Devious Training

[skyrimfet]

9 minutes ago, lwanderer9 said:

No problem, thanks for clarifying, if there is a particular area/ feature you want me to test extensively, just ask, I have a load order with just the necessary dependencies so it should be accurate.

No, i have a list "TODO" - like feet, additional tats etc, script tuning and few MCM features.

I think that every feedback with odd mod behavior will be welcome. Just play and enjoy as much as possible

[Karandra K]

Do this new version recognizes DD4 elbowbinder as an armbinder? Previous version certainly don't.

[jungen]

Working fine so far, the additions are really  nice.

 

Only one thing, I have seen that you added an option to increase belly, boobs and butt size. The belly looks weird when you use this option and the three of them are constantly changing size, like it is updating constantly.

[ksd156]

I seem to be having an issue with the non-mayhem portion of the mod. While the mcm for mayhem works, and visual effects are applied, the mcm for "devious training 2" does not, and no stat changes are applied.

[donttouchmethere]

oh boy oh boy oh boy

its happening

[jungen]

Another thing, it looks like the ruined vagina has a different color than the rest of the body, the ruined asshole is fine, pretty nice by the way haha

[GrimReaperCalls]

Most things are working as far as I can tell, but elbowbinders still don't seem to be recognised by the mod. What keywords does DT look for when determining if something is an armbinder?

 

Edit:

Oh and, where is the setting for the "days in bondage" slave tats counter? I haven't seen it yet.

[ksd156]

5 hours ago, ksd156 said:

I seem to be having an issue with the non-mayhem portion of the mod. While the mcm for mayhem works, and visual effects are applied, the mcm for "devious training 2" does not, and no stat changes are applied.

Nevermind, seems to have been a bad install

[ksd156]

Working so far, great job. Something I would note is that bondage mittens tend to result in several 'ruined vagina/anus' lying on the ground, as they cannot be held onto when applied.

 

Would be interested to see if any catsuit/hobble skirt effects are planned.

[Rogwar002]

@skyrimfet You belong to my eternal hall of fame!

Just started (during last week) with your released version of Devious training (v2.6). After a few hours of gaming I went for your Beta release and started again. What a charm to play. From scriptlags big as a coffeebreak to fast as a shark (I saw your profile: von lahm wie eine Ente, zu sauschnell. In Deine Muttersprache kann ich leider nicht übersetzen, da müsste ich mal die Kollegen fragen ).

The visuals created by this mod during training are almost perfect. Right now I´m not getting the idea of getting a bigger head on behalf getting a smaller waist, but if I don´t go overboard with the slider for corsettraining everything is fine.  Found the reason for the bigger head using SLIF: your calculation between Spine1 bone and Spine2 is incorrect. When I max out the slider in DTM to 85, the bone slider has to be maximized in SLIF to 1.64 to gain the exact same hight of your toon without becoming bigheaded. Same result is DTM set to 70 and SLIF Spine2bone capped at 1.51. (Please keep in mind I didn´t count the pixels. Just used a ruler to measure the toon on the monitor standing in front of a cupboard in game).

This mod is next to YPS Devious & Immersive Fashion and Devious Cursed loot a Must Have from now in my load order.

If I could assist in any way (just read about some translation issues in this thread) I will. But have to tell you beforehand: I am able to use TESEdit and some other little helpers to find annoying game issues, but really have no clue with CK right now, but with a few hints for starters I can learn even that. I didn´t write any Papyrusscript myself right now because ... there was no need untill now *shrug*. Most texts written on this site are done without using a translation site, but I´m not a native speaker.

 

Keep this amazing mod alive. Thank you.

Regards

Rogwar

[Rogwar002]

Hi again.

Fiddeld around with the mod v3.0Dev. Some things I think are worth mentioning. More observations than bugs (okay a bug, too).

 

• Boots are already on your todo List as far as I read. Why not using the HDT possibilty to track the training of boots and shoes? Devious fashion does. You wrote this was your inspiration. You should think about this possibilty because it is kind of annoying putting on high heels and having devastated feet after the training succeeded. Perhaps making a toggle in the MCM for the non HDT users, if you want to keep it compatible.
• pinching the waist: after a lot of fiddling and mere hours of walking I got the idea of the body transform: Jessica Rabbit... But to get the whole picture without setting limits in SLIF every item has to be fully trained or you will have massive distortions in the look. The looks are going from Hulkbody and skinny legs to fat ass and needle sized head.
  There is a bug in it too: You can´t set the bra training in the Mayhem addon lower than one. It will fail to work and the setting is just automatically turned to zero.
  Perhaps a Bodymorph manipulation would be more appropiate. It would give more control, because the user would predefine the body and you would just manipulate the ingame sliders. Bodyslide is a must without question. Why not use the possibilty? There is a waistslider. If you manipulate it, there is the same result in changing this one than you do with three: spine1, spine2 and head.
• tattoos don´t update correctly when two of them are done in the same time: because of the weight increase after the day, there should be added cellulite and a mark for the day. The daymarker was missing after the update, because the cellulite came first. After that it stopped working, because of the 5 cellulite updates. In my opionion it is because my Oldrim is heavily modded and the update calls are following to soon. The slavetat eventbridge will do. To prevent such events just give them a break... Maybe just make one update per cycle.
• speed in pony mode....faster than a horse...really? okay it is magic, but please give it a slider or toggle or number to maximize the speed. I just turned the speedmult spell to inactive with TESedit, because this is really breaking the game. The +85 after all buffs are added is much to much. Little Sam is running like a formula one car. Less than 10 minutes from north to south or east to west. Think about all the mods. Hobble skirt and running in pony boots...yop... Prost But one good thing coming from this speedtest: Game is modded rocksolid

The other observations are personal taste. The picture of the analplug training will sure not leave my head a few days...*shudder* Thank god, it was just a toon...ugh.

 

Thanks for reading. Thanks for coding. Really some great ideas inside this mod.

 

Regards

Rogwar

[Lupine00]

I am definitely looking forward to trying this mod again. But where are people finding the beta download?

Was it on this forum somewhere?

[cnc4]

2 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

I am definitely looking forward to trying this mod again. But where are people finding the beta download?

Was it on this forum somewhere?

On 4/18/2018 at 2:23 AM, skyrimfet said:

<3

Hi again, ok

 

Now slow down and please read this short note - for everyone who want to try new concept of DT

At first -no clean save requied - i respect Your game and time - i will do always everything to prepare correct update procedures. so - just use mod manager and overwrite/put-after current 2.6 version and play.

 

I added 2th .esp file - DeviousTrainingMayhem - i separate simple mechanic from mod and visual effects - if You want enjoy visual effect please turn on DTM

During update all changes schould be removed via (DT) and added again via (DTM) - im planing to create good event based comunication for another moders. Devious Training Mayhem is a kind of proof of concept - but im going to keep it (in future im going to create also something for achivments - pony play etc - current pony play sucks)

 

Well - whats new whats out?

 

i removed feet (temporarily, it's dev version)

i removed tats related with long term DD waring (temporarily, it's dev version)

I added whip scars (progresive) - small chance to get scar(s) after whip (ZAZ) (about 80 stages) (should works also with ShautLikeAVirgin pony whipps)

I added ruined anus and vagina (long term plugs)

I tested all what i did but im personaly not using all confg combination. be ready that something works odd.

this version should works 1500% faster and better than old.

 

Why here, not as official?

 

Becouse after long break im not sure how much is TODO how much works good - IHMO 95% works fine - but I need to be sure.

Please let me know about Your feelings, opinion etc - please don't remind me about feet - i know it - im going to turn back all old effect's 

 

Some additional infos you can find here

Have a nice day!

 

 

Devious Training DEV.zip

 

 

[Rogwar002]

More messing around with v3.0dev:

 

The follower option is ... not good... Today Bijin Lydia was transformed into an alien. As soon as she is becoming my follower, DT is transforming the poor girl. Super small spine2 (0.44 in SLIF and murderous spine1 (1.8 if I remember correct). Of course I disabled the feature. She was just wearing her normal armor. I didn´t exactly look up why, because the followers are collected and brought to the next house. They are all stupid bitches to dumb to sneak. Useless. They can keep the garden nice or be sold in Slaverun.

 

Question to slave tats: You had a toggle in v2.6. This toggle is gone despite for whipmarks. The code is still in the scripts of Devious Training MCM, but not used in Mayhem. Hitting my toon in a battle does fire a slavetat event now, too. Why, to both events? Why did you hardcode 63 tats? And why does a hit count as a day? I was really happy with the Slavetat toggle, because yours doesn´t use the Slavetateventbridge it is gamebreaking in some situations. When slavetats is working during battle your toon is sometimes fucked. literally

I honestly don´t like the spine1 / spine2 result. The back of the toon in later Stages of corsettraining is looking like a male version in the shoulder area. Classical V-Shape.

 

currently I´m messing aroung with setting up the papyrus compiler. The slavetatbug is anoying me to the brink of sanity. I found the script responsible. Now I have to learn how to convert the psc to pex without getting errors because of missing varible settings. I have to look up the missing modder ressourses in my setup. Damn. Setup Notpad++ to look nice to read code was easy. Implement Notpad++ to CK... took a little bit of reading with MO running along... Make Notpad able to use Papyruscompiler...*sigh* If i just write "Hello World." it´s working... but yours...it seems to depend on things I never imagined I have active

How easy are things in TESedit, but TESedit and scripts...hmm...a little bit difficult. Next step: learn the language in detail. Can´t be to hard... Just a few pages...Who is laughing?

 

Skyrimfet, you´re killing me. But the idea is simply great and I can´t wait ro see your final version.

 

Kind regards

Rogwar

 

PS: the red one is the PC in stage 4. In Stage 6 it will be even more distorted when not stopped within SLIF. Don´t bother the height in this one. The toon has slaveboots on the feet. Height is of course a problem, too. The 1.4 factor is to much. I will try (if I get my compiler to do, what he should do) 1.3 and watch the results.

Maybe I will try to switch the bone you use for the waistscaling and show some results. BUT first the missing things in my setup have to be fixed. Today I learned about some mods, they were updated... This will take some time. And first of all: I will enjoy the game. I´m not a modder. I´m a user.

 

Spoiler

 

[Rogwar002]

I made a minor change in your dtmactor script. Perhaps you should have a look at the numbers. They fit a lot better and are less distorting. The Head / Neck distortion is gone. No ballonhead anymore. The heightproblem is solved this way, too. Your character will not shrink nor gain height in confusing amounts.

 

Kind regards

Rogwar

Spoiler

function updateWaist(int Slot, int LevelCorset = 0, int LevelHarness,  int LevelChastity = 0)
    
    Int all = LevelCorset + LevelChastity + LevelHarness
    
    
    float waistFactor = DTConfig.corsetScaleWaist as float + DTConfig.chastityBeltScaleWaist as float + DTConfig.harnessScaleWaist as float
        
    float value = ( 100 / 18 ) * all
    
    float reduction = value / 100
    
    reduction = reduction * (waistFactor as float/ 100) as float  ;max 0.5
    
        
    float sp1 = (1 - (reduction - (reduction * 0.25) ) ) ;changed value to reduce the spine1 a little less
    float sp2 = (1 + (reduction + (reduction * 0.25) ) ) ;changed value to reduce the spine2 in better correlation to spine1

    
    

    if DTConfig.modSlif == false
        if NiOverride.GetNodeTransformScale(npcs_ref[Slot],False,True,"NPC Spine1 [Spn1]","Devious Training Mayhem") != (sp1)
            NiOverride.AddNodeTransformScale(npcs_ref[Slot],False,True,"NPC Spine1 [Spn1]","Devious Training Mayhem", sp1)
            NiOverride.AddNodeTransformScale(npcs_ref[Slot],False,True,"NPC Spine2 [Spn2]","Devious Training Mayhem", sp2)
            NiOverride.UpdateNodeTransform(npcs_ref[Slot], false, True, "NPC Spine1 [Spn1]")
            NiOverride.UpdateNodeTransform(npcs_ref[Slot], false, True, "NPC Spine2 [Spn2]")
        endif
    else
            SLIF_Main.inflate(npcs_ref[Slot], "Devious Training Mayhem", "NPC Spine1 [Spn1]", sp1, -1, -1, "Devious Training Mayhem")
            SLIF_Main.inflate(npcs_ref[Slot], "Devious Training Mayhem", "NPC Spine2 [Spn2]", sp2, -1, -1, "Devious Training Mayhem")
    endIf
endFunction

function updateCollar(int Slot, int Level = 0)
	
	
	float neckFactor = DTConfig.collarScaleNeck as float
	
	float value = ( 100 / 6 ) * Level
		
	float reduction = value / 100
	
	reduction = reduction * (neckFactor as float/ 100) as float  ;max 0.5
			
	float neck = 1 + (reduction * 1.5)
	float head = 1 - (reduction * 1.5) ; subtracted the neck factor from head to avoid ballonhead
	
	
	if DTConfig.modSlif == false
		if NiOverride.GetNodeTransformScale(npcs_ref[Slot],False,True,"NPC Head [Head]","Devious Training Mayhem") != head
			NiOverride.AddNodeTransformScale(npcs_ref[Slot],False,True,"NPC Neck [Neck]","Devious Training Mayhem", neck)
			NiOverride.AddNodeTransformScale(npcs_ref[Slot],False,True,"NPC Head [Head]","Devious Training Mayhem", head)
			NiOverride.UpdateNodeTransform(npcs_ref[Slot], false, True, "NPC Neck [Neck]") 
			NiOverride.UpdateNodeTransform(npcs_ref[Slot], false, True, "NPC Head [Head]") 
		endif
	else
		SLIF_Main.inflate(npcs_ref[Slot], "Devious Training Mayhem", "NPC Neck [Neck]", neck, -1, -1, "Devious Training Mayhem")
		SLIF_Main.inflate(npcs_ref[Slot], "Devious Training Mayhem", "NPC Head [Head]", head, -1, -1, "Devious Training Mayhem")
	endif

 

 

[hfhkqidhs]

I would like to confirm Rogwar002's observations: the character's body is indeed getting changed in rather strange ways and the tattoo adding is bugged in 3.0 dev version. On a related note, I would also like to add that the mouth deformity (when being gagged is fully trained) is not very responsive in the dev version. Changing the values in MCM for the mouth does not change the degree to which the character's mouth is actually open/closed. I'm not sure if this is always the case, but on my end there certainly was some sort of an issue with this setting.

 

I would also like to propose separate settings in MCM for device buffs/debuffs. I like the idea of getting debuffs, but I don't want my character getting any buffs. There is at the moment a workaround of sorts: you can disable both the buffs/debuffs once all devices are fully trained (that is to say, in buff stage). But the problem with that is that all the devices are rarely trained at the same time. Your character can be fully trained in collar or gag and untrained in heels or corset. This problem would be solved if you could turn debuffs/buffs on/off separately.

[Rogwar002]

Papyrus is a bitch.

There  are typos in your MDTmenu script. The slider for chastity bra  is set to integer and it is floating point. It is not starting at zero and should start at 0.0 because you set as default 0.5 and scaled 0.1 step. Not working this way

The calculation you did for chastity bra can and will inflate your breasts. Intended? Weired to have balloned breasts from wearing a compressing belt

Did some math on that. To have an individual scale I used a slider with 30 steps, starting at 0.1 going to 3. Sliderstart is set to 0. Personal taste. This way I´m able to deactivate the transform and still having the fun of  (De)Buffs. You will have a maximum of 0.75 reduction and still have the factor 6 of the training levels.

float value = 1 - ( LevelChastityBra  * DTConfig.chastityBraScaleBreasts / 24 )

Slavetats is inactive... Scaling is working... Speedbuff has an accetable level... Log is clean... nice mod Thank you.

 

*narf* everything is working now, toon is looking good and I can´t play... pillow is calling. Damn. to understand this language it took more time, than I wanted to invest. How knows for what it is good for.

 

ok... one short dungeon dive...

 

Rogwar

[Lupine00]

Running the DEV version, all settings at default.

 

Got put in a full set of bondage by DCL. Was only in it for a few game hours.

Had two orgasms according to DTII actor stats, but the count was wrong, it was actually four.

 

Afterwards, character "weight" setting was down to 0.14 ... that's pretty low. I think I started with 0.4.

 

A large change, very fast.

 

Maybe not quite what was intended?

 

A lot of people don't bother to set up their BodySlide for min and max weights, and may not notice any effect from weight changes ... but I have mine set up for extreme values, so skinny characters are very thin, fat ones, very fat. Going from 0.4 down to 0.14 was a huge change in appearance, resulting in completely flat breasts and emaciated body, which I think is right for beggars etc. but hard to explain from a few hours of training.

[Rogwar002]

Steps are counting in @ Lupine00.

I set my weightslider in Bodyslide, too. I want to see the effect of Slaveruns inflating. But having a Devious training will decrease the steps again. Right now I set a 10 for gain and a 10 for Orgasm count. Currently I manage to hold weight, if I´m in Slaverun. But I will gain weight in a dungeon dive. Horrible was the Exhibistionist suit from DCL. I was a stick after that one... weightslider stuck at 0.0

Maybe from running, maybe from other things that happend

But you´re right: The loss of weight is happening pretty fast, unless you set a very high number of orgasms. On the other hand: you will gain pretty fast weight, too. One day and you can double your weight

If you set your gain to 10 and orgasms to 15 or more... maybe... Just a matter of balance.

regards

Rogwar

[Lupine00]

On 04/05/2018 at 1:54 AM, Rogwar002 said:

If you set your gain to 10 and orgasms to 15 or more... maybe... Just a matter of balance.

Firstly, my "steps" count would be low (I don't remember exactly how low, but I'd never left Whiterun the whole time).

Secondly, just a matter of balance?

 

Well sure. But the default settings are way out of balance when you can go from normal to emaciated by walking from Breezeholm to Belethor's and back and having sex four times.

 

My point was, that didn't seem to be a reasonable intention, and that perhaps the mod author had slipped somewhere by a factor of ten ... or maybe a hundred?

 

 

With Diet Based Butt, you can see these sort of problems, DBB and DTII have a weight-change design that is inherently unstable. It is prone to generating min and max values and is not able to settle on a mid-point.

 

Tweaking the values only mitigates the underlying flaw to an extent.

 

If the design is intended to make it so that you either balloon into a chubby blob, or waste away to a stick, with little chance of anything between, then it will likely achieve that quite well.

 

It's not impossible that was the intent. It's hard to imagine it was a complete accident ... particularly if the author is hoping the skinny outcome will produce the final result he has in mind.

 

But it won't look good with my Bodyslide. Won't look good with a lot of Bodyslide configs.

 

 

This leaves the player constantly tweaking MCM values, trying to get a good outcome, or forced to completely redo their Bodyslide around DTII's wants.

 

 

Maybe it would be better to let the player specify a weight-value (from 20 to 80) that they consider the default ideal, and create a system that continually tends towards that value unless you do something extreme? It can't range from 0 to 100, because if you pick a target at a limit, there's nowhere to go on the other side of it.

 

e.g. If the target weight is T, and you have sex over X times a day, you lose Y weight, on that day. But the next day, if you don't have sex over X times, and you weigh less than T, then you gain Y/2 weight. If you walk less than W steps a day, you gain Z weight, on that day, but the next day, only if you walk less W or more steps, and weigh more than T, you lose Z/2 weight. The system is self correcting, but if you behave far outside the norms it can still result in a continuing deviation from the ideal weight.

 

That's just a simple example. A more sophisticated proposal would use logarithmic changes, because a linear change system makes extreme values easy to produce.

[Rogwar002]

5 hours ago, Lupine00 said:

e.g. If the target weight is T, and you have sex over X times a day, you lose Y weight, on that day. But the next day, if you don't have sex over X times, and you weigh less than T, then you gain Y/2 weight. If you walk less than W steps a day, you gain Z weight, on that day, but the next day, only if you walk less W or more steps, and weigh more than T, you lose Z/2 weight. The system is self correcting, but if you behave far outside the norms it can still result in a continuing deviation from the ideal weight.

You´re correct.

 

But given what we have from Bethesda refering this issue (nothing), every idea is something

I start to understand, what a mod author has to struggle with, the limited ressources given. A small typo (a missing point) sent the whole breast in a bra calculation to heaven. I had to look a couple of minutes, to just understand what was happening before my eyes. Correcting the typo and the little toon balloned beyond imagination...

 

Regards

Rogwar

[snagglepup]

I'm trying to update to the new version and it says to uninstall from the menu before installing the new version, but the uninstall option won't work?

[Lupine00]

11 hours ago, Rogwar002 said:

But given what we have from Bethesda refering this issue (nothing), every idea is something

I don't think this is really Beth's fault. It's the mod's fault.

 

The problem with DTII's "Mayhem" is that it's a complex system with interactions between several variables, many of which are tricky to test alone.

 

This creates the test explosion problem, instead of needing to test N cases, the author has to test N x W x X x Y x Z cases.

This becomes too many cases to test, and so they aren't properly tested at all, and it's left to users to report bugs instead.

As this is a DEV version, we expect it, but the previous "release" version had similar issues.

 

The fix to this the author needs to do one or both of the following:

 

(a) redesign features to be better separable.

(b) add test functionality to mod, so you can click buttons on the MCM debug page to simulate eating, walking steps, having sex, etc.

 

 

Approach (b) has the benefit of encouraging a cleaner design, where code to handle a particular action doesn't get cut+paste duplicated across a dozen fragments (as certain mods do). One thing I've seen in mod after mod, is that they cut+paste duplicate the same code across many fragments (probably thinking it helps performance), and it results in maintenance nightmares and niggling bugs that take multiple releases to fix.

 

 

Realistically, if the only way to test the mod is to put on all the items and faff around in real time, it will take about four years to get reasonably sorted.

[Lupine00]

I notice that DTII is not SL Parasites aware.  Parasites often make clanking or jingling noises that are not entirely appropriate.

 

I guess you can't explicitly support every mod that adds devices, but Parasites is fairly well known, so maybe it could be considered?

[Chwbccah]

So, I tried to uninstall/disable the mod in order to figure out what was causing CTDs, and now my character's skin is blue and won't change unless I reactivate the mod. Any help?