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Slavery Mods and Devious x.x.x.x Requirements (rant)


dinomagick

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Only I finding this rant about player slavery req, ironic?

Pretty sure it's the narrow vision of what 'slavery' is that's the beef.  I know for a fact the majority of 'slavery' mods hosted at LL demonstrate a massive lack of knowledge as to what real BDSM really is.  To be honest they reflect a 'hentai mentality' which is as cool as it is delusional.  What's really sad is I've been internet 'corrected' for pointing this out before.  Yeah, no shit.  LL mods are an accurate representation of the BDSM scene, or at least that's what some of these retards think.

 

Speaking for myself, the mods that are popular make the base game unplayable and for the majority of them there is no way to 'turn them off'.  Installing and activating then means regular game play is second thought.  To me the main objective is getting the 'slave' shit forcibly equipped on my character removed so I can play the damn game.  For others having what equates to having cursed items that inhibit spell casting, combat and movement forcibly equipped on them is 'the shit'.  To each their own but unfortunately the 'ha-ha get out of THAT' mod mentality holds the field.

 

It is like the idea of consensual erotic slavery is an alien concept at LL.  Frankly, the vast mjority of LL slavery mods are a pathetic representation of ther genre and they don't do BDSM any justice.  Mostly they are a sad juvenile parody.

 

BUT let them be stupid and wrong...and don't download their bullshit.

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I can agree with that but you have to admit DD has a tendency to lose animations where the Armbringer is not animated with the body.An your arms are cut off and are nub ends when you try to melee or move your arms around.An i know how annoying it is when the first mod added to the characters body is an Armbringer.It would be better if the first animation was hands tied in front of them.Then worked up to an Armbringer over 10 levels later or something.Let the player skill up to take off these types of devices.

 

Plus the annoying issue that 1.You cant make a key to get out of what is on you.An 2 you have a 0% chance to steal a key.Which is really really annoying.I would think Stats would come into play on this issue but they do not.Like you need lockpicking skills of 10 to 20 to get out of most issues.

 

So a lot of things are in need of fixing an for me APPARENTLY i still cant play skyrim due to 5 of the modders using older versions of each mod an nothing is compatible right now.An i found another issue with MoreNastyCritters.I am like 98% Sure he mixed the files from the load order from DG and DB.An now the game wont run right.it freezes while walking.An i have to close the game an relaunch it an it continuously does this.So you cant progress.

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To me the main objective is getting the 'slave' shit forcibly equipped on my character removed so I can play the damn game.  For others having what equates to having cursed items that inhibit spell casting, combat and movement forcibly equipped on them is 'the shit'.  To each their own but unfortunately the 'ha-ha get out of THAT' mod mentality holds the field.

I agree with that Kendo.   I'm not into a 'hentai' style consenting-slavery and the forcing to wear crap or blind or hobbled in some way, is burdensome. 

 

I'm looking for a little 'immersiveness' I guess... No vinyl rubber armbinder, ball gag, BDSM, forced animations...etc...etc...

 

It is the 'forcing' of the defaults of the requirements like DD and DI that cause most of the issues.  Changing the defaults or attempting to restrict certain Animations or features causes freezing and CTDs.  

 

I can agree with that but you have to admit DD has a tendency to lose animations where the Armbringer is not animated with the body.An your arms are cut off and are nub ends when you try to melee or move your arms around.An i know how annoying it is when the first mod added to the characters body is an Armbringer.It would be better if the first animation was hands tied in front of them.Then worked up to an Armbringer over 10 levels later or something.Let the player skill up to take off these types of devices.

 

Maybe some sort of 'soft' requirement?  Or, maybe a 'DD Framework' type mod?   

 

I am looking at learning more about modding and how SD+ is made and Defeat, plus all the DAs DDx, DI, DS... mods... (well, I at least pulled them up in Notepad++ so far)... already, just doing that, tons and tons of duplicates just between the requirements.  some with small variations that just from my very basic knowledge of coding, duplication's across several different sources is never a good thing, but I am learning.... 

 

After taking a look at Simple Slavery it is good start, but is basically just a 'front end' to other Slave mods that then hit the 'Requirement Cascade' down the tubes...

 

With the current releases and dependencies on 'old' requirements that haven't been updated in years, it is hard to see how many other sex mods are able to run in tandem with any of the current versions of SD+ and all the requirements and sub-requirements with their own requirements. 

 

From looking at the base code and now even a little bit through Tes5edit, I dont really see that SD+ is causing many of the problems, its the 'cascade of dependencies' and conflicts with Defeat, DA, AFT and mods like Creature Features, SOS. 

 

WarSunGames

 

 

So a lot of things are in need of fixing an for me APPARENTLY i still cant play skyrim due to 5 of the modders using older versions of each mod an nothing is compatible right now.An i found another issue with MoreNastyCritters.I am like 98% Sure he mixed the files from the load order from DG and DB.An now the game wont run right.it freezes while walking.An i have to close the game an relaunch it an it continuously does this.So you cant progress.

 

Maybe that is what I will do first, find conflicts and list them.

 

Basically, Warsun, you summed up a lot of the same issues.

 

 

 

For me, I would like Slavery to be a 'part' of my Skyrim Game, not fully controlling it.  And that will be my focus, though I have to 'learn' first and find time... (which I won't even get into that).  CC

 

 

 

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For me, I would like Slavery to be a 'part' of my Skyrim Game, not fully controlling it.  And that will be my focus, though I have to 'learn' first and find time... (which I won't even get into that).  CC

I'm working on something based on the Pet Collar mod.  It's hit a wall because there is scripting I can't do and Yurik is pretty busy.  One day we'll have a consensual erotic slavery mod.

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Only I finding this rant about player slavery req, ironic?

Pretty sure it's the narrow vision of what 'slavery' is that's the beef.  I know for a fact the majority of 'slavery' mods hosted at LL demonstrate a massive lack of knowledge as to what real BDSM really is.  To be honest they reflect a 'hentai mentality' which is as cool as it is delusional.  What's really sad is I've been internet 'corrected' for pointing this out before.  Yeah, no shit.  LL mods are an accurate representation of the BDSM scene, or at least that's what some of these retards think.

 

Speaking for myself, the mods that are popular make the base game unplayable and for the majority of them there is no way to 'turn them off'.  Installing and activating then means regular game play is second thought.  To me the main objective is getting the 'slave' shit forcibly equipped on my character removed so I can play the damn game.  For others having what equates to having cursed items that inhibit spell casting, combat and movement forcibly equipped on them is 'the shit'.  To each their own but unfortunately the 'ha-ha get out of THAT' mod mentality holds the field.

 

It is like the idea of consensual erotic slavery is an alien concept at LL.  Frankly, the vast mjority of LL slavery mods are a pathetic representation of ther genre and they don't do BDSM any justice.  Mostly they are a sad juvenile parody.

 

BUT let them be stupid and wrong...and don't download their bullshit.

 

I admit, i know little to nothing about real life bdsm, i could imagine that there is more than one way to do/enjoy this, maybe even more than one scene, i don't know.

I guess, trapped in rubber is the closest mod here to this theme. But most slavery mods like Slaverun or SD+ aren't about consensual slavery (you can agree, but that's all). It's more like beeing captured by ISIS or something, another topic where my knowledge is limited, but i wouldn't expect a "No, i don't want that" is a realistic option there. Most likely they don't use chastity belts, but they also don't fight Dragons with magic, so... 

 

I can understand that especially many of those who have some experience in RL want to have more mods whitch fits into consensual things, and more mods are always fine! But i don't see how "Instead of killing you right now i'll keep you as a slave and maybe kill you later." becomes to "Do nothing what the slave doesn't like." in SD+ for example. That's just another mod.

 

And again, i'm not sure about what "majority of popular mods" we're talking about. Afaik cursed loot is pretty popular, and there you can turn pretty much everything off you don't like. There ARE bugs in things triggering anyways, that's a valid point nobody disagrees. But bugs are bugs, not any kind of a mentality of a modder.

In the new Captured dreams everything IS turned off by default, you have to activate the things of your fewest dislike manually. Didn't play there very far yet, in the old version pretty much everything was about wearing devices, aye. CD without any DD would be pretty empty.

 

For myself, i can't see why anybody plays ME because it breaks fucking everything for me including it's own quests and stuff, but somehow others can live with that, so i just let it be and don't play it. There seem to be people who enjoy playing it, however they do that. But saying ppl are stupid because they make a mod for a fantasy game in a certain way... wearing a skimpy armor for fighting and even worse, with physics attached to a bra of steel, is what i'd consider unrealistic and stupid, but i have fun doing it anyways.

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On the topic of consensual BDSM, I am trying to lay the foundation to do just that in SD+.

 

What I want to do is to provide a range of options from the 'captured by hostile bandits and used as a sex slave' to 'voluntary submission to Lydia since she is so bossy anyway'. SD+ is already providing both options (hostile enslavement and follower as master) as well as a way to go from one to the other (sort of a Stockholm syndrome if you want to play it that way) but what it is sorely lacking is credible tasks and dialogue topics for both types of situation.

 

Which brings me to another point about slavery mods. Replay value.

 

To model a rich experience, especially with consensual submission, I have to write detailed scenes and tasks for the player. This is better done with unique NPCs (like Captured Dreams for example). The problem here is that once you are done with that NPC, there is nowhere to go. 

 

On the other end of the spectrum, you have interactions with any NPC out there, which leads to shallow and generic experiences. This is where SD+ is right now and I am trying to move the needle away from this side of the spectrum and closer to the other side.

 

My problem lately is that I have been running into many issues with required mods interactions, my own mistakes from earlier versions I had to rewrite and the scripting engine itself. Solving these issues takes a lot of testing and a lot of time away from writing more satisfying interactions between master and player.

 

These frameworks are necessary though. As someone said above, I could use vanilla assets (and at the beginning, SD+ did) but the amount of code needed on top of these assets to enforce any kind of constraints amounts to writing what DD already provides. Most people see DD as 'slick leather armbinders and gagballs' but I see it as a foundation for more unique devices. The iron collar and shackles in SD+ are using the DD framework to enforce constraints, not that you would really notice at first glance. I am using DD in Stories for milking devices and I will use it soon to allow the player to play as a dwemer sexbot with interchangeable parts and to model parasites that can only be removed under certain conditions. 

 

It would be too much work for me to write unique code to manage constraints in Stories, and the same unique code to manage similar constraints in SD+ and in Parasites, etc... 

 

As for credible BDSM vs hentai caricature, I admit I have more experience with the latter than the former. But I also had very interesting chats in private messages with people familiar with a real BDSM experience and provided me useful ideas and insights to improve SD+. These ideas will be implemented eventually if I can get a break from sorting out FNIS animation override issues or faction interactions or random CTDs due to obscure mod interactions.

 

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On the topic of consensual BDSM, I am trying to lay the foundation to do just that in SD+.

 

That would be awesome.

 

I'm working on something along the same lines using Pet Collar as a master file.  The player is able to turn consensual erotic slavery on and off via dialogue.  No dirty tricks by NPC 'owner', they don't refuse to free the player because they think it's funny, or any other ignorant BS.  The player can say 'Okay, we're done playing for now.' and the NPC will comply and remove any devices the player has without question.  I'm doing the mod like how things are in real life BDSM scenes.  The Dom is in control until the Sub red lights them.

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Only I finding this rant about player slavery req, ironic?

Pretty sure it's the narrow vision of what 'slavery' is that's the beef.  I know for a fact the majority of 'slavery' mods hosted at LL demonstrate a massive lack of knowledge as to what real BDSM really is.  To be honest they reflect a 'hentai mentality' which is as cool as it is delusional.  What's really sad is I've been internet 'corrected' for pointing this out before.  Yeah, no shit.  LL mods are an accurate representation of the BDSM scene, or at least that's what some of these retards think.

 

Speaking for myself, the mods that are popular make the base game unplayable and for the majority of them there is no way to 'turn them off'.  Installing and activating then means regular game play is second thought.  To me the main objective is getting the 'slave' shit forcibly equipped on my character removed so I can play the damn game.  For others having what equates to having cursed items that inhibit spell casting, combat and movement forcibly equipped on them is 'the shit'.  To each their own but unfortunately the 'ha-ha get out of THAT' mod mentality holds the field.

 

It is like the idea of consensual erotic slavery is an alien concept at LL.  Frankly, the vast mjority of LL slavery mods are a pathetic representation of ther genre and they don't do BDSM any justice.  Mostly they are a sad juvenile parody.

 

BUT let them be stupid and wrong...and don't download their bullshit.

 

 

I haven't yet heard a single author of a DD content mod saying that their mod is an accurate picture of real-life BDSM. At least I don't think there is any chance that I get handcuffed when opening a dresser in real life. :D  In real life, your master also doesn't parade you through town in chains. At least I have never seen it. SD+ and SlaveRun are pretty much the two only "pure" slavery mods I am aware of. Some others, like Captured Dreams, Maria Eden or my own mod contain aspects of slavery, but have their main focus somewhere else. And the latter three mods don't feature a "lock the character in place" type of slavery, at least not for any longer period of time.

 

Also, the very idea of restraints is to restrict their subject. It's in the nature of things that wearing an armbinder prevents combat (and DD even provides means to do fight anyway now!). Or that a gag prevents talking (oh wait, there are means to get around that as well). DD also lets the player see despite a blindfold would realistically make this impossible.

I do agree that some slavery mods just lock the character in place in a more or less tied-up fashion, but otherwise don't provide much to keep the player interested. Watching your tied-up character sitting in a cage isn't terribly interesting, indeed. My own mod is about bondage escape, mainly. You get locked up in some things and have to find a way out. But for that to work in terms of gameplay, the player has to have a motivation to escape in the first place. What would that motivation be if the restraints wouldn't be restrictive?

 

Next thing, and I can speak only for myself here, but as a developer of a BD(SM) mod, I don't mind people telling me their ideas and suggestions. I don't want to start creating models any more than you want to start writing code, but we can let each other know what we would love to have. Nothing wrong with that. So if you feel that my interpretation of BDSM or any other feature in my mod is wrong or unsatisfying, let me know in a constructive fashion and I will consider it. I've implemented lots of things based on user suggestions and will continue to do so. Funnily enough, most suggestions I had were rather -less- consensual- stuff than what  usually code.

 

Back on topic, why is every BDSM mod using DD? As skyrimLL said, because it makes sense from a development point of view. DDI contains well over 10,000 lines of code and no developer in their right mind wants to reinvent the wheel. Also, using DD means that these mods have at least a chance to remain compatible with each other. Bondage -is- a part of erotic slavery. DDI is providing the bondage part, so modders can work on their actual content.

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The gist of what I'm trying (and evidently failing) to say is the frame works are being poorly implemented.  For a lot of these DD-based mods wrapping the player up in devices is the main goal, a goal that has no reward.

 

It's how modders are implementing the frameworks a few people have issue with.  If the player is equipped with a Zaz/DD armbinder that equates to a vanilla game cursed item.  No combat, no spell casting, no inventory access, no fast travel.  In game terms the objective is to get that shit removed as soon as possible.  I don't know of anyone who's gone to the Dawnguard Soul Cairn and not tried to get their soul back.  No one playing that DLC runs around thinking that the negative effects are great and enhances role play.  In fact they want that shit removed.  How is an armbinder any different?

 

If I made a mod that forced a magical effect on the player where they couldn't fight, cast spells, access their inventory or fast travel people would think the mod is broken.  Sure, there would be a way to get the spell removed but I'd reapply it if the player talked to the wrong NPC or opened the wrong loot chest.  My 'fuck the player over' mod isn't innovative or sexy, it's a game breaking screw job.  Yet that is precisely the types of mods being made using the DD framework.  And they're fucking retarded.  The vanilla game does it and it's a curse, a DD mod does it and it' a blessing to be embraced.  That shit doesn't make any sense.

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The gist of what I'm trying (and evidently failing) to say is the frame works are being poorly implemented.  For a lot of these DD-based mods wrapping the player up in devices is the main goal, a goal that has no reward.

 

DD (as in the framework) doesn't provide any rewards because it's simply not its job. That's up to the modders using DD.

 

It's how modders are implementing the frameworks a few people have issue with.  If the player is equipped with a Zaz/DD armbinder that equates to a vanilla game cursed item.  No combat, no spell casting, no inventory access, no fast travel.  In game terms the objective is to get that shit removed as soon as possible.  I don't know of anyone who's gone to the Dawnguard Soul Cairn and not tried to get their soul back.  No one playing that DLC runs around thinking that the negative effects are great and enhances role play.  In fact they want that shit removed.  How is an armbinder any different?

 

It's not different. That's the point. What these items in fact do is providing a challenge. Any challenge is by its very nature not a positive thing for the player/character. Otherwise it wouldn't be a challenge. Compare to a regular staple challenge of RPGs - combat. Combat is not something the character would actually look forward to. It's a gameplay mechanism to give the player something to do. From a game design perspective, that's not any different than challenging the player by putting her into an armbinder and telling her to find a (hopefully interesting) way to get out.

 

If I made a mod that forced a magical effect on the player where they couldn't fight, cast spells, access their inventory or fast travel people would think the mod is broken.  Sure, there would be a way to get the spell removed but I'd reapply it if the player talked to the wrong NPC or opened the wrong loot chest.  My 'fuck the player over' mod isn't innovative or sexy, it's a game breaking screw job.  Yet that is precisely the types of mods being made using the DD framework.  And they're fucking retarded.  The vanilla game does it and it's a curse, a DD mod does it and it' a blessing to be embraced.  That shit doesn't make any sense.

 

I guess in the end you don't like the type of challenge provided by DD style mods and that's why you react the way you do. They are not meant to enhance the main quest or even allow you to continue playing it. They are a sort of DLC that provides a -different- kind of challenge. Call it a side quest if you want, because that's what it is. If that sort of content isn't for you, that's fine. I guess in the end it's just a matter of taste?

 

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The gist of what I'm trying (and evidently failing) to say is the frame works are being poorly implemented.  For a lot of these DD-based mods wrapping the player up in devices is the main goal, a goal that has no reward.

 

It's how modders are implementing the frameworks a few people have issue with.  If the player is equipped with a Zaz/DD armbinder that equates to a vanilla game cursed item.  No combat, no spell casting, no inventory access, no fast travel.  In game terms the objective is to get that shit removed as soon as possible.  I don't know of anyone who's gone to the Dawnguard Soul Cairn and not tried to get their soul back.  No one playing that DLC runs around thinking that the negative effects are great and enhances role play.  In fact they want that shit removed.  How is an armbinder any different?

 

If I made a mod that forced a magical effect on the player where they couldn't fight, cast spells, access their inventory or fast travel people would think the mod is broken.  Sure, there would be a way to get the spell removed but I'd reapply it if the player talked to the wrong NPC or opened the wrong loot chest.  My 'fuck the player over' mod isn't innovative or sexy, it's a game breaking screw job.  Yet that is precisely the types of mods being made using the DD framework.  And they're fucking retarded.  The vanilla game does it and it's a curse, a DD mod does it and it' a blessing to be embraced.  That shit doesn't make any sense.

I wonder what you think about mods like RND? There it's not even what other modders do about it, or bad luck to get something bad what keeps you busy. I'm constantly searching for food, bloating my inventory and stuff, and all that just because if i don't, i'll get debuffs to death. OK, it has some pretty nice "rewards" for cooking some stuff, but the main part is "You'll die if you don't continuesly do stuff you didn't care about in vanilla."

 

For me, DD and the mods using it are similar to RND, but some have intresting stories/quests/dialogues additional to the challange/changed gameplay. And i like that, more or less. I don't often use RND at all, and i don't use dcul with default settings - that's too much. But imho many of the cursed loot parts are still more intresting than doing the vanilla stuff. And yes, i've went to get my sould back. But i didn't complain about that quest. And if i'm equipped in an armbinder or yoke, i don't say "Oh how amazing, let's play the game that way!". Of course it try to get out of it, but that doesn't mean i wouldn't enjoy the feeling to be helpless for some time.

 

If you just want to kill bandits and dragons with some kind of BDSM Amorous Adventures going on, i'd agree that many DD mods are not what you want to use. The closest mod to this i've played would be the "dominant Andrew" part from sex slaves. But i don't think i'm a moron because i like other parts/mods more, or because i don't care what's "realistic".

 

Where i totally agree is, that most mods could have much more and better and longer stories and dialogues. When i get a good story i don't really care that much about the topic, i'd even play a mod where you have to learn cooking or something as long as it's funny and entertaining. The only really outstanding mods here in this are imho Get Stripped! and Trapped in rubber, maybe Isles of Mara.

Slaverun reloaded, suspicious gold coin aren't bad, though, and i didn't play the dcul follower things and new CD yet. And as skyrimLL mentioned, it's pretty hard or impossible to give random NPCs a personality to make up a good story. Maybe, i really hope for it, you can prove me wrong here with your mod. I'd love to be wrong here. :)

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I can understand sometimes it seems like DDI has infiltrated every skyrim mod, and a lot of the conflicts are actually not so much caused by DDI, but by one mod not following a particular or You have to do it this way form that is in DDI, or another mod changing something it was not suppose too.

 

   I like them all, and I seldom mix mods, I run them with Only there Dependency's and sexlab's dependency's.  I find them sometimes testy, and sometimes I am the one that caused the problem by not following the modders instructions close enough, but sometimes there just screwed up.

 

  anyway One Mod I am sure you should try that does tend to avoid any hard dependency other than zaz, and sexlab, and DDA ( which is only the assets, and has none of the scripted bondage ) is Maria Prostitution.  It has a tough learning curve, but there is and UN godly amount of stuff in it, once you become acquainted with how to use it.  I think it is a wonderful bondage alternative at time's, just for a break from the DDI multitude for a little bit.

 

   By the sound of it, I think you have gotten a little over whelmed by the Mmmmuphit! I can't understand you, and the  struggle,struggle,struggle, and the "here I am again, bound up 400 mile's from no where, and I have to go all the way to the other side of the map, just to get the crap off, and all I can say is Mmmmuphzi !, and it takes and act of congress to get the damn map Up!"

 

   Try a little bit of Defeat ( if I could only have one sexlab mod, and one mod only Defeat would be it ), and maybe get Maria also, give your self a break. There are mods out there that have avoided DDI.

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I don't know of anyone who's gone to the Dawnguard Soul Cairn and not tried to get their soul back.  No one playing that DLC runs around thinking that the negative effects are great and enhances role play.  In fact they want that shit removed.  How is an armbinder any different?

 

Hope you don't mind me playing Socrates with you for a bit, but I think you asked a key question there that illustrates why a lot of these "quests" aren't as fun as their designers hope.  (I'm also not familiar with the Soul Cairn in particular, but I do know of similar quests from other games.)

 

So, in the interests of that, I'm going to turn that back around - how do the various random restraint quests differ from the Soul Cairn?  I'm going to tender some guesses based on another example....

 

 

During the game Deus Ex Human Revolution, there comes a point where you need to make a decision regarding a security patch for your cyborg PC's systems.  If you make the "wrong" decision, then during a key encounter those systems are disabled.  I haven't played the "Director's Cut" version to that point, but in the launch version it takes some time, during which you're what the game calls "factory zero" - a starting character without access to even basic abilities beyond what a standard human could manage and maybe taking an extra bullet or two.  This lends an air of desperation to the encounters that can last for up to 30 minutes of gameplay, depending on how you're able to adjust to the limitations.

 

 

Now, I'm going to put my guesses about some of the traits of the Soul Cairn in another spoiler, and we'll see how right I am....

 

 

 

  • While being soulless is fairly annoying, you retain at least one, probably two or three, of the following abilities at a usable level.
  1. Swing/fire weapon
  2. Cast attack spells
  3. Stealth
  4. Healing/self-buffing spells
  5. Conjuring allies
  6. Communicate with follower (who is still present)
  • Either you retain the ability to Fast Travel, most of the places you need to go to resolve the quest are no more than 3-5 minutes real-time travel apart,  or you retain most or all of the abilities in the first section to some extent
  • The Soul Cairn can only happen once per playthrough, and it's either unique or close to unique within the vanilla Skyrim+DLC experience.
  • Upon completion, you receive a fairly good reward for the trouble.

 

 

 

So, how did I do?

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I can understand sometimes it seems like DDI has infiltrated every skyrim mod, and a lot of the conflicts are actually not so much caused by DDI, but by one mod not following a particular or You have to do it this way form that is in DDI, or another mod changing something it was not suppose too.

 

   I like them all, and I seldom mix mods, I run them with Only there Dependency's and sexlab's dependency's.  I find them sometimes testy, and sometimes I am the one that caused the problem by not following the modders instructions close enough, but sometimes there just screwed up.

 

  anyway One Mod I am sure you should try that does tend to avoid any hard dependency other than zaz, and sexlab, and DDA ( which is only the assets, and has none of the scripted bondage ) is Maria Prostitution.  It has a tough learning curve, but there is and UN godly amount of stuff in it, once you become acquainted with how to use it.  I think it is a wonderful bondage alternative at time's, just for a break from the DDI multitude for a little bit.

 

   By the sound of it, I think you have gotten a little over whelmed by the Mmmmuphit! I can't understand you, and the  struggle,struggle,struggle, and the "here I am again, bound up 400 mile's from no where, and I have to go all the way to the other side of the map, just to get the crap off, and all I can say is Mmmmuphzi !, and it takes and act of congress to get the damn map Up!"

 

   Try a little bit of Defeat ( if I could only have one sexlab mod, and one mod only Defeat would be it ), and maybe get Maria also, give your self a break. There are mods out there that have avoided DDI.

 

Imho you miss some things if you don't mix mods, from some funny situations (i get raped by a bear, bathing in skyrim tells me "you do not feel dirty") to some great mechanics created by using RND with cursed loot for example, like beeing horny + drinking alcohol => you search somebody to fuck. Without RND i woudln't consider drinking alcohol, or even have it in my inventory. Some mods play very very nice together. To be trapped in a rubber suit with high armor ratings can still be pretty bad when using MME, breasts grow and slow you down and you can't milk yourself in machines while in one of those suits. More mods have some debuffs down to the point where i can't move at all anymore, the only way out is sleeping, waiting, or drinking skooma. With skoomy whore again... you get the picture. 

My current game isn't about beeing a mighty Dragonborn slaying thousands of enemies. It's about survival in a mostly hostile world. And here many DD/slave mods fit very good. Prostitue yourself in a city and birth some soulgems to improve your gear is quite save, looting the bandit camp around the corner is something you have to think about, and carefully prepare yourself... not only because of the bandits, but also because of the traps, the animals on the way and their diseases...

But that doesn't mean i'd like it that way in every game, i just like to possibility to do so if i'm in the mood. :) It's like playing an entirely different game with Skyrim history, you're not the Dragonborn anymore, you are the thief who get caught when he tried to steal a horse.

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You keep using that "slavery" word, however I don't think it means what you think it means. Most mods in LL are setup for a freeuse world, that's not slavery.

 

-*-*-

 

My main disappointment with the mods around LL is how they handle the interactions between their mechanic and the PC (player character). Vanilla skyrim pretty much never forces anything on the player, and let the player do whatever s/he wants to do. If the player don't want to start the dragon quest, then the player is free to just ignore it without any repercussion. And in the grand scheme, the game world is sightly shifting itself around the player actions. For example, the civil war will only progress if the player takes part in it.

 

However, the mods on LL don't follow that game design. They intend to force something on the player and force him/her to deal with it before continuing his/her initial task. The obvious example would be cursed loot, that put random crap on the player for no reason at all. It's not a consequential punishment, it's just bondage gears because you move around the game. It is annoying as hell and break the gameflow. If you are exploring a cave then struck by the RNG God, you better backtrack and get yourself outside of the gears before continuing to explore that area. A waste of time, really. However, from the same mod, I quite liked the introduction to player "slavery" by Leon's quest. The quest where you have to go to a bdsm party and convince that one dude to give an item back. If there were more of those little bits of content, it would be far more enjoyable.

 

Why is that so? Because the inconvenience is temporary and bound to a quest triggered by the player. It doesn't force the player to walk naked across Skyrim because the blacksmith is crazy. On another end, I appreciate the small quest some npc can send the player on to get rid of some bondage gear. More of that please, and less RNG while picking flowers.

 

The main issue though is that the events fired by the different mods are not avoidable. They just happen while ripping freedom from the player and let the player deal with the aftermath, and that's just annoying.

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I can understand sometimes it seems like DDI has infiltrated every skyrim mod, and a lot of the conflicts are actually not so much caused by DDI, but by one mod not following a particular or You have to do it this way form that is in DDI, or another mod changing something it was not suppose too.

 

   I like them all, and I seldom mix mods, I run them with Only there Dependency's and sexlab's dependency's.  I find them sometimes testy, and sometimes I am the one that caused the problem by not following the modders instructions close enough, but sometimes there just screwed up.

 

  anyway One Mod I am sure you should try that does tend to avoid any hard dependency other than zaz, and sexlab, and DDA ( which is only the assets, and has none of the scripted bondage ) is Maria Prostitution.  It has a tough learning curve, but there is and UN godly amount of stuff in it, once you become acquainted with how to use it.  I think it is a wonderful bondage alternative at time's, just for a break from the DDI multitude for a little bit.

 

   By the sound of it, I think you have gotten a little over whelmed by the Mmmmuphit! I can't understand you, and the  struggle,struggle,struggle, and the "here I am again, bound up 400 mile's from no where, and I have to go all the way to the other side of the map, just to get the crap off, and all I can say is Mmmmuphzi !, and it takes and act of congress to get the damn map Up!"

 

   Try a little bit of Defeat ( if I could only have one sexlab mod, and one mod only Defeat would be it ), and maybe get Maria also, give your self a break. There are mods out there that have avoided DDI.

 

Imho you miss some things if you don't mix mods, from some funny situations (i get raped by a bear, bathing in skyrim tells me "you do not feel dirty") to some great mechanics created by using RND with cursed loot for example, like beeing horny + drinking alcohol => you search somebody to fuck. Without RND i woudln't consider drinking alcohol, or even have it in my inventory. Some mods play very very nice together. To be trapped in a rubber suit with high armor ratings can still be pretty bad when using MME, breasts grow and slow you down and you can't milk yourself in machines while in one of those suits. More mods have some debuffs down to the point where i can't move at all anymore, the only way out is sleeping, waiting, or drinking skooma. With skoomy whore again... you get the picture. 

My current game isn't about beeing a mighty Dragonborn slaying thousands of enemies. It's about survival in a mostly hostile world. And here many DD/slave mods fit very good. Prostitue yourself in a city and birth some soulgems to improve your gear is quite save, looting the bandit camp around the corner is something you have to think about, and carefully prepare yourself... not only because of the bandits, but also because of the traps, the animals on the way and their diseases...

But that doesn't mean i'd like it that way in every game, i just like to possibility to do so if i'm in the mood. :) It's like playing an entirely different game with Skyrim history, you're not the Dragonborn anymore, you are the thief who get caught when he tried to steal a horse.

 

 

    I do not disagree with you at all, that combining mods can be a lot of fun.

 

   It can also be a lot of frustration when they don't play well together, and I find that many of them, although recommended by the mod Author to be good to add, do not play well, and quite often are very buggy when combined with the Authors mod.

 

  I said "I like them all, and I seldom mix mods, I run them with Only there Dependency's and sexlab's dependency's."  That word "seldom" need to be considered here, it probably means that I do sometimes combine them.

 

  I just personally find that I get a lot less CTD, and a lot less head ache, by not combining them at least not Normally until I have the main Mod, that I am trying get sorted out, and all of it's little quirk's, and oddities understood so that it play's well for Me, and I know what not to do to keep it from causing trouble.

 

   Then I may try adding another mod, only one at a time, and slowly make sure they play well together "for me". Note the for Me.

     We all play such a diverse, and quite different load order, and what works well for one, does not always do so well for another, so I find Moderation to be the best solution for Me.

 

1.  I personally do understand the Op's distaste for some parts of DDI, the Armbinder can be a lot of fun, but eventually the struggle,struggle,struggle, and the complicated way you have to learn or remember in order to get the map up, can grow very tiresome.

 

2. The gag is a lot of fun, and I hate to be with out it, but mods that allow me to disable its usage are a God send for me. I really get tired of the MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, "I almost underatand you" MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?,

 

   I know it is suppose to get easier, but the problem with that is failed save loads, updates for mod causing you to have to restart. restarting because you missed something or wanted to add something, or you  just got tired of it period.

 

It need's and option to turn it off I think.  after seeing it, and knowing it is there, give the player a break from that "MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, "I almost underatand you" MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?,"

 

 

  It is fun for me for the first few time,  but then gets really stupid, and time wasting for me.

 

 

 

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I can understand sometimes it seems like DDI has infiltrated every skyrim mod, and a lot of the conflicts are actually not so much caused by DDI, but by one mod not following a particular or You have to do it this way form that is in DDI, or another mod changing something it was not suppose too.

 

   I like them all, and I seldom mix mods, I run them with Only there Dependency's and sexlab's dependency's.  I find them sometimes testy, and sometimes I am the one that caused the problem by not following the modders instructions close enough, but sometimes there just screwed up.

 

  anyway One Mod I am sure you should try that does tend to avoid any hard dependency other than zaz, and sexlab, and DDA ( which is only the assets, and has none of the scripted bondage ) is Maria Prostitution.  It has a tough learning curve, but there is and UN godly amount of stuff in it, once you become acquainted with how to use it.  I think it is a wonderful bondage alternative at time's, just for a break from the DDI multitude for a little bit.

 

   By the sound of it, I think you have gotten a little over whelmed by the Mmmmuphit! I can't understand you, and the  struggle,struggle,struggle, and the "here I am again, bound up 400 mile's from no where, and I have to go all the way to the other side of the map, just to get the crap off, and all I can say is Mmmmuphzi !, and it takes and act of congress to get the damn map Up!"

 

   Try a little bit of Defeat ( if I could only have one sexlab mod, and one mod only Defeat would be it ), and maybe get Maria also, give your self a break. There are mods out there that have avoided DDI.

 

Imho you miss some things if you don't mix mods, from some funny situations (i get raped by a bear, bathing in skyrim tells me "you do not feel dirty") to some great mechanics created by using RND with cursed loot for example, like beeing horny + drinking alcohol => you search somebody to fuck. Without RND i woudln't consider drinking alcohol, or even have it in my inventory. Some mods play very very nice together. To be trapped in a rubber suit with high armor ratings can still be pretty bad when using MME, breasts grow and slow you down and you can't milk yourself in machines while in one of those suits. More mods have some debuffs down to the point where i can't move at all anymore, the only way out is sleeping, waiting, or drinking skooma. With skoomy whore again... you get the picture. 

My current game isn't about beeing a mighty Dragonborn slaying thousands of enemies. It's about survival in a mostly hostile world. And here many DD/slave mods fit very good. Prostitue yourself in a city and birth some soulgems to improve your gear is quite save, looting the bandit camp around the corner is something you have to think about, and carefully prepare yourself... not only because of the bandits, but also because of the traps, the animals on the way and their diseases...

But that doesn't mean i'd like it that way in every game, i just like to possibility to do so if i'm in the mood. :) It's like playing an entirely different game with Skyrim history, you're not the Dragonborn anymore, you are the thief who get caught when he tried to steal a horse.

 

 

    I do not disagree with you at all, that combining mods can be a lot of fun.

 

   It can also be a lot of frustration when they don't play well together, and I find that many of them, although recommended by the mod Author to be good to add, do not play well, and quite often are very buggy when combined with the Authors mod.

 

  I said "I like them all, and I seldom mix mods, I run them with Only there Dependency's and sexlab's dependency's."  That word "seldom" need to be considered here, it probably means that I do sometimes combine them.

 

  I just personally find that I get a lot less CTD, and a lot less head ache, by not combining them at least not Normally until I have the main Mod, that I am trying get sorted out, and all of it's little quirk's, and oddities understood so that it play's well for Me, and I know what not to do to keep it from causing trouble.

 

   Then I may try adding another mod, only one at a time, and slowly make sure they play well together "for me". Note the for Me.

     We all play such a diverse, and quite different load order, and what works well for one, does not always do so well for another, so I find Moderation to be the best solution for Me.

 

1.  I personally do understand the Op's distaste for some parts of DDI, the Armbinder can be a lot of fun, but eventually the struggle,struggle,struggle, and the complicated way you have to learn or remember in order to get the map up, can grow very tiresome.

 

2. The gag is a lot of fun, and I hate to be with out it, but mods that allow me to disable its usage are a God send for me. I really get tired of the MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, "I almost underatand you" MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?,

 

   I know it is suppose to get easier, but the problem with that is failed save loads, updates for mod causing you to have to restart. restarting because you missed something or wanted to add something, or you  just got tired of it period.

 

It need's and option to turn it off I think.  after seeing it, and knowing it is there, give the player a break from that "MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, "I almost underatand you" MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?, MMMUphzz, MMMUphzz!, MMMUphzz?,"

 

 

  It is fun for me for the first few time,  but then gets really stupid, and time wasting for me.

 

 

 

 

Well, in some cases like in tmy current game, i even risk stability for "fun". I agree that many mods don't have enough about compatibility, but especially for mods which still have progress, i can't really blame the modders for not maintaining the 233. update of another mod they once considered fitting well. I wouldn't like to do that either once i think my mod is fine and finished. ;)

But (here, for me;)), most mods recommended to play nice together did exactly that without big problems or crashes.

 

I agree that the mumbling of DD becomes quite boring and annoying, that's one reason why i never play without cursed loot, even in games i turn of most features. Especially the "second try = auto success" is much better imho.

 

And of course, i didn't want to talk you into anything, i just wanted to suggest giving combinations a try. ;) If you already know about the possibilities, that's fine.

It's similar with ME: i've tried it 3 or 4 times, and everytime after half an hour playing i've encountered a problem anywhere between gamebreaking without solution and "i could console me through this quest with another half an hour work." which made me just uninstalling it and play something else.

If it works for others, that's fine, but for me it doesn't. Maybe i'll try again sometime, but for now i prefer mods i know that they work for me.

 

But to get a bit back on topic: I can understand that many ppl don't want to play most or all DD mods. But beeing angry because modders make mods they like to play (or just to make if they don't play anyways), instead of making mods somebody else wants to play is... wasted, i'd say. Maybe because i don't enjoy beeing angry. I know some people do, but i can't really understand it. 

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But to get a bit back on topic: I can understand that many ppl don't want to play most or all DD mods. But beeing angry because modders make mods they like to play (or just to make if they don't play anyways), instead of making mods somebody else wants to play is... wasted, i'd say. Maybe because i don't enjoy beeing angry. I know some people do, but i can't really understand it. 

 

 

I 100% agree, there is no reason to be angry about things you don't like in mods, I am just so happy that there are so many people willing to devote there time to producing mods.

 

  When I mod, I mod for myself. I will share it if I think it is solid enough, and mostly not to buggy.

 

  I am not in anyway ever really angry at any modder, and there stuff, I am like really super happy that they share it, and allow me to post my idea's about it.

 

   I will attempt,  to make suggestions, that I truly hope do not make the modder mad, and sometimes I may complain about a feature in the mod.

 

   But I fully understand that the only thing a modder ever gets from his or her work is some one once in awhile posting that they truly love there mod, and they can not wait for more of the same.

 

   That is all a modder ever gets in most case's. I for one am always glad to have and opportunity to test, and play all of there creations.

 

   And I do not ever intend to offend. But being human, I tend to complain a little, I think we all do. But I try not to get angry, or offensive.  It is free after all, and I did not have to install it...  LOL

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I'm kinda on the hand of the OP. Right now in my NMM, the tab 'unassigned' holds 45 mods, all from LL and at least 35 of those are there because of dependencies. To be honest, that's dog-on awful. Ever since Maria Eden started to break up into dependencies itself I dropped that mod as fast as I could. The bloat is real. Besides, try to troubleshoot that board of spaghetti when little things stop working. (Like the pillories. Good luck finding out why.)

 

'Badly written dialogue' is another thing. Without wanting to toot my own horn, english is my fourth language. Let that sink in while you read this post. Then read the average slaverymod dialogue 'haha, your smiple bich! I fuk u now!'

Right.

On the broad side of it, the dialogue's quality is as quick and dirty as the slavery-mods themselves are. DDi dependency my ass. Lazy ass modding to satisfy juvenile impulses is more like it. I believe that it wouldn't hurt any modder to reinvent the wheel when it comes to tying the Dova up. Scrapping 5 mods from the list because of that would be welcome indeed.

 

It's often argued here that modders mod for themselves first, but if that's the case they shouldn't share and expect pats on the back for it. I'm dead serious when I say in contrast to keep your mod to yourself and save everybody a lot of time. When a modder shares a mod, that mod isn't shielded by the 'I made it for myself' argument. That one is only valid when the mod is on your HDD and not when it is on LL or anywhere else. Right now, a bondage-mod is easily described: dependencies up the wazoo and english-usage that a kindergarten-toddler would be ashamed to show off. On top of that, what the mod actually offers is force-undress the Dova and stick her into everything at once.

 

I believe that all Devious Devices mods (DD, DDa, DDe and DDi) must be consolidated and be modelled into a complete companion framework to SL. A lot of overlap can be removed that way and the dependencies made to be more stable, if everybody insists on using the CTD-bandwagon.

 

 

 

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I'm kinda on the hand of the OP. Right now in my NMM, the tab 'unassigned' holds 45 mods, all from LL and at least 35 of those are there because of dependencies. To be honest, that's dog-on awful. Ever since Maria Eden started to break up into dependencies itself I dropped that mod as fast as I could. The bloat is real. Besides, try to troubleshoot that board of spaghetti when little things stop working. (Like the pillories. Good luck finding out why.)

 

'Badly written dialogue' is another thing. Without wanting to toot my own horn, english is my fourth language. Let that sink in while you read this post. Then read the average slaverymod dialogue 'haha, your smiple bich! I fuk u now!'

Right.

On the broad side of it, the dialogue's quality is as quick and dirty as the slavery-mods themselves are. DDi dependency my ass. Lazy ass modding to satisfy juvenile impulses is more like it. I believe that it wouldn't hurt any modder to reinvent the wheel when it comes to tying the Dova up. Scrapping 5 mods from the list because of that would be welcome indeed.

 

It's often argued here that modders mod for themselves first, but if that's the case they shouldn't share and expect pats on the back for it. I'm dead serious when I say in contrast to keep your mod to yourself and save everybody a lot of time. When a modder shares a mod, that mod isn't shielded by the 'I made it for myself' argument. That one is only valid when the mod is on your HDD and not when it is on LL or anywhere else. Right now, a bondage-mod is easily described: dependencies up the wazoo and english-usage that a kindergarten-toddler would be ashamed to show off. On top of that, what the mod actually offers is force-undress the Dova and stick her into everything at once.

 

I believe that all Devious Devices mods (DD, DDa, DDe and DDi) must be consolidated and be modelled into a complete companion framework to SL. A lot of overlap can be removed that way and the dependencies made to be more stable, if everybody insists on using the CTD-bandwagon.

Well, beside that it's bad style reinventing a wheel that already works totally fine: that would mean every slavery mod is incompatible to any other slavery mod. Then you won't need more than one indeed, but i'd still prefer it the way it works atm.

Many modders here don't have english as a first language, most  or all of them will be happy if you write better dialogues for them.

Next, if you think something must be done because it doesn't work for you: it works for, don't know, 2k? users fine and stable. Guess who should change something. If you can't figure out why something breaks in NMM, my advise would be to leave NMM. But to use MO instead would mean you have to do something yourself... and your rant doesn't sound like you'd do that. I have really no clue what DD has to do with companions, and why they should do another framework for that. Are you sure you know what you're talking about?

 

And finally, i'm very happy about every single mod here, even for those i'll never play. To have the chance to use them means a lot to me, it doesn't matter if i like them in general or the way they are done. And when i dislike things, i'll tell what exactly i don't like and what i'd prefer,  any many things i suggested were done. Not all, not even most, but many. And then i'm happy because i got what i wanted and the modder is happy because their mod got improved. I don't see exactly how ranting will imrpove anything. But then again, to make useful suggestions you need to know what you're takling about...

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