCs have different bodies to the player?

 

[Painiscupcake]

It does look like a great body shape but currently compared to cbbe is just too lacking in outfits/customization i feel. This is not really on the mod author but rather on other mod creators to convert armors to the shape, but it seems unlikely to happen anytime soon.

[Karna5]

 

 

 

...since gaming now-a-days is all about customization.

 

Exactly. I spent ages setting up an ESP to randomize 63 different body presets to my settlers so they spawn with entirely different and beautiful bodies. At any given time I carry twenty out of 120 different presets in my inventory to either switch my own body or that of my settlers as I wish.

The concept of uninstalling CBBE, which gives me that kind of power and flexibility, to install a single preset just doesn't make sense. It's a huge step back no matter how worthy the single body template is.

 

 

 

 

What, really? I didn't think doing that was possible with Fallout 4 yet. Are these mods out there that do that? Multiple player bodies for different character saves, or NPCs have different bodies to the player?

I'm up to way over a hundred randomly generated presets in game now. All my settlers and minutemen (which are all female) have a pool of over 100 body shapes. Every time I make or download a preset I like I add it to my ESP. All you need to do is create an ESP which replaces the levelled list clothings with your clothing you make of different presets. CBBE and Bodyslide make that easy.

 

Edit: I don't use unique player mod. The shapes are swapped as clothing. I saw there are a couple of mods which say they do that, too, but I never tried them. I just made my own so I can customize which presets I put in my world.

[Malandar]

Meh, I'll stick with Janebod myself for now, more sliders than CBBE and the default is closer to what I like and easier to get what I like out of it.

[student20]

I loves the WonderBody... I think it looks great with the Valkyr face textures, and it's nice not needing to run the body lab app every five minutes. Actually, it's made me stop DLing every damn outfit I see... which is good.

 

It's only bad because I literally can't. There are outfits I really, really like (Elianora, anyone?), but I can't use them because they're set up for Vanilla or CBBE, which is an issue. What makes it worse is that while I can use any CBBE outfit on a vanilla body (good god why?), I can't use it on a Wonderbody. Is there a CBBE profile for the wonderbody for outfits out there somewhere?

 

As a final note... I think I may have made my first post here instead of whatever forum LL has for newcomers. Sorry! Long time lurker, maybe first time poster (my memory is, like, BAD. Like medically bad...)

[iikagen]

Eh, WB uses the same UV mapping as vanilla, so vanilla outfits should work with little issue.

 

Unfortunately I can't seem to find any tutorial for converting CBBE stuff to vanilla (only lots for vanilla to CBBE), so it's sucks to not be able to use the CBBE only stuff. Still tho ultimately WB is just too high quality for me to drop.

[pipboy334]

I like it a lot myself. But not sure how to convert outfits, strap-ons etc to fit body looks messed up when using animations etc.