Problem with texture Transparency (glass/transparent rubber)

[Vitriks]

I do understand how to make something completely transparent. But I don't understand how to make something 50% transparent. Changing brightness of alpha layer doesn't work for me. Does anyone know how they make glass lens and transparent latex body suits?

[G0ldSil3nce]

By brightness of alpha layer do you mean NifSkope Alpha? If not u can edit the built armor after bodyslide mesh by loading it into nifskope and changing the alpha which is 0 ~ 1 and 50% would be 0.5 or around 0.6 

[Vitriks]

By brightness of alpha layer do you mean NifSkope Alpha? If not u can edit the built armor after bodyslide mesh by loading it into nifskope and changing the alpha which is 0 ~ 1 and 50% would be 0.5 or around 0.6 

I need that 50% transparency work before creating the final .nif file in the BodySlide

[Kargrin]

I tried imitating the half transparency method of Skyrim on Fo4, but in the end it got me a strange squared up (chess) effect on the outfit.

 

http://imgur.com/TrowOdR

[Jansen]

Did you figure out how to fix this Kargrin?

[Jansen]

In case anyone is having this issue still and doesn't know how to fix it; instead of using a BGSM use a BGEM (if you're using the 3ds max 2013 tools, it's the BSEffectFX material to load BGEMs). You'll need to separate out the parts of the mesh you want to be transparent into their own objects in 3ds max then apply the BGEM to those parts (since it's an all or nothing from what I've found), the empty nuka cola bottle is a good example to take a look at for understanding how BGEMs should be setup.

 

I managed to get it working here using BGEM; http://i.imgur.com/3ZymANg.jpg (isn't great but I've only been modelling and uvmapping for 3 and a half weeks   ).

[Perraine]

You can have transparent/translucent and opaque parts on the same mesh with the .bgem file. Delete the BSLightingShaderProperty and replace it with a BSEffctShaderProperty using Nifskope.

 

Then in the .bgem file, set the "Alpha" to 1.5 and set the Alpha Method to "Standard". You can then adjust the transparency level of any particular part just on the texture.

 

I'm still not certain what all the values do in the .bgem file, but if you specify a cubemap file, it will give items that glossy, reflective "glass" effect. With no cubemap specified, the texture will appear very "flat" as the uses an "internal light source" not external, so shadowing is a little "funky".

 

 

[Vitriks]

You can have transparent/translucent and opaque parts on the same mesh with the .bgem file. Delete the BSLightingShaderProperty and replace it with a BSEffctShaderProperty using Nifskope.

 

Then in the .bgem file, set the "Alpha" to 1.5 and set the Alpha Method to "Standard". You can then adjust the transparency level of any particular part just on the texture.

 

I'm still not certain what all the values do in the .bgem file, but if you specify a cubemap file, it will give items that glossy, reflective "glass" effect. With no cubemap specified, the texture will appear very "flat" as the uses an "internal light source" not external, so shadowing is a little "funky".

Outfits I make, have outfit studio support. I can't edit .nif file because changes won't appear after creating new file.

[Perraine]

 

You can have transparent/translucent and opaque parts on the same mesh with the .bgem file. Delete the BSLightingShaderProperty and replace it with a BSEffctShaderProperty using Nifskope.

 

Then in the .bgem file, set the "Alpha" to 1.5 and set the Alpha Method to "Standard". You can then adjust the transparency level of any particular part just on the texture.

 

I'm still not certain what all the values do in the .bgem file, but if you specify a cubemap file, it will give items that glossy, reflective "glass" effect. With no cubemap specified, the texture will appear very "flat" as the uses an "internal light source" not external, so shadowing is a little "funky".

Outfits I make, have outfit studio support. I can't edit .nif file because changes won't appear after creating new file.

 

 

Outfit Studio supports BSEffectShaderProperty and .BGEM files. Just make the changes before opening the mesh in OS. Or create the outfit, build it in Bodyslide, open in Nifskope, make the change, then re-open it in Outfit Studio, and save the outfit again, then rebuild it in Bodyslide.

[Vitriks]

You can have transparent/translucent and opaque parts on the same mesh with the .bgem file. Delete the BSLightingShaderProperty and replace it with a BSEffctShaderProperty using Nifskope.

 

Then in the .bgem file, set the "Alpha" to 1.5 and set the Alpha Method to "Standard". You can then adjust the transparency level of any particular part just on the texture.

 

I'm still not certain what all the values do in the .bgem file, but if you specify a cubemap file, it will give items that glossy, reflective "glass" effect. With no cubemap specified, the texture will appear very "flat" as the uses an "internal light source" not external, so shadowing is a little "funky".

I not sure how replace BSLightingShaderProperty with BSEffctShaderProperty. Do I need to copy it from somewhere? And what is the difference between bgem and bgsm?

[Perraine]

In Nifskope highlight the BSLightingShaderProperty , right click --> Block --> Remove Branch..

Then Right click on the Scene Root  --> Block --> Insert --> Bethesda --> and select BSEffectShaderProperty from the list.

 

It will add it to the bottom. you need to make note of the number to the left of it --> now left click on the BSSubIndexTriShape and in the Block List window scroll down to BSProperties --> click the triangle to expand the tree and it should have 2 entries = BSProperties that have a value of 'none' --> double click the first one and type in the number you noted next to the BSEffectShaderProperty you just added, that will associate it with the outfit mesh.

 

It's pretty much the exact same process as adding an Alpha Property to an outfit mesh, except you are actually replacing the BSLightingShaderProperty with a BSEffectShaderProperty.

 

As for what the difference is between .bgsm and .bgem - There is probably some technical explanation, but LightngShaders use .bgsm and EffectShaders use .bgem. and in the .bgem file, the texture paths go in the "Effects" tab in material editor. there is a bunch of things you can tweak in there, I'm still not sure what all of them do though.

 

 

[Vitriks]

In Nifskope highlight the BSLightingShaderProperty , right click --> Block --> Remove Branch..

Then Right click on the Scene Root  --> Block --> Insert --> Bethesda --> and select BSEffectShaderProperty from the list.

 

It will add it to the bottom. you need to make note of the number to the left of it --> now left click on the BSSubIndexTriShape and in the Block List window scroll down to BSProperties --> click the triangle to expand the tree and it should have 2 entries = BSProperties that have a value of 'none' --> double click the first one and type in the number you noted next to the BSEffectShaderProperty you just added, that will associate it with the outfit mesh.

 

It's pretty much the exact same process as adding an Alpha Property to an outfit mesh, except you are actually replacing the BSLightingShaderProperty with a BSEffectShaderProperty.

 

As for what the difference is between .bgsm and .bgem - There is probably some technical explanation, but LightngShaders use .bgsm and EffectShaders use .bgem. and in the .bgem file, the texture paths go in the "Effects" tab in material editor. there is a bunch of things you can tweak in there, I'm still not sure what all of them do though.

I mean what the difference in transparency effect between BSLightingShaderProperty and BSEffectShaderProperty?

[Perraine]

By using the bgem, and the BSEffectShaderProperty you can not only adjust the level of translucency, but you can have translucent and opaque parts on the one mesh with the one texture. as in my example. That is one mesh and one texture.

 

Using just the old "Alpha Method" meant that the whole texture was invisible, ~50% translucent or fully opaque, nothing in between, and if you wanted to make some of the mesh translucent and some opaque, (as in my quick underwear test) you had to "break it up" into parts in a 3D program. and apply different textures and .bgsm files to each piece separately.

[Vitriks]

and if you wanted to make some of the mesh translucent and some opaque, (as in my quick underwear test) you had to "break it up" into parts in a 3D program. and apply different textures and .bgsm files to each piece separately.

 

I thought that alpha layer determine what is translucent and what is opaque. And how to make something 50 % transparent using old method?

 

And thanks for your explanation. I finally starting to understand how things work.

[myuhinny]

Have you tried using gimp2 and lassoing a area with the lasso tool that you want to add transparency to and then using the eraser (set to a lower power do not set it to 100 opacity or it's erase everything) and then erase that are so much then save as to overwrite the texture file and then in the nif go to node - attache property - NiAlphaProperty. This is how I do it for skyrim and if fallout 4 is the same then you will be able to do it this way as well.

[Perraine]

 

and if you wanted to make some of the mesh translucent and some opaque, (as in my quick underwear test) you had to "break it up" into parts in a 3D program. and apply different textures and .bgsm files to each piece separately.

 

I thought that alpha layer determine what is translucent and what is opaque. And how to make something 50 % transparent using old method?

 

And thanks for your explanation. I finally starting to understand how things work.

 

Not anymore it seems, The 'Alpha method" was a system used for Skyrim meshes, by adding a NiAlphaProperty to the .nif file, you could adjust the amount of transparency in various parts of the texture to simulate translucent parts. With FO4 .nifs, that function is no longer supported.

 

Now the NiAlphaProperty only has limited functionality - It will either make the entire texture invisible (or selected parts of the texture (like a whole torn in a pants leg for instance or wear wholes in a jacket) or it will make the entire texture semi-transparent, by setting the Alpha Test Value to 128 (= 50% translucent) regardless of what level of translucency you set in your graphics editing program on the texture, And that setting also has the side effect of making the entire texture appear translucent on the mesh.

 

Lacy Lingerie is a good example of this, as some parts are less or more translucent / opaque than others, but the "old" method won't allow that, that's an all, half or nothing deal now.

 

However it seems Bugthesda gave us an option because the BSEffectShaderProperty and .bgem files, do allow for varying translucency on the same texture and the same mesh.

 

Have you tried using gimp2 and lassoing a area with the lasso tool that you want to add transparency to and then using the eraser (set to a lower power do not set it to 100 opacity or it's erase everything) and then erase that are so much then save as to overwrite the texture file and then in the nif go to node - attache property - NiAlphaProperty. This is how I do it for skyrim and if fallout 4 is the same then you will be able to do it this way as well.

See above, that method no longer works on FO4 .nifs, hence this thread I guess.

[Vitriks]

 

Lacy Lingerie is a good example of this, as some parts are less or more translucent / opaque than others, but the "old" method won't allow that, that's an all, half or nothing deal now.

 

However it seems Bugthesda gave us an option because the BSEffectShaderProperty and .bgem files, do allow for varying translucency on the same texture and the same mesh.

 

 

Does the alpha layer brightness settings determine the transparency in "BSEffectShaderProperty and .bgem" method? Or in Fallout 4 alpha layer works only in two modes?

 

And why there is no switch between BSEffectShaderProperty and  BSLightingShaderProperty in outfit studio?

[Perraine]

 

 

Lacy Lingerie is a good example of this, as some parts are less or more translucent / opaque than others, but the "old" method won't allow that, that's an all, half or nothing deal now.

 

However it seems Bugthesda gave us an option because the BSEffectShaderProperty and .bgem files, do allow for varying translucency on the same texture and the same mesh.

 

 

Does the alpha layer brightness settings determine the transparency in "BSEffectShaderProperty and .bgem" method? Or in Fallout 4 alpha layer works only in two modes?

 

And why there is no switch between BSEffectShaderProperty and  BSLightingShaderProperty in outfit studio?

 

 

From my own testing the alpha layer brightness in the texture has 0 effect on the way it displays. I use Paint.net, which has a "transparency" slider, which allows you to adjust the level of transparency when painting, or change the transparency level on lasso'd/selected areas but as long as you save the file in DXT5 the brightness level doesn't seem to matter.

 

And yeah, as far as i can tell, the NiAlphaProperty now only has two modes or essentially on or off.

 

As for Outfit Studio, it will happily display BSEffectShaderProperty, and you can select a .bgem file in the materials section on the mesh properties, but by default, if there isn't a lighting node already, Outfit Studio will add a BSLightingShaderProperty not an EffectShaderProperty, which is why you need Nifskope to change it first.

 

You'd have to ask the authors about adding support for adding BSEffectShaderProperty

 

[myuhinny]

@Perraine

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Guess the only fallout 4 files I will worry about will be the ones that I port to skyrim and SSE has been made using the same crap so I'm glad I never installed that so I guess I'll stick with the real skyrim for my skyrim playing.

[TheWilloughbian]

Sorry to resurrect an older thread, But it addresses just the topic I'm looking for information on. What I'm wondering is, will this BGEM thing work on hair. I figure if I can get a handle on this it would be the breakthrough I need to get hair looking much nicer in FO4.  I'm hoping some of the knowledgeable people here might point me in the right direction. There seems to be plenty of info on total transparency, but very little on semi-transparency. I tried following the steps above, however I don't think I did it right, as the hair doesn't show in game.

 

Thanks.

[TheWilloughbian]

Well I have the hair showing in game, but it glows like a light bulb.

[brat175]

It seem transparency also work with bgsm files and without need to add an alpha node, the basic example is pantyhose clothes. A lot use bgsm and they have transparency. After that, how they can add semi transparency stay a secret door for me currently. Hope I found the key. I can see the transparent level in paint.net but when I test by filling the alpha channel to 100% I see not difference in game. In fact just a little color change, but continue to have transparency.

Edited September 2, 2022 by brat175

[South8028]

2 hours ago, brat175 said:

It seem transparency also work with bgsm files and without need to add an alpha node, the basic example is pantyhose clothes. A lot use bgsm and they have transparency. After that, how they can add semi transparency stay a secret door for me currently. Hope I found the key. I can see the transparent level in paint.net but when I test by filling the alpha channel to 100% I see not difference in game. In fact just a little color change, but continue to have transparency.

fo4 uses 2013 dds formats for the bsLightingFx material. no channel alpha - dxt1 nvidea, alpha full transparency dxt3 nvidea, controlled transparency - dxt5 nvidea. And glass (mirror, liquid, marker, rays, effects). bsEffectFX material. It has many transparency settings. For n and s, intel bs5 textures are used.

[Indarello]

5 hours ago, brat175 said:

It seem transparency also work with bgsm files and without need to add an alpha node, the basic example is pantyhose clothes. A lot use bgsm and they have transparency. After that, how they can add semi transparency stay a secret door for me currently. Hope I found the key. I can see the transparent level in paint.net but when I test by filling the alpha channel to 100% I see not difference in game. In fact just a little color change, but continue to have transparency.

There is no way to make something partly transparent and partly fully not transparent. I tried, but the only way is to separate your model on 2 materials. I think this is engine limitation