HDT SMP

[Caelryn]

So I recently stumbled across something that's called HDT SMP (Skinned Mesh Physics). There are several threads about it here on the forum but most of them are not really up to date anymore. Therefore my questions are: How far along is the progress with this new HDT system? Is it still being developed? I can't seem to find any armor conversions for SMP, so I guess it's not publicly released yet?

[27X]

There is no progress.

 

No it is not being still developed.

 

There is no need to convert it, it supports impulse resolve/bounce "natively" (the fact you're asking without having known that says you're probably not the person who should be using it).

 

SMP is quite literally DIY physics, and if you're not really into writing your own xmls or testing stuff for hours on end yourself, PE is probably where you should be sniffing around)

 

Most of the implementations of SMP (in fact all of them but one) in the SMP thread you apparently didn't read very much of are actually just PE proxies to begin with.

 

SMP is also extremely problematic versus ENBoost and memory allocation/allotment, including crashfix and SKSE/Sheson's patch.

 

 

[aquaraider11]

There is no progress.

 

1. No it is not being still developed.

 

2.  PE is probably where you should be sniffing around)

 

 

1. That's a shame, it should be still developed, as its slightly broken and very unfinished.

 

2. I have to disagree as anyone who does not already have HCT can never legally  acquire it, same goes for users who allready have HCT but i dont think they care if its legal or not.

 

So if our OP here ever wants to do anything but install mods, he is gona have shitty time googling HDT PE quides 'til he notices he cant do it.

 

 

(HCT is no longer publicly available, and thus HDT SMP was developed to use bullet physics and not need HCT)

[LovePussyMods]

 

There is no progress.

 

1. No it is not being still developed.

 

2.  PE is probably where you should be sniffing around)

 

 

1. That's a shame, it should be still developed, as its slightly broken and very unfinished.

 

2. I have to disagree as anyone who does not already have HCT can never legally  acquire it, same goes for users who allready have HCT but i dont think they care if its legal or not.

 

So if our OP here ever wants to do anything but install mods, he is gona have shitty time googling HDT PE quides 'til he notices he cant do it.

 

 

(HCT is no longer publicly available, and thus HDT SMP was developed to use bullet physics and not need HCT)

 

Ummm....ok..

Of course HCT isn't available. IT DOESN'T EXIST AND NEVER HAS...you might as well Google where you can buy flying pink elephants...

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/53996/?

 

Stop making up crap if you have no idea what your talking about. Wisdom begins by using "I Don't Know"

[blueballbob]

So I recently stumbled across something that's called HDT SMP (Skinned Mesh Physics). There are several threads about it here on the forum but most of them are not really up to date anymore. Therefore my questions are: How far along is the progress with this new HDT system? Is it still being developed? I can't seem to find any armor conversions for SMP, so I guess it's not publicly released yet?

 

HDT is kind of on hold until the SKSE64 is released, then I think it'll be continuing for Special Edition and not for the OldRim.  If you want to try the SMP body it's pretty easy at http://www.loverslab.com/topic/68009-hdtskinnedmeshphysics-binarys-xmls-bodymeshes-new-uunp-and-sam/

 

If it doesn't work at first make sure you followed the directions.  If it still doesn't work, look for the .xml files that came with the package in Notepad++ and do a find/replace across all of them for comma , and replace the comma with a period . . At least that worked for me.

 

SMP is much less 'glitchy' that the HDT PE is.  Plus it's got much better collision detection so you get more realistic bounce and response to touch or other part of the body. 

 

Issues are that not all the legacy HDT armor and objects will work with it.  So far a majority of my armors I use DO work, (like remodeled armor and bikini armors) but some of the older DeserterX HDT armor doesn't.

[aquaraider11]

 

 

There is no progress.

 

1. No it is not being still developed.

 

2.  PE is probably where you should be sniffing around)

 

 

1. That's a shame, it should be still developed, as its slightly broken and very unfinished.

 

2. I have to disagree as anyone who does not already have HCT can never legally  acquire it, same goes for users who allready have HCT but i dont think they care if its legal or not.

 

So if our OP here ever wants to do anything but install mods, he is gona have shitty time googling HDT PE quides 'til he notices he cant do it.

 

 

(HCT is no longer publicly available, and thus HDT SMP was developed to use bullet physics and not need HCT)

 

Ummm....ok..

Of course HCT isn't available. IT DOESN'T EXIST AND NEVER HAS...you might as well Google where you can buy flying pink elephants...

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/53996/?

 

Stop making up crap if you have no idea what your talking about. Wisdom begins by using "I Don't Know"

 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=havok+content+tools+no+longer+available

 

Havok content tools (HCT) is tools used to make new havok physics enabled nodes on allready existing skeletons, and that tool set is no longer available as intel bought it. So at this point, about all you can do in faevor of HDT PE is add boob physics to armors, while in contrast in SMP i can do shit like HDT enabled elf ears.

 

oh, yeah sure some people can actualy do some new HDT things, because they allready had those tools and did not delete them, but at this point there will never be new HDT PE creators. ... meaning DEVELOPERS not boob modders.

 

Also you kind asshole could also google.... like at all... and also in your case wisdom starts with "i don't know"

 

[aquaraider11]

 

HDT is kind of on hold until the SKSE64 is released, then I think it'll be continuing for Special Edition and not for the OldRim.

 

Where did you get that information, as last info i got was that HDT had some IRL problems and could not actively continue modding, but still updated SMP once after almost half year brake. and has never been heard sinse then (last summer)

There are several threads about it here on the forum but most of them are not really up to date anymore.

They are as up to date as need to be as nothing has changed on SMP department, SMP is more DIY than PE, but it works better, it does not have wide modder base in west, so not much content in english but if you search eastern forums there is plenty...

 

So my current mission is to bring SMP to everyones field of attention so we get more modders poking at it and more mod users using it.

 

[blueballbob]

 

 

HDT is kind of on hold until the SKSE64 is released, then I think it'll be continuing for Special Edition and not for the OldRim.

 

Where did you get that information, as last info i got was that HDT had some IRL problems and could not actively continue modding, but still updated SMP once after almost half year brake. and has never been heard sinse then (last summer)

 

It was someone on reddit, but don't have the link handy.  Was saying even if Hydrogensays doesn't come back they'd try and pickup HDT for the SSE, but wouldn't bother with Oldrim.

 

The SKSE64 thread updated yesterday.  Looks like we might have a full beta of the SKSE64 by end of March possibly! 

[aquaraider11]

 

 

 

HDT is kind of on hold until the SKSE64 is released, then I think it'll be continuing for Special Edition and not for the OldRim.

 

Where did you get that information, as last info i got was that HDT had some IRL problems and could not actively continue modding, but still updated SMP once after almost half year brake. and has never been heard sinse then (last summer)

 

It was someone on reddit, but don't have the link handy.  Was saying even if Hydrogensays doesn't come back they'd try and pickup HDT for the SSE, but wouldn't bother with Oldrim.

 

The SKSE64 thread updated yesterday.  Looks like we might have a full beta of the SKSE64 by end of March possibly! 

 

For the love of god, i hope they are smart enough to continue where SMP left of instead of trying to beat the dead cow that PE is.

 

And yes i also read the SKSE64 thread (40 minutes after it updated!) YAY!!

 

Also if someone else continues Skyrim physics, the do need to do documentation, a good one, preferably in English...

 

but there is one problem, its not that i doubt anyone abilities, just that hydrogen is very clever, and i think it will be hard to just "pick up" PE or SMP without assistance of Hydrogen, as other vice it will need to be re coded completely and making any compatibility with existing formats will be a bitch...

 

 

Also if someone IS able to pick up SMP or recode it, i would very much like a word with them, as they would have the skills i need for my little project plan.

 

[polonius]

 

If it doesn't work at first make sure you followed the directions.  If it still doesn't work, look for the .xml files that came with the package in Notepad++ and do a find/replace across all of them for comma , and replace the comma with a period . . At least that worked for me.

 

SMP is much less 'glitchy' that the HDT PE is.  Plus it's got much better collision detection so you get more realistic bounce and response to touch or other part of the body. 

 

Issues are that not all the legacy HDT armor and objects will work with it.  So far a majority of my armors I use DO work, (like remodeled armor and bikini armors) but some of the older DeserterX HDT armor doesn't.

 

 

Thanks for that. I replaced the damned commas and got jiggle. Infinite jiggle so far, but still progress.

[Guest]

 

 

If it doesn't work at first make sure you followed the directions.  If it still doesn't work, look for the .xml files that came with the package in Notepad++ and do a find/replace across all of them for comma , and replace the comma with a period . . At least that worked for me.

 

SMP is much less 'glitchy' that the HDT PE is.  Plus it's got much better collision detection so you get more realistic bounce and response to touch or other part of the body. 

 

Issues are that not all the legacy HDT armor and objects will work with it.  So far a majority of my armors I use DO work, (like remodeled armor and bikini armors) but some of the older DeserterX HDT armor doesn't.

 

 

Thanks for that. I replaced the damned commas and got jiggle. Infinite jiggle so far, but still progress.

 

 

fixed xmls for jello or realistic are uploaded here

[polonius]

 

 

 

If it doesn't work at first make sure you followed the directions.  If it still doesn't work, look for the .xml files that came with the package in Notepad++ and do a find/replace across all of them for comma , and replace the comma with a period . . At least that worked for me.

 

SMP is much less 'glitchy' that the HDT PE is.  Plus it's got much better collision detection so you get more realistic bounce and response to touch or other part of the body. 

 

Issues are that not all the legacy HDT armor and objects will work with it.  So far a majority of my armors I use DO work, (like remodeled armor and bikini armors) but some of the older DeserterX HDT armor doesn't.

 

 

Thanks for that. I replaced the damned commas and got jiggle. Infinite jiggle so far, but still progress.

 

 

fixed xmls for jello or realistic are uploaded here

 

That did the trick thank you. I shouldn't have any older SMP DLLs since I've never tried it before should I?

Here's the files replaced with "."s along with your tweaks for U.S. users and others that use that standard. To clarify, overwrite your \hdtSkinnedMeshConfigs files with these if you'd write (more importantly your PC) "0.05%", do not if you would write "0,05%". Maybe it'll save someone some time and my New Year's resolution was to stop leeching LL and contribute something.

 

I had no idea you could have localization issues with code. Thanks for your work on this, I laughed when my toon crossed her arms and her breasts squished.

 

hdtSkinnedMeshConfigs-US.7z

[bigglebojiggle]

I'm really confused about how to use SMP. I still have to have HDT PE? Without it I get absolutely no jiggle. I installed OpenCL, I dont know why, it didnt seem to affect anything. Can someone point me to a proper tutorial (or just tell me what to do?) I'm kind of lost.

[goaway]

You can get the basic idea from this tutorial.

 

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/68076-tutorial-how-to-make-your-body-work-with-hdt-smp/

 

This is a good start for presets

 

http://www.loverslab.com/files/file/3285-all-in-one-hdtskinnedmeshphysics-setup-13-fomod/

 

Converting existing outfits or renaming the trishape of every single body or outfit is making it a lot harder than it needs to be.  

 

With a few easy steps, you can activate most HDT armors to work with SMP.  The xml physics for armors just read the name of the trishape, all you have to do is point it to the right shape name (in the example below, UUNP, not baseshape).  As long as it has the correct naming for bones, meaning it is already HDT-PE enabled, it shouldn't require any conversions.  

 

Assuming you are trying to activate UUNP outfits:

 

1. First, make a copy of "cbbe-tbbp.xml" (or cbbe-hdt-vag.xml) and rename it to something like uunp-tbbp.xml

 

Then, find the line at the bottom of the new file that looks like 

 

<per-triangle-shape name="BaseShape">
<margin>0</margin>
   <prenetration>1</prenetration>
<tag>body</tag>
</per-triangle-shape>

And edit it to look like this:

 

<per-triangle-shape name="UUNP">
<margin>0</margin>
   <prenetration>1</prenetration>
<tag>body</tag>
</per-triangle-shape>

2. Then open up the defaultbbps.xml config and add this line:

<map shape="UUNP" file="\skse\plugins\hdtSkinnedMeshConfigs\uunp-tbbp.xml"/>

That's pretty much it.  Basically, the process would be the same for any HDT enabled top, you would just have to add a separate line and .xml for different groups of baseshape names, which could add a lot of bloat if you get authors using weird shape names, but otherwise it should work.

[Crappy Potato]

salt everywhere

[darkevilhum]

FYI I'm too lazy to re-inform people about SMP for the upteenth time. But I will let you know, there are atleast 3 posts in the correct forum that give you the full blown info you need to get SMP setup and working and they are by no means 'out of date'.

[unded]

On 3/11/2018 at 12:19 PM, darkevilhum said:

FYI I'm too lazy to re-inform people about SMP for the upteenth time. But I will let you know, there are atleast 3 posts in the correct forum that give you the full blown info you need to get SMP setup and working and they are by no means 'out of date'.

Which ones btw? Confused dude wanting to get SMP working.

[darkevilhum]

3 hours ago, wy1389217 said:

Which ones btw? Confused dude wanting to get SMP working.

If you're serious about it, read through this thread https://www.loverslab.com/topic/68009-all-in-one-hdtskinnedmeshphysics-setup-20b-fomod/ using the fomod is probably recommended for beginners. Once you've got it installed, setup and working. You can start to tweak the xmls very easily via notepad/notepad++ etc.

 

ANY problems you encounter, have already been encountered by someone and sorted and are literally all in that thread, just give a solid read, the first 10 pages will probably sort you out for most problems. 

 

Remember SMP and HDT PE don't work together ON the SAME mesh, you CAN run them together for example, SMP body, HDT clothing, HDT accessories etc. As long as you know what you're doing.

 

For tweaking, every property is covered quite well here: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/86382-hdtskinnedmeshphysics-explainedlatest-binarys/ ( second post or download site backup from first post )

 

 

At this point, enjoy your smooth af realistic jiggles, collisions and stuff.

 

Also some useful stuff here.

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/86240-futa-smp-preconfigured-xmlmeshtexture-pack-now-with-bodyslide/

[Driftislove]

On 12/19/2016 at 9:29 PM, LovePussyMods said:

Ummm....ok..

Of course HCT isn't available. IT DOESN'T EXIST AND NEVER HAS...you might as well Google where you can buy flying pink elephants...

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/53996/?

 

Stop making up crap if you have no idea what your talking about. Wisdom begins by using "I Don't Know"

I love the internet cause you can read all the idiotic thoughts and conversations people have

[Xolod]

Firstly no idea where to ask about these anymore, so i will do it here for now. ?

 

Using <per-vertex-shape> with <penetration> gives me log spam of  unknown element - penetration

but if using <per-triangle-shape> this doesnt happen, so i have come to my own conclusion that vertex just doesnt have or disables or uses the default for the <penetration>, or am i completely in wrong here?

 

Also if this ends up being "true" is there something else <per-vertex-shape> ignores/disables/doesnt have

 

p.s. (can be ignored, its just me babbling around)

Spoiler

 

I stopped using SMP couple months ago, but after seeing this 3BBB body for LE i got interested in it again (tho just getting the body, modified skeleton and the basic xmls from it was an adventure itself)
I wont be using the 3BBB body tho, when 1 boned Bewbs give me still trouble
Havent still understood any of the calculations, i think my IQ is closer to 40 me need pictures or me smash, smorc

So im using the old style, just smashing numbers in and praying the nine divines.

 

 

[VonHelton]

In my investigation of the problem, I found several animation types other than HDT that not only didn't have the "stretch to infinity" bugg, but were older & easier to use, and could be used on HUNDREDS of NPC's at once with little FPS impact! There's even YouTube videos!

 

EDIT: Ok, I tried to find the video. It's a bunch of asian dancers wearing flowing robes. The robes move, hair moves, boobs move. To many NPC's to count, but not a sign of of the stretch bugg to be seen.

 

 

[27X]

19 hours ago, VonHelton said:

In my investigation of the problem, I found several animation types other than HDT that not only didn't have the "stretch to infinity" bugg, but were older & easier to use, and could be used on HUNDREDS of NPC's at once with little FPS impact! There's even YouTube videos!

 

EDIT: Ok, I tried to find the video. It's a bunch of asian dancers wearing flowing robes. The robes move, hair moves, boobs move. To many NPC's to count, but not a sign of of the stretch bugg to be seen.

 

 

 

The hell are you even talking about.

 

SMP has never had the stretch to infinity bug ever and the amount of system hit is determined by how well written the controller files are and what hardware you have.

[Xolod]

I guess i could have made a new topic for this ?‍♂️ but oh well

I have been tinkering with the "new" 3BBB body (LE) for a while now and would like to get some information/confirmations about couple things.

(Also im still a total noob with SMP ?)

What i use for this test is a T Pose style animation, so im pretty sure it doesnt get any added "movement" from any idle animation etc.

The jittering is normal with 3BBB? What i mean with this is that in my XML i have every generic-constraint as 0 and i still get slight movement.

Before 3BBB i just used UUNP which only had NPC L PreBreast->NPC L Breast (I think its called BBP?) I did check it, just to be sure with same kind of XML, there could be movement but it isnt noticeable at least for me. (While writing this i did test CBBE TBBP body too with its NPC L PreBreast->NPC L Breast->NPC L Breast01 and there seems to be some slight movement here too, so maybe its just a thing when dealing with chained bones ?) Or could this be a weighting issue or maybe a combination of both, does someone have a 3BBB or TBBP Body which doesnt have this jitter problem when using 0s in the generic-constraints like in BBP.  I will add also that im using <mass>1</mass> on every breast bone (except Breast00 and PreBreast) in this test.

Also added a spoiler for what i ment with the generic-constraint as 0

Spoiler

    <generic-constraint bodyA="L Breast01" bodyB="L Breast00">
        <frameInB>
            <basis             x="0"                 y="0"                 z="0"             w="1"    />
            <origin           x="0"                 y="0"                 z="0"                    />
        </frameInB>
    <useLinearReferenceFrameA>false</useLinearReferenceFrameA>
        <linearLowerLimit        x="0"                 y="0"                 z="0"                    />
        <linearUpperLimit        x="0"                 y="0"                 z="0"                    />
        <angularLowerLimit     x="0"                 y="0"                 z="0"                    />
        <angularUpperLimit     x="0"                 y="0"                 z="0"                    />
        <linearStiffness             x="0"                 y="0"                 z="0"                    />
        <angularStiffness          x="0"                 y="0"                 z="0"                    />
        <linearDamping            x="0"                 y="0"                 z="0"                    />
        <angularDamping         x="0"                 y="0"                 z="0"                    />
        <linearEquilibrium         x="0"                 y="0"                 z="0"                    />
        <angularEquilibrium      x="0"                 y="0"                 z="0"                    />
        <linearBounce                 x="0"                y="0"                z="0"                    />
        <angularBounce              x="0"                y="0"                z="0"                    />
    </generic-constraint>

Second thing is how do you guys connect these bones in 3BBB, i will put my "idea" of how i think they should be used in the spoiler.

Spoiler

<generic-constraint bodyA="L Breast01" bodyB="L Breast00">
<generic-constraint bodyA="L Breast02" bodyB="L Breast01">
<generic-constraint bodyA="L Breast03" bodyB="L Breast02">

And maybe <generic-constraint bodyA="L Breast04" bodyB="L Breast03"> ????

What got me confused tho is when checking others setups for these, some people have been connecting Breast03/02 to Breast00 and Breast03 to Breast01 etc. this has been really hard for someone who used to just use NPC L PreBreast->NPC L Breast ? + What about Breast04, it doesnt have a weight painted to it, or at least isnt in my body, is that like for some special 4BBB ? or something else?

EDIT: About the Breast04 Bone i want to add that when i load a save which has a naked female in the cell i get this post in the smp log (i only use left ones for testing.)

Spoiler

Bone L Breast04 is not exist, skipped
constraint L Breast04 <-> L Breast03 : bodyA doesn't exist, skipped

Spoiler

What this means in game is that the fucking shitty bone isnt affecting the rest of the chain which ends up changing how the "end" result looks, applying  vanilla armor seems to fix this tho, something about resetting the body/smp/skeleton etc...
Anyway, just because of this i have decided for my own setup to leave the Breast04 out.. i dont really like seeing any warnings in the log, and for actual gameplay it would suck mad dick to do the resetting always.

 

[OrrieL]

On 10/17/2020 at 2:13 PM, Xolod said:

The jittering is normal with 3BBB? What i mean with this is that in my XML i have every generic-constraint as 0 and i still get slight movement.

Before 3BBB i just used UUNP which only had NPC L PreBreast->NPC L Breast (I think its called BBP?) I did check it, just to be sure with same kind of XML, there could be movement but it isnt noticeable at least for me. (While writing this i did test CBBE TBBP body too with its NPC L PreBreast->NPC L Breast->NPC L Breast01 and there seems to be some slight movement here too, so maybe its just a thing when dealing with chained bones ?) Or could this be a weighting issue or maybe a combination of both, does someone have a 3BBB or TBBP Body which doesnt have this jitter problem when using 0s in the generic-constraints like in BBP.  I will add also that im using <mass>1</mass> on every breast bone (except Breast00 and PreBreast) in this test.

 

First make sure you are at stable 60FPS, no more, no less. Which version of SMP DLL are you using? (file date or better post CRC32).

You could have actually created this problem by setting 0 limits in constraints. If you do not have constraints in a constraint group (which you probably do not as you normally need different settings for each constraint) then physics are calculated independently and the constraint chain could be stretched/twisted based on the element mass. As there is a "stretch" (linear movement) there could also be slight angular movement caused by gravity and position of bones in the chain. Try to add constraints to a constraint group for the test.

 

This picture demonstrates what I am talking about. The chain contsists of 20 or so constraints, the left chain is in the constraint group the other is not. There is 0 linear limit on all constraints.

Spoiler

The other "forces" other than gravity causing bones to move while the skeleton is dead still can be restitution setting for the bones and equilibrium in constraints (but you set it to 0 so this should not be the cause) and possibly gravity-factor, but all movement caused by those should settle after some time.

 

Also could be just the very minor inaccuracy caused by low number of itterations defined in config. Try to set these in your configs.xml (backup your config beforehand). Do not change if its higher than this.

		<numIterations>20</numIterations>
		<groupIterations>20</groupIterations>

 

On 10/17/2020 at 2:13 PM, Xolod said:

What got me confused tho is when checking others setups for these, some people have been connecting Breast03/02 to Breast00 and Breast03 to Breast01 etc. this has been really hard for someone who used to just use NPC L PreBreast->NPC L Breast ? + What about Breast04, it doesnt have a weight painted to it, or at least isnt in my body, is that like for some special 4BBB ? or something else?

EDIT: About the Breast04 Bone i want to add that when i load a save which has a naked female in the cell i get this post in the smp log (i only use left ones for testing.)

Those constraints create additional movement (or boundaries) if you will for the elements. It is very hard to imagine or simulate such complex constraint movement in your head and the definition decision was probably made by trial and error by the author.

 

The other bones are just defined in skeleton, but i have not seen a mesh with a weight for those. In this case the log error produced by the engine is expected, definitions containing such bones are skipped as if they did not exist.

[Xolod]

3 hours ago, OrrieL said:

First make sure you are at stable 60FPS, no more, no less. Which version of SMP DLL are you using? (file date or better post CRC32).

You could have actually created this problem by setting 0 limits in constraints. If you do not have constraints in a constraint group (which you probably do not as you normally need different settings for each constraint) then physics are calculated independently and the constraint chain could be stretched/twisted based on the element mass. As there is a "stretch" (linear movement) there could also be slight angular movement caused by gravity and position of bones in the chain. Try to add constraints to a constraint group for the test.

I actually use 64FPS cap (have heard that its the actual cap ?‍♂️) but tested with 60 too and jittering is still there, also my fps is stable, I do these tests in  DLC2RRHoldingCell which is a small "cube" kind of place.
As for what version of DLL im using, not actually 100% sure but its the one uploaded by 27X here in LL

Spoiler

 

 

3 hours ago, OrrieL said:

Also could be just the very minor inaccuracy caused by low number of itterations defined in config. Try to set these in your configs.xml (backup your config beforehand). Do not change if its higher than this.

Changing these didnt stop the jittering

5 hours ago, OrrieL said:

and possibly gravity-factor

Setting this to 0 on ALL bones seems to fix the issue, but not sure if this is the right way to do it tho, i would also like to know more about constraint groups, never used them and no idea how to use them  tho i do think i have seen this mentioned somewhere before too.
As i said, im a total noob with this stuff still.