Centaur in the works, fully functional (update 04.05.2017 - nexus link pg 1)

[wishnot4]

Well, it's nice to hear so many people are interested in my project.  One thing I will warn, the way I made my rig doesn't make for the easiest animation creation.  To have the player be able to use whatever horse/human body types they want, the rig is a little awkward.  I've been making animations with it, and most of them are looking pretty good(considering that I'm a subpar animator).  But I believe with a little practice and ingenuity, anyone can make all kinds of animations with the centaur.

[XcOm04au]

Well, it's nice to hear so many people are interested in my project.  One thing I will warn, the way I made my rig doesn't make for the easiest animation creation.  To have the player be able to use whatever horse/human body types they want, the rig is a little awkward.  I've been making animations with it, and most of them are looking pretty good(considering that I'm a subpar animator).  But I believe with a little practice and ingenuity, anyone can make all kinds of animations with the centaur.

 

Exactly! I am sure that people will easily get the hang of it, there are so many good animators in this forums.

[wishnot4]

Well the only problem with that is, most of those animators will want to add animations(namely sex animations) and since the custom Havok project I made for centaurs is not compatible(yet) with FNIS, they couldn't add the animations.  The skywind guy who taught me how to make the custom Havok projects said that it was an easy fix, but since I had no desire to add the centaur to the FNIS template (that's what he said had to be done) I didn't do it.  Also, I'm not even sure which template he was referring too.

[fore]

Well the only problem with that is, most of those animators will want to add animations(namely sex animations) and since the custom Havok project I made for centaurs is not compatible(yet) with FNIS, they couldn't add the animations.  The skywind guy who taught me how to make the custom Havok projects said that it was an easy fix, but since I had no desire to add the centaur to the FNIS template (that's what he said had to be done) I didn't do it.  Also, I'm not even sure which template he was referring too.

 

FNIS is not a big deal once you have learned to look into behavior xml files.

 

I assume your project file was derived from an existing creature. Get the 2 files (usually) called 

  <creature>/behaviors/<creature>behavior.hkx

  <creature>/characters/<creature>_default.hkx

and turn them into xml (which you probably already have).

 

Then got to the FNIS creature pack and get the files

  <creature>/behaviors/<creature>behavior_TEMPLATE.txt

  <creature>/characters/<creature>_default_TEMPLATE.txt

 

You can compare the templates with the vanilla xml files, and they are almost identical. Each of these template files has 2 small segments added (in one file indicated by "<!-- ***** FNIS begin ***** -->", in the other one just look for "$"). These changes add custom animation files, and custom behavior files (the files that OTHER modders will have to create with the modders tool).

 

With the exception of 2 numbers (number of files, and number of states) you can even copy these lines into you centaur behavior files.

 

Then you only have to make an entry for your centaur into "BehavioredObjects.txt", and your creature is known to other animators.

 

 

[wishnot4]

 

Well the only problem with that is, most of those animators will want to add animations(namely sex animations) and since the custom Havok project I made for centaurs is not compatible(yet) with FNIS, they couldn't add the animations.  The skywind guy who taught me how to make the custom Havok projects said that it was an easy fix, but since I had no desire to add the centaur to the FNIS template (that's what he said had to be done) I didn't do it.  Also, I'm not even sure which template he was referring too.

 

FNIS is not a big deal once you have learned to look into behavior xml files.

 

I assume your project file was derived from an existing creature. Get the 2 files (usually) called 

  <creature>/behaviors/<creature>behavior.hkx

  <creature>/characters/<creature>_default.hkx

and turn them into xml (which you probably already have).

 

Then got to the FNIS creature pack and get the files

  <creature>/behaviors/<creature>behavior_TEMPLATE.txt

  <creature>/characters/<creature>_default_TEMPLATE.txt

 

You can compare the templates with the vanilla xml files, and they are almost identical. Each of these template files has 2 small segments added (in one file indicated by "<!-- ***** FNIS begin ***** -->", in the other one just look for "$"). These changes add custom animation files, and custom behavior files (the files that OTHER modders will have to create with the modders tool).

 

With the exception of 2 numbers (number of files, and number of states) you can even copy these lines into you centaur behavior files.

 

Then you only have to make an entry for your centaur into "BehavioredObjects.txt", and your creature is known to other animators.

 

 

Thanks fore.  Again, I had no desire to mess with it, not when I've got the entire race to make work and the current animation list will do for that.  But it's great information for anyone who will want to play around with my centaurs once they are released, so thank you again for the information.  Everyone interested in adding their own animations to the centaurs when released, just follow fore's advice!

 

Edit: Oh, there is one thing that is not exactly right though.  I did and I didn't base the centaurs off an existing behavior.  I used the character behaviors and after converting them to xml, I only had to edit one line in the xml, in the default(fe)male.hkx file I had to change it's directory name to reflect the new behavior name.  And then there was a bunch(a bunch) of editing in the animationdatasinglefile.txt and the animationsetdatasinglefile.txt files.  Also had to use the CRC calculator to get the numbers for the file paths.  And this is all a little too complicated to go into in this small of a place.  Some day I intend to write a tutorial on it.

[fore]

 

Thanks fore.  Again, I had no desire to mess with it, not when I've got the entire race to make work and the current animation list will do for that.  But it's great information for anyone who will want to play around with my centaurs once they are released, so thank you again for the information.  Everyone interested in adding their own animations to the centaurs when released, just follow fore's advice!

 

Sure, character. I should have known that, since you wrote it's a playable race. Then adding that stuff to the template might become a little bit more complicated. But the guys from Skywind have managed to change the FNIS template? Interesting.

 

Great job with the Centaur btw.

 

Edit: Oh, there is one thing that is not exactly right though.  I did and I didn't base the centaurs off an existing behavior.  I used the character behaviors and after converting them to xml, I only had to edit one line in the xml, in the default(fe)male.hkx file I had to change it's directory name to reflect the new behavior name.  And then there was a bunch(a bunch) of editing in the animationdatasinglefile.txt and the animationsetdatasinglefile.txt files.  Also had to use the CRC calculator to get the numbers for the file paths.  And this is all a little too complicated to go into in this small of a place.  Some day I intend to write a tutorial on it.

 

That of course interests me as well. I don't know if you know that FNIS changes those text files as well for different reasons. Much of it is documented in the modders' doc. But I have never tried to add a new race. 

 

Did you add a copy of one complete default(fe)male block? Or two (3rd and 1st person)?

Then you probably had to change the pathname crc for each file. Lot of fizzling.

 

Oh, and talking about it, that is a problem not only for integrating FNIS animations into your centaur. That makes your centaur incompatible with FNIS to begin with. Because FNIS is changing those 2 files every time as well.

[wishnot4]

 

 

That of course interests me as well. I don't know if you know that FNIS changes those text files as well for different reasons. Much of it is documented in the modders' doc. But I have never tried to add a new race. 

 

Did you add a copy of one complete default(fe)male block? Or two (3rd and 1st person)?

Then you probably had to change the pathname crc for each file. Lot of fizzling.

 

Oh, and talking about it, that is a problem not only for integrating FNIS animations into your centaur. That makes your centaur incompatible with FNIS to begin with. Because FNIS is changing those 2 files every time as well.

 

That's what the skywind guy said, that FNIS would break the centaurs until they were added to some template.  I'll be honest, I didn't give it much thought, since I'm not really a big FNIS user.  Love your mod, it's an excellent mod.  But until recently, I did nothing with animations.  And now I'm making tons and tons.  Yes, I duplicated the default(fe)male block and edited the CRC codes to match the new centaur file folders.  It's not supper hard, at least, not after the skywind guy gave me the list of all the file directories hexadecimal codes.  I created a text file with all the CRC - hexadecimal numbers for both male and female.  Used the CRC calculator to get the hex for the new file directories and did the whole replace feature that notepad had and replaced all the file directories from default(fe)male to where I had the files in my centaur folders.  Of course, you also will have to go in to the CK(supposedly it can be done in tes5edit - but I was told the CK's was easier to work with) and add the behavior stuff there. 

[fore]

 

 

 

That of course interests me as well. I don't know if you know that FNIS changes those text files as well for different reasons. Much of it is documented in the modders' doc. But I have never tried to add a new race. 

 

Did you add a copy of one complete default(fe)male block? Or two (3rd and 1st person)?

Then you probably had to change the pathname crc for each file. Lot of fizzling.

 

Oh, and talking about it, that is a problem not only for integrating FNIS animations into your centaur. That makes your centaur incompatible with FNIS to begin with. Because FNIS is changing those 2 files every time as well.

 

That's what the skywind guy said, that FNIS would break the centaurs until they were added to some template.  I'll be honest, I didn't give it much thought, since I'm not really a big FNIS user.  Love your mod, it's an excellent mod.  But until recently, I did nothing with animations.  And now I'm making tons and tons.  Yes, I duplicated the default(fe)male block and edited the CRC codes to match the new centaur file folders.  It's not supper hard, at least, not after the skywind guy gave me the list of all the file directories hexadecimal codes.  I created a text file with all the CRC - hexadecimal numbers for both male and female.  Used the CRC calculator to get the hex for the new file directories and did the whole replace feature that notepad had and replaced all the file directories from default(fe)male to where I had the files in my centaur folders.  Of course, you also will have to go in to the CK(supposedly it can be done in tes5edit - but I was told the CK's was easier to work with) and add the behavior stuff there. 

 

 

I thought a little bit about your project, and where I can help.

1. Making the centaur compatible with FNIS: that requires a patch in the FNIS patch list, and appropriate changes in the animation*.txt files. Assuming that you only have added one (or two?) blocks for the ne centaur project. That's not a big deal. I can do that. As soon as you have uploaded your mod, and when you will not frequently change the files any more.

    

2. Allowing FNIS custom animations (acyclic, cyclic, and sequenced as for all current creatures) for a centaur creature. That's not a big deal. Requires changes in 2 of your behavior files, and an entry in BehavioredObjects.txt. Same requirements from my side as before.

    

3. Allowing FNIS custom animations for a centaur playable race. I actually doubt that one single animator can do that. Are even a group in near future. CPU has talked about 300 files wich are required for that. I think it's much much more. 3rd person alone has more than 1500 character animations. A few are NPC only. And a few you propable can avoid by logical changes in CK conditions or scripts (like riding or sitting animations. But I gues you would still need at least 1300 animations. Not counting 1st person, which I don't think you can use as is.

    

   Be that as it may, this would require severe changes in FNIS. FNIS character is the core of the generator, and making this for 2 different types of character would have big impact, and severe threat on FNIS stability as is. Both, to have all FNIS features (like furniture animations, gender, killmoves, alternate animations, ...) available, or restricting certain functionality for your centaur. Bottomline is that I will not make such FNIS changes. And I'm sure no one else would be able to do that (without rewriting FNIS). 

EDIT: Supporting a "centaur creature only". doesn't mean I only support when you make it a creature. It means I can only add creature functionality (acyclic, cyclic, sequenced), even when you make it playable.

[wishnot4]

I think I understand you.  And your right, it is a major chore.  So, it's quiet possible that the people who are so excited for my centaurs will be disappointed when they come out becuase of the FNIS issues.  And yes, it is a huge(huge) list of animations to make.  I've currently made around 30 or so animations and that is just in the 1h animations(and a couple of the mt animations).  So, it's going to be a very long time to get this project done.  Spike and I are planning to release an alpha version of the mod once I've got all the 1h animations finished.

[fore]

I don't think FNIS is the big problem.

 

Once point 1 and 2 are solved you can have more animation variety than AP has offered through all the years. Many animators have included creature animations, and that will be possible with your centaur as well. EVEN when it's a playable race.

 

[wishnot4]

Well, if that's the case then, I guess the animators will be happy.  But like I've said, I won't be messing with it, more than enough on my plate with all of these animations to make.

[XcOm04au]

Well there you go Fore, you have something to play with...other than....

 

cant think of a punchline.....*dies*

[Guest]

I wouldn't recommend a sneaky build for this race.

[XcOm04au]

I can just imagine, CLIP CLOP CLIP CLOP, centaur walking through a cave...

 

Guard - "what was that noise"

 

*guard looks around* (LVL 100 sneak centaur staring at the guard right in front of him)

 

Guard - "hmmm, must have been my imagination"

 

Guard takes a knee to an arrow.

[wishnot4]

I can just imagine, CLIP CLOP CLIP CLOP, centaur walking through a cave...

 

Guard - "what was that noise"

 

*guard looks around* (LVL 100 sneak centaur staring at the guard right in front of him)

 

Guard - "hmmm, must have been my imagination"

 

Guard takes a knee to an arrow.

Okay, this is pretty funny.  Yeah, I haven't started on the sneak animations.  I'm having a hell of a time trying to think up what they would look like.  I mean, seriously, how would a horse sneak?  It's not like they can creep along the ground like a dog or a cat!

[D C]

You can see the oblivion centaur mod video, you will get your answer

[wishnot4]

You can see the oblivion centaur mod video, you will get your answer

Thanks watching the video gave me some ideas on a few of my animations. Hopefully we will have a very alpha version of the mod released by the end of the month. It all depends on how long it will take me to make the rest of the one hand animations.

[D C]

It nice to hear it helped

[Breastex]

 

You can see the oblivion centaur mod video, you will get your answer

Thanks watching the video gave me some ideas on a few of my animations. Hopefully we will have a very alpha version of the mod released by the end of the month. It all depends on how long it will take me to make the rest of the one hand animations.

 

 

Keep it up! I can't wait to try it out, this is a dream come true. You are the best!

[XcOm04au]

This is going to be awesome, I cant wait, and I am sure the rest of the community cant wait.

 

Also can I have an estimate no what % you are at to completing the mod to alpha stage wishnot4?

[wishnot4]

I've done over 20 1h animations and a few MT animations.  In truth, the alpha version of the mod is pretty much ready to go, it's just a matter of getting the rest of the 1h animations done.  And real life keeps getting in the way.  On the bright side, I did knock out 3 animations today.  On the down side, I noticed something I did wrong to 3 other animations at the same time. I'm pretty sure, it will be an easy fix for those three animations.  1 thing I will remind everyone of, I am a subpar animator, some of these animations won't look professional.  I feel that the community will understand and still enjoy the mod for the ground breaking achievement that it is.

[D C]

I feel you

[wishnot4]

Hey, anyone know how to edit jump animations?  Actually, I just need to understand how to lift a character in animations.  Several of the centaur animations are a little low(especially the block animations).  I've tried lifting the entire skeleton, I've tired lifting the root node and the npc com node.  But the root and com both only rotate when I try to lift them.  And lifting the entire skeleton, didn't seem to have any affect in game. So, any ideas?  I'm going to skip the blocks for now and keep working on the rest, but I know I'm going to need that info sooner or later.

[MadMansGun]

Hey, anyone know how to edit jump animations?  Actually, I just need to understand how to lift a character in animations.  Several of the centaur animations are a little low(especially the block animations).  I've tried lifting the entire skeleton, I've tired lifting the root node and the npc com node.  But the root and com both only rotate when I try to lift them.  And lifting the entire skeleton, didn't seem to have any affect in game. So, any ideas?  I'm going to skip the blocks for now and keep working on the rest, but I know I'm going to need that info sooner or later.

 

don't move the root node, it should stay at X=0 Y=0 Z=0.

 

(assuming 3DS Max)

select the root node and click on the "Animation" drop down menu, then select "Bone Tools".

scroll down in the Bone Tools menu and uncheck "Freeze Length" and "Auto-Align", the com node will now be unlocked and usable.

[wishnot4]

 

Hey, anyone know how to edit jump animations?  Actually, I just need to understand how to lift a character in animations.  Several of the centaur animations are a little low(especially the block animations).  I've tried lifting the entire skeleton, I've tired lifting the root node and the npc com node.  But the root and com both only rotate when I try to lift them.  And lifting the entire skeleton, didn't seem to have any affect in game. So, any ideas?  I'm going to skip the blocks for now and keep working on the rest, but I know I'm going to need that info sooner or later.

 

don't move the root node, it should stay at X=0 Y=0 Z=0.

 

(assuming 3DS Max)

select the root node and click on the "Animation" drop down menu, then select "Bone Tools".

scroll down in the Bone Tools menu and uncheck "Freeze Length" and "Auto-Align", the com node will now be unlocked and usable.

bonetools.jpg

 

Thanks, it never occurred to me to change those settings to edit those things.