Bad Dog's Compleat Khajiit

[NightroModzz]

Bodyslide recently added HDT pussy, IIRC. Just build with one of the "Special" presets. Ditch the All-in-one preset asap, it screws with too many bodyslide flies for my liking. (You don't "have to", but it makes it near impossible to use Bodyslide to create your preferred body, without breaking the HDT pussy portion. Not to mention it conflicts with any mod that adjusts the HDT jiggle physics. Though if you like the preset, and don't mind conflicts with Bodyslide-reliant armors and gear,  stick with it, since it's not a bad body.)

 

Works fine for me and I like the body replacer for certian followers. I already have a custom body working. just replace the files in the correct path of that mod. I have 7 esp in that mod currently.

[NightroModzz]

Okay! I fixed the problem. This mod has 2 esp conflicts out of the 240 plugins I have.

 

the first one is this mod's http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/51097/? (Digitigrade armor for Khajiit's) Khajiit Boots.esp.

 

to fix this, place the esp anywhere above the list with a lower number than the default position that LOOT assigns for BDDigi.esp.

 

the second is this mod's http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/61218/? ( Imperious - Races of Skyrim) Imperious - Races of Skyrim.esp.

 

LOOT will want to pus this bellow (assign a higher number) than BDDigi.esp.  just swap positions and lock down the load order.

 

The following may or may not be a problem but just in case.

 

If you have a mod that has Khajiit children or this mod like I do http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/25654/? ,  KhajiitChildren.esp will also want to be bellow this mod's BDDigi.esp.  Just in case, so she can potentially have digitigrade feet, I also placed this above BDDigi.esp and locked the load order.

 

Hope this helps anyone.

 

Imperious - Races of Skyrim does some pretty neat stuff for khajiits. It also ands a long jump pounce when crouched.

 

Now I need to run 4 patches and FNIS to do an actuall gameplay run through for further testing and make sure the esp s overwritten by this mod's BDDigi.esp works properly. Don't see why they wouldn't unless the Khajiit child Maisha has no feet.

 

Update:

 

Does this mod edit anything besides the skeleton, mesh, and texture? It does not work at all with Predator Vision (regardless of esp order. Will test mod order) and the Imperious - Races of Skyrim race abilities don't work either.

 

After alternative start and picking the vanilla start, I CTDd 30 seconds into the intro. That has not happened in a long time and have not CTDd upon hours of gameplay before installing this mod.

 

Love the way it looks after some tweaking in racemenu BTW!

[Blaze69]

 

Update:

 

Does this mod edit anything besides the skeleton, mesh, and texture? It does not work at all with Predator Vision (regardless of esp order. Will test mod order) and the Imperious - Races of Skyrim race abilities don't work either.

 

After alternative start and picking the vanilla start, I CTDd 30 seconds into the intro. That has not happened in a long time and have not CTDd upon hours of gameplay before installing this mod.

 

Love the way it looks after some tweaking in racemenu BTW!

Skeleton and naked body data is stored in each Race entry, so this mod has to edit Khajiit and Khajiit Vampire races to give them the proper feet and skeletons. Predator Vision and Imperious both edit Khajiit races as well in order to give them the new abilities, so they all conflict, and you will end up either with CompleatKhajiit's feet but lacking the other edits or with those edits but without the feet.

 

It's easy to make them compatible using TES5Edit, though. Just put CompleatKhajiit higher than Imperious/Predator Vision in the Load Order (as in, less priority), and open them with TES5Edit. The records added by Compleat Khajiit will be shown in red/orange in the other plugins. Then you just have to drag and drop CompleatKhajiit's edits into any onther plugin that is loaded after it and you'll be done. Note that by doing this you will be adding Compleat Khajiit as a master of any other mod you edit, so if you want to uninstall this mod you will have to reinstall any edited one so you don't have the "missing master" error.

[NightroModzz]

 

 

Update:

 

Does this mod edit anything besides the skeleton, mesh, and texture? It does not work at all with Predator Vision (regardless of esp order. Will test mod order) and the Imperious - Races of Skyrim race abilities don't work either.

 

After alternative start and picking the vanilla start, I CTDd 30 seconds into the intro. That has not happened in a long time and have not CTDd upon hours of gameplay before installing this mod.

 

Love the way it looks after some tweaking in racemenu BTW!

Skeleton and naked body data is stored in each Race entry, so this mod has to edit Khajiit and Khajiit Vampire races to give them the proper feet and skeletons. Predator Vision and Imperious both edit Khajiit races as well in order to give them the new abilities, so they all conflict, and you will end up either with CompleatKhajiit's feet but lacking the other edits or with those edits but without the feet.

 

It's easy to make them compatible using TES5Edit, though. Just put CompleatKhajiit higher than Imperious/Predator Vision in the Load Order (as in, less priority), and open them with TES5Edit. The records added by Compleat Khajiit will be shown in red/orange in the other plugins. Then you just have to drag and drop CompleatKhajiit's edits into any onther plugin that is loaded after it and you'll be done. Note that by doing this you will be adding Compleat Khajiit as a master of any other mod you edit, so if you want to uninstall this mod you will have to reinstall any edited one so you don't have the "missing master" error.

 

 

Thank you very much! I know how to do 4 or 5 thing with TES5edit but have not done something like this. I'm much more of a visual and experience learner, do you know of any tutorials or the proper search term? Or at least detailed instructions.

 

[NightroModzz]

Question, Was the foot mesh made just by stretching the mesh already on the model? (Very well done BTW) Would it be possible to make the actual foot separately somewhat how Bodyslide 2 and Outfit Studio does? I'm not sure as I have never used NifScope or the Creation Kit, but plan to learn for the Skyrim Special Edition.

 

Example, I can make a very detailed digitigrade model in Zbrush with the pads sticking out rather than it just being a texture, export it to 3Dmax, then export it to NifScope to possibly convert it to a compatible texture. After, send the file to you. This way, you wouldn't have to worry about stretching the foot part of the mesh, just the leg part and the bones. I can probably do the hands too. probably make the finger nails a little less human.

 

Maybe for a future project for Skyrim Special Edition?

 

As for texture, I'm not sure. I just got Photoshop and Subscribed to Substance Live by Allegorithmic which gives 3 useful software. So I have to learn first. I plan to get Neofur in the future but I am currently working on landscape and construction in Unreal Engine than models currently. Although, I doubt Neofur will work in Skyrim. One thing I want to fix in the future, is that horrible neck texture stretch on the Khajiits.

[Bad Dog]

I'm not getting into the level of complexity of Bodyslide just for feet.

 

They were made in the shape you see them, then rigged to a skeleton in the digitigrade pose. When loaded with a normal skeleton (which is what you see in nifskope) they compress down to close to normal foot dimensions.

 

If you want to send me stuff, if I like it I'll use it. But the 3d modeling can be done in Blender. The pads have some 3d shape to them but not much to keep the vertex count down. These are just feet after all.

 

If you think the claws are too human, I think you haven't looked closely at the claws in this mod. :-)

[NightroModzz]

I'm not getting into the level of complexity of Bodyslide just for feet.

 

They were made in the shape you see them, then rigged to a skeleton in the digitigrade pose. When loaded with a normal skeleton (which is what you see in nifskope) they compress down to close to normal foot dimensions.

 

If you want to send me stuff, if I like it I'll use it. But the 3d modeling can be done in Blender. The pads have some 3d shape to them but not much to keep the vertex count down. These are just feet after all.

 

If you think the claws are too human, I think you haven't looked closely at the claws in this mod. :-)

 

Lol, I was talking about the hands, not the foot mod. Not all that important to me though. Just an idea.

 

Havn't tried blender yet, even though I have it istalled lol. I just picked the one that seemed best. Does it have a masking tool that can revert so you can expand out the mesh within the drawn out area? That makes pads really easy to make.

 

Just in case you do become interested, about how high do you need the foot mesh to be so it can work? I'll do it within the week and send you a pic. I can probably do it within a day tbh. If you are not interested, I'll probably try to do it myself when the new creation kit comes out for the Skyrim Special Edition.

[boo]

I for one am interested in more detailed foot meshes, poly counts be damned~!

[NightroModzz]

I for one am interested in more detailed foot meshes, poly counts be damned~!

 

Too much plycounts ain't good for games lol. But than again, there aren't that many khajiits in skyrim so it wouldn't hurt.  ; )

[Blaze69]

 

I for one am interested in more detailed foot meshes, poly counts be damned~!

 

Too much plycounts ain't good for games lol. But than again, there aren't that many khajiits in skyrim so it wouldn't hurt.  ; )

 

Add me to the "interested" list. BadDog's meshes are great, but any improvement will be welcomed.

 

In the topic of poly count, well... There are some armors/clothes ported from Daz/Poser/Whatever that thing is called that have like 70000 polys for single small pieces like belts and stuff, and the game loads them properly. Okay, if you start equipping and unequipping them really fast things get a little crashy due to the mesh being constantly loaded and unloaded from memory, but during normal gameplay it works fine. So, I'd say using Hi-Poly meshes to improve detail will work just fine as long as you don't go overkill on the polycount.

[Bad Dog]

 

 

Lol, I was talking about the hands, not the foot mod. 

 

So am I.

[NightroModzz]

 

 

 

Lol, I was talking about the hands, not the foot mod. 

 

So am I.

 

 

Maybe it's just a matter of preference. To me, it just looks like thin overgrown fingernails (especially the thumb) cut in an angle on the sides. Maybe harmful against skin but fragile. They'd be crying over a broken nail all the time. Personally, I think that it should look much thicker.

 

After this whole digitigrade project for the new Skyrim Special Edition. wether it's turns out to be a group project or not, I plan to do my own multiple skin textures. Not just a single body texture, but have multiple texture options. Like white or glossy black claw nails, lower forearms to hands, and lower leg options. Somewhat similar to how MoonLight Tales - Werewolf Essentials does it. but in racemenu instead of a mod menu hopefully. That way, it would allow color adjustments for everyone's personal design.

 

Maybe once we get some good body mods that I can work with. UUNP might not come for a while.

[NightroModzz]

Sorry I'm late. Not done yet. I decided to make an entire model for use with Neofur ( https://www.neoglyphic.com/neofur )  for when I get it in a few month. I can just make a copy and cut the feet off from the main body. I've already decided to do the whole Skyrim/Sword Art Online type game anyway. With around a dozen playable characters. 3 of the races  with fur and 1 or 2 with scales.

 

Here are some screenshots.

 

https://gyazo.com/7e420c6320e0fd676a6cd3b2d0b2a2fa

https://gyazo.com/51b375c6ec4b5d948623ce3cf5885863

 

I mostly just got the digitigrade shape down. I want to know if you added the nails in your model as the same mesh or a different (hard) mesh connected to the model because I'm unsure how the CK or modding bodies in Skyrim works. I also plan on making the toes separated and move them closer together when done so they don't fuse when I need to re-mesh. I need to know if I need to make a copy of the same model where the toes are connected to the same mesh in order for you to properly connect the skeleton.

 

I've also been busy with this

 

https://gyazo.com/46981d311126a5e94a9dc72fbfd12748

 

as well as making materials for Unreal Engine.

 

Any criticism or suggestions are welcome. However, I still plan on doing a lot of detail, muscle, and morphing.

[Bad Dog]

The fur engine looks cool. The digitigrade models look like a good start. Read upthread though about the difficulty of fitting digitigrade legs to the skyrim skeleton. The trouble is that what you'd really like is to shorten the shin, but you can't do that without editing every body armor mesh in skyrim. One of the digitigrade mods on nexus actually does that but it's a shitload of work. You might be able to build on their mod tho.

 

I'm happy to answer questions about skyrim meshes, to the extent I have answers, but a lot of it is just opening things up and taking a look. My claws, for example, I believe are a separate mesh in the same Blender object, and export to nif files in the same trishape as the feet. But I could be misremembering.

[NightroModzz]

That's fine. It doesn't have to be the entire leg. It can be cut off anywhere and when I'm done, I can try to morph the shape in a certain positon that could fit your skeleton before the cutting in a separate save file.

 

Although, I would like to have it replaced up to the knee because the back of the knee and lower leg muscle always looked terrible and kind of blocky do to the low poly meshes used in Skyrim. making custom animations on the knees and armpits/shoulders look paper bent.

 

That reminds me. Gonna try and make  custom animations like the KISS Khajiit animations to fit with this mod because the legs sink in to each other too much.

[Blaze69]

[stuff]

Let me start by saying I really like what I see on those models. They may not be finished, but I like where they are going. Adding muscle and shape definition is also a really good idea, and I think it will greatly help in detail.

 

Now, on to the topic at hand, let me see if I got it right: you are building those assets for a different project, but you intend to also use them to create a detailed digitigrade feet replacer for Khajiit in Skyrim, correct? I have to say that it is an ambitious project, but if you think you can make it, all the power to you. I'm sure there is plenty of people willing to help with it, myself included.

 

Anyway, just like BadDog says, building digitigrade feet in Skyrim, while possible, is not easy. There are two ways: keep the default body shape/seams, and use modified feet and skeletons to achieve the effect, or keep the default skeleton placement and edit the body meshes themselves to make them digitigrade. BadDog's mods use the former approach, and while the result is not 100% perfect, it does look pretty good while remaining compatible with almost anything mod-added.

 

The latter, on the other hand, is the method used by Unique Beast Races, and I have to admit if we compare appearance only I think it looks better than BD's Compleat Khajiit. The thing is, such way would also require to edit all of vanilla clothes and armor to match, both giving them the proper leg shape to match the feet and editing the Armor entries of the game to point the the right meshes whenever a khajiit wears them (though the latter is already done in UBR, so their plugin could be used as a base).

 

Now, my two cents: Ideally, the best option would be to edit the whole body like UBR does; it would take more work, but the end result would look noticeable better. I do have to say, while any of the two methods would work and I'm sure they would look good, if you opt for this latter approach, for the love of Talos, do not use the vanilla body. Use one of the body replacers instead. It doesn't matter which one. BD uses SOS for males and UNP for females, but CBBE would work as well if you prefered that. Both have full vanilla gear replacers, so no problem on that front.

 

My point is, most mod-added gear is suited for UUNP/CBBE and SOS bodies (though in the case of males SOS is close enough to Vanilla to not be a big deal), while Vanilla bodies are mostly not-supported. There is also the fact that vanilla bodies are so low-detailed on some points of it you can actually notice and count the polys in-game. Compare 1400 polys (Vanilla) with 3400 (CBBE) or 6800 (UNP/UUNP) and you will see what I mean.

Edited October 16, 2016 by Blaze69

[NightroModzz]

6800 polies is a lot!  Usually the recommended for a game character is 1500-3500, maybe not including the head. But 6500 could be the max recommended. There is also what the SMIM mod author does.

 

So your saying rather than cut off the foot, is to cut off the head and convert the body to UUNP and CBBE. Then when I'm finished with a male model, convert that to the SOS full body? I could also morph the model to fit this mod's skeleton as well as the Unique Beast Raced skeleton with permission, require it as a master, or release my model as a modders recourse?

 

Then again, Unique Beast Race's Aronian feet look pretty dam good but, (and I have to disagree) the khajiit digitigrade just doesn't look as good as BD's Digitigrade mod. The only bad thing I have to say is the BD's Digitigrade feet are too small but can easily be fixed in race menu. I've done plenty of tweaks there and it edits more then where you just see the space gap of separate mesh on the other mod which seems that that is where the mod ends.

 

https://gyazo.com/44b3f7bdc2646af97770d43957221337

https://gyazo.com/93e9d31613152e237468cedc10d4ea89

 

This mod could also be used as a head replacer because I'm pretty sure mine might not work with facial expressions.

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/58989/?

 

However, the bottom middle of the neck should be formed inward not outward. The default neck on the body does not connect very well to khajiits with UUNP or it's just the texture mod.

Tried it and did not notice a difference besides FPS loss but I'm sure that's because a texture needs to be made for it.

[Blaze69]

6800 polies is a lot! Usually the recommended for a game character is 1500-3500, maybe not including the head. But 6500 could be the max recommended. There is also what the SMIM mod author does.

 

So your saying rather than cut off the foot, is to cut off the head and convert it to UUNP and CBBE. Then when I'm finished with a male model, convert that to the SOS full body? I could also morph the model to fit this mod's skeleton as well as the Unique Beast Raced skeleton with permission, require it as a master, or release my model as a modders recourse?

 

This mod could also be used as a head replacer because I'm pretty sure mine might not work with facial expressions.

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/58989/?

 

However, the bottom middle of the neck should be formed inward, not outward. The default neck on the body does not connect very well to the khajiits with UUNP or it's just the texture mod.

Tried it and did not notice a difference but I'm sure that's because a texture needs to be made for it.

 

EDIT: Okay, turns out this post was a mess with my ideas all over the place and nothing I could get out of it. That is what happens when you mix sleep deprivation and using a phone to post (Don't do that. Please.).

 

Refer to my next post for a rephrased and understandable (I hope) exposition of my ideas.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Blaze69

[27X]

6800 polies is a lot!  Usually the recommended for a game character is 1500-3500, maybe not including the head. But 6500 could be the max recommended. There is also what the SMIM mod author does.

 

So your saying rather than cut off the foot, is to cut off the head and convert it to UUNP and CBBE. Then when I'm finished with a male model, convert that to the SOS full body? I could also morph the model to fit this mod's skeleton as well as the Unique Beast Raced skeleton with permission, require it as a master, or release my model as a modders recourse?

 

Then again, Unique Beast Race's Aronian feet look pretty dam good but, (and I have to disagree) the khajiit digitigrade just doesn't look as good as BD's Digitigrade mod. The only bad thing I have to say is the BD's Digitigrade feet are too small but can easily be fixed in race menu. I've done plenty of tweaks there and it edits more then where you just see the space gap of separate mesh which seems that that is where the mod ends.

 

https://gyazo.com/44b3f7bdc2646af97770d43957221337

https://gyazo.com/93e9d31613152e237468cedc10d4ea89

 

This mod could also be used as a head replacer because I'm pretty sure mine might not work with facial expressions.

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/58989/?

 

However, the bottom middle of the neck should be formed inward not outward. The default neck on the body does not connect very well to khajiits with UUNP or it's just the texture mod.

Tried it and did not notice a difference besides FPS loss but I'm sure that's because a texture needs to be made for it.

 

It is not even kind of a lot; the clusterfuck that  is Immersive Armors has "armor" composed of over 50K polygons and is hitchy because it's crappily optimized. There are Daz and Poser bodies composed of 60K polies used for every female in the game with zero framerate loss.

[Blaze69]

[stuff]

My point about the body replacing method was because I am not sure if doing the skeleton edit path will allow your hi-poly feet to retain their level of detail without being deformed or losing quality, due to them having to be "compressed" into a regular skeleton and then "expanded" again by the digitigrade skeleton. There is also the fact that you have to conform to the vanilla standard feet seam, so you are limited on what you can do on that part of the feet/legs.

 

If you think it can be done with no loss of quality/detail, then I have to agree the skeleton method would be the best, due to it being the most compatible. That way, people can use whatever body and gear replacer they want, as long as the body textures provided by your mod matches their own. This is what happens with CompleatKhajiit/Yiffy Age, any UNP derivative body works fine. If you were to also make CBBE textures, then the mod would be compatible with anything, because those are the only different UV settings.

 

The idea of using your body meshes straightaway after converting them to use vanilla neck/wrist seams and making them compatible with UUNP/CBBE is a good one, because as I said you can add as many polys as you want, with the resulting increase in detail, for example allowing muscle definition as mentioned earlier. I understand you would also retain compatibility with CBBE/UUNP textures by using their same UV (that is what you mean by "making it CBBE/UUNP compatible", right?). The only downside to that is that it would require a lot of extra work, because you would need to provide a full vanilla gear replacer alongside it. It is possible though, as evidenced by the fact tha is has been done before, both by UBR and by any of the other bodies that include a full vanilla replacer (I had forgotten about Body by Leito, for example).

 

EDIT: in the meantime, thanks for the suggestion of using RaceMenu to tweak BD's feet. The bone/node scale sliders do help in getting the feet to look the way you want them (in my case, making them look bigger and stronger). The "Feet" slider controls the ankle/upper part of the feet, and the "Toes" slider controls the size of the paws themselves.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Blaze69

[boo]

Actually, the higher poly the feet are, the easier it would be to correct deformation with weight painting.

[Bad Dog]

Hey, post a pic with how you've tweaked the feet.

[Blaze69]

Hey, post a pic with how you've tweaked the feet.

If you mean me, it's not that much of an edit, I just used the bone scale sliders from RaceMenu to make the paws and the upper feet bigger, because to me they seemed a little skinny to be able to support the body frame, though that is just my opinion (and my actual knowledge of anatomy is very limited). I can post some comparison pics sometime later if you want.

 

EDIT: Here you go, "Before" and "After" pics.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2016 by Blaze69

[boo]

Look a bit too fat at the ankles now.

[Blaze69]

Look a bit too fat at the ankles now.

Yeah, that is the problem of using bone scaling, it usually doesn't look really good because meshes are not weight-painted to be scaled with the bone but rather to animate with the bone (that is why, for example, pregnancy mods look much better when they use Bodyslide morphs instead of just upscaling the "NPC Belly" bone). The ankle seam is not altered by this scaling, so it is true the leg gets narrower at that point and makes the upper part of the feet look fat in comparison.

 

I was aiming more for "muscular" than "fat", but still, I like it more than the original look, so I'll keep them this way unless BD tweaks the meshes (or maybe until NightroModzz releases their mod with Hi-Poly paws).