? The Selachii - Shark Race

[Blaze69]

When messing around with trying to make a high poly head mesh for normal maps, It just looks terrible when trying to do it in the default tri polygons. I could probably get away with it whith the khajiit heads since fur detail looks better over tri polygons, but not for smooth skin. [...]

 

Here is a version that I remeshed to quad, then increased the polycount. Also, remeshing it got rid of the seem lines on the head accept the part I masked under the cheeks or jaw lines. So I am not sure if it will cause problems. I could always try to mimic the seems.

Yeah, I've heard quads work way better than tris, specially in Zbrush and similar programs. Well, as far as I know, for normal map generation/baking using hi-poly to low-poly, you don't need both meshes to be the exact same data-wise (and the hi-poly model doesn't even need to have UVs, only, well, shape), so I don't see why changing from tris to quads could cause issues. The mouth may be somewhat of a problem, though, due to the overlapping in that area, but we won't know until we get to the baking phase.

 

Could yo try baking the normals with the hi-poly mesh as it is right now? The normal map will probably come out flat because you haven't added any mesh detail yet, but that way we can find out whether the normal map baking process works as intended or not. Wouldn't want you to waste your time working on the hi-poly mesh only to find out it doesn't work.

[NightroModzz]

K, I'll do that tomorrow. It's 3:30am right now. Also, the mouth is fine. I did something so seems and edges don't budge, even when smoothing over it.

[Blaze69]

Alright, new version is up! Let me know if you come across any issues, yadda yadda yadda. Enjoy!

 

K, I'll do that tomorrow. It's 3:30am right now. Also, the mouth is fine. I did something so seems and edges don't budge, even when smoothing over it.

Neat, let me know how it went once you are done  .

[zzz72w3r]

Is it just me or that Sharkmer is becoming more and more dolphin like ?

[Blaze69]

Is it just me or that Sharkmer is becoming more and more dolphin like ?

Well, as I showed on a pic some posts ago, the main change in the design (the white underbelly extending up all the way through the mouth to the nose) is actually based on actual sharks (great whites, to be more specific), so I didn't intentionally make them more dolphin-like. Though it's true they are close and I do like dolphin anthros as well, so I could have subconsciously gone a bit for that idea, lol  .

Edited April 28, 2017 by Blaze69

[zzz72w3r]

I was thinking more from the nose to the mouth.  The more shapely and lifelike Sharkmer's head has gotten the closer it resembles the famous dolphin smirk than the Great White's patent menacing laugh.

[NightroModzz]

I was thinking more from the nose to the mouth.  The more shapely and lifelike Sharkmer's head has gotten the closer it resembles the famous dolphin smirk than the Great White's patent menacing laugh.

New normal maps and textures that will be made by me should fix that. I'll also try to give the skin a rough like appearance while still having a wet-like shine to it, and make the mouth area a little roughed up, but not to a displeasing point.

[Taven]

BLEGH, disregard what I said earlier, the follower plugin requires YA. xD

[Kuroyami]

 

This sounds good, though I'm not so sure about the whole hireling deal.

 

Mainly because IIRC there is only a single female voice with support for the required dialogue, and it's the Dark Elf one, so I would have to change her voice. Either that, or duplicating Jenassa's hiring dialogue line and point it somehow to use one of the voiced shared responses (like "okay, you've talked me into it", "okay, just this once" or "thanks, this is for you"). Probably would have to go for the latter because otherwise I would have to repack a copy Jenassa's voice file with the new ID if I wanted it to be properly played.

 

The idea about the quest sounds good, and the follower-only line to start her quest is nice as well and should be easy to do.

 

A thought I had given that, was perhaps her usual jobs are bigger than just some random person asking for her help, so maybe in the case of the player, she would not be too concerned about the payment. Probably will change her dialog a bit to make that clear. 

 

Though the Dark Elf voice would not be unfitting for her, though I don't think she would exactly use some of the terms that set has, obviously. So perhaps the above is best. 

 

 

BLEGH, disregard what I said earlier, the follower plugin requires YA. xD

 

Well, there is a version of the Follower plugin now that does not need YA, on the mod's page. Not sure what your comment was previously, though. 

 

Also, Loki.

 

I've actually made two presets for him, each with a slightly different look. One has his fur black and hair white, with blue details. The other has his fur white and hair black, with black details - this one is pictured. Either one is fine. He does use one of hairs in the YA-Hairs plugin, which hopefully is not a problem to include. 

 

Selachii-NPC-LokiYA.7z

 

And Gaku.

 

I have to fix a few things, I know. As for his hair, I'm thinking one similar to that one, but not shaved at the sides, which KS Hairdos likely has one. For the tattoos...yeah, I really do not expect to get that close to the reference image in the mod. Mostly since I'm not sure if that effect can be easily gotten otherwise, and then there is the issue of permissions, no matter what resource would be used. 

 

I still want to work on this one, and show it off better. 

 

[NightroModzz]

Lke Gaku. He looks like a battle ready necromancer. Although, he does have some seem issues. And that texture issue on the thighs looks like a seem mismatch.

[Blaze69]

[...] Also, Loki. I've actually made two presets for him, each with a slightly different look. One has his fur black and hair white, with blue details. The other has his fur white and hair black, with black details - this one is pictured. Either one is fine. He does use one of hairs in the YA-Hairs plugin, which hopefully is not a problem to include. 

 

And Gaku. [...]

Oh, man, I'm starting to lag behind on character creation and development pretty badly. I still have the Hiyasu preset which I haven't even tried ingame, and I'm not sure if there is any other as well (I don't seem have any other files laying around, though I may be wrong). Plus Fume's new dialogue/quest.

 

Then there are some improvements I want to make to the current NPCs as well, like building (or at least duplicating) some kind of AI package to make Ko'Maru actually do something instead of simply staying in his room.

 

I tried giving him J'zargo's training package, but it caused some weird overlapping that would end up with both of them trying to cast Destruction spells at the same target from the same marker at the same time. Best part is, usually J'zargo would arrive earlier and end up right in Ko'Maru's "line of fire", which in turn would end up with Ko'Maru's spells causing him to aggro and a fight to death ensued. So long, J'zargo, we hardly knew ye, lol  . Not exactly something I want to happen.

 

I may implement Loki ingame soon, but with basic AI packages(read: a generic sandbox one). I'll see what I can do once I'm done with Ko'Maru.

 

Lke Gaku. He looks like a battle ready necromancer. Although, he does have some seem issues. And that texture issue on the thighs looks like a seem mismatch.

Yeah, I have to agree with you on that, he looks good. Though perhaps it would be good to tone down the hair color; it looks a bit too... artificial, even for a necromancer in Apocrypha. Just make it a bit darker and reduce the saturation so it blends better with Apocrypha's own shade of (dark and "dirty) green, and he should be good to go .

 

As for the seams, I am completely unable to find the cause of the weird shadow/black line seam on the schlong because the textures are 100% seamless themselves (made sure when I edited them in Mudbox). It isn't that noticeable either; most (if not all) ENBs seem to remove it or greatly reduce it and show the proper seamless look it should have. Maybe something to do with the meshes themselves? Microseams or something that cause vanilla shadows to go crazy and show up like that? Will have to check it out.

 

And the thigh one should not be there, because the textures are seamless with the SOS body. That specific mismatch appears when you use textures built for the vanilla/Better Males bodies on SOS meshes, or the other way around. I don't remember the specular being that shiny, not even with special weathers/shaders like in Apocrypha, so chances are Kuroyami is either using a mod that dynamically replaces the specular (like Wet Function Redux) or has swapped the default specs with some other ones originally built for the BM body.

 

EDIT: Just tried to give Ko'Maru something to do by making him study at the Arcanaeum during the morning and also spend some time at the Hall of the Elements before dinner. Those are just basic "Sandbox in specific cell" packages, but should do the trick, and they are better than doing nothing. Will have to check how they work ingame, though.

 

BTW, Kuroyami, two things: you may want to revisit Hiyasu's preset and maybe export it again, because it doesn't look like the example image and it also makes him look, like, super shiny, lol.

 

And the other one:

 

 

For the tattoos...yeah, I really do not expect to get that close to the reference image in the mod.

Is there a reference image for Gaku? I have searched in the thread and there is no mention of or link to a such image. If there is, could you share a link? Nothing important or pressing, though, just asking in case I missed it because I'm curious  .

Edited April 28, 2017 by Blaze69

[Kuroyami]

 

Yeah, I have to agree with you on that, he looks good. Though perhaps it would be good to tone down the hair color; it looks a bit too... artificial, even for a necromancer in Apocrypha. Just make it a bit darker and reduce the saturation so it blends better with Apocrypha's own shade of (dark and "dirty) green, and he should be good to go 

 

 

That was the intent. A sickly looking yellow/green. Though it seems better for the tattoos, since they have the glow effect through RaceMenu. I darkened the hair after using it's former color for the tattoos. I'll have to see what I can do with it. I'm thinking the color used for my Luca character(avatar) is probably too dark as well - though hers is meant to be formerly black. However Gaku is meant to be effected heavily by unnatural power, though I'll still try getting it closer to say, Apocrypha's sky color. 

 

 

And the thigh one should not be there, because the textures are seamless with the SOS body. That specific mismatch appears when you use textures built for the vanilla/Better Males bodies on SOS meshes, or the other way around. I don't remember the specular being that shiny, not even with special weathers/shaders like in Apocrypha, so chances are Kuroyami is either using a mod that dynamically replaces the specular (like Wet Function Redux) or has swapped the default specs with some other ones originally built for the BM body.

 

Yeah, some of those seems are likely due to the normal map edit I made, which I'll just remove. Along with the fact that have not added my updated rextextures yet. 

 

BTW, Kuroyami, two things: you may want to revisit Hiyasu's preset and maybe export it again, because it doesn't look like the example image and it also makes him look, like, super shiny, lol.

 

Sure. 

 

Is there a reference image for Gaku? I have searched in the thread and there is no mention of or link to a such image. If there is, could you share a link? Nothing important or pressing, though, just asking in case I missed it because I'm curious   .

 

Not sure if I posted it before. ishigray. I cannot get his skin that dark though, given the way the game is. Though would it be possible to make his eyes glow? Not sure exactly how that works, though. 

 

[Blaze69]

[...] Not sure if I posted it before. ishigray. I cannot get his skin that dark though, given the way the game is. Though would it be possible to make his eyes glow? Not sure exactly how that works, though. 

Nah, I think you didn't post the link before, but that doesn't matter. Nice pic, BTW  . As always.

 

You can get the eyes to have some fake "glow" by editing the emmitance color and values in NifSkope. In fact, IIRC the "Glowing Eyes for Khajiit" listed by BadDog in the recommended mods section of Yiffy Age uses the same method to achieve that look. I will look into it, should be possible to add edited eye meshes with the proper settings. We'll see.

[Kuroyami]

Might have a better color for his hair.

 

 

Removed the mentioned normal map edit, changed the body mesh to the one from the SOS HDT mod, set him at weight 20, and made some slight changes to his face(different nose and eye shapes). Also, I did set up two presets previously, the only difference being the tattoos. 

 

Not sure about the shiny body, since I don't really use Wet Function Redux, I've only tested it. Otherwise, I am using Vivid Weathers, and changing a few settings(Nights:Low, Interiors:Low, Brightness:High and either Low or Medium for the Bloom). Most of these shots do have the character directly facing a light, which is the starting area for "Waking Dreams". 

[NightroModzz]

Gonna just give the normal maps to you tomorrow. Well, technically it is tomorrow for me. I spent most of the day having to do random stuff and spent a lot of time looking for a new (L-shaped) standing desk for my new place. (Really, really need a standing desk)

 

Anyways, I wanted to just add some level of detail to the mesh. Much more fun than just moving polygons around.

 

 

 

 

 

Next/tomorrow I'll just add some detail to the forehead and nostrils, then start baking the normal maps for the test. If all good, I'll continue adding detail.

[Blaze69]

Gonna just give the normal maps to you tomorrow. Well, technically it is tomorrow for me. [...] Anyways, I wanted to just add some level of detail to the mesh. Much more fun than just moving polygons around. [...]

 

Next/tomorrow I'll just add some detail to the forehead and nostrils, then start baking the normal maps for the test. If all good, I'll continue adding detail.

This whole timezone deal is a bit confusing sometimes, lol. I feel like a philosopher, going all "what is tomorrow?", "what is today?", "when does one end and the other start?" and so on  .

 

Anyway, that image sure does look good. I hope everything goes well so you can get down to adding actual detail to the textures (and looking forward to the end result ).

 

Remember that while Skyrim uses Object Space normals for characters. If you can't export those for some reason, I can deal with Tangent-Space ones just fine because XNormal has a Tangent to Object normal converting tool and so far it has worked fine for me. And if you do manage to export Object space, make sure to compare the placement of the colors with the current head normal map to make sure the directions have been properly set up and match Skyrim standards (I can send you the specific texture if you don't want to browse through the main download).

[NightroModzz]

 

Gonna just give the normal maps to you tomorrow. Well, technically it is tomorrow for me. [...] Anyways, I wanted to just add some level of detail to the mesh. Much more fun than just moving polygons around. [...]

 

Next/tomorrow I'll just add some detail to the forehead and nostrils, then start baking the normal maps for the test. If all good, I'll continue adding detail.

This whole timezone deal is a bit confusing sometimes, lol. I feel like a philosopher, going all "what is tomorrow?", "what is today?", "when does one end and the other start?" and so on  .

 

Anyway, that image sure does look good. I hope everything goes well so you can get down to adding actual detail to the textures (and looking forward to the end result ).

 

Remember that while Skyrim uses Object Space normals for characters. If you can't export those for some reason, I can deal with Tangent-Space ones just fine because XNormal has a Tangent to Object normal converting tool and so far it has worked fine for me. And if you do manage to export Object space, make sure to compare the placement of the colors with the current head normal map to make sure the directions have been properly set up and match Skyrim standards (I can send you the specific texture if you don't want to browse through the main download).

 

Don't need texture examples yet. Just gonna do normal maps, then back to hkajiit heads, then textures, then khajiit head normal maps. But yeah, go ahead and send it for later.

 

Anyways, your probably confused because I stay up late. On average it's 3am, and once in a while I'll stay up till day light. I am more of a night person. On average, I think you get on around 3am and off at 3pm my time. (California Pacific time) And it is 2:47pm at the time of this post.

[Blaze69]

Don't need texture examples yet. Just gonna do normal maps, then back to hkajiit heads, then textures, then khajiit head normal maps.[...]

I didn't really meant is as a "texture example", but rather something else. AFAIK Object Space normal maps use different colors (green, blue, pink-ish) to represent directions, so if you use the wrong axis setup, the normals will cause lighting bugs like something looking like it's lit from behind and dark at the front when actually in direct sunlight and so on.

 

That's why I said if you end up baking the object space normals yourself, you should compare them with the existing normals to make sure the colored areas and by extension the directions they represent are properly placed. So, pink on the left, blue on the right, green at the top, etc. (speaking from the top of my head right now, not really sure this is the proper layout).

 

Of course, the alternatives are to use tangent space normals instead, or to send me the hi-poly head mesh exported from ZBrush so I can bake the normals myself with XNormal, because I already have the proper settings for Skyrim normal generation. Not sure what program you intend to use to bake the normals, though, so I think it's better to try that one first and only resort to XNormal as the backup plan.

[NightroModzz]

 

Okay, thought you were talking about both normals and textures. Go ahead and send it. I have Xnormal downloaded, but plan on baking it in Substance Painter 2. It just has better end results than Xnormal and Zbrush. It can also bake meshes up to 1 million polygons. Not sure how many polygons Xnormal can handle.

[NightroModzz]

Just thought of something. I can use the high poly heads to make a helmet around it. This is long term and just something I will do whenever though. But the main idea would be for Sharkmers to use more water resistant metals. Usually consisting of a combination of gold, silver, and steel ingots for a light faded gold chrome themed armor for them. And maybe a silverfish edge transition of weapons with blue clothed sheaths. I have thought of a shark bite themed sword and a sword-like trident staff too.

 

I'd prefer to have the high poly version of the meshes to make the armor around it in order to match their normal maps too, but I guess bodyslide ruins that kind of effect anyways on how it causes armor to stick to the skin in a way. Not sure about the feet since it may change later on, depending on BD. Also for the body, I guess I can use a low poly body since there will be BodySlide conversions and I can ask the author of "Better Claws and Gauntlets" If he/she is willing to give me the high poly mesh version to make armor.

[Blaze69]

Just thought of something. I can use the high poly heads to make a helmet around it. This is long term and just something I will do whenever though. But the main idea would be for Sharkmers to use more water resistant metals. Usually consisting of a combination of gold, silver, and steel ingots for a light faded gold chrome themed armor for them. And maybe a silverfish edge transition of weapons with blue clothed sheaths. I have thought of a shark bite themed sword and a sword-like trident staff too.

 

I'd prefer to have the high poly version of the meshes to make the armor around it in order to match their normal maps too, but I guess bodyslide ruins that kind of effect anyways on how it causes armor to stick to the skin in a way. Not sure about the feet since it may change later on, depending on BD. Also for the body, I guess I can use a low poly body since there will be BodySlide conversions and I can ask the author of "Better Claws and Gauntlets" If he/she is willing to give me the high poly mesh version to make armor.

Hey, that sounds great. More content is always better, and custom race-specific gear is something I want to add to the mod at some point if it's possible, so by all means go ahead whenever you want .

 

Not really sure what you mean with the second paragraph, though. What effect does BS ruin? What do you mean "stick to the skin to a way"?

[NightroModzz]

 

Not really sure what you mean with the second paragraph, though. What effect does BS ruin? What do you mean "stick to the skin to a way"?

 

Converting stuff in BS to bodies, not so much clothes but armor will cause stuff to stick to the mesh like skin and bouncy on breasts which doesn't make much sense for armor. I prefer to make the armor around the high poly mesh that was used to make normal maps to avoid any kind of possible clipping for clothes and a proper gap between skin/clothes and armor. But that would be mesh specific though. So BS is unavoidable anyways.

 

Also, I just finished the head mesh to an acceptable degree by my standards for now. But my standards are already high so I won't be able to do a whole lot more, but still more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll send you the OBJ in a pm just in case Substance Painter doesn't work out, though I doubt it. Or if you just want to test the difference between the two. I'll start baking it in a little while. Plus I need to download the Latest version of SP2.

[Blaze69]

Converting stuff in BS to bodies, not so much clothes but armor will cause stuff to stick to the mesh like skin and bouncy on breasts which doesn't make much sense for armor. I prefer to make the armor around the high poly mesh that was used to make normal maps to avoid any kind of possible clipping for clothes and a proper gap between skin/clothes and armor. But that would be mesh specific though. So BS is unavoidable anyways. [...]

Actually, that is not true. Breasts (or any other physics-enabled body part, for that matter) are bouncy if and only if you use the HDT version of the body as a reference for the rigging and weight painting of the armor. If you use the vanilla/non-HDT weights version of the body instead, you don't get jiggly bits at all.

 

As for "stuff sticking to the mesh", I assume you mean when using sliders, the armor mesh seems to stick to the body and morph along (sometimes getting distorted), right? Well, that is how the sliders work, at least with the Auto Conform to sliders feature. You can actually tweak the result of the sliders, both by editing the slider in BS itself and by importing and exporting slider data as OBJs.

 

You can, for example, export the slider data for any of the UUNP preset body sliders (like UNP or 7Base), tweak the result manually using Blender or Max or any other modeling software so that the armor conforms to the body as intended while retaining most of the original/logical shape, and then import the edited mesh into BS so that the slider has that end result.

 

It allows for almost flawless conversions, though it rarely happens (if ever) because it takes a lot of work because the number of slider is pretty high. Most people just use the auto conform and then tweak the most problematic sliders manually, but the ones that seem to be good enough with the auto are left as they are.

[Blaze69]

Okay, I just baked the new normal maps for the head. This is the result so far:

 

   

 

I may have to tweak the neck area because I think I cut the existing normal map (to retain its seamless transition into the body) too close to the limit and thus there are some microseams (if you can call them that) that show up from some angles, but they are almost invisible, so no big deal. Also the gills came out better than I expected, which is neat  .

[NightroModzz]

Now that I know that it works, I'll just finish it.

 

Has that indent on the inner side of the ears been there before? The nostrils came out decent, but not the best. Most of the problem is the low poly mesh though. I think it's best if I lower the gills towards the bottom of the neck. There is less stretching there. I should probably only have the ear holes on the normal map in order to get rid of that cross caused by stretched polygons. Also, were the eyes already sunken in like that or is it caused by the normal map?