The Manipulator

[Guest ffabris]

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[Sneaksmile]

@ffabris  Hello.

Can you tell me what the exact process is to changes on the NPCs made in the Racemenu, can be permanent?

The changes in NPCs (like adding tattoos and others) are applied but only at that moment, but if I restart the game, or if I load a save again, all those changes are lost.  ☹️ 

[karlpaws]

2 hours ago, Sneaksmile said:

@ffabris  Hello.

Can you tell me what the exact process is to changes on the NPCs made in the Racemenu, can be permanent?

The changes in NPCs (like adding tattoos and others) are applied but only at that moment, but if I restart the game, or if I load a save again, all those changes are lost.  ☹️ 

If you make changes to randomly spawned NPCs like bandits or mages, they won't change because the actors are recycled when changing cells or reloading the game.  If you have one of the several slave making mods that create a new unique NPC from the radiant random spawn, I think those changes should stay.

 

Are you trying to add tattoos to a Unique, named NPC?

[Sneaksmile]

4 hours ago, karlpaws said:

If you make changes to randomly spawned NPCs like bandits or mages, they won't change because the actors are recycled when changing cells or reloading the game.  If you have one of the several slave making mods that create a new unique NPC from the radiant random spawn, I think those changes should stay.

 

Are you trying to add tattoos to a Unique, named NPC?

 

Nope, I haven't done any of that, nothing over random NPCs or spawned NPCs. I have only tested it on my followers. And like I said, the changes are kept during that game session, but when restarting or loading a save again, all the changes just disappear. And that really sucks. 

[Guest ffabris]

I don't recall hearing that happen before. Have you checked in this thread for other similar reports? Not sure what the cause of that might be - and therefore I have no suggestions, I'm afraid.

[Crag]

Frankly,  I don't think this a Manipulator issue. It just calls Racemenu. Nothing more. I also have never seen unique NPC lose tatts/hair - overlays. Ever.  Non-unique, yeah sure - all the time. If an actor gets recycled they will lose the overlays (and any body changes made through Racemenu EXCEPT cock (oddly - but I think that is managed by SOS/SAM itself).

 

Just to test, have you tried unique NPC's that are not followers? And which follower system do you use? AFT, EFF, something else? Maybe its the follower system doing some thing every time you start up the game.. shooting in the dark here. 

[Sneaksmile]

8 hours ago, ffabris said:

I don't recall hearing that happen before. Have you checked in this thread for other similar reports? Not sure what the cause of that might be - and therefore I have no suggestions, I'm afraid.

 

I don't know, it's a very big thread. I thought that had a simple solution. I have tried it several times but the tattoos, tan lines and other modificatioons over my followers always they disappear when restarting the game or loading a save again.  ?

[Sneaksmile]

3 hours ago, Crag said:

Frankly,  I don't think this a Manipulator issue. It just calls Racemenu. Nothing more. I also have never seen unique NPC lose tatts/hair - overlays. Ever.  Non-unique, yeah sure - all the time. If an actor gets recycled they will lose the overlays (and any body changes made through Racemenu EXCEPT cock (oddly - but I think that is managed by SOS/SAM itself).

 

Just to test, have you tried unique NPC's that are not followers? And which follower system do you use? AFT, EFF, something else? Maybe its the follower system doing some thing every time you start up the game.. shooting in the dark here. 

It is that I have not installed unique NPCs other than my followers. You mean some NPCs added by a collateral Mod or something? I'll try in one of those then.

 

I use this Mod for followers:

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/14037

 

[karlpaws]

6 hours ago, Sneaksmile said:

It is that I have not installed unique NPCs other than my followers. You mean some NPCs added by a collateral Mod or something? I'll try in one of those then.

 

I use this Mod for followers:

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/14037

 

When we say Unique NPCs we don't mean mod added ones but the NPCs in the game with actual names like Sigrid and Alvor in Riverwood, Ulfric or General Tullius. 

 

The game treats "created" NPCs like bandits, wizards and such that have generic names differently than Unique NPCs by creating the random ones based on pee-defined templates for looks, skills, spells, equipment, AI packages and other characteristics.  Some of these, especially the looks, can be random-ish (that template will be the same every time but the Bandit Marauder might use a different template of male bosmer instead of female imperial next time).

 

Alvor looks the same, every single time you see him. The guard patrolling up and down Riverwood could be different every time you leave the area and return.

[Sneaksmile]

3 hours ago, karlpaws said:

When we say Unique NPCs we don't mean mod added ones but the NPCs in the game with actual names like Sigrid and Alvor in Riverwood, Ulfric or General Tullius. 

 

The game treats "created" NPCs like bandits, wizards and such that have generic names differently than Unique NPCs by creating the random ones based on pee-defined templates for looks, skills, spells, equipment, AI packages and other characteristics.  Some of these, especially the looks, can be random-ish (that template will be the same every time but the Bandit Marauder might use a different template of male bosmer instead of female imperial next time).

 

Alvor looks the same, every single time you see him. The guard patrolling up and down Riverwood could be different every time you leave the area and return.

 

Well now I know. But it doesn't work either, I put two tattoos on Serana, and when I load the save again, the tattoos disappear. I put a tattoo on the face of the guy who is always in Whiterun stables, added by the Horse Armors Mod and it disappears when loading the save. 

[karlpaws]

11 minutes ago, Sneaksmile said:

 

Well now I know. But it doesn't work either, I put two tattoos on Serana, and when I load the save again, the tattoos disappear. I put a tattoo on the face of the guy who is always in Whiterun stables, added by the Horse Armors Mod and it disappears when loading the save. 

I did not think facial changes worked... something to do with the facegen and such.  If it gave you that option maybe something else is happening... or I'm wrong about that part.  I know slavetats could apply overlays to faces but that's a different thing than RaceMenu.

[Guest ffabris]

5 hours ago, karlpaws said:

I did not think facial changes worked... something to do with the facegen and such.  If it gave you that option maybe something else is happening... or I'm wrong about that part.  I know slavetats could apply overlays to faces but that's a different thing than RaceMenu.

That's correct. Same issue as with changing hair.

I'm quite stumped here, as I've never heard of this before. Possibly some mod loaded later is reverting NPCs?

[Crag]

3 hours ago, ffabris said:

That's correct. Same issue as with changing hair.

I'm quite stumped here, as I've never heard of this before. Possibly some mod loaded later is reverting NPCs?

Yeah, something in your game is recycling NPC's. Even the unique NPC's. 

 

Time to play musical mods (I'm sad to say). Disable everything except Racemenu (and some overlays)  and your body/face mods (CBBE, SOS, etc, etc.) Start a new game and run to the nearest unique NPC (Alvor, Sven in Riverwood would be fine) and try it. See what happens. If the overlays stay you have your answer.

[Crag]

Also you could post your mod list - maybe one of us will spot something. 

[Sneaksmile]

2 hours ago, Crag said:

Also you could post your mod list - maybe one of us will spot something. 

 

Okay. 

 

My Plugins.rar

 

[Sneaksmile]

11 hours ago, karlpaws said:

I did not think facial changes worked... something to do with the facegen and such.  If it gave you that option maybe something else is happening... or I'm wrong about that part.  I know slavetats could apply overlays to faces but that's a different thing than RaceMenu.

Well, I really don't know. Please check the plugins file I have uploaded. 

[Sneaksmile]

I order the Mods with LOOT, so I don't know what happens. But the changes are not permanent in any NPC. 

[Sneaksmile]

6 hours ago, ffabris said:

That's correct. Same issue as with changing hair.

I'm quite stumped here, as I've never heard of this before. Possibly some mod loaded later is reverting NPCs?

Please check the plugins file. 

[Guest ffabris]

18 hours ago, Sneaksmile said:

Please check the plugins file. 

I'll leave that o someone who is familiar with current Skyrim; I haven't played it in years.

[Crag]

19 hours ago, Sneaksmile said:

 

Okay. 

 

My Plugins.rar 202.8 kB · 3 downloads

 

Ok nothing jumps out to me, I'm sorry to say. You're are just gonna have to switch out mods. We've all gone through it and we all hate doing it. It takes tons of time, I know.

You might try reinstalling, if you haven't already. Backup you mod list (NMM, MO, or Vortex can all backup). Like I said, I've never seen this so I am just running you through the standard methods  to track down misbehaving mods. 

Man, I feel you. I once had an issue with boots being on backwards on certain NPC's. It was random and took me weeks to track down.

[Sneaksmile]

16 hours ago, Crag said:

Ok nothing jumps out to me, I'm sorry to say. You're are just gonna have to switch out mods. We've all gone through it and we all hate doing it. It takes tons of time, I know.

You might try reinstalling, if you haven't already. Backup you mod list (NMM, MO, or Vortex can all backup). Like I said, I've never seen this so I am just running you through the standard methods  to track down misbehaving mods. 

Man, I feel you. I once had an issue with boots being on backwards on certain NPC's. It was random and took me weeks to track down.

Hmmm ... nope ... it cost me too MUCH to ''remove'' CTDs. So ... I am not going to restart everything just for a Mod that is failing.

Isn't there another mod like this one and that does something similar on NPCs? 

[Grey Cloud]

2 hours ago, Sneaksmile said:

I am not going to restart everything just for a Mod that is failing.

I'm not being funny but you are doing it again - blaming a mod when you should be looking at yourself.

I have used Manipulator since it was released and never had a problem with it. Admittedly I don't use that tattoo thing and in any case, I use EFF which has some sort of tattoo thing itself were I ever to feel the urge for tattoos.

 

You currently have about half a dozen threads on the go, all dealing with different problems that you have.

[Guest ffabris]

23 hours ago, Crag said:

Man, I feel you. I once had an issue with boots being on backwards on certain NPC's. It was random and took me weeks to track down.

Shoes on backward?  o,O  That must have been amusing! LOL!

 

6 hours ago, Sneaksmile said:

Hmmm ... nope ... it cost me too MUCH to ''remove'' CTDs. So ... I am not going to restart everything just for a Mod that is failing.

Isn't there another mod like this one and that does something similar on NPCs? 

As was noted, your issue hasn't been reported before. So yeah, maybe don't point fingers at Manipulator. 

 

Other mods that fully replicate what Manipulator does? Don't know of any, which is precisely why I wrote Manipulator - though some do parts of what Manipulator does.

 

Given Grey's comment, it would seem that you need to look at your own Sykrim config, rather than blaming this mod. Just a thought.

[thesteve812]

Operator error, not mod error. This mod has never failed me. Freckles, tattoos and body adujustments I've applied to npc are still on them weeks later.

Thanks ffabris for the great working mod.

[Crag]

Manipulator does nothing with overlays. ALL IT DOES is call Racemenu. The sliders where you add various overlays to a char are all Racemenu. Manipulator does not recycle NPC's unless you tell it to.  

 

Manipulator is a utility mod. Period. Outfit changes, various shortcuts, a harem- it does all that. And there are other mods that do those things too. But Manipulator is one esp compared to 6.

 

You issue @Sneaksmile, is not Manipulator. Something is recycling your NPC's. And removing the overlays.