Jump to content

Recommended Posts

You're (lightly said) best off forgetting about HDT PE and HDT SMP for now.

 

First, there needs to be a new SKSE, then someone needs to fully update/recode HDT (PE or SMP) to work with the updated 64-bit Havok library the game now makes use of.

We don't even know if Hydrogen (HDT) is still active or cares about SSE, or if someone else has the source code, or if someone else is going to code something similar from scratch.

 

There'll probably be physics at some point, but no idea if it will be the HDT style and by who.

 

TL;DR it's more than just "updating the DLL real quick" and it might happen or might not happen.

Link to comment

Just out of curiosity, on a somewhat related note, since HDT and TBBP require XPMSE in old Skyrim, how are the skeletons in the new Skyrim ? When I played FO4 with CBBE I didn't need any custom skeletons, it worked fine, but of course I didn't use any sex animations because when I played it none of those sort of mods were available (maybe still are not available ? I don't know haven't checked in a while).

 

So following that, will we need a custom skeleton for HDT in SSE ? Or is the built-in skele good enough ?

 

Link to comment

Just out of curiosity, on a somewhat related note, since HDT and TBBP require XPMSE in old Skyrim, how are the skeletons in the new Skyrim ? When I played FO4 with CBBE I didn't need any custom skeletons, it worked fine, but of course I didn't use any sex animations because when I played it none of those sort of mods were available (maybe still are not available ? I don't know haven't checked in a while).

 

So following that, will we need a custom skeleton for HDT in SSE ? Or is the built-in skele good enough ?

 

The skeletons are the same as in the old Skyrim, so you need all the same things you needed in the old Skyrim.

(but the .hkx files of skeletons and animations need to be updated for 64-bit)

Link to comment

I don't have FO4 but can its physics be transplanted over to SSE instead of waiting for the mysterious HydrogensaysHDT to re-emerge?

 

Nope, FO4 uses a new type of integrated physics from Havok 2014. Skyrim is still on Havok 2010 and doesn't make use of said system.

Link to comment

I wish only HDT SMP would be used in SkyrimSE. Old HDT should become obsolete. HDT SMP is just more superior.

 

Anyway, to get HDT SMP, we must get these things:

  1. NifSkope with support of new SkyrimSE meshes
  2. Creation Kit
  3. SK[sE]2
  4. XPMSE
  5. Havok Tools

I hope I listed it all. So yeah, months without HDT. Let's hope SK[sE]will be ready before 2017.

Link to comment

I'm tired of gaming industry cooking old stuff all the time. Even new engine summons more stable gaming experience. There are whole lot of more meaningful things for Bethesda to work around than keeping modders busy at porting existed things to a product Out-Off-Fashion, especially things needed to be re-coded. 

Link to comment

I wish only HDT SMP would be used in SkyrimSE. Old HDT should become obsolete. HDT SMP is just more superior.

 

Anyway, to get HDT SMP, we must get these things:

  1. NifSkope with support of new SkyrimSE meshes
  2. Creation Kit
  3. SK[sE]2
  4. XPMSE
  5. Havok Tools

I hope I listed it all. So yeah, months without HDT. Let's hope SK[sE]will be ready before 2017.

 

SMP use the bullet engine so Havok Tools are not needed

Link to comment

I would think there is no real need to jump on the SSE band wagon, where some one just upped the image size of the texture's, and said now it is much, much better than New!

 

   I think for owners of the new Console's, it will finally let them play it the way we PC players have for years.

But I see little to just make a PC player, that has the game already, and has heavily modded it, to  jump at it.

 

   FO4 has been out for over a year i think, and some now, and it has not progressed very far. I would think SSE would take some time to catch hold, and be a viable alternative where SL, and all of the mods made for it are concerned.

 

   I would imagine you will get an onslaught of clothing mod's pretty soon, and if they can pump out, or do pump out a good solid CK you will get some quest's of some sort, and someone will port one of the body's from Skyrim, so you will get nudity.  [ You may also find that it will be time to drop another $1500 to $2000 cash or more, into another computer so you can actually run it on a 4K screen, and see the difference, a 1920, by 1080 screen is not going to cut it. ]

 

   But FNIS,SKSE. XPMSE, Nifskope, TesV_SSE_Editing, sound untilities, and ability to port animations to, and from Blender, and 3dMax, and of course, Sexlab, Zazanimations, More Nasty Critters,  Race menu, Hair style's, Make up corrections, probably some sort of save cleaner, and many other things will need to be in place, and then it might start to be capable of doing some some stuff, but that I would think, will be awhile off.

 

   As far as the vanilla game, Skyrim 32bit is just fine, in the PC version except for some of the buggy quests, but the unofficial patches have fixed most all of those. ( modders to the rescue again ) It is mostly only when you start to heavily mod it that you begin to see problems, the UN-dependable save game being the I think worst of those I personally think.

Link to comment

I'm honestly pretty bummed that SE doesn't come with physics like FO4 does. I know that it would have been more of an undertaking to use a newer version of Havok and could have caused a lot of bugs, but still. Practically every game that comes out now-a-days has clothing and hair physics in one form or another. It's jarring to see things in Skyrim be so stiff.

Link to comment
  • 3 weeks later...

I'm not sure if we will get HDT (PE or SMP). But if we get it, I think it will most probably be PE, since the source code is available in the corners of the web, and there are a lot of PE mods, which can be then converted. And I think that this would be overall more convenient than SMP, mainly because SMP didn't get really off the ground even for standard Skyrim, and (as far as I know) it's discontinued. There is a reason why not everyone jumped to SMP as soon as it got out, mainly that it is a big fiddle and has mayor problems with e.g. enb (which nearly everybody uses). But since both (PE and SMP) rely on SKSE, we have to wait for SK[sE]², and then see if anybody takes it up to make HDT. Maybe the original Author will surface again, maybe not, and if not, the version which is easier to convert and make compatible with other popular mods (enb, KS Hairdone HDT, ....) will most probably that what we get.

 

As always, there is a (more or less) simple way to make your voice heard in this things: learn how to contribute (in this case have a look at C++, get your head around physics simulations and some things like numerical simulations, matrix math and so on)

Link to comment

I would think there is no real need to jump on the SSE band wagon, where some one just upped the image size of the texture's, and said now it is much, much better than New!

 

   I think for owners of the new Console's, it will finally let them play it the way we PC players have for years.

But I see little to just make a PC player, that has the game already, and has heavily modded it, to  jump at it.

 

   FO4 has been out for over a year i think, and some now, and it has not progressed very far. I would think SSE would take some time to catch hold, and be a viable alternative where SL, and all of the mods made for it are concerned.

 

   I would imagine you will get an onslaught of clothing mod's pretty soon, and if they can pump out, or do pump out a good solid CK you will get some quest's of some sort, and someone will port one of the body's from Skyrim, so you will get nudity.  [ You may also find that it will be time to drop another $1500 to $2000 cash or more, into another computer so you can actually run it on a 4K screen, and see the difference, a 1920, by 1080 screen is not going to cut it. ]

 

   But FNIS,SKSE. XPMSE, Nifskope, TesV_SSE_Editing, sound untilities, and ability to port animations to, and from Blender, and 3dMax, and of course, Sexlab, Zazanimations, More Nasty Critters,  Race menu, Hair style's, Make up corrections, probably some sort of save cleaner, and many other things will need to be in place, and then it might start to be capable of doing some some stuff, but that I would think, will be awhile off.

 

   As far as the vanilla game, Skyrim 32bit is just fine, in the PC version except for some of the buggy quests, but the unofficial patches have fixed most all of those. ( modders to the rescue again ) It is mostly only when you start to heavily mod it that you begin to see problems, the UN-dependable save game being the I think worst of those I personally think.

 

Well, there's actually much more than just a brand new graphics option there, galgat.

 

1) Fallout 4 is still quite young in comparison towards Skyrim. Remember, Skyrim had the same issues for about 6 months to a year before we were able to unlock the majority of mods today. In addition, Fallout isn't as popular as the Elder Scrolls. Look at the Asian community and you'll see that the majority of mods are for the Elder Scrolls, not Fallout. And it doesn't help that Bethesda dropped the SE when the F4SE is starting to mature. That means that the Extender team had to focus on either and in this case, SE won out because of the popularity.

 

2) We already have some of the tools available in beta or alpha form such as FNIS, XPMSE, nifskope, TES5Edit and also Bethesda's own Havok animation conversion tool. So it'll be quite some time before we can actually start unlocking the potential of the SE engine and once we do, you'll see the same benefits moving onto the Fallout 4 scene.

 

3) Vanilla game engine is horrible, there is no other way to say it. For an engine developed from 2007, it is horribly optimised for the PC. It still uses single-threaded operations when multi-threading flags were available in the 'uncustomised' version of it. Memory allocation is laughable with an 'optimal' block of 256MB each WAY instead of the SE way of the available free allocation. There are still bad flags around it but it isn't because once you mod it, it breaks hard. So either way, the newer engine of SE is a lot more flexible compared to the old but still needs tinkering.

Link to comment

 

 

smp is not havok

(Probably a stupid question, but)

Did SMP rely on SKSE at all?

Sure it does. Its a skse plugin xD it's mesh baseball physics on bullet library

 

 

While it clearly does, I just took a look at the HDT PE code circa 2014, all it really appears to rely on SKSE for is actually injecting the DLL.

All the API Hooks seem to be self contained.

It seems to have several files copied from SKSE, notably the layout of the Net Immerse stuff, but it's about as light a dependency as it could have.

 

Not that it would be easy to get working much like SKSE itself, it relies on hooking the games API and having reverse engineered several of the games internal structures. It would certainly be easier for the original author to get it working, rather than someone trying to pick it up. And if the original author relied on SKSE for the reverse engineering, it would probably be easier to wait for the SKSE team to do it again.

 

Looking at the code for the body physics what it appears to do is create physics objects that shadow bone positions, then updates the breast and butt bones with the results of the physics calculation. If I didn't miss something that means it's pretty much running outside the game itself so you could build a similar solution using any physics engine you wanted, so I don't think the havok version is relevant.

Link to comment

Making hdt pe compatible shouldnt be as difficult once skse is out and supporting needed hooks.. HydrogensaysHDT is still somewhere around, smp were updated this spring as well as memoryextender.. I think smp will make it, mainly for the reason bullet is still free and havok content tools are not available

Link to comment

Lets see...

 

Nif Conversion tools - Done (thanks to Ousinus and others for making and or updating it)

Havok HKX conversion tool - Done (simple exe that comes in the tools folder with SSE's CK, grab the bat file from nexus and it will run in sub folders and is pretty damn easy).

SKSE64 - Team has already showed a base shot of it running in SSE, but the first end user available build is probably a month or more off (as they have to figure out what is what in the new old engine that SSE is based on... its actually older then FO4's engine and newer then Skyrim's 32bit engine... probably cause Beth built it before they built FO4, they just wanted to launch FO4 when they did -vs- a 64bit skyrim).

Texture files - Same old Skyrim DXT1, DXT5, and Raw RGB DDS formats.

 

Most Skyrim mods that don't require the script extender add-on will run with little effort on SSE... Unfortunately the major mods that PC users are used to rely on the script extender.

Things that rely on SKSE: SkyUI (note: version 2.2 works somewhat without skse for player inventory, and menu's), Racemenu (parts of it work without SKSE you have to use the loose files version though, mainly just the tweaks to the User interface, but everything else in RM relies on SKSE), MCM ( some mods are being reworked to run without MCM support and use spell books to bring up the config screens in game... a big Pita config wise), HDT (Just not going to happen until the script extender gets finished so we can get some hooks into the havok part of the game engine), NiOverirde (Racemenu Morphs, HDT High Heel replacements, Pregnancy belly, breast, and butt growth... etc Those all require NiOverirde which is something Expired added in the later versions of SKSE... Lets hope it is available in the first builds of SKSE64).

 

And there is not telling if Beth is going to release updates to the game (they probably will). Cause every time Beth Updates the game exe... The SKSE team has to figure out what Beth Broke and then release an updated version of the script extender.

 

So SSE is kinda Pro's and Con's right now....

Link to comment

I would think there is no real need to jump on the SSE band wagon, where some one just upped the image size of the texture's, and said now it is much, much better than New!

 

   I think for owners of the new Console's, it will finally let them play it the way we PC players have for years.

But I see little to just make a PC player, that has the game already, and has heavily modded it, to  jump at it.

 

   FO4 has been out for over a year i think, and some now, and it has not progressed very far. I would think SSE would take some time to catch hold, and be a viable alternative where SL, and all of the mods made for it are concerned.

 

   I would imagine you will get an onslaught of clothing mod's pretty soon, and if they can pump out, or do pump out a good solid CK you will get some quest's of some sort, and someone will port one of the body's from Skyrim, so you will get nudity.  [ You may also find that it will be time to drop another $1500 to $2000 cash or more, into another computer so you can actually run it on a 4K screen, and see the difference, a 1920, by 1080 screen is not going to cut it. ]

 

   But FNIS,SKSE. XPMSE, Nifskope, TesV_SSE_Editing, sound untilities, and ability to port animations to, and from Blender, and 3dMax, and of course, Sexlab, Zazanimations, More Nasty Critters,  Race menu, Hair style's, Make up corrections, probably some sort of save cleaner, and many other things will need to be in place, and then it might start to be capable of doing some some stuff, but that I would think, will be awhile off.

 

   As far as the vanilla game, Skyrim 32bit is just fine, in the PC version except for some of the buggy quests, but the unofficial patches have fixed most all of those. ( modders to the rescue again ) It is mostly only when you start to heavily mod it that you begin to see problems, the UN-dependable save game being the I think worst of those I personally think.

 

much of this agree with and it is almost a month old post so baring this in mind

 

I think you are right the immediate benefits of Newrim are for consoles and mores so for Xbone then PS4. However I think the future benefits will favour PC users more.

 

There in just shy of a month we have seen a lot on this list added to Newrim

 

FNIS, XPMSE, tesv edit we are seeing animations added hair packs, eye packs, eyebrow packs we already have a newrim version of the unofficial patch. BringtheNoice also listed a whole slew of tools that are now working for SSE. We a missing SKSE and other tools and mods but what I think this shows is that the modding community is well healthy for Newrim. It hasn't yet been a month and we already have most of the tools needed. I might also add that many mod authors have gone to the pre MCM days and are using spells and books to give players configurable mods.

 

This said you are still correct, oldrim + mods will give a getting experience than newrim in all ways but one, newrim is more stable it is less prone to crashes. This is the reason I feel newrim will give pc gamers better long term benefits, building a modded game on a 64 bit foundation eliminates a whole slew of tweaks, fixes and workarounds that were required to make 32bit oldrim stable.  Right now oldrim hasn't been surpassed and it may never be but we are seeing consistent updates about SK64 and vital modes like XPMSE and FNIS mods are in game already. I am willing to bet that rewrim will surpass oldrim in the future lets ee how things are in nov 2017. We should remember that it took a while for oldrim to get really great. The nice thing about newrim is it appears to have invigorated a lot of mod authors again. in less than a month the nexus has over 3100 mods for newrim that is a great start. At this rate in less than a year Newrim will have over half as many mods as 5 year old Oldrim based on their current rate of growth for both games.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. For more information, see our Privacy Policy & Terms of Use