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0SEX/OSA and SexLab - trajectory?

gooser

By gooser,
in SexLab Framework

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LuffMeister

LuffMeister

Posted
Posted

Hard to say. The two systems feel quite different in my opinion. OSA feels a lot more hands-on, requiring constant user input, while Sexlab is more laid back.

 

I guess a good analogy would be directing a movie vs. watching a movie.

 

 

OSA works well, and is very polished, but it feels more like Daz3d than skyrim when using it...

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BeamerMiasma

BeamerMiasma

Posted
Posted

I really like the idea of moving away from papyrus to ActionScript.

 

I really don't like the idea of moving from papyrus to action script, I don't see any inherent problems with papyrus that action script can solve, and plenty possible issues for the reverse that may take months or years to iron out. Also, papyrus in my opinion is much more accessible for the majority of the Skyrim modding community.

 

Aside from that, I agree with LuffMeister's post. I see OSA more as an advanced end-user tool, and SL as an advanced mod creator tool. It's too bad the creator of OSA isn't more of a FO4 fan as it seems to me there's a bigger need for a good engine there. In Skyrim it's all just a bit of a "too little too late" feeling. With all due respect to the amount of work and skill that went into it mind you, it's not an inherent issue with the system, just a matter of timing.

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gooser

gooser

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I really like the idea of moving away from papyrus to ActionScript.

 

I really don't like the idea of moving from papyrus to action script, I don't see any inherent problems with papyrus that action script can solve, and plenty possible issues for the reverse that may take months or years to iron out. Also, papyrus in my opinion is much more accessible for the majority of the Skyrim modding community.

 

Aside from that, I agree with LuffMeister's post. I see OSA more as an advanced end-user tool, and SL as an advanced mod creator tool. It's too bad the creator of OSA isn't more of a FO4 fan as it seems to me there's a bigger need for a good engine there. In Skyrim it's all just a bit of a "too little too late" feeling. With all due respect to the amount of work and skill that went into it mind you, it's not an inherent issue with the system, just a matter of timing.

 

 

"Also, papyrus in my opinion is much more accessible for the majority of the Skyrim modding community"

 

What do you mean by that? Do you mean the tools are commonly available, because of CreationKit? I have to laugh at that. Yes, its true, I get a simple compiler, a simple language, and a buggy designer tool (CK). But they suck. I developed the Apropos widget using FlashDevelop. It was relatively easy. ActionScript is an ECMA standard. People who are web developers are going to find it much easier to develop in ActionScript than in Papyrus.

 

I've lost track on how many times Papyrus has shot me in the foot. Even Ashal has created bugs in SL by not remembering to return values from functions. The only structured datatype in Papyrus are fixed-length arrays. You have resort to SKSE plugins for "language extensions" like JContainers or PapyrusUtil to make some programming tasks even tenable.

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Versh

Versh

Posted
Posted

I don't see a real 'conflict' between those two mods:

 

SL is a good framework that could be used for quick scene / easy interactions or as general purpose to animate sex encounter for npcs, it gives you a 'good idea' of what happend.

Osex is more focused on specific/complex interactions (it happend THIS, THAT way, with THOSE, etc.)

 

Even with an autopilot a scene from the SL Defeat managed by Osex will be endless (5 bandits with PC & Follower? sometime even in SL is too much)

 

Also consider: Sl could easily manage animation with 5 Actor (Npcs and creature), make a threesome with the Osex is much more complex... Don't even think about foursome etc...

 

The two could really coexist and, in my opinion, is really needed a comunication between those two mods (for example pass a scene from SL to Osex and viceversa), or sharing the same keyword system (when possible), imho Ashal and Ceo are enough smart to have already understood that...

 

Together those mods could achieve something that alone they couldn't, due their respective structure.

 

 

A note about 0Sex on Fallout 4: I don't think that will be a real problem converting the system to Fallout...especially considering that, with the upgrade, Skyrim will use, probably, the engine of Fallout and the papyrus 'upgraded'. So actually the distance between those two will be really sort (but there will be other problems to solve).

 

 

Last: Osex is an application of OSA that have some other really interesting application, think about the OSA applied to a Killmove mod? when you fight there's a % of possibility to trigger a 'Duel scene' with cinematographic montion of pair animation.

Or even a whole Combat system

 

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BeamerMiasma

BeamerMiasma

Posted
Posted

 

 

I really like the idea of moving away from papyrus to ActionScript.

 

I really don't like the idea of moving from papyrus to action script, I don't see any inherent problems with papyrus that action script can solve, and plenty possible issues for the reverse that may take months or years to iron out. Also, papyrus in my opinion is much more accessible for the majority of the Skyrim modding community.

 

Aside from that, I agree with LuffMeister's post. I see OSA more as an advanced end-user tool, and SL as an advanced mod creator tool. It's too bad the creator of OSA isn't more of a FO4 fan as it seems to me there's a bigger need for a good engine there. In Skyrim it's all just a bit of a "too little too late" feeling. With all due respect to the amount of work and skill that went into it mind you, it's not an inherent issue with the system, just a matter of timing.

 

 

"Also, papyrus in my opinion is much more accessible for the majority of the Skyrim modding community"

 

What do you mean by that? Do you mean the tools are commonly available, because of CreationKit? I have to laugh at that. Yes, its true, I get a simple compiler, a simple language, and a buggy designer tool (CK). But they suck. I developed the Apropos widget using FlashDevelop. It was relatively easy. ActionScript is an ECMA standard. People who are web developers are going to find it much easier to develop in ActionScript than in Papyrus.

 

I've lost track on how many times Papyrus has shot me in the foot. Even Ashal has created bugs in SL by not remembering to return values from functions. The only structured datatype in Papyrus are fixed-length arrays. You have resort to SKSE plugins for "language extensions" like JContainers or PapyrusUtil to make some programming tasks even tenable.

 

 

With accessible I mean most TES modders already know it and it's easy to pick up if you have used similar scripting languages in other moddable games. You're not going to get rid of papyrus either, you still need that to tie into the game engine, so action script is something extra on top. The actual amount of papyrus code involving starting and controlling animations is minimal in most gameplay mods.

 

I certainly think there's a place for OSA, it seems the ideal tool for stuff like poser studios for screenshot artists, machinima tools, test tools for animators, for all of that it would (could) probably be a lot more flexible and easier to control than SL. For gameplay mods with adult content it's a different story though, it's just an extra layer on top.

 

As for the CK I never have any problems with it, I installed it years ago and have been working with it since without ever encountering problems. Although I imagine nobody would use the script editing functionality in the CK for more than a couple of lines in a TIF, that's what a decent text editor with syntax highlighting is for. I write all my code in UltraEdit, regardless of language (a bit of a quirky one perhaps but it's what I'm used to because history. Notepad+ offers the same functionality and would be the more common choice I imagine). Compiling papyrus I do on the command line. The only thing I do with papyrus in the CK is attaching scripts to objects and setting properties.

 

Bugs are just a fact of programming life. Even the best programmer is a human who makes mistakes.

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CEO 0S

CEO 0S

Posted
Posted

I think they don't compete because they serve completely different story telling methods, one might suit a project better then the other. I based the primary OSA module that I made on Sex so it gives it the appearance of a sex system but it's more of just an expanded set of tools for animators to use for whatever they are doing.

 

In my opinion a summary:

- SexLab is designed to allow developers to contribute to the features of the framework itself with plugins, and is focused just on sex so it has a more specific subject matter it can work towards. It has many plugins that are up to the user to decide on and has a unified and clear playback of scenes.

- OSA has to have major features compiled into it's single OSA.swf so adding on new stuff requires collaboration with me. It's benefit is that it let's animators customize their animated scenes using all the features OSA has available, and let's people setup the personality of characters, while you can add new personality and modules to OSA there's no way to really upgrade the system itself without working directly with me.

 

To clarify, the OSA engine is run in actionscript, but it is primarily a system that streams XML documents and reacts to that data. Usage of it is in creating by filling in xml documents combined with .hkx animations, or in using the OSA API to trigger OSA scenes with papyrus. To upgrade OSA and make it respond to new kinds of xml fields or do new things requires collaborating with me and incorporating it into it's single OSA.swf.

 

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NNS10

NNS10

Posted
Posted

I think they don't compete because they serve completely different story telling methods, one might suit a project better then the other. I based the primary OSA module that I made on Sex so it gives it the appearance of a sex system but it's more of just an expanded set of tools for animators to use for whatever they are doing.

 

[...]

 

To clarify, the OSA engine is run in actionscript, but it is primarily a system that streams XML documents and reacts to that data. Usage of it is in creating by filling in xml documents combined with .hkx animations, or in using the OSA API to trigger OSA scenes with papyrus. To upgrade OSA and make it respond to new kinds of xml fields or do new things requires collaborating with me and incorporating it into it's single OSA.swf.

 

Is OSA and actionscript more of a visual framework? Is it accurate to think that actionscript can't interact with game variables?

 

For example, SL Defeat can have a robbed event that causes items or gold to be stolen from the PC's inventory. Is that possible with actionscript? Or is OSA better thought of as a self-contained framework that can't affect things outside of it?

 

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CEO 0S

CEO 0S

Posted
Posted

 

 

Actionscript doesn't have a direct wire into papyrus variables and has to be requested with a modevent sent from the UI so it's not the most fluid part of the system. OSA gathers papyrus data preemptively when you start a scene or it becomes aware of an actor. What you described though is possible, do things before the scene > call the OSA scene > When it ends steal the money and do other things. The most basic API functions are similar between the two. I don't want to Hijack this thread though just wanted to speak on how I don't think they conflict and are two different things.

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ANGRYWOLVERINE

ANGRYWOLVERINE

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

Actionscript doesn't have a direct wire into papyrus variables and has to be requested with a modevent sent from the UI so it's not the most fluid part of the system. OSA gathers papyrus data preemptively when you start a scene or it becomes aware of an actor. What you described though is possible, do things before the scene > call the OSA scene > When it ends steal the money and do other things. The most basic API functions are similar between the two. I don't want to Hijack this thread though just wanted to speak on how I don't think they conflict and are two different things.

 

 

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ANGRYWOLVERINE

ANGRYWOLVERINE

Posted
Posted

I want to applaud CEO on the fine job he is doing. 

I do admit I just haven't gotten the hang of his system.I love Shiji and how he has shown how well the mod works and I hope to get into it at some point.

 

I don't see the two systems conflicting. I admit to liking the SL but it is hard to manipulate once it starts and sometimes seems clumsy. However it is easy to use. Where as OSEX appears to have a learning curve that may not be as convenient to learn as SL is.But visually it appears to be more elegant if I can use that term.

Not a criticism of either just my opinion.

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WaxenFigure

WaxenFigure

Posted
Posted

Actionscript doesn't have a direct wire into papyrus variables and has to be requested with a modevent sent from the UI so it's not the most fluid part of the system. OSA gathers papyrus data preemptively when you start a scene or it becomes aware of an actor. What you described though is possible, do things before the scene > call the OSA scene > When it ends steal the money and do other things. The most basic API functions are similar between the two. I don't want to Hijack this thread though just wanted to speak on how I don't think they conflict and are two different things.

Are you using any SKSE extensions?

 

If OSex requires no SKSE extensions it may be quickly portable to the new 64bit version of Skyrim and then the console users may become a huge new set of users.

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Rock&Rule

Rock&Rule

Posted
Posted

I can only comment on my perspective as a mod user. With the latest release I cleaned out my SL setup to see what it was all about. I picked up OSA, 0SEX along with Amorous Adventures and started a fresh play through. It took me a while to figure out the controls but I found a post mentioning the keypad and was up and running shortly after that. I found the experience to be pretty smooth transitioning between positions and enjoyed the fact that I could swap between both characters in the scene, It seems very fluid you can undress and redress on the fly the animations line up pretty nicely.

 

There seems to be a lot of potential here and hopefully it will attract a new generation of modders. The pros right now it seems to have a much smaller footprint I have made it pretty far into my current run with very few issues. With Win 10 I have gotten use to compressed memory errors and the occasional run time crash. I have seen neither so far but that is most likely due to a much smaller selection of animations then I have been running with. The biggest con right now is 0SEX really needs a climax or two to finish a scene. I guess you could be a better person then me and RP it. But for me it was sorely lacking a finish and I have started to skip scenes for Amorous quests or end it on a kiss.

 

I am looking forward to see what comes of it. I am leaving it in my game for right now as I said this is the longest run I've had in a while without major issues. I do think if the OSA plugins have to go through a vetting process it will be a much different experience from SL. With SL anyone can make add ons for it and you have some deniability with content that is created as people are just using the framework. With a more hands on approach by CEO I am thinking it will be a lot less Wild West and a bit tamer in the long run. I am not saying that could be a bad thing either as this is a much different experience.

 

 

P.S. -

I am missing my Apropos messages during scenes. :D

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Vuulgar

Vuulgar

Posted
Posted

I can only comment on my perspective as a mod user. With the latest release I cleaned out my SL setup to see what it was all about. I picked up OSA, 0SEX along with Amorous Adventures and started a fresh play through. It took me a while to figure out the controls but I found a post mentioning the keypad and was up and running shortly after that. I found the experience to be pretty smooth transitioning between positions and enjoyed the fact that I could swap between both characters in the scene, It seems very fluid you can undress and redress on the fly the animations line up pretty nicely.

 

There seems to be a lot of potential here and hopefully it will attract a new generation of modders. The pros right now it seems to have a much smaller footprint I have made it pretty far into my current run with very few issues. With Win 10 I have gotten use to compressed memory errors and the occasional run time crash. I have seen neither so far but that is most likely due to a much smaller selection of animations then I have been running with. The biggest con right now is 0SEX really needs a climax or two to finish a scene. I guess you could be a better person then me and RP it. But for me it was sorely lacking a finish and I have started to skip scenes for Amorous quests or end it on a kiss.

 

I am looking forward to see what comes of it. I am leaving it in my game for right now as I said this is the longest run I've had in a while without major issues. I do think if the OSA plugins have to go through a vetting process it will be a much different experience from SL. With SL anyone can make add ons for it and you have some deniability with content that is created as people are just using the framework. With a more hands on approach by CEO I am thinking it will be a lot less Wild West and a bit tamer in the long run. I am not saying that could be a bad thing either as this is a much different experience.

 

 

P.S. -

I am missing my Apropos messages during scenes. :D

 

I agree, its amazingly innovative and is a perfect fit for Amorous Adventures. I believe I have read CEO isnt interested in the more perverted side of LL with monsters and a Defeat replacer, I have wondered what that would be like...and for that matter someone is supposed to be making a combat module? I have played with it a little bit (twss), its easy to see why so many are interested.

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aim4it

aim4it

Posted
Posted

Speaking strictly as a user, not a developer, I prefer the hands off approach of SexLab. 0Sex is little too micromanage-y for me long term, but it does seem prefect for marriage/intimacy type mods, where its a min game of making your spouse happy.

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theHatzel

theHatzel

Posted
Posted

Speaking strictly as a user, not a developer, I prefer the hands off approach of SexLab. 0Sex is little too micromanage-y for me long term, but it does seem prefect for marriage/intimacy type mods, where its a min game of making your spouse happy.

 

I like the "hands on" aproach of oSex. but I must agree that with you have unconsensual situations or things like "the guard want's a blowjob before leting you enter on the city" works best with sexlab, unles oSex add a function of "pleasure", where to finish the quest properly you would need to fill the pleasure bar of the NPC.

But about sexlab mods featuring oSex, I would love if oSex had some compatibility with "beeing female" and if it could trigger orgasms, so this way we could make scenes like marring someone and trying to have a baby in a romantic atempt, in this point I think sexlab is more agressive. Actualy there's a lot of sexlab mods that could be triggered by oSex, maybe both developers could add on their framework a common variable or place where both say "now it's happening sex, now player had an orgasm, the orgasm was inside or outside or whatever". If they did this on the background of their mods we could actualy already start to explore the combination of both.

 

Imagine if you are having a oSex scene in the middle of whiterun and "cursed loot" recognizes that you are doing sex in a crowed place and you get imprisioned by public exposure? xD

 

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majorfreak

majorfreak

Posted
Posted

 

Actionscript doesn't have a direct wire into papyrus variables and has to be requested with a modevent sent from the UI so it's not the most fluid part of the system. OSA gathers papyrus data preemptively when you start a scene or it becomes aware of an actor. What you described though is possible, do things before the scene > call the OSA scene > When it ends steal the money and do other things. The most basic API functions are similar between the two. I don't want to Hijack this thread though just wanted to speak on how I don't think they conflict and are two different things.

Are you using any SKSE extensions?

 

If OSex requires no SKSE extensions it may be quickly portable to the new 64bit version of Skyrim and then the console users may become a huge new set of users.

 

i can imagine that happening for sure...so it's a good time for this mod to start gaining modder attention

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MRM18870

MRM18870

Posted
Posted

 

Speaking strictly as a user, not a developer, I prefer the hands off approach of SexLab. 0Sex is little too micromanage-y for me long term, but it does seem prefect for marriage/intimacy type mods, where its a min game of making your spouse happy.

 

I like the "hands on" aproach of oSex. but I must agree that with you have unconsensual situations or things like "the guard want's a blowjob before leting you enter on the city" works best with sexlab, unles oSex add a function of "pleasure", where to finish the quest properly you would need to fill the pleasure bar of the NPC.

 

 

 

IMHO the pleasure bar is a good idea. On top of that, I would like the option where you can only control your character, while the NPC is controlled by some sort of AI

 

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Grevok

Grevok

Posted
Posted

Hard to say. The two systems feel quite different in my opinion. OSA feels a lot more hands-on, requiring constant user input, while Sexlab is more laid back.

 

I guess a good analogy would be directing a movie vs. watching a movie.

 

 

OSA works well, and is very polished, but it feels more like Daz3d than skyrim when using it...

There's actually a way to get OSEX to perform a randomly generated set of events without any user input outside of pressing Num ENTER at the start of the scene. Which is a nice feature.

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