SSE Criticism Thread

[DoctaSax]

We're starting this thread to keep the criticism of SSE out of the factual, modding-related threads.

 

Whyever would we do that? Well, it keeps interrupting the normal flow of other threads, and eats away at the morale of people interested in modding the game, which is after all what this site is for. Attacks on Bethesda in threads where people try to pool information and get some work done obviously hampers the modding, and negativity spreading all over the place doesn't do much to create or sustain the kind of enthousiasm and buzz that makes a modding scene thrive. (See: FO4.)

From now on, scoffing at the improvements (or lack thereof) of SSE over old Skyrim, and criticizing Bethesda for... well, all the usual stuff, has to happen in here. Posts of that nature that we notice in threads where they have no business being will be moved here. (No need to report them; we'll just keep an eye out.)

This thread will only be lightly moderated in terms of what is said, except of course in the case of personal insults between members or other serious infractions.

[27X]

Boo sux hate it

[Kakabishan]

I'm very disappointed. On one hand, yeah 64 bit engine (they just recompiled it to 64bit.. not a major task for them), then you have the laziest shite they pull off by "UPSCALING" the textures. Not even reworking or at least improving it by hand. They just upscaled it... The result is some pretty bad looking textures and at an added vram cost too. If you play at 4k you WILL notice how horrible the textures actually look.

Not to mention no bug fixes? They literally did nothing with the existing bugs and just sent it through the door. Oh well.  Maximal gain for minimum effort, and by minimum effort I mean bare bones minimum.

I'm really worried about the state of the next elder scrolls. They know automatically it will sell well so they will pull off the same laziness they have recently and that just worries me. I really hate to see one of my fave franchises get trodden to the ground like this, especially since the next elder scrolls isn't going to be out for a long time and I'll have very little time to even enjoy it fully. :/

[imafaget]

I'm very disappointed. On one hand, yeah 64 bit engine (they just recompiled it to 64bit.. not a major task for them), then you have the laziest shite they pull off by "UPSCALING" the textures. Not even reworking or at least improving it by hand. They just upscaled it... The result is some pretty bad looking textures and at an added vram cost too. If you play at 4k you WILL notice how horrible the textures actually look.

 

Not to mention no bug fixes? They literally did nothing with the existing bugs and just sent it through the door. Oh well.  Maximal gain for minimum effort, and by minimum effort I mean bare bones minimum.

 

I'm really worried about the state of the next elder scrolls. They know automatically it will sell well so they will pull off the same laziness they have recently and that just worries me. I really hate to see one of my fave franchises get trodden to the ground like this, especially since the next elder scrolls isn't going to be out for a long time and I'll have very little time to even enjoy it fully. :/

 

Heh yeah, I played it vanilla (only with unofficial patch) for a bit at 4K and wow the first thing I noticed was the really crappy textures lol. Sure the new lighting and weather effects are nice, but I'd rather wait for our great modders to bring the glory of 32 bit Skyrim over to 64 bit

[InKal]

In my opinion all this "remaster" was done for consoles which means that critisism is totally pointless no matter how justified and constructive because bethesda literally dosn't give two shits about any form of complaints from pc users while being praised for high heavens by console crowd. I mean Todd can cry all the way to the bank and thats all of it.

[spaßmeister123]

to be fair here, I didnt even know that SSE came out for PC aswell. I thought it was a console thing, which made sense to me because Vanilla Skyrim without mods looks like ASS on consoles. And the PC players of skyrim had mods to enhance their Visuals. It probably was just intended for Consoles when they first thought about it, since the Menu is still the same trash on PC. But then they probably were like "yeah sure lets release it on PC too".

So all in all, Im not really frustrated with the SSE. Since my heavily modded normal Skyrim will still be my go to till either the next TES comes out or the important mods got ported to SSE.

[Contessa]

Runs worse than Fallout 4 for me outside. Gotta tweak some things I suppose or wait for mod optimizations. 

[Hæretic]

I understand that bethesda hasn't overhauled any textures, meshes,game mechanics, scripts. They knew the textures and meshes get replaced with even better ones, so why invest the time. Not to change any game mechanics or scripts is just a good decision because it would have caused more trouble porting existing mods then it would have fixed anything. I mean the USSEP came out before the game was released so they knew all the old little bugs would get fixed anyways.

 

If the SSE runs more stable isn't really confirmed yet but it definitely looks like it. It is a very good thing If the game crashes less often because of too much pressure on the engine or scripts. So if this really is the case a fully modded SSE would be much more enjoyable than the old skyrim.

Plus we have some effects build into the engine we couldn't get from enb or modding like flow based water shader and Screen space reflections.

 

Also the fact that more clutter is spread around the world means we can replace that clutter with better-looking stuff without placing it in the world via a mod which reduces compatibility issues.

 

What annoys me the most about the SSE is that it draws even more attention away from FO4 modding. I only mod old skyrim myself but that will never change if no modder resources get released for FO4 I can work with. I think how good or bad of a decision the SSE really is we can say in a year or two ^^

 

[Dtech]

I understand that bethesda hasn't overhauled any textures, meshes,game mechanics, scripts. They knew the textures and meshes get replaced with even better ones, so why invest the time. Not to change any game mechanics or scripts is just a good decision because it would have caused more trouble porting existing mods then it would have fixed anything. I mean the USSEP came out before the game was released so they knew all the old little bugs would get fixed anyways.

 

If the SSE runs more stable isn't really confirmed yet but it definitely looks like it. It is a very good thing If the game crashes less often because of too much pressure on the engine or scripts. So if this really is the case a fully modded SSE would be much more enjoyable than the old skyrim.

Plus we have some effects build into the engine we couldn't get from enb or modding like flow based water shader and Screen space reflections.

 

Also the fact that more clutter is spread around the world means we can replace that clutter with better-looking stuff without placing it in the world via a mod which reduces compatibility issues.

 

 

What annoys me the most about the SSE is that it draws even more attention away from FO4 modding. I only mod old skyrim myself but that will never change if no modder resources get released for FO4 I can work with. I think how good or bad of a decision the SSE really is we can say in a year or two ^^

 

Regarding stability a test was done on the 2 clients, if you spawn 200 soldiers to fight it out on the classic client you will drop to 5/10 fps and will crash multiple times during the fight and only half of them will fight due to script limitations. If you repeat the same test on SE you lose about 5 fps from 60 and all 200 soldiers immediately begin brawling it out while you move around smoothly watching the chaos. I'm not implying this test is the be all and end all of stability tests, but you will certainly be able to create much larger and more ambitious mods on SE.

[dsfargeg222]

(they just recompiled it to 64bit.. not a major task for them)

They did a bit more than that. They wrote a new renderer for the engine (which admittedly was used for Fallout 4). The engine itself is a hell of a lot more stable as well.

 

Is it great value for money to buy it? Not really if you owned the game without DLC, most people got it for free though. I picked up legendary edition for pennies a couple of years back.

[Sceadugengan]

[...]

 

What annoys me the most about the SSE is that it draws even more attention away from FO4 modding. I only mod old skyrim myself but that will never change if no modder resources get released for FO4 I can work with. I think how good or bad of a decision the SSE really is we can say in a year or two ^^

 

I'm more into fantasy stuff like Skyrim, so I never bothered with FO4, but to me it seems like Skyrim is vastly more popular than FO4.

Now that Skyrim was pulled into the present from the previous decade and both games share pretty much the same technologies, I guess the FO4 modding scene will also gain more attention.

The tools and ressources created for one game should easily be useable or made useable for the other.

I suspect one reason for SSE was also the lack of interest in FO4 modding, so they released a remastered version of a successful game to not lose their customer's interest.

 

Regarding textures:

I assumed they had the high resolution textures from the very beginning and just scaled them down to match the requirements of consoles.

If they had to upcale them, that'd be pretty sad.

[prinyo]

Oh, come on people, this is the bitching thread and yet I see more bitching on the other threads than here.

So... let's fix this...

 

 

tl;dr

 

In short - they overdid a lot of the "atmospheric"  tweaks to an immersion breaking point. They drastically cheapened the world by adding cheap looking 2d vegetation sprites all over. The whole world looks way more like a cartoon and not in a good way. They made baffling changes to the interface, probably done by an intern who generally doesn't play games.

 

 

 

 

According to Steam I have 70 minutes in SSE and this will probably not change soon. While I completely appreciate all the benefits the 64bit DivX11 engine brings, at the moment I find (almost ) all their tweaks and additions annoying, illogical, stupid or simply bad.

My first hour in SSE consisted of one annoyance after another. Some of them were big, some were small, but even the small ones put together were enough for me to decide that I'm sticking to Oldrim for now. 

 

The biggest sin seems the added cheap vegetation. I play in 3D with Tridef and what they did with adding the new flat plants is inexcusable. I haven't seen such sprites in games newer than Oblivion. For the moment this is the deal-breaker for me. Happily this is fixable via mods.

 

The UI. The Esc opens the Quests... WTF? I know this is a small annoyance but it is so stupid that it drives me crazy. There are things in life that would not annoy as much if not for the realization how idiotic they are. This is one of those things. And a huge Quicksave button. WTF?  How is this a quick save if I need 3 steps in order to get there? What is the F5 for then? A Quicker save? Pure innovation... 

And where are my saves? I see... They think my character from the intro is not my character after that so they hid my saves behind an additional click. I guess they should ask the developers of Fallout 4 how to deal with multi character saves. Oh, wait... If only they did care about the usability of their product at all they already know how they could have done it. Too bad they don't...

 

And what is with all the unnatural smoke and fog. I spent 5 minutes trying to understand the smoke coming from the fires at the Whiterun gate. I gave up eventually and then remembered how did the water look when flowing in shallow places, especially at rocks, and realized that the person who made those effects have probably seen smoke and naturally flowing water only on drawings in children's books. 

 

As Angry Joe would say - they fucked it up. But no worries - the mods will fix it :-)

 

 

P.S. While I find it amusing that Skyrim is (are) two of the 15 most played games on Steam atm, seams Oldrim only benefits from this ( http://steamcharts.com/app/72850#1m )

[faky001]

Tbh only thing that had me worried was MOAR drama with 'who stole my mods' repeating all over again and ppl dropping mods support coz of it. I mean it was expected that everyone will jump at it right at start and go crazy with mod porting to bethesda net coz of consoles and shiet.

 

Over all just looking at trailers when SE was first announced i kinda expected it to be console thing coz main aspect from it was mods on console, if you saw those trailers it was obvious that mods can do it better (although stability is other thing).

I did play it for a while but considering that i took for granted things like SkyUI, etc. it just annoyed me and over all i didn't see much reason to play it. In few months it might be worth it to swap over once key mods are ported.

The most positive thing its that FO4 modding scene might profit from this coz its so to say same engine (some tricks that work it skyrim might help progress development of HDT in FO4 one can only dream).

 

So over all i already had Skyrim + all DLCs (which i bought at some steam sale) and it was totally unexpected to get SkyrimSE for free but then again it was minimum effort so if they didn't do that i would see it as rip off.

 

In the end its not really thumbs up or down something in middle i'd say.

[bjornk]

Nah, looks like fanboys took the "special" bait, I'll let them enjoy it. I no longer give a fuck about Bethesda and their shit, I know them quite well now.

[prinyo]

Rant 2 : CK

 

I was really hoping the new CK will be more like the FO4 one. But it is not. It still shows errors in popups and you need to chase the buttons with your mouse. It seems it does actually load files slower even than the original Skyrim CK. 

Hopefully it will not crash too much.

On the positive side it seems to show less errors than the previous. And there is a "Save and hotload" button that combined with the fixed Alt+Tab of the game might actually be a very nice feature and compensate for the slower loading times.

 

 

Added:

Very first impression about the stability. Installed Lords of Skyrim. Opened the esp in CK and saved. The result is CTD every time I trie to enter Dragonsreach. Haven't debugged yet, just seems a bit ironic :-)

[Captain Cobra]

SSE sux benis :-DDD

 

Big benis :-DDDD

[winny257]

sooner falls the moon onto the earth, before I only a micro bit of SSE download.   
I am finished with Bethesda!
not a cent more for this company! 

[bjornk]

They wrote a new renderer for the engine (which admittedly was used for Fallout 4).

Not really. They just used the one they made for FO4. Do you seriously believe that they'd spare a significant amount of development time just to give you something for free? Hell, no. They didn't even bother to fix the original game.

 

The engine itself is a hell of a lot more stable as well.

Isn't it a bit early to talk about "stability"? Have you played it with the same amount of mods as the original version? Presumably no.

 

Is it great value for money to buy it? Not really if you owned the game without DLC, most people got it for free though. I picked up legendary edition for pennies a couple of years back.

This "Special Edition" is nothing but a bait to trick people, especially modders, into switching to a new version of the game and to an editor which can create mods for consoles. Bethesda wants to monetize mods one way or another. If they can't sell mods, they can sell (console) games with the promise of mods. And who's going to make them? The PC modders who happily took the bait, of course. By the way, whoever considers this as an actual "remaster" is an idiot.

[prinyo]

Rant 3: Bethseda and the modders

 

http://www.darkfox127.co.uk/bulletin/no-console-support

[Citronella]

Not to mention no bug fixes? They literally did nothing with the existing bugs and just sent it through the door. Oh well.  Maximal gain for minimum effort, and by minimum effort I mean bare bones minimum.

 

You forgot to mention Audio quality downgrade (Which they will patch)

 

"MODDERS WILL FIX" Logic.

[Shiratama]

> Upscale textures so they eat all your vram for no discernable gain in visual fidelity

> Hide them with a bunch of shitty post-processing effects and a change in color palette

 

I got a refund for Fallout 4 because it's a terrible game and if the Cash Grab Edition hadn't been given to me for free there's no way I would have trusted Bethesda enough to even buy it.

[winny257]

 

They wrote a new renderer for the engine (which admittedly was used for Fallout 4).

Not really. They just used the one they made for FO4. Do you seriously believe that they'd spare a significant amount of development time just to give you something for free? Hell, no. They didn't even bother to fix the original game.

 

The engine itself is a hell of a lot more stable as well.

Isn't it a bit early to talk about "stability"? Have you played it with the same amount of mods as the original version? Presumably no.

 

Is it great value for money to buy it? Not really if you owned the game without DLC, most people got it for free though. I picked up legendary edition for pennies a couple of years back.

This "Special Edition" is nothing but a bait to trick people, especially modders, into switching to a new version of the game and to an editor which can create mods for consoles. Bethesda wants to monetize mods one way or another. If they can't sell mods, they can sell (console) games with the promise of mods. And who's going to make them? The PC modders who happily took the bait, of course. By the way, whoever considers this as an actual "remaster" is an idiot.

 

 

And very very many have Bethesda's Hook swallowed!

for me it is clear to the first, They want time flay because TES 6 (Not yet begun), Elder Scroll Community waits and waits.

To the second, They want to profit in the modding business, they have already it tried, already forgotten, It is not far back.

To the third, one is but Bethesda succeeded The Skyrim community to columns, Because very many the saliva dripping from the mouth, when they only hear the word Bethesda.

Even here on LL It is already so, Negative remarks about SSE or Bethesda Will be straightforward removed from the threads or moved! 

[garg]

 ^^^ Not sure what you think you would hope to gain from negative remarks or thoughts of Bethesda or SSE here on these forums anyhow!!

So with that said try to think of what we wouldn't have if there was never a Bethesda!

[garg]

> Upscale textures so they eat all your vram for no discernable gain in visual fidelity

> Hide them with a bunch of shitty post-processing effects and a change in color palette

 

I got a refund for Fallout 4 because it's a terrible game and if the Cash Grab Edition hadn't been given to me for free there's no way I would have trusted Bethesda enough to even buy it.

 

 So we have Fallout 4 bashers in this thread as well !!! Go play some other companies games! I did and I think I will stick with Bethesda's moddable games thanks!

[winny257]

 

> Upscale textures so they eat all your vram for no discernable gain in visual fidelity

> Hide them with a bunch of shitty post-processing effects and a change in color palette

 

I got a refund for Fallout 4 because it's a terrible game and if the Cash Grab Edition hadn't been given to me for free there's no way I would have trusted Bethesda enough to even buy it.

 

  I will stick with Bethesda's moddable games thanks!

 

 

Exactly THAT is it!   

Without mods goes it not, even if the game is absolute shit, the main thing MODS.       

For me is first then a game well, If this game does not require mods.

And there are plenty of them, especially the old games!