Tannin42 - the new head developer of NMM

[prinyo]

 

 

 

Call me relieved. I totally wouldn't mind them putting MO's virtualization hackwork into NMM as a plugin or extension, but I am glad to hear that they have no plans forcing it down the throats of current NMM users who want to keep things simple and straightforward.

 

 

 

Which NMM version are you using?

[Kimy]

 

 

 

 

Call me relieved. I totally wouldn't mind them putting MO's virtualization hackwork into NMM as a plugin or extension, but I am glad to hear that they have no plans forcing it down the throats of current NMM users who want to keep things simple and straightforward.

 

 

 

Which NMM version are you using?

 

 

The newest.

[tallman]

I like to imagine that this has no secret blackmails, hidden agendas, takeovers, or evil intentions; and with that view in mind, I think this could turn out to be some of the best news in a while.

[Kimy]

I like to imagine that this has no secret blackmails, hidden agendas, takeovers, or evil intentions; and with that view in mind, I think this could turn out to be some of the best news in a while.

 

Tbh, while I love a good conspiracy theory as much as anyone, I can't see why an organization already controlling the largest part of the market share would try to eliminate a niche product that's used by a comparatively small group of enthusiasts. What would they gain by intentionally destroying a product that doesn't really hurt them? Mind you that while LL is pretty split on MO and NMM usage, on Nexus (which has a bit more traffic than we do), it's overwhelmingly NMM.

[DoctaSax]

People are going to want it to be more like MO and others are going to want it to be more like NMM. There is no win out of this for either sides. It was best to leave it the way it was and just let Tannin give someone else permission to take MO over who has the time and energy to do it. Or let someone with the time and energy collaborate. But there are other alternative solutions for mod managers, it's just that there isn't nothing else out there like MO, otherwise we would of migrated over to that instead.

 

The current versions of both NMM and MO will stick around, and Tannin already has given this permission from the very start.

[tallman]

 

I like to imagine that this has no secret blackmails, hidden agendas, takeovers, or evil intentions; and with that view in mind, I think this could turn out to be some of the best news in a while.

 

Tbh, while I love a good conspiracy theory as much as anyone, I can't see why an organization already controlling the largest part of the market share would try to eliminate a niche product that's used by a comparatively small group of enthusiasts. What would they gain by intentionally destroying a product that doesn't really hurt them? Mind you that while LL is pretty split on MO and NMM usage, on Nexus (which has a bit more traffic than we do), it's overwhelmingly NMM.

 

 

Yeah, and I think that, if for some reason this doesn't work out, it won't be because of some sinister plot. Its going to be because of something like creative control.  People also seem to be freaking out over the posts Tannin made where he says the new manager wont have the MO's (superior) vfs, and that it will be different. Yeah, anything else would be lunacy, this guy is now in charge of making mods accessible to EVERYONE on nexus through the software he's about to pioneer. It should be expected that his focus is gonna shift. However, I do believe he will make a great modding tool, in the end. 

 

(Also he did mention in one of the posts that he wants to implement the MO vfs back in. This new manager is after all, supposed to be modular.)

[prinyo]

I need to say his behavior on the Nexus forums is a refreshing change for Nexus. It is cool watching him address the concerns people have directly and logically, without been condescending, without trying any mind tricks and shady forum tactics. It feels like he knows what he is doing and wants to do. 

And it gives me hope that the next mod manager will indeed try to address the different ways people want to mod their games as he promised in one of his posts.

[27X]

 

Well, the first piece of bad news is already here it seems. 

So on one hand you have MO users who hope the virtualization will exist in the new tool. On the other the advanced NMM users who want a stable manager that works the way 0.56.1 does. One thing those 2 groups have in common - they hate the way NMM currently works. 

And both will be unhappy when reading this post by Tannin from this morning:

 

"The default setting will probably work similar to what NMM is doing currently, using symlinks or hardlinks into the game directory because this is simply more robust and doesn't upset antivirus tools as much"

 

 

 

 

And here is an earlier post to put things into perspective.

 

 https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/4940905-big-changes-for-the-nexus-mod-manager-and-the-introduction-of-tannin42-our-new-head-of-nmm-development/?p=43229950

 

"It's no rebranded MO, it's a fresh start. "Controversial" MO features like the virtual filesystem may exist as options / extensions but they will not be defaults or requirements.

With MO I was happy to develop a tool that would only appeal to a small crowd. It was always intended to be complement the existing solutions like OBMM/NMM or wrye bash, not to replace them.

Now we're writing a modding tool for all Nexus users so obviously the approach will be different. I'm not ignorant of the problems with MO but with MO I had one target audience, now it's a different one.

We try to make the new mod manager attractive to advanced & MO users through extensibility, not by doing the same again and hoping the majority of users will suddenly like it better."

 

 

Added

Well, I added my point of view here.

 

Call me relieved. I totally wouldn't mind them putting MO's virtualization hackwork into NMM as a plugin or extension, but I am glad to hear that they have no plans forcing it down the throats of current NMM users who want to keep things simple and straightforward.

 

 

 

There's nothing simple about an uninstaller that doesn't work right, or sometimes at all.

[I'm The Wabbit]

That new mod manager better have a lot of the features Mod Organizer had. If not, then I guess no more Bethesda modding for me.

[Kakabishan]

Loverslab really has a strong animosity towards anything nexus related and somehow i think it sorta clouds their judgement. This only looks like a plus since there won't be two different alternatives to a mod managing tool. If tannin can rework the NMM to be like MO but even better, then i'm all for it. Having two mod managing tools sorta divides support and help.

Eitherway, I'll be using MO still but will be keeping a close watch on any progress.

[Guest]

Loverslab really has a strong animosity towards anything nexus related and somehow i think it sorta clouds their judgement. This only looks like a plus since there won't be two different alternatives to a mod managing tool. If tannin can rework the NMM to be like MO but even better, then i'm all for it. Having two mod managing tools sorta divides support and help.

 

Eitherway, I'll be using MO still but will be keeping a close watch on any progress.

 

I like your point, that I totally share.

[Guest enip]

I don't because if we all resorted to sticking to one thing that did it all, it would suck. Why else do we choose PC over a console system? Would you like there to be a system that is a mixture of console and PC? Steam Machine? No thanks. D0's back was against the wall with NMM for too long and found the perfect opportunity to make his rival an ally instead. Smart, yes, unfortunate for us MO users. Put it this way, if NMM wasn't doing as bad as it is, D0 wouldn't have cared to hire Tannin. Tannin would of stopped updating MO regardless because of his situation, but there were other alternatives he could of made before becomming a Nexus trooper. So now we wait for someone with the proper skills who can take MO and keep upgrading it. Make it work properly for Fallout 4 and Skyrim Remaster.

[Guest]

I don't because if we all resorted to sticking to one thing that did it all, it would suck. Why else do we choose PC over a console system? Would you like there to be a system that is a mixture of console and PC? Steam Machine? No thanks. D0's back was against the wall with NMM for too long and found the perfect opportunity to make his rival an ally instead. Smart, yes, unfortunate for us MO users. Put it this way, if NMM wasn't doing as bad as it is, D0 wouldn't have cared to hire Tannin. Tannin would of stopped updating MO regardless because of his situation, but there were other alternatives he could of made before becomming a Nexus trooper. So now we wait for someone with the proper skills who can take MO and keep upgrading it. Make it work properly for Fallout 4 and Skyrim Remaster.

 

I do not agree (politely) with your thoughts.

 

Dark0ne is a business man. (Like me.)

And he tries to get the best.

 

(not just hypotheses, not facts.)

 

He was well aware that NMM was not a good mod manager. Really old and bad compared to the competition.

He had an opportunity (money available) to hire the probably best one on the market.

 

And he did it.

 

 

Will Dark0ne impose the shittiness? Nope. It will not make money by doing it.

So, I am expecting (my forecast, not proven, just hypothesis) a way better NMM in a few months.

 

Will this destroy competition? The "competition" with MO for sure. But it is not really the key to this act.

As a business man, you try to have the best "product", with the best resources to build it.

[carnifex]

One thing I'll never understand is people claiming NMM is easier than MO. MO has made me a better, more savvy mod user in literally a couple days since I've adopted it thanks to how accessible and easy to understand its power features are. I can't count the number of mod conflicts which would have taken me hours to figure out in NMM that I've solved in fifteen minutes or less in MO by simply checking which mod overrides which and then switching them around with a simple drag&drop - how is that not the easiest modding tool ever?

[27X]

 

I don't because if we all resorted to sticking to one thing that did it all, it would suck. Why else do we choose PC over a console system? Would you like there to be a system that is a mixture of console and PC? Steam Machine? No thanks. D0's back was against the wall with NMM for too long and found the perfect opportunity to make his rival an ally instead. Smart, yes, unfortunate for us MO users. Put it this way, if NMM wasn't doing as bad as it is, D0 wouldn't have cared to hire Tannin. Tannin would of stopped updating MO regardless because of his situation, but there were other alternatives he could of made before becomming a Nexus trooper. So now we wait for someone with the proper skills who can take MO and keep upgrading it. Make it work properly for Fallout 4 and Skyrim Remaster.

 

I do not agree (politely) with your thoughts.

 

Dark0ne is a business man. (Like me.)

And he tries to get the best.

 

(not just hypotheses, not facts.)

 

He was well aware that NMM was not a good mod manager. Really old and bad compared to the competition.

He had an opportunity (money available) to hire the probably best one on the market.

 

And he did it.

 

 

Will Dark0ne impose the shittiness? Nope. It will not make money by doing it.

So, I am expecting (my forecast, not proven, just hypothesis) a way better NMM in a few months.

 

Will this destroy competition? The "competition" with MO for sure. But it is not really the key to this act.

As a business man, you try to have the best "product", with the best resources to build it.

 

 

That's a great theory, but Dark0ne is entirely a political animal, not just a "businessman". Placing absolute faith in his completely non-existent objectivity is in a word, "dumb". Because he is not objective, at all, and has never claimed to be, moreover; has in the past made staffing and policy decisions that have quite bit him in the ass, not to mention the users these decisions affect.

 

While it isn't the end of the world by any stretch, it's not necessarily a net positive either.

[Kakabishan]

@CPU

Agreed, and I don't understand why people think "OH MOAR COMPETITION MEANS BETTER PRODUCTZZZZ!!" in this case. Tannin was hardly getting paid and had very little time for MO. Now that he's employed by Robin, he can get paid AND dedicate more time on NMM, so its win win for everyone.

@carnifex

People were used to NMM before MO came along and were a bit reluctant to change. Plus i guess the advanced functionality of it made people a bit adamant to pick up and learn on the intricacies of it. I was like that, I was a bit adamant of change and using MO, until I pushed myself and dedicated just a full day of learning how to use MO, looking at tutorials etc, and I have to say it was worth it -- albeit a bit time consuming.

[axlotldestroyer]

So with Tannin on their dev team they hope to create something that is the best of both NMM and MO . Only way i see them doing that is by using the code fragments of both and by alllowing users to decide how the new manager handles mods either the way NMM does now or the way we who use MO like it which by the by is far superior.

[myuhinny]

I use a old old version of NMM that never gets updated and never goes online. I never used MO and making NMM the same way will not make me upgrade it and I never needed the bells and whistles they kept jamming into it and at the same time constantly breaking things.

[Rayblue]

^

Why do you need to sound edgy? Unless you're a masochist who doesn't mind about weeding through your Data directory to move or delete files, or redownloading the whole game in a whole day if you needed a new start. This is why such tools like mod managers were made.

[Captain Cobra]

It's not too late to convert to Wrye Bash, heathens.

[PsychoMachina]

<snip>

 

Will this destroy competition? The "competition" with MO for sure. But it is not really the key to this act.

As a business man, you try to have the best "product", with the best resources to build it.

 

 

It's also common practice for businesses to merge with their competitors or buy-out and absorb smaller competitors.  Less competition reduces the need to make a top-notch, competitive product because the consumer has fewer options, fewer products to compare, which eventually leads to the consumer becoming content (whether they like it or not) with whatever that business offers them.

 

Now that Tannin has dropped MO and is devoted to making a better NMM, the only way to objectively state that the new mod manager is the  'better product' is to hope that someone with the talent and vision take over MO and improve it so that the community can make a comparison.

 

 

It's not too late to convert to Wrye Bash, heathens.

 

Integrate Wrye Bash with the new NMM/MO manager and it will truly be a win-win for everyone.

 

(don't hit me)

[Rebel Marauder]

Loverslab really has a strong animosity towards anything nexus related and somehow i think it sorta clouds their judgement. This only looks like a plus since there won't be two different alternatives to a mod managing tool. If tannin can rework the NMM to be like MO but even better, then i'm all for it. Having two mod managing tools sorta divides support and help.

 

Eitherway, I'll be using MO still but will be keeping a close watch on any progress.

 

I am in agreement with this statement also, I don't personally use MO but I know that a lot of people do and that's fine, it is after all a personal choice what you choose to do, I have tried MO and I wasn't keen on the whole interface of it, it did not lend itself well in that respect

The aforementioned comment is my personal opinion on my time with MO albeit limited because I was unhappy with it and the interface I was presented with, if you feel the need to correct me on this by all means do so, but please refrain from making derogatory comments or trying to belittle me because of this as that will simply devalue your argument to be null and void.

 

 

There was in my eyes a double layer with MO which if all your seeking is "instant simplicity" is simply getting in the way and stopping so many people from using it because it left some people feeling alienated.

 

I will happily switch to the new mod manager Tannin makes if it carries over the ideas of virtualization like MO had but with singular layers for increased simplicity and ease of use for the masses, BUT with the added option of increasing it to "double layers or more" for those who require or want the extra features that MO had and NMM lacked.

[I'm The Wabbit]

Loverslab really has a strong animosity towards anything nexus related and somehow i think it sorta clouds their judgement. This only looks like a plus since there won't be two different alternatives to a mod managing tool. If tannin can rework the NMM to be like MO but even better, then i'm all for it. Having two mod managing tools sorta divides support and help.

 

Eitherway, I'll be using MO still but will be keeping a close watch on any progress.

 

If the poeple on nexus didn't act like assholes and were helpful, I wouldn't hate them. Then again, they do act like assholes.

[Guest]

 

If the poeple on nexus didn't act like assholes and were helpful, I wouldn't hate them. Then again, they do act like assholes.

 

 

Also people on LoversLab are very often assholes.

We are just a little bit more tolerant.

[I'm The Wabbit]

 

 

If the poeple on nexus didn't act like assholes and were helpful, I wouldn't hate them. Then again, they do act like assholes.

 

 

Also people on LoversLab are very often assholes.

We are just a little bit more tolerant.

 

 

If I compare you guys and nexus, you guys are pretty much "SAINTS" compared to them.