Devious Attributes 2019-5-7

[m.skynet]

Hey there, I have a couple questions:

 

1. What differentiates obedience from submissiveness?

 

2. How does obedience increase?

 

3. Does soul state change as things happen or will it have to be changed in the debug menu?

 

4. Regarding fetishes, in order for an individual fetish value to increase, my character has to perform a specific decision type while my character is above a certain arousal level?

 

5. Do humiliation lover or exhibitionist do anything currently?

 

6. Is SD+ currently the only way to increase fetish levels?

 

I'm really enjoying this overall, though some of this stuff has me confused, thanks.

 

1) Submissiveness is calculated value based on other attributes. Obedience increases after certain decision types (the idea is that obedience signifies "conditioning" for obedience)

2) It increases after other mods will signal to Datt about PC decisions of certain type. I will make sure to include in mod's repo a wiki page with detailed descriptions when and how each attribute increases/decreases

3) Soul state currently will not change on its own - it is intended to be used by other mods. Currently, there is no way to change it, in the next version there will be an event that can be sent (by another mod) so the soul state is changed

4) except for nympho fetish, other fetishes currently can be increased only if another mod sends player decision information. I will add more hooks to increase fetish attributes

5) Not currently. I will add some hooks in the future so they will have some effect (for example exhibitionism will boost arousal if someone is watching the PC naked), but the main idea for those fetish attributes is to provide other mods information

6) Currently there is no meaningful integration with SD+ yet, but there will be, including changes in fetish attributes.

 

I love this mod, I just wish other mods would start integrating with it!  I love that the game finally keeps track of what (sexually) happens to my character, and am looking forward to when other mods can start to "reward" her appropriately.  Keep up the good work!

 

Thanks I am still new to this modding stuff and still at times struggle with weirdness of Papyrus/Construction Kit platforms, so the progress is slower that I would like it to be. I am getting there though

It's probably in your plans, but maybe a tie-in to Slaverun, especially the early parts where you can be 'talked' into being a slave. Having the refusals using will, would be interesting.

 

Hmm.. hadn't considered Slaverun so far, but a good idea. Such tie-in could add some interesting immersiveness. I will include it in my TODO list

[rubberdolltami]

Absolutely love this mod! Thanks so much for making it. I can see how this could tie in with so many other mods, D Dialogues - affecting your dialogue choices, and tonnes of different ways with SD, DD, helplessness, etc.

[Karma199696]

 

* Tooltips in MCM -> I am planning some big changes for the next version - looking into adding attribute tracking of NPCs as well as less heavy tracking of PC attributes

* Tooltips in MCM -> Until I've added tooltips, what settings you are not sure that you understand?

* I am considering separating those Devious Attributes and Devious Consequences into separate posts so tracking will be easier of new features and stuff

 

 

Thanks for answering

 

my doubts are illustrated in the attached files

[m.skynet]

 

 

* Tooltips in MCM -> I am planning some big changes for the next version - looking into adding attribute tracking of NPCs as well as less heavy tracking of PC attributes

* Tooltips in MCM -> Until I've added tooltips, what settings you are not sure that you understand?

* I am considering separating those Devious Attributes and Devious Consequences into separate posts so tracking will be easier of new features and stuff

 

 

Thanks for answering

 

my doubts are illustrated in the attached files

 

 

1) Fetish traits - I would say that they are used in couple of places: in the current state of the code, their values are changed only as a response of a decision event sent from another mod. Also, humiliation lover and nympho attributes are used in calculation of several debuffs (probably I will write later a wiki page with detailed descriptions of effect mechanics in project's github repo)

2) Debug tab - is mostly intended for testing various functionality of the mod.

  * Simulate victim actor count -> num of actors means that rape event occurs with specified amount of actors. So if its 2 actors -> rape event occured between PC and 1 actor, if it is 3 actors -> rape event occured between PC and 2 actors

  * Simulating player decision -> other mods can send information on player decisions and have various attributes updated accordingly. So this is intended for testing outcome of decisions as if sent by other mods.

Regarding the parameters:

  Response type - type of choice selected by player. Numeric values are :

• 2 -> Strongly refuse
• -1 -> Meekly refuse
• 0 -> Neutral
• 1 -> Agreed, but not eagerly
• 2 -> Enthusiastic

  Decision Type - kind of "flags" that define the type of request/command/choice given to the player. It is possible to send multiple "tags" per one choice. The numeric values are:

 

• 0 -> regular master command (i.e "fetch me some food!")
• 1 -> humiliating
• 2 -> painful
• 3 -> exhibitionist
• 4 -> sex

In the debug menu, there is only one decision type; Datt listens to multiple events -> Datt_PlayerDecision1, Datt_PlayerDecision2, Datt_PlayerDecision3, Datt_PlayerDecision4

So it is possible to send multiple decision types (so with Datt_PlayerDecision3 event, it is possible to send 3 distinct decision types)

 

Extra pride and self-esteem change -> it is also possible to send event with extra debuff to pride and self-esteem (in case the player is presented with very humiliating choice or something similar)

 

Currently, there are no published mods that send player choice events, and I think one mod that will use those events is in the making.

 

 

 

[Karma199696]

 

1) Fetish traits - I would say that they are used in couple of places: in the current state of the code, their values are changed only as a response of a decision event sent from another mod. Also, humiliation lover and nympho attributes are used in calculation of several debuffs (probably I will write later a wiki page with detailed descriptions of effect mechanics in project's github repo)

2) Debug tab - is mostly intended for testing various functionality of the mod.

  * Simulate victim actor count -> num of actors means that rape event occurs with specified amount of actors. So if its 2 actors -> rape event occured between PC and 1 actor, if it is 3 actors -> rape event occured between PC and 2 actors

  * Simulating player decision -> other mods can send information on player decisions and have various attributes updated accordingly. So this is intended for testing outcome of decisions as if sent by other mods.

Regarding the parameters:

  Response type - type of choice selected by player. Numeric values are :

• 2 -> Strongly refuse
• -1 -> Meekly refuse
• 0 -> Neutral
• 1 -> Agreed, but not eagerly
• 2 -> Enthusiastic

  Decision Type - kind of "flags" that define the type of request/command/choice given to the player. It is possible to send multiple "tags" per one choice. The numeric values are:

 

• 0 -> regular master command (i.e "fetch me some food!")
• 1 -> humiliating
• 2 -> painful
• 3 -> exhibitionist
• 4 -> sex

In the debug menu, there is only one decision type; Datt listens to multiple events -> Datt_PlayerDecision1, Datt_PlayerDecision2, Datt_PlayerDecision3, Datt_PlayerDecision4

So it is possible to send multiple decision types (so with Datt_PlayerDecision3 event, it is possible to send 3 distinct decision types)

 

Extra pride and self-esteem change -> it is also possible to send event with extra debuff to pride and self-esteem (in case the player is presented with very humiliating choice or something similar)

 

Currently, there are no published mods that send player choice events, and I think one mod that will use those events is in the making.

 

much clearer now !

i'm not much better then my PC in understanding things by myself

 

thanks a lot for (everything creating the mod, sharing it, kind answers, etc )

[Guest]

My character's pride became 0. Since the increases are multiplicative, am I doomed now?

[m.skynet]

My character's pride became 0. Since the increases are multiplicative, am I doomed now?

 

Now that I think about it some more, probably yes... Unless you join Thieves Guild and steal very pricy items - with the existing debuffs, the stealing one increases pride proportional to amount of gold/value of items that is stolen or pickpocketed

 

On a more serious note, I will probably need to adjust attribute changes mechanics for the next version. I think I will keep it both multiplicative and add small flat "bonuses", so it will be possible to get out of situations like one you describe

[m.skynet]

 

 

1) Fetish traits - I would say that they are used in couple of places: in the current state of the code, their values are changed only as a response of a decision event sent from another mod. Also, humiliation lover and nympho attributes are used in calculation of several debuffs (probably I will write later a wiki page with detailed descriptions of effect mechanics in project's github repo)

2) Debug tab - is mostly intended for testing various functionality of the mod.

  * Simulate victim actor count -> num of actors means that rape event occurs with specified amount of actors. So if its 2 actors -> rape event occured between PC and 1 actor, if it is 3 actors -> rape event occured between PC and 2 actors

  * Simulating player decision -> other mods can send information on player decisions and have various attributes updated accordingly. So this is intended for testing outcome of decisions as if sent by other mods.

Regarding the parameters:

  Response type - type of choice selected by player. Numeric values are :

• 2 -> Strongly refuse
• -1 -> Meekly refuse
• 0 -> Neutral
• 1 -> Agreed, but not eagerly
• 2 -> Enthusiastic

  Decision Type - kind of "flags" that define the type of request/command/choice given to the player. It is possible to send multiple "tags" per one choice. The numeric values are:

 

• 0 -> regular master command (i.e "fetch me some food!")
• 1 -> humiliating
• 2 -> painful
• 3 -> exhibitionist
• 4 -> sex

In the debug menu, there is only one decision type; Datt listens to multiple events -> Datt_PlayerDecision1, Datt_PlayerDecision2, Datt_PlayerDecision3, Datt_PlayerDecision4

So it is possible to send multiple decision types (so with Datt_PlayerDecision3 event, it is possible to send 3 distinct decision types)

 

Extra pride and self-esteem change -> it is also possible to send event with extra debuff to pride and self-esteem (in case the player is presented with very humiliating choice or something similar)

 

Currently, there are no published mods that send player choice events, and I think one mod that will use those events is in the making.

 

much clearer now !

i'm not much better then my PC in understanding things by myself

 

thanks a lot for (everything creating the mod, sharing it, kind answers, etc )

 

 

You are welcome

 

When I am excited to work on a mod and get out new stuff for people to see, I sometimes  forget that some things are not self-explanatory. So I explain...

[Guest]

The way that OnSexAnimationEnd is currently set up, the self esteem boost  can be quite large even if the MCM menu option for that is 0, depending on the nympho stat. I'm not sure that's intentional, since it makes the high nympho stat an enormous advantage for the player.

[m.skynet]

The way that OnSexAnimationEnd is currently set up, the self esteem boost  can be quite large even if the MCM menu option for that is 0, depending on the nympho stat. I'm not sure that's intentional, since it makes the high nympho stat an enormous advantage for the player.

 

Thanks. I am now in the middle of reviewing and refactoring attribute changes for the next  version, so this comes in a very good time I want to make sure that the changes make sense for the next version

 

(as for OnSexAnimationEnd, nympho is supposed to give small bonus to base increase, not a large one)

[devilhunter89]

I have been waiting for this to become a mod from the time sexlab framework was released! I can't wait to install it and give it a test run

[heehatatt]

Hello, don't know if this is an already planned feature or if it was suggested.

 

Would be nice if the mod would differentiate consensual sex from rape. Unless the PC is a feminist and considers all sex rape.

[Vuulgar]

Great and interesting mod! I was hoping you might add compatibility with Defeat. Goubo just released a new version. Also I read some of the posts earlier, specifically one about pride hitting 0 and the tough climb back. It seems the person that has had that much tough luck is going to view a win when they finally get it with more value. Meaning once you are low enough in a stat perhaps boosts could get a boost to help you out of the basement. Just a thought, maybe not even a good one.....

 

Thanks for rounding out a bit more off the Skyrim experience

[m.skynet]

Hello, don't know if this is an already planned feature or if it was suggested.

 

Would be nice if the mod would differentiate consensual sex from rape. Unless the PC is a feminist and considers all sex rape.

 

feminism? I suggest not to start a political/ideological debate here, let's just say that I won't include "is feminist" flag (I prefer avoiding potential flame war, don't think that this forum is the place for such things )

In any case, this is planned for the next version. Consensual and non-consensual would have different outcomes in terms of attribute changes and maybe buffs/debuffs

[m.skynet]

Great and interesting mod! I was hoping you might add compatibility with Defeat. Goubo just released a new version. Also I read some of the posts earlier, specifically one about pride hitting 0 and the tough climb back. It seems the person that has had that much tough luck is going to view a win when they finally get it with more value. Meaning once you are low enough in a stat perhaps boosts could get a boost to help you out of the basement. Just a thought, maybe not even a good one.....

 

Thanks for rounding out a bit more off the Skyrim experience

 

Thanks!

In any case, for the next version I am changing attributes progression to be linear - easier to think reason about it, and easier to understand how things would change; also, I am reviewing how attributes change in all sorts of edge-cases so the attribute mechanics will be more robust and playable.

 

Regarding Defeat integration, I actually thought about it when new version of Defeat brought it to my attention. I will take a look at the mod, I am thinking to add "Defeat Trauma" effect that will debuff PC, effectively punishing being defeated in combat (in addition to attribute changes due to being defeated)

 

This "trauma" effect could also be applied when enslaved by SD+ maybe enslaved by Deviously Enslaved Continued, making escaping in first day or so harder.

[heehatatt]

 

Hello, don't know if this is an already planned feature or if it was suggested.

 

Would be nice if the mod would differentiate consensual sex from rape. Unless the PC is a feminist and considers all sex rape.

 

feminism? I suggest not to start a political/ideological debate here, let's just say that I won't include "is feminist" flag (I prefer avoiding potential flame war, don't think that this forum is the place for such things )

In any case, this is planned for the next version. Consensual and non-consensual would have different outcomes in terms of attribute changes and maybe buffs/debuffs

 

 

was just a pranku about feminism, bro.

 

Glad to hear consensual/non-consensual will be differentiated between.

[m.skynet]

 

 

Hello, don't know if this is an already planned feature or if it was suggested.

 

Would be nice if the mod would differentiate consensual sex from rape. Unless the PC is a feminist and considers all sex rape.

feminism? I suggest not to start a political/ideological debate here, let's just say that I won't include "is feminist" flag (I prefer avoiding potential flame war, don't think that this forum is the place for such things )

In any case, this is planned for the next version. Consensual and non-consensual would have different outcomes in terms of attribute changes and maybe buffs/debuffs

was just a pranku about feminism, bro.

 

Glad to hear consensual/non-consensual will be differentiated between.

No biggie . It's just in the past, I saw feminism (and other politics/philosophy) related topics turn quickly into flame war, and I think nobody wants that.

Also, if you have any suggestions or feedback about something specific, I'd be happy to hear about it. (now it is a good time to make changes, since I am doing big refactoring, and adding attributes support for NPCs as well)

[Vuulgar]

Have you considered a pregnancy mod like Beeing Female? If it is possible to determine consensual or not, spouse, cheating, etc the pregnancy might  hurt or help Attributes more as it progresses to being more visible. This would mesh well with Fame also...gossip gets around. Just a thought as I played earlier as I was enjoying watching the stats from your mod. Thanks again!

[m.skynet]

Have you considered a pregnancy mod like Beeing Female? If it is possible to determine consensual or not, spouse, cheating, etc the pregnancy might  hurt or help Attributes more as it progresses to being more visible. This would mesh well with Fame also...gossip gets around. Just a thought as I played earlier as I was enjoying watching the stats from your mod. Thanks again!

 

I have considered it - looking at integrating with Being Female is on my todo list.

However it will take time, since I have other points in todo list that are higher in priority.

Most immediate in my todo list:

* finish reviewing Datt attribute mechanics and add support for tracking NPC attributes (doing it now)

* rewrite code for Devious Consequences to be more robust and maintenable (its pretty messy now)

After those two, I will continue looking into how to integrate with other mods

[qawsedrftg765]

Hi just wanted to say, really like your mod and have a little suggestion. 

 

Debuff called "Trembling" when equipped with a vaginal plug and at arousal > 80 the PC is trembling, with a chance to drop your weapon on swing comined with lower archery/one/two handed attributes.

 

Also

 

Exasperated:: at 100 arousal and belted the PC can't  focus and is demoralized by her insatiable lust. Effect -20% attack speed + 25% magicka costs.  

[Guest]

Personally I liked most aspects of the non-linear progression, so I'll be sad to see it go. But I suppose that purely linear progressions could play the same way, as long as we get a lot of customization options for the increase and decrease penalties. Think you'll have MCM configuration for the plug fetish increases?

 

Also, I was hoping that you could make the self esteem boost from sex go away depending on soul state. I had some cases where I agreed to consensual animations that were intended to be bad for the character (humiliating or blackmail) and the self esteem was boosted as a result.

[m.skynet]

Hi just wanted to say, really like your mod and have a little suggestion. 

 

Debuff called "Trembling" when equipped with a vaginal plug and at arousal > 80 the PC is trembling, with a chance to drop your weapon on swing comined with lower archery/one/two handed attributes.

 

Also

 

Exasperated:: at 100 arousal and belted the PC can't  focus and is demoralized by her insatiable lust. Effect -20% attack speed + 25% magicka costs.  

 

First of all, thanks

 

Second, I like your suggestions. When I finish some refactorings, I will start rewriting Devious Consequences and will probably use your suggestions. "Exasperated" should be easy to implement; about "Trembling" - will need to take a look how weapon drops can be scripted (still a noob at mod making here )

[m.skynet]

Personally I liked most aspects of the non-linear progression, so I'll be sad to see it go. But I suppose that purely linear progressions could play the same way, as long as we get a lot of customization options for the increase and decrease penalties. Think you'll have MCM configuration for the plug fetish increases?

 

Also, I was hoping that you could make the self esteem boost from sex go away depending on soul state. I had some cases where I agreed to consensual animations that were intended to be bad for the character (humiliating or blackmail) and the self esteem was boosted as a result.

 

I prefer non-linear progression too, but I found that it is too easy to forget edge-cases and not take them into account if you are using percentages for all attribute changes. Also, it makes harder to design the big picture of attribute inter-workings, and also, since I am implementing now NPC support, I am currently tracking attributes for PC and NPCs as faction ranks - so there is a willpower faction, pride faction etc. This allows me to do nice things like set conditions in CK, but also it forces to use integer numbers as attribute values... one of the goals of current refactoring is to transfer as much as possible of script logic into game engine, as I find it is inherently more effective at managing lots of small concurrent tasks - thus lessening overall script load.

 

About decrease/increase pentalties - doing it in the refactored version, almost everything is configurable via PapyrusUtil values and MCM, so it is accessible from other mods.

 

Plug fetish increases - what do you mean?

 

About self-esteem boost - incorporated this in the new version --> self-esteem will be increased on sex event only if player is not a victim and soul state is either free or willing sub (no self-esteem increases for forced slaves)

[qawsedrftg765]

 

Hi just wanted to say, really like your mod and have a little suggestion. 

 

Debuff called "Trembling" when equipped with a vaginal plug and at arousal > 80 the PC is trembling, with a chance to drop your weapon on swing comined with lower archery/one/two handed attributes.

 

Also

 

Exasperated:: at 100 arousal and belted the PC can't  focus and is demoralized by her insatiable lust. Effect -20% attack speed + 25% magicka costs.  

 

First of all, thanks

 

Second, I like your suggestions. When I finish some refactorings, I will start rewriting Devious Consequences and will probably use your suggestions. "Exasperated" should be easy to implement; about "Trembling" - will need to take a look how weapon drops can be scripted (still a noob at mod making here )

 

Awesome. I know Kimy's mod has a on-hit drop chance for one of her sex-attack parameters. You could her her src. 

[El_Duderino]

about "Trembling" - will need to take a look how weapon drops can be scripted (still a noob at mod making here )

 

Really looking forward to this mod's evolution.   I gave your mod's current version a quick spin and really liked how it integrated itself into the game.

 

An arousal based weapon drop system, IIRC random instead of on-hit based, is also present in Skyrimll's SL Hormones mod. I think in this mod it was part of the 'Bimbo Curse'.