0SEX/OSA and SexLab - trajectory?

[1conseq]

I like OSA/0sex a lot but I dont use it because mods like beeing female and spouses enhanced dont work with it.

 

If more mods start supporting OSA/0Sex I will switch from sexlab.

 

Yep, me too. That's exactly the thing with 0SEX. To me it's animations are hands down better than SL, but it lacks the same amount of content and maybe flexibility.

 

And it has a huge potential.

[Morra]

Seems like some people have no idea what OSA and SL represent. They are both the same thing. They are Animation Frameworks. The difference, SL is based on Papyrus, OSA on ActionScript. Any mod that that was previously developed with SL in mind, can be converted/add support to use OSA.

[ToJKa]

Speaking strictly as a user, not a developer, I prefer the hands off approach of SexLab. 0Sex is little too micromanage-y for me long term, but it does seem prefect for marriage/intimacy type mods, where its a min game of making your spouse happy.

 

As another user, i agree. It is impressive, in a "tech demo" sort of way, but i don't intend to use it as a replacer for SL.

 

As it currently is, at least.

[RenaSan]

Well, I think it's been said already, but they serve different purposes.

 

Right now I am using both. OSex is pretty much what I use whenever I want to enjoy a visually appealing sex scene with an actor of my choosing. SexLab and a few additional mods are pretty well integrated into my actual skyrim experience, because I kind of roleplay my characters through video recordings (and no, only my close friends who enjoy watching me roleplay in first person view get to see that). So until OSex can be triggered through in game events, I don't see myself not using SexLab anymore.

 

However, to think about the future. I do believe that OSex could very well be the end of SexLab, for me at least. Because once modders start picking it up (I haven't tried the amorous adventures mod yet, but I have the sexlab version) and integrate it with their mods. More modules like rape, femdom, device bondage, just more variety, get added. That's probably when I won't see a point in using SexLab and all it's friends anymore.

 

Until a mod like SexLab Defeat comes out with OSex integration though, SexLab Defeat stays one of my most important mods for me to enjoy my game. 

 

-----------

 

@CEO

I am interested though, how possible is it that OSex could be used for mods that focus on sexual immersion, because so far, unless you're a married couple, the immersion isn't really there. What would need to be added would be different start positions depending on the situation. But let's say someone did want to make a immersive rape mod with OSex integration, that would be possible? Or is OSex pretty much bound to be quite seperated from the game? (by that I mean not being able to really be integrated with quests, crime systems, stealth, sex journals, etc)

[Delzaron]

Based on reading and comments, OSA and Osex seems very powerful... and mods using that are accepted on the nexus. Sexlab mods, not...

[CEO 0S]

 

@CEO

I am interested though, how possible is it that OSex could be used for mods that focus on sexual immersion, because so far, unless you're a married couple, the immersion isn't really there. What would need to be added would be different start positions depending on the situation. But let's say someone did want to make a immersive rape mod with OSex integration, that would be possible? Or is OSex pretty much bound to be quite seperated from the game? (by that I mean not being able to really be integrated with quests, crime systems, stealth, sex journals, etc)

 

OSA makes API for all modules that use it so OSex can be called by that API, it's pretty much interchangeable with SL. You can trigger a scene, and can give the player control like Amorous Adventures does now or you can choreograph a scene if you like so the player doesn't get any nav choices and you direct all the choices for them + when it ends. It can be used by any papyrus system but I'm leaving that in the hands of developers. A lot of developers have left so who knows if it will pick up, no one might ever shows up that cares enough to make more things happen, I'm just happy FoxFingers made an AA for it.

 

For me animating Non-consensual is not something I can live with but OSA can do that if anyone wants to animate non-consensual on it. I am making a short entrance that appears non-consensual in a viking pillager kind of way to be triggered by the API (to at least give it a hint of versatility with this content) or when the player starts OSex on a hostile target but i'm going to keep it short and not animate actual penetration happening since it gets pretty heavy when done on seamless animation. Theoretically you could make a NC module that just does NC entrances then hands off to OSex but I don't think any of OSex's scenes could really be interpreted visually as non-consensual so the entire thing would have to be reanimated.

[RenaSan]

I wouldn't know why they'd discriminate against SexLab but not OSex. I mean, OSA is clearly Nexus fit. But I actually wondered as well how I was able to get OSex on Nexus, but there are plenty adult mods on there, just not SexLab, for.. whatever reason. I'd really love to know.

 

-----

 

Agreed though. OSex seems VERY powerful and tbh I'd prefer having the more detailed choices OSex offers for rape scenes. (I may be biased toward Rape scenes, but I think it's the one thing that's hardest to make proper for a videogame.) If it could be implemented that during such a scene the victims also struggle and demand the user to reply with certain actions like tying them, pinning them, etc. Which if the victim manages to she can get away and basically starts a whole chasing scene in which one can try to stop her from getting away (eg. shoot an arrow at her). 

 

Aahahaha, idk if my ideas of a Mod are a bit too rape-ish for what modders like to create. But yea, OSex can probably do all that. Just gotta build a bridge between OSex and in game events.

 

---- Edit to reply to CEO ----

 

Yea, I can imagine that non-consensual is just quite heavy in both content and work load for you. What I'd prefer over it though would be a Sim ish way. Where certain option in OSex become availiable once certain 'flags' are reached. Potential bad endings too maybe. Could throw in some more casual, non sexual scenes in which OSA could maybe be progressive, rather than allow you to go back and forth, so that once an action is chosen it kind of continues forward like visual novels do it. Like you could decide to stroke her back, or her butt. Then there'd be a certain reaction to that based on charm, perks and the npcs opinion of morals blah. Could be pretty nice to finally have a progressive Sim Dating Experience in Skyrim that also comes with a good Interface to run it: OSA.

[1conseq]

 

For me animating Non-consensual is not something I can live with but OSA can do that if anyone wants to animate non-consensual on it. I am making a short entrance that appears non-consensual in a viking pillager kind of way to be triggered by the API (to at least give it a hint of versatility with this content) or when the player starts OSex on a hostile target but i'm going to keep it short and not animate actual penetration happening since it gets pretty heavy when done on seamless animation. Theoretically you could make a NC module that just does NC entrances then hands off to OSex but I don't think any of OSex's scenes could really be interpreted visually as non-consensual so the entire thing would have to be reanimated.

 

 

I understand how you feel. But I think you are looking at it in the wrong way.

 

The animation sequences from SexLab that you would say depict non-consensual sex, to me at least, they just depict 'rough' or 'hardcore' sex. They aren't detailed to the point where you can recognize actual, realistic suffering of someone being raped, maybe because of the limitations of the framework, maybe because (most, I like to assume) people don't want actual rape, the same way they don't really want actual murder, but still can't really play the game without their favorite blood mod, mod that adds more weapons, mod that adds decapitations, mod that adds kill moves, final blow animations and etc.

 

Animations that show things like hair pulling, holding down, hands tied etc fit the purpose of a very common fantasy among both girls and boys and open up some possibilities. It can create situations, like for example, during a sex sequence in the game, the male PC pulls the hair of the woman from behind - she might dislike it instantly and be turned off by it, or she might like it.

 

Even sex in real life needs a bit (or a lot) of variety, you know. 

[Arizona_Steve]

Might have to take a look at this sometime... and try porting Random Sex to it of course.

[zax]

I really like the idea of moving away from papyrus to ActionScript.

Maybe the intention was good, but it really doesn't make sense to use ActionScript over C++ in this case.

 

 

[CEO 0S]

Maybe the intention was good, but it really doesn't make sense to use ActionScript over C++ in this case.

 

Can you explain what your feelings are based on? I believe it's the best and most efficient way to do this, so i disagree.

[zax]

Maybe the intention was good, but it really doesn't make sense to use ActionScript over C++ in this case.

 Can you explain what your feelings are based on? I believe it's the best and most efficient way to do this, so i disagree.

I meant that native code will always be faster than any scripting language. So doing it in ActionScript is like writing Excel spreadsheets in Word - it can be done, but its not efficient (and doesn't make sense at all).

[CEO 0S]

 

Maybe the intention was good, but it really doesn't make sense to use ActionScript over C++ in this case.

 Can you explain what your feelings are based on? I believe it's the best and most efficient way to do this, so i disagree.

I meant that native code will always be faster than any scripting language. So doing it in ActionScript is like writing Excel spreadsheets in Word - it can be done, but its not efficient (and doesn't make sense at all).

 

 

I don't think you have the slightest idea what you're talking about but are very opinionated. Bad mix imo. Not that I really know much about this myself but at least I delivered proof and I think "doesn't make sense at all" is a dbag thing to say considering I have published the potential already.

 

OSA is based in Skyrim's UI scaleform because it handles primarily UI display a vast majority of what it has to do is related to showing visual elements on screen, so it is housed in exactly the thing it's communicating with. The alternate would be thousands of scaleform functions registered through SKSE to manipulate the UI from outside which would be not efficient and make no sense at all.

 

The UI has it's own VM sectioned off, which is why it can stream and process xml non stop, where as a few documents loaded through papyrus clogs everything up. The difference between streaming documents through a dll vs actionscript in the UI is very noticable, so it makes me assume all DLL process get's put on the same VM that papyrus uses.

[factoryclose]

Just a question.. as a newbie modder hahaha...

Are there any differences between Script and Actionscript? Actually I've never heard of that 'actionscript' since I clicked this thread...

Basically Skyrim is wholly based on Script complier I believe, so I don't get what actually actionscript has to do with the game system itself.

At least I know the fact that too much scripts could ruin your save file permanently, which sucks really lol.

If things aren't that different and accessible(I mean... difficulty?) just as we've done so far in CKtool, is there any chance to learn things from the beginning?

 

 

 

[zax]

it handles primarily UI display a vast majority of what it has to do is related to showing visual elements on screen

Vanilla UI also displays visual elements, yet they don't keep players stats in XML files or compute skill advancements and combat damage on UI level. They do it in native code and use UI just for display and player input.

 

 

 

 

[CEO 0S]

 

it handles primarily UI display a vast majority of what it has to do is related to showing visual elements on screen

Vanilla UI also displays visual elements, yet they don't keep players stats in XML files or compute skill advancements and combat damage on UI level. They do it in native code and use UI just for display and player input.

Since you are suggesting c I assume you are implying it would be better to make a skse dll over actionscript. If you had any idea what you were talking about you'd realize that Skyrim wasn't built in a skse dll, that they had the full uncompiled source code. You'd also realize that their ui is still done in actionscript despite them having access to the source code.

 

Lastly you'll see they use esps which are really just data spread sheets just like a series of xml. We can't add new types of forms to esps but we can to our own data methods. An osa module is an open folder of xml but it's principle is identical to an esp and it can take new form types unlike esps.

 

You state it "makes no sense at all", but no DLL plug in will be able to do what OSA can do, working in that format is mostly cracked with very limited functionality compared to the skyrim devs and you'd still need a data storage method like xml or json to do what osa does since we can't hack new form types into a esp. You'd have to create an identical OSA in a dll however it would clog up papyrus from streaming and processing data documents on the papyrus VM and you'd have make actioncript anyways for the ui visuals.

 

If you got more arrogant incorrect statements to make we can work on them together like this if you like.

[zax]

Since you are suggesting c I assume you are implying it would be better to make a skse dll over actionscript. If you had any idea what you were talking about you'd realize that Skyrim wasn't built in a skse dll, that they had the full uncompiled source code.

Dude, can you write at least one sentence without insulting me? I know more C++ than you probably, and I have been reverse engineering Skyrim UI files, so I know what they do internally.

You'd also realize that their ui is still done in actionscript despite them having access to the source code.

Yes, they implemented UI in the UI format (surprising, no?). Theres no gameplay related logic being run on ActionScript level in vanilla files. Everything is being hooked to native functions and populated with data from native code.

You'd have to create an identical OSA in a dll however it would clog up papyrus from streaming and processing data documents on the papyrus VM and you'd have make actioncript anyways for the ui visuals.

Why would you need Papyrus when you have C++ that can directly communicate with AS?

 

 

[CEO 0S]

 

I'm sure you do know more c then me but saying the direction makes no sense at all is pompous. Who knows what the best way to do it really is. I have a working study on the matter as proof for me, which imo has more substance then saying all modding should replicate what developers on the source code did and that there's anything native about using c through skse.

 

Papyrus comes into play because th dll still taxes papyrus VM. Earlier OSA used skse plug-ins and it resulted in clogged papyrus functions being delayed etc. It's on the same memory budget in someways. Actionscript no matter how much you spin it up will not cause papyrus clogs. In extreme cases it will lock up a frame for the duration it takes to complete a thread but that's the only way it can get maxed. I was only able to get that amount of strain from a gigantic xml document I ran through osa's parser made for testing the limits.

 

It's definitely not something that without a doubt could be handled in c better. The access it has isn't like working on a clean slate making your own game it's a Crack with only partial access and tests show the c gets heavy. If I was making my own game from scratch I think you'd be right but this is modding and there's quirks to that which I believe give actionscript a lot of advantages.

 

I find its simplicity and ease especially since osa is very ui based giving easy access is nice. It's not like actionscript can't stream and handle xml easily and it most likely does have unique memory advantages in the case of sjyrim.

[MRM18870]

Seems like some people have no idea what OSA and SL represent. They are both the same thing. They are Animation Frameworks. The difference, SL is based on Papyrus, OSA on ActionScript. Any mod that that was previously developed with SL in mind, can be converted/add support to use OSA.

 

Does this really work this way already? I wonder about this. In SL you have premade animations, and they all have tags. So SL Arousal knows whether an orgasm happened, Being female knows whether a creampie happened. In OSex that depends on what the player is doing  during a scene. So how could those mods know what happened in OSex? Does OSex track what the player is doing and could provide those infos for such mods?

[Morra]

Does this really work this way already? I wonder about this. In SL you have premade animations, and they all have tags. So SL Arousal knows whether an orgasm happened, Being female knows whether a creampie happened. In OSex that depends on what the player is doing  during a scene. So how could those mods know what happened in OSex? Does OSex track what the player is doing and could provide those infos for such mods?

 

 

The short answer is yes. OSA can be integrated in every mod out there for SL.

 

[Z0mBieP00Nani]

 

Does this really work this way already? I wonder about this. In SL you have premade animations, and they all have tags. So SL Arousal knows whether an orgasm happened, Being female knows whether a creampie happened. In OSex that depends on what the player is doing  during a scene. So how could those mods know what happened in OSex? Does OSex track what the player is doing and could provide those infos for such mods?

 

 

The short answer is yes. OSA can be integrated in every mod out there for SL.

 

 

 

The problem is, finding mod authors willing to make the adaptations for "old mods". Which is why an early start for a newer game would be a very good thing for OSA.

[Arizona_Steve]

 

 

Does this really work this way already? I wonder about this. In SL you have premade animations, and they all have tags. So SL Arousal knows whether an orgasm happened, Being female knows whether a creampie happened. In OSex that depends on what the player is doing  during a scene. So how could those mods know what happened in OSex? Does OSex track what the player is doing and could provide those infos for such mods?

 

 

The short answer is yes. OSA can be integrated in every mod out there for SL.

 

 

 

The problem is, finding mod authors willing to make the adaptations for "old mods". Which is why an early start for a newer game would be a very good thing for OSA.

 

 

I think this might be easier to implement in the new 64-bit Skyrim that is coming out than SKSE/SexLab. Or is OSA dependent on SKSE too?

 

 

[CEO 0S]

 

Does this really work this way already? I wonder about this. In SL you have premade animations, and they all have tags. So SL Arousal knows whether an orgasm happened, Being female knows whether a creampie happened. In OSex that depends on what the player is doing  during a scene. So how could those mods know what happened in OSex? Does OSex track what the player is doing and could provide those infos for such mods?

 

 

You can think of binding scenes to a hot key and player control like a utility the player can opt to use. Scenes can be planned to play out without player control automatically by the api. A scene can be fully automated, partly automatic then hand it off to the player, or you can restrict certain navigation options, for example if it's not time in the quest for full sex yet, any combination of those 3 work. OSA tracks everything down to every single sex thrust, OSA persona is meant to respond to these things, so it knows everything that's happening but OSex lacks orgasm animations to play in to the things you are describing. On the note of aroused, OSA has a different scope and some of these things are built into OSA, mainly it's persona system.

[warbaby2]

 

 

The short answer is yes. OSA can be integrated in every mod out there for SL.

 

The problem is, finding mod authors willing to make the adaptations for "old mods". Which is why an early start for a newer game would be a very good thing for OSA.

To be fair, many mods that deal with, basically, the same things could be rolled into one library... basic sex is already there and works quite well in AA, so what's left are, say, two more for non consensual and bestial stuff.

 

...and, yes, the OSA still needs SKSE, so I don't see it working easily in the Special Edition either. 

[MRM18870]

 

The problem is, finding mod authors willing to make the adaptations for "old mods". Which is why an early start for a newer game would be a very good thing for OSA.

 

 

A hidden request for OSex for Fallout 4?

 

 

The short answer is yes. OSA can be integrated in every mod out there for SL.

 

 

 

I made a small request in the Being Female thread and got an answer,  exactly this

 

but OSex lacks orgasm animations to play in to the things you are describing.

 

 

is what seems to be missed and what some guy there is waiting for.

 

that was the exact answer

 

Yes, the author said this back in February

 

"About the 0Sex Mod.... this is something the modder needs to do.

He just needs to raise 1 single command when the sex scene is done, or the orgasm even should be called:

MaleActor.SendModEvent("AddSperm","", FemaleActor.GetFormID())

or

FemaleActor.SendModEvent("BeeingFemale", "AddSperm", MaleActor.GetFormID())

 

I was thinking of adding it myself, but then I saw that ceo took the orgasms out of osex for the moment, so I was gonna wait until they put them back in, whenever that is.

 

 

 

 

You can think of binding scenes to a hot key and player control like a utility the player can opt to use. Scenes can be planned to play out without player control automatically by the api. A scene can be fully automated, partly automatic then hand it off to the player, or you can restrict certain navigation options, for example if it's not time in the quest for full sex yet, any combination of those 3 work. OSA tracks everything down to every single sex thrust, OSA persona is meant to respond to these things, so it knows everything that's happening but OSex lacks orgasm animations to play in to the things you are describing. On the note of aroused, OSA has a different scope and some of these things are built into OSA, mainly it's persona system.

 

 

Do I understand it right, OSex has already it's own arousal system? Where exactly can I find those values? Where do I find them in game and how can I make a check on them, when writing a quest in creation kit. How does it work? Is there a tutorial for this? ( I  only found  tutorials about making animations when I followed your links, did I missed there something?  )

 

You say a scene can be semiautomatic. so can someone make a scene where you can only control the PC and can only react on what the NPC is doing ( and vice versa ) ?

 

 

To be fair, many mods that deal with, basically, the same things could be rolled into one library... basic sex is already there and works quite well in AA, so what's left are, say, two more for non consensual and bestial stuff.

 

...and, yes, the OSA still needs SKSE, so I don't see it working easily in the Special Edition either. 

 

 

I would not say that consensual stuff is covered with AA. AA is written clearly with a male PC in mind, so most of the AA stories don't work well when you play a female char. Especially when lesbian animations are missing. ( at least I don't get any when playing AA with a female char )   AA does not take arousal/speech checks etc into account, if you prefer mods where you can not always get what you want, and a NPC can  say "no". And prostitution mods for OSex are missing too.

 

However, if Skyrim 64bit is really such a big change it might make sense to wait for it to be out and adapt to this.