Is everything OK with the future of SOS?

[prinyo]

So it seems there have been some drama around SAM. 

I don't really want to know details and I'm not going to provide the links (it is easy to find posts on several sites).

My question is - should we expect complications with SOS? And should we be prepared for SOS related mods to disappear? 

There are so many mods in the SOS ecosystem, something like what is going on with SAM now would have way more serious effect...

 

Short explanation. 

Since yesterday there is an EULA  about using and modding SAM

http://www.ladymoiraine.com/index.php?/forums/topic/6561-sam-eula-if-youre-a-modder-please-read/

 

It says :

"In case you wish to modify any part of SAM - Shape Atlas for Men, you will require written approval from VectorPlexus."

This means each and every mod that includes any asset from SAM (meshes, textures, tri files, hkx) has to be approved by VectorPlexus. And if he says "no" (that he might do without giving a reason it seems) then the mod can't be published.

 

Since SOS is also originally done by VectorPlexus and is now hosted here on LL but has lots of derivative mods on Nexus it would be nice if we get some more information about it's future.

 

 

 

P.S. Not related to the question, but the EULA also says:

"[you can't] use SAM - Shape Atlas for Men to create any questionable content that depict or promote harassment, racism, rape, bestiality or child abuse."

That would mean that starting yesterday using SAM as a body replacer with half of the mods here on LL is illegal. The way I read it using it as a body replacer for the Stormcloacks is also illegal (racism). :-)

[multfilm]

You may do what you want with SAM or SOS as long as you do not post mods with them in forbidden content.

[prinyo]

You may do what you want with SAM or SOS as long as you do not post mods with them in forbidden content.

 

 

As I said - this is no longer true for SAM since yesterday.

[Kimy]

P.S. Not related to the question, but the EULA also says:

"[you can't] use SAM - Shape Atlas for Men to create any questionable content that depict or promote harassment, racism, rape, bestiality or child abuse."

That would mean that starting yesterday using SAM as a body replacer with half of the mods here on LL is illegal. The way I read it using it as a body replacer for the Stormcloacks is also illegal (racism). :-)

 

Mind you that no EULA he can ever come up with can prevent you from merely installing SAM together with mods he finds questionable. This EULA applies only when actually -using- his assets, e.g. bundling them with your own mod or making use of them via a dependency. For example, since Cursed Loot includes non-consensual sex, I am now barred from setting dependencies on SAM or bundling its assets - but my mod doesn't do either, so nobody here needs to care about his EULA when using my mod. I am not having any direct dependency on SOS either. Most content mods don't, really. It's actually a big smoke screen. The mods he's targeting have no reason to make any direct use of his assets. Most sex mods don't care about whether or not the male body mods are fully functional, or not. Even SexLab itself doesn't.

 

[prinyo]

I'm mostly talking about his right to approve/disapprove mods. For example this led to a mod that I used to use when I was using SAM to be removed. 

I was wondering if such kind of approval will come to the SOS related mods as well. 

 

P.S. A link - http://mmoboys.tumblr.com/post/145616411927/as-of-today-my-sam-texture-mod-has-been-banned

[Kimy]

I'm mostly talking about his right to approve/disapprove mods. For only one day this led to a mod that I used to use when I was using SAM to be removed. 

I was wondering if such kind of approval will come to the SOS related mods as well. 

 

I guess my point was that there is next to no mod here that would have to ask for permission in the first place. There is hardly any that makes direct use of either SOS or SAM assets.

[spoonsinger]

Re:- original posters link.

 

"In case you wish to modify any part of SAM - Shape Atlas for Men, you will require written approval from VectorPlexus." doesn't seem to be on the page I just saw. Maybe removed?. Actually the page just looks a standard Adult content type page with appropriate warnings. I didn't go further into the site because I'm shy. (also don't like the SAM body shape).

[prinyo]

Well, there are lots of outfits, lots of custom schlongs and textures and such. There are quite a lot of files here and on Nexus that use SOS.

Re:- original posters link.

 

"In case you wish to modify any part of SAM - Shape Atlas for Men, you will require written approval from VectorPlexus." doesn't seem to be on the page I just saw. Maybe removed?. Actually the page just looks a standard Adult content type page with appropriate warnings. I didn't go further into the site because I'm shy. (also don't like the SAM body shape).

 

[Kimy]

Well, there are lots of outfits, lots of custom schlongs and textures and such. There are quite a lot of files here and on Nexus that use SOS.

 

Yeah, and ironically none of these can violate his EULA. All of the ones I can think of just modify assets. They add no quest content etc.

[prinyo]

 

Well, there are lots of outfits, lots of custom schlongs and textures and such. There are quite a lot of files here and on Nexus that use SOS.

 

Yeah, and ironically none of these can violate his EULA. All of the ones I can think of just modify assets. They add no quest content etc.

 

 

This is the mod that was banned - aretexture mod and got me thinking about this. 

http://mmoboys.tumblr.com/post/145616411927/as-of-today-my-sam-texture-mod-has-been-banned

 

It also doesn't violate the EULA in any way. Note that the permission can be given or not with or without a reason. 

And as the post mentions SOS it got me actually worried as my Skyrim setup depends a lot on SOS based mods.

 

 

This also opens another question for me. I have a huge mod that uses EVB for FO4 but I didn't realize that I need to contact Leito86 about it... Or do I need to? 

[spoonsinger]

Well, there are lots of outfits, lots of custom schlongs and textures and such. There are quite a lot of files here and on Nexus that use SOS.

Re:- original posters link.

 

"In case you wish to modify any part of SAM - Shape Atlas for Men, you will require written approval from VectorPlexus." doesn't seem to be on the page I just saw. Maybe removed?. Actually the page just looks a standard Adult content type page with appropriate warnings. I didn't go further into the site because I'm shy. (also don't like the SAM body shape).

 

sam.jpg

 

Good point, but like I said I didn't go further. So the contents which I saw from the link was:-

 

 

Hall of Torque Important Disclaimer

PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING

The material you are about to see contains adult-oriented and sexually explicit graphics. The content within contains images of nude adults, some of them engaging in sexual acts. Access is made avaliable only to those who accept the terms of the following agreement:

1. I do not find images of nude adults, adults engaged in sexual acts or other sexual material to be offensive or objectionable.
2. I am at least 18 years of age and have the legal right to possess adult material in my country and community.
3. I understand the standards and laws of this community, this site and the computer to which I may transport material, and am solely responsible for my actions.
4. If I use these services in violation of the above agreement, I understand I may be in violation of local and/or federal laws.
5. “Bookmarking” a page on this website, whereby this warning page is bypassed, shall constitute an implicit acceptance of the foregoing terms herein set forth.
6. Entering this website, by following the link below, will constitute acceptance of these terms, and will result in a “cookie” being stored in my browser to record this fact for future visits to this website. These terms will not be displayed while this cookie is present.

I accept. Enter website.

 

 

 

 

Now you have burnt my eyes with sexual stuff more sexual than I ever considered a law suit is coming your way. (actually no idea if that is possible, or even if I could be bothered, or if I'm just wasting time typing crap).

 

[Kimy]

 

 

Well, there are lots of outfits, lots of custom schlongs and textures and such. There are quite a lot of files here and on Nexus that use SOS.

 

Yeah, and ironically none of these can violate his EULA. All of the ones I can think of just modify assets. They add no quest content etc.

 

 

This is the mod that was banned - aretexture mod and got me thinking about this. 

http://mmoboys.tumblr.com/post/145616411927/as-of-today-my-sam-texture-mod-has-been-banned

 

It also doesn't violate the EULA in any way. Not that the permission can be given or not with or without a reason. 

And as the post mentions SOS it got me actually worried as my Skyrim setup depends a lot on SOS based mods.

 

 

This also opens another question for me. I have a huge mod that uses EVB for FO4 but I didn't realize that I need to contact Leito86 about it... Or do I need to? 

 

 

Well, on LL, the person deciding on what gets removed is Ashal. But personally, I do not think he needs to feel obliged to apply EULA changes -retroactively-. Nobody is. But yes, if similar changes are being made to SOS, mods changing textures or adding assets to it would need to ask for permission -from that day on-. Still, no content mod I can think of ever would have to ask for that. This EULA is shooting at stuff it can't even hit.

 

In the end..

 

...don't panic!

 

[prinyo]

 

 

Well, on LL, the person deciding on what gets removed is Ashal. But personally, I do not think he needs to feel obliged to apply EULA changes -retroactively-. Nobody is. But yes, if similar changes are being made to SOS, mods changing textures or adding assets to it would need to ask for permission -from that day on-. Still, no content mod I can think of ever would have to ask for that. This EULA is shooting at stuff it can't even hit.

 

In the end..

 

...don't panic!

 

 

 

Well, in theory that sound good, in practice there is already a mod banned. So I'm panicking... If the theory says "no", but the practice says "yes" then ...

For Nexus and LM it seems they apply "EULA changes -retroactively". So I'm asking about LL and SOS.

 

It also kind of sets a precedent as far as I'm aware of the power a mod author seeks to have on future modifications. I'm not saying it is good or bad, but in the context of the continuing console mods drama this makes me panic even more.

[27X]

 

 

Well, there are lots of outfits, lots of custom schlongs and textures and such. There are quite a lot of files here and on Nexus that use SOS.

 

Yeah, and ironically none of these can violate his EULA. All of the ones I can think of just modify assets. They add no quest content etc.

 

 

This is the mod that was banned - aretexture mod and got me thinking about this. 

http://mmoboys.tumblr.com/post/145616411927/as-of-today-my-sam-texture-mod-has-been-banned

 

It also doesn't violate the EULA in any way. Note that the permission can be given or not with or without a reason. 

And as the post mentions SOS it got me actually worried as my Skyrim setup depends a lot on SOS based mods.

 

 

This also opens another question for me. I have a huge mod that uses EVB for FO4 but I didn't realize that I need to contact Leito86 about it... Or do I need to? 

 

 

Considering where you hosted it, yes you do and yeah you should, and yeah you should attach said permission, because Nexus will yank shit on exactly zero provocation or context.

 

[prinyo]

 

 

This also opens another question for me. I have a huge mod that uses EVB for FO4 but I didn't realize that I need to contact Leito86 about it... Or do I need to? 

 

 

Considering where you hosted it, yes you do and yeah you should, and yeah you should attach said permission, because Nexus will yank shit on exactly zero provocation or context.

 

 

 

Before I uploaded the mod I read the description of EVB where it says: 

"Q:  Can I use the assets from this mod in my mod?

A:  Yes."

 

Now, if he decides in a whim to retroactively change the permissions (like it is happening with SAM) any such permission that you talk about would be pointless as he will say he changed his mind and the mod will still be deleted (like what happened with SAM)

In an environment where any MA can obliterate the work and effort of other MA with the support of the hosting sites (LM and Nexus) the community will slowly die.

[27X]

And the moral and legal aspects are not in any way related to each other, and pulling the "it's for the people guys, be good" doesn't mean shit to the Nexus staff, you know this, I know this.

 

Just stick what you've posted there on the end of your mod in a permissions block and call it good, or contact leito, which takes all of five seconds and have everything square at every level.

 

It's not like leito fell off the earth or something.

[prinyo]

And the moral and legal aspects are not in any way related to each other, and pulling the "it's for the people guys, be good" doesn't mean shit to the Nexus staff, you know this, I know this.

 

Just stick what you've posted there on the end of your mod in a permissions block and call it good, or contact leito, which takes all of five seconds and have everything square at every level.

 

It's not like leito fell off the earth or something.

 

 

Not sure how this is related.

What we are talking about is obviously given permission that is "ungiven" at a later stage. The FO4 mod is simply an example. As far as I'm concerned I acted perfectly within the moral and legal boundaries. I did have a slip by forgetting to credit another MA and I corrected that as soon as I became aware of it.

[Numerals]

 

 

P.S. Not related to the question, but the EULA also says:

"[you can't] use SAM - Shape Atlas for Men to create any questionable content that depict or promote harassment, racism, rape, bestiality or child abuse."

That would mean that starting yesterday using SAM as a body replacer with half of the mods here on LL is illegal. The way I read it using it as a body replacer for the Stormcloacks is also illegal (racism). :-)

 

 

You're not reading the most important bits of that ridiculously-long EULA.

 

Let me give you the two most important things from that otherwise-meaningless wall of text:

"VectorPlexus may, in its sole discretion, at any time and for any or no reason, suspend or terminate this Agreement with or without prior notice.

 

[...]

 

Upon termination of this Agreement, you shall cease all use of SAM - Shape Atlas for Men and delete all copies of it."

 

 

Which is basically "I can screw with you at any time I please for whatever reason I want". The rest of that text wall may as well be deleted.

[Zor2k13]

Then don't use his dam mods anymore, fuck that shit and find something else or create something else. The only problem with creating something else right now is everyone is pissed and some people like drama and boohoo butthurtz like it is some kind of entertainment. We won't see the end of this shit untl maybe next year when all the political turmoil has ended. People are always stirred up during an electioneering year:-(

 

I noticed that follower reiko is gone from nexus both versions of it made by leito86 good thing I downloaded it a while back:-) Do I want to upload it somewhere else and abuse it? NO but some people out there do and that is the primary problem right now for a lot of mod authors of big mods.

[Numerals]

Then don't use his dam mods anymore, fuck that shit and find something else or create something else. The only problem with creating something else right now is everyone is pissed and some people like drama and boohoo butthurtz like it is some kind of entertainment. We won't see the end of this shit untl maybe next year when all the political turmoil has ended. People are always stirred up during an electioneering year:-(

 

I don't. As a matter of fact I've never used SAM. And after all this crap? I sure as hell isn't going to touch it with a ten-foot pole.

 

 

 

I noticed that follower reiko is gone from nexus both versions of it made by leito86 good thing I downloaded it a while back:-) Do I want to upload it somewhere else and abuse it? NO but some people out there do and that is the primary problem right now for a lot of mod authors of big mods.

 

Personal experience: Taking down the legit source is a surefire way to spawn 10 unauthorized uploads, most of which being completely out of the author's reach and/or knowledge to take down.

 

I don't care how legitimately upset or butthurt they are. By removing the only legitimate source, they're pretty much forcing everyone to use underground channels to obtain the mod in question.

[RitualClarity]

 

 

 

This also opens another question for me. I have a huge mod that uses EVB for FO4 but I didn't realize that I need to contact Leito86 about it... Or do I need to? 

 

 

Considering where you hosted it, yes you do and yeah you should, and yeah you should attach said permission, because Nexus will yank shit on exactly zero provocation or context.

 

 

 

Before I uploaded the mod I read the description of EVB where it says: 

"Q:  Can I use the assets from this mod in my mod?

A:  Yes."

 

Now, if he decides in a whim to retroactively change the permissions (like it is happening with SAM) any such permission that you talk about would be pointless as he will say he changed his mind and the mod will still be deleted (like what happened with SAM)

In an environment where any MA can obliterate the work and effort of other MA with the support of the hosting sites (LM and Nexus) the community will slowly die.

 

 

Interesting... Now Besthesda requires a DMCA request to remove their content. I imagine if you can prove (with a copy of the original license or communication / permission) that such acts were allowed... they would refuse removal of the mod as it would still be legal (under the "old" permissions" ) now however going forward... it might not be considering the current statements.

 

 

 

[RitualClarity]

Then don't use his dam mods anymore, fuck that shit and find something else or create something else. The only problem with creating something else right now is everyone is pissed and some people like drama and boohoo butthurtz like it is some kind of entertainment. We won't see the end of this shit untl maybe next year when all the political turmoil has ended. People are always stirred up during an electioneering year:-(

 

I noticed that follower reiko is gone from nexus both versions of it made by leito86 good thing I downloaded it a while back:-) Do I want to upload it somewhere else and abuse it? NO but some people out there do and that is the primary problem right now for a lot of mod authors of big mods.

I agree on not using any mods or resources from any author with such EULA regardless of legality or reason. If permissions has been given those permissions are un-revokable in my opinion going forward. Now future editions, corrections, alterations etc after (to the original source say... update or corrections) can be restricted. Given permission to use some assets can be considered to be a One time permission at the current time and under those current rules. At least as far as I am concerned. EULA like this is something to avoid and can and should be ignored by any mod author developing armors, or other assets.

 

 

Then don't use his dam mods anymore, fuck that shit and find something else or create something else. The only problem with creating something else right now is everyone is pissed and some people like drama and boohoo butthurtz like it is some kind of entertainment. We won't see the end of this shit untl maybe next year when all the political turmoil has ended. People are always stirred up during an electioneering year:-(

 

I don't. As a matter of fact I've never used SAM. And after all this crap? I sure as hell isn't going to touch it with a ten-foot pole.

 

 

 

I noticed that follower reiko is gone from nexus both versions of it made by leito86 good thing I downloaded it a while back:-) Do I want to upload it somewhere else and abuse it? NO but some people out there do and that is the primary problem right now for a lot of mod authors of big mods.

 

Personal experience: Taking down the legit source is a surefire way to spawn 10 unauthorized uploads, most of which being completely out of the author's reach and/or knowledge to take down.

 

I don't care how legitimately upset or butthurt they are. By removing the only legitimate source, they're pretty much forcing everyone to use underground channels to obtain the mod in question.

 

Yep... Now they will have a very hard time keeping that mod out as well as cause problems for others that have resources connected with that mod (which also will have to be removed by the rules of the EULA) So not only will the source have problems but all the other authors that spent time and effort helping develop resources for that mod.

 

This only aids and fuels those that believe pirating and distribution of mods are free and should always be free (ignore the author's rights not free as in not charged.. just to be clear) Those people will see this as a justification to just blindly distribute whatever the fuck they desire.

 

Having rules and giving permissions along with properly crediting work is good. Being abusive of EULA, permissions etc will only damage the progress that has been made.

 

[27X]

 

 

 

 

This also opens another question for me. I have a huge mod that uses EVB for FO4 but I didn't realize that I need to contact Leito86 about it... Or do I need to? 

 

 

Considering where you hosted it, yes you do and yeah you should, and yeah you should attach said permission, because Nexus will yank shit on exactly zero provocation or context.

 

 

 

Before I uploaded the mod I read the description of EVB where it says: 

"Q:  Can I use the assets from this mod in my mod?

A:  Yes."

 

Now, if he decides in a whim to retroactively change the permissions (like it is happening with SAM) any such permission that you talk about would be pointless as he will say he changed his mind and the mod will still be deleted (like what happened with SAM)

In an environment where any MA can obliterate the work and effort of other MA with the support of the hosting sites (LM and Nexus) the community will slowly die.

 

 

Interesting... Now Besthesda requires a DMCA request to remove their content. I imagine if you can prove (with a copy of the original license or communication / permission) that such acts were allowed... they would refuse removal of the mod as it would still be legal (under the "old" permissions" ) now however going forward... it might not be considering the current statements.

 

 

 

 

Dark0ne has already flatly stated that any "infringing" mod will be taken down posthaste, regardless of "legal standing" once theft is proven by simple sight. The original mod author retains all rights, period. B.Net is the exact opposite where the mod author has to provide a DMCA verification, and the abuser isn't even penalized on their account at this point.

 

Two of the boggest mods on B.net took 9 nine days to take down, but Beth was literally able to ring Dark0ne personally in the middle of the night to get far harbor pulled from Nexus within 40 minutes, sight unseen.

 

Small wonder people are pissed the fuck off.

 

Bethesda doesn't get modding. At all. They are one of the most insulated and out of touch devs on planet earth and it shows in spades.

[RitualClarity]

 

d the abuser isn't even penalized on their account at this point.

They are suppose to be banning them from the site or at least ability to upload. Which yes they should have done before.

 

I stated this as if someone does try to abuse and retroactively remove permissions someone that has permissions (and proper records of it etc) would have a very hard time removing it if it is truly legal works. Likely the reason for the new EULA being created now that I think of it.

 

 

Small wonder people are pissed the fuck off.

Yes.. they really screwed the pooch on this one... They really needed to get their act together. At least gather info from Nexus and some of the other major communities onhow they handled the mods and claims etc and start with that... then later if they felt the need change the rules as they grow. Many sites do this as needs arise. but not having a proper course of action... pitiful.

 

 

Bethesda doesn't get modding. At all. They are one of the most insulated and out of touch devs on planet earth and it shows in spades.

Yes... they are pretty "out there" and this is coming from an alien..

 

There is a post that was captured where he (VS) is trying to explain that he just wanted to protect his works and there was 1 person that set this all off. Perhaps later when things calm down and he guest more comfortable he will relax the rules etc. Still scary though. I believe this move will damage future development of his product at least outside of his chosen few from his site because I can't see any mod author in his /her right mid using anything from SAM going forward anywhere else but on his site. Which might be what he is desiring. Might just be what he wanted.

 

Would be nice if he come here and Chimed in on the subject to at least give his side of the subject. AS much as  we might not like what is going on and hate what he did and is doing he does still have the right to make a public statement.. which I can't find any as his site is locked up tight.

[D_ManXX2]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This also opens another question for me. I have a huge mod that uses EVB for FO4 but I didn't realize that I need to contact Leito86 about it... Or do I need to? 

 

 

Considering where you hosted it, yes you do and yeah you should, and yeah you should attach said permission, because Nexus will yank shit on exactly zero provocation or context.
 

 

 

Before I uploaded the mod I read the description of EVB where it says: 

"Q:  Can I use the assets from this mod in my mod?

A:  Yes."

 

Now, if he decides in a whim to retroactively change the permissions (like it is happening with SAM) any such permission that you talk about would be pointless as he will say he changed his mind and the mod will still be deleted (like what happened with SAM)

In an environment where any MA can obliterate the work and effort of other MA with the support of the hosting sites (LM and Nexus) the community will slowly die.

 

 

Interesting... Now Besthesda requires a DMCA request to remove their content. I imagine if you can prove (with a copy of the original license or communication / permission) that such acts were allowed... they would refuse removal of the mod as it would still be legal (under the "old" permissions" ) now however going forward... it might not be considering the current statements.

 

 

 

 

Dark0ne has already flatly stated that any "infringing" mod will be taken down posthaste, regardless of "legal standing" once theft is proven by simple sight. The original mod author retains all rights, period. B.Net is the exact opposite where the mod author has to provide a DMCA verification, and the abuser isn't even penalized on their account at this point.

 

Two of the boggest mods on B.net took 9 nine days to take down, but Beth was literally able to ring Dark0ne personally in the middle of the night to get far harbor pulled from Nexus within 40 minutes, sight unseen.

 

Small wonder people are pissed the fuck off.

 

Bethesda doesn't get modding. At all. They are one of the most insulated and out of touch devs on planet earth and it shows in spades.

 

 

 

Well they should have done the same to bethesda back they have to prove they created farharbor with dmca and then the mod would be taken down. that should have hurt there sales even more.