Devious Attributes 2019-5-7

[m.skynet]

You could maybe make simple integration into mods, using patches for simple tweaks. A good stepping stone, for getting the mod used straight away...

 

 

 

Possible patch ideas...

 

 

 

1. Sexlab aroused redux

 

Low self esteem = Players arousal reduces daily by 10%

High self esteem = 2% arousal added each day

 

http://www.loverslab.com/files/file/1421-sexlab-aroused-redux/

 

 

 

2. Sexlab aroused creatures

 

Low self esteem and high submissive = reduces animals sexual arousal upper level to 50% less, that is set in the MCM menu. For animals to sexually abuse the player, as they see you as easier sexual prey. Animals always prey on the weak...

 

http://www.loverslab.com/files/file/1146-sexlab-aroused-creatures-2016-01-20/

 

 

 

3. Skooma Whore Addicted ( addon for Skooma Whore )

 

Lower willpower = a small chance to snatch and drink drugs at level 1 addiction and onwards

 

0% willpower = Steal cash for drugs

 

http://www.loverslab.com/files/file/2229-skooma-whore-addicted/

 

 

 

4. Weight Morphs ( you gain or lose weight from overeating )

 

Low willpower = Eat some food randomly, 4 times a day, from your inventory, to hell with the diet... you think, at low willpower...

100% willpower = 1% weight - loss daily, despite eating habits...

 

http://www.loverslab.com/files/file/2362-weightmorphs/

 

 

 

5. Deviously Cursed Loot

 

100% submissive = 5% random chance to get collared after sleeping

50% submissive = 2% random chance to get collared after sleeping

 

0% willpower = 50% chance to get drugged when whoring yourself out, you just can't say no

 

http://www.loverslab.com/files/file/1216-deviously-cursed-loot/

 

 

 

6. Beeing female

 

Pride = Pride increases daily, when pregnant. Buff 10% better prices in shops

 

http://www.loverslab.com/files/file/1284-beeingfemale/

 

 

 

7. Realistic needs and disease

 

Very Hungry = 2% less self esteem per hour ( debuff = 5% slower at 0% self esteem )

Gluttony = 1% increase in self esteem per hour ( buff = 5% faster at 100% self esteem )

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/26228/?

 

 

 

Characters expression... I don't know if you already have this, but facial expressions changing with moods...

 

 

 

Just some possible ideas...

 

Very interesting ideas, thanks!

I am starting now with integrations to other mods, so I will think how I can use your suggestions

 

[Guest]

Hey m.skynet,

 

With 0.3, I've noticed my willpower keeps getting brought down to the same level as my self esteem. Also, it seems like the self esteem slider in the MCM menu is reading its value from the pride slider somehow. (Try setting them to different values, exiting and returning)

[m.skynet]

Hey m.skynet,

 

With 0.3, I've noticed my willpower keeps getting brought down to the same level as my self esteem. Also, it seems like the self esteem slider in the MCM menu is reading its value from the pride slider somehow. (Try setting them to different values, exiting and returning)

 

Thanks, found those MCM issues. (facepalm - no more writing MCM code with copy-paste! )

About willpower getting brought down to the same level - currently, max willpower is limited by self-esteem.  The idea here that the lower is self-esteem, mental strength to resist is lower. Does it make sense? (I am open to suggestions, so...)

[Guest]

 

Hey m.skynet,

 

With 0.3, I've noticed my willpower keeps getting brought down to the same level as my self esteem. Also, it seems like the self esteem slider in the MCM menu is reading its value from the pride slider somehow. (Try setting them to different values, exiting and returning)

 

Thanks, found those MCM issues. (facepalm - no more writing MCM code with copy-paste! )

About willpower getting brought down to the same level - currently, max willpower is limited by self-esteem.  The idea here that the lower is self-esteem, mental strength to resist is lower. Does it make sense? (I am open to suggestions, so...)

 

 

Yeah I thought it might be something like that. That does make sense, as otherwise since Willpower regenerates you couldn't ever get submissiveness to stay above 50% consistently.

 

If you're gonna do this, how about making willpower regenerate quite quickly and/or self esteem degrade more slowly than pride? That way when pride is low an self esteem is high, submissiveness can fluctuate a lot in a small time period.

 

The rough stages I'm imagining are:

Day 1 (0% submissive): PC is captured with all stats at 100, is extremely resistant

 

Day 2 (fluctuates between 3% and 20%): After some punishment, self esteem is at ~90 and pride is at ~50. If willpower is low, PC can only "meekly refuse". But if the PC is allowed to get well rested willpower will increase and she will be able to resist strongly the next day, until one or two punishments

 

Day 3 (fluctuates between 10% and 40%): More punishment, self esteem is ~80 and pride is  ~ 25. Now when willpower is low the player can at best give "neutral" responses because they're so weak/exhausted. If they sleep well their willpower can reach 90 again, but will quickly drop if punished again.

 

Day 4 (fluctuates between 15% and 60%): Self esteem ~70, pride ~12.5. Now when willpower is less than pride the PC is very submissive, and will at least grudgingly agree to do whatever is asked. Even when well rested, it's hard to strongly refuse requests. But they can be made to do humiliating things (beg, dance, etc.) and be taunted about it when their submissiveness returns to normal.

 

 

Day 5 (fluctuates between 40% and 80%): Self esteem ~50, pride ~7. PC never resist, when will is low they will do very humiliating or uncharacteristic things enthusiastically.

 

 

Basically I think it's good when there's some space between "PC resists" and "PC submits" where the PC can be made to submit temporarily, but then regain their senses the next morning and be embarrassed about it. Probably because that's a trope in the porn I watch, probably not everyone's cup of tea.

 

In fact this could be done as one of many MCM options if you added a slider to control how quickly willpower is restored, there's probably no reason to design the stats around any single progression.

[GreatCroco]

 

You could maybe make simple integration into mods, using patches for simple tweaks. A good stepping stone, for getting the mod used straight away...

 

Very interesting ideas, thanks!

I am starting now with integrations to other mods, so I will think how I can use your suggestions

Don't make the mistake of including patches in the main mod. Build separate mods which have the main mod as reference. This makes patching easier and decouples important parts. This also makes building against a specific version of the main API much easier.

[m.skynet]

 

 

You could maybe make simple integration into mods, using patches for simple tweaks. A good stepping stone, for getting the mod used straight away...

 

Very interesting ideas, thanks!

I am starting now with integrations to other mods, so I will think how I can use your suggestions

Don't make the mistake of including patches in the main mod. Build separate mods which have the main mod as reference. This makes patching easier and decouples important parts. This also makes building against a specific version of the main API much easier.

 

 

This is my first mod, and I am still struggling with finding good practices to follow, learning how to do stuff. (this is very noticeable I think )

So, thanks for another good advice! 

 

Regarding patches - I think I will remove hard dependencies to a bare minimum in the original package and add additional .esp packages with buffs/debuffs and integrations.

[m.skynet]

Uploaded a new version. I'd like to hear feedback, if someone decides to take it for a try. It shouldn't require a fresh save, at least on my machine in-place script update worked - so I am also interested if in-place upgrade works , or the recent changes require a fresh save..

[xTrogdorx]

 

• Any collar worn
  • Embarrased - speech debuff, proportional to level
  • Less self-esteem increase if Soul State = Free Spirit
• Any devious device worn in sight
  • Pride & self-esteem periodic decrease
  • Embarrased - speech debuff, proportional to level and number of devices
• Any devious device worn
  • While consensual sex -> pride/self-esteem decrease, proportional to number of devices
  • While victim -> extra pride/self-esteem decrease
• Vibration event from plugs/piercings
  • Willpower decrease -> plugs cause more decrease than piercings

 

Your mod seems to consider the wearing of devices as always a negative. While I can understand this would be the case if the devices were placed on you by cursed loot or a master or somesuch, sometimes I like to have my character put them on herself, just because I (and by extension, my character) like them - they're toys I use when the mood strikes me. Sometimes I just use them in my character's home while playing with the spouse, other times I like to strut around in public. So, it would be nice if the mod could detect the source of the device - if it was an external source, use one set of willpower/pride/self esteem value modifiers, if it was the player, use a different set.

[Guest]

 

• Any collar worn
  • Embarrased - speech debuff, proportional to level
  • Less self-esteem increase if Soul State = Free Spirit
• Any devious device worn in sight
  • Pride & self-esteem periodic decrease
  • Embarrased - speech debuff, proportional to level and number of devices
• Any devious device worn
  • While consensual sex -> pride/self-esteem decrease, proportional to number of devices
  • While victim -> extra pride/self-esteem decrease
• Vibration event from plugs/piercings
  • Willpower decrease -> plugs cause more decrease than piercings

 

Your mod seems to consider the wearing of devices as always a negative. While I can understand this would be the case if the devices were placed on you by cursed loot or a master or somesuch, sometimes I like to have my character put them on herself, just because I (and by extension, my character) like them - they're toys I use when the mood strikes me. Sometimes I just use them in my character's home while playing with the spouse, other times I like to strut around in public. So, it would be nice if the mod could detect the source of the device - if it was an external source, use one set of willpower/pride/self esteem value modifiers, if it was the player, use a different set.

 

 

I think that's what the "soul state" is for. If it is set to "willing" the positives and negatives will be switched.

[m.skynet]

 

• Any collar worn
  • Embarrased - speech debuff, proportional to level
  • Less self-esteem increase if Soul State = Free Spirit
• Any devious device worn in sight
  • Pride & self-esteem periodic decrease
  • Embarrased - speech debuff, proportional to level and number of devices
• Any devious device worn
  • While consensual sex -> pride/self-esteem decrease, proportional to number of devices
  • While victim -> extra pride/self-esteem decrease
• Vibration event from plugs/piercings
  • Willpower decrease -> plugs cause more decrease than piercings

 

Your mod seems to consider the wearing of devices as always a negative. While I can understand this would be the case if the devices were placed on you by cursed loot or a master or somesuch, sometimes I like to have my character put them on herself, just because I (and by extension, my character) like them - they're toys I use when the mood strikes me. Sometimes I just use them in my character's home while playing with the spouse, other times I like to strut around in public. So, it would be nice if the mod could detect the source of the device - if it was an external source, use one set of willpower/pride/self esteem value modifiers, if it was the player, use a different set.

 

 

Hmm.. haven't considered this use-case. It does make sense though - when I will start implementing this part, I will look into how what you are saying may be accomplished.  (the design you are refering to is not yet implemented, it is in planning stage currently)

 

 

 

• Any collar worn
  • Embarrased - speech debuff, proportional to level
  • Less self-esteem increase if Soul State = Free Spirit
• Any devious device worn in sight
  • Pride & self-esteem periodic decrease
  • Embarrased - speech debuff, proportional to level and number of devices
• Any devious device worn
  • While consensual sex -> pride/self-esteem decrease, proportional to number of devices
  • While victim -> extra pride/self-esteem decrease
• Vibration event from plugs/piercings
  • Willpower decrease -> plugs cause more decrease than piercings

 

Your mod seems to consider the wearing of devices as always a negative. While I can understand this would be the case if the devices were placed on you by cursed loot or a master or somesuch, sometimes I like to have my character put them on herself, just because I (and by extension, my character) like them - they're toys I use when the mood strikes me. Sometimes I just use them in my character's home while playing with the spouse, other times I like to strut around in public. So, it would be nice if the mod could detect the source of the device - if it was an external source, use one set of willpower/pride/self esteem value modifiers, if it was the player, use a different set.

 

 

I think that's what the "soul state" is for. If it is set to "willing" the positives and negatives will be switched.

 

 

Yes and no. Soul State is essentially a type of relationship between master and the player - so if PC submitted willingly, stat calculations will be different.

 

For this use-case I will probably need to have separate lists of devices that were applied by the player and by other (hostile?) events (like DCL and SD+). Not sure if this kind of thing can be tracked (I assume it can), I will look into it when I will start integrations to other mods (hopefully next week)

[Karma199696]

wow !  just reading the description, i love your mod more and more ad every new version ! (and for extention you for creating it ! )

 

i don't like adding mods mid-game, but i'm almost certainly starting a new game on next week-end in which case i'll surely add your mod !

so i'll be able to give you feed back too and not only opinions

[leatherliz]

Is SD+ a hard dependency for Devious Consequences.esp? I only ask because of all the talk of hard/soft dependencies and my head being addled and confused with fever and sickness (damnable mortal shell).

[Guest]

Hey m.skynet,

 

Unless you changed it in a recent submit, I think your "if obedience >= willpower, submissiveness == obedience" is broken. You probably want to take the max of obedience and normal submissiveness, otherwise low willpower makes for lower submissiveness

[m.skynet]

Is SD+ a hard dependency for Devious Consequences.esp? I only ask because of all the talk of hard/soft dependencies and my head being addled and confused with fever and sickness (damnable mortal shell).

 

No. Starting from 0.4.0 the only hard dependencies are Sexlab and Sexlab Aroused Redux

[m.skynet]

Hey m.skynet,

 

Unless you changed it in a recent submit, I think your "if obedience >= willpower, submissiveness == obedience" is broken. You probably want to take the max of obedience and normal submissiveness, otherwise low willpower makes for lower submissiveness

 

Thanks for reporting this! I check this.

 

[Guest]

 

Hey m.skynet,

 

Unless you changed it in a recent submit, I think your "if obedience >= willpower, submissiveness == obedience" is broken. You probably want to take the max of obedience and normal submissiveness, otherwise low willpower makes for lower submissiveness

 

Thanks for reporting this! I check this.

 

 

 

You're welcome. I realized I might not have been clear before, so what I meant is I think this will happen:

 

SE :50, Pride:0, Willpower:50, Obedience:10 implies Submissiveness: 50

 

SE :50, Pride:0, Willpower:0, Obedience:10 implies Submissiveness: 10

[Knaeggchen]

Why not giving more stats to the character to check if she enjoys it?

You could expand that "Decision Type" idea into a tag based system. Each task/command has one or more tags, which will then increase whenever you are willingly obeying those commands, and decrease over time or if you refuse to submit. Depending on your stat for that tag, it could also change the way your other stats and decisions are influenced. Tags could be:

 

General Service (no Tag):
Doing all non-sex and non-humiliating tasks. Basicly a "normal" Maid.
Masochism:
Any task, that can be considered "hurtful" (I.E. being whipped or wearing shock piercings).
Humiliation:
Whenever you're character might feel humiliated like peeing or public sex/nudity.
Pleasure/Nymphomania:
Whenever your character's erogenous parts are being "handled" or any kind of sex. This means that plugs and vibrators also counts on this, so does blowjobs and the like.

 

You could also use those stats in non-slave things. I.E. it increases your masochism if you willingly put on some devious devices and could be counted as "positive" even if you were forced into wearing them if your masochism is high enough.

Those stats could also be used for calculating submissiveness.

 

 

I would also like to see Willingpower to be somewhat more representive for your REAL willpower to actually fight back. That means that it should decrease quite a lot if you struggle hard and get punished heavily for doing so (you realize how futile it is to resist and looses your will to fight back), but decreases only slightly if you obey. But by doing so, your other stats do decrease heavily as well. It should regenerate only very slowly while being awake, and "decently" while being asleep.

I would love to see a system that makes it hard to stay resistant and tries to "break" your character. So you would have to take the right decisions in order to keep your sanity and not fall into submissiveness and become a true loving slave.

 

Also, since you didn't state how exactly your Soul State is calculated: I would suggest to give it a number ranging from negative to positive, with specific areas representing a specific state (i.e. -100 to -25 = Willing Sub; -25 to +25 Free Spirit; +25 to +100 Forced Slave).

 

 

Edit: You should also consider adding different buffs/debuffs for specific stats. Currently, your suggestions posted aren't that extensive. If you didn't do it already, you could have a look here:

http://www.creationkit.com/Actor_Value

[m.skynet]

 

 

Hey m.skynet,

 

Unless you changed it in a recent submit, I think your "if obedience >= willpower, submissiveness == obedience" is broken. You probably want to take the max of obedience and normal submissiveness, otherwise low willpower makes for lower submissiveness

 

Thanks for reporting this! I check this.

 

 

 

You're welcome. I realized I might not have been clear before, so what I meant is I think this will happen:

 

SE :50, Pride:0, Willpower:50, Obedience:10 implies Submissiveness: 50

 

SE :50, Pride:0, Willpower:0, Obedience:10 implies Submissiveness: 10

 

 

Fixed this - oversight on my part. When seeing oversights such as this, I am really tempted to closely follow the KISS principle (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

In any case, I've put out a fix, with several minor changes

 

Now submissiveness will be calculated as Max(Obedience, [ Calculated submissiveness with the formula]) - so this way a conditioning can "override" submissive tendencies that depend on willpower, self-esteem and pride.

 

Since Obedience will decrease each day (by configurable amount), this should create a need for regular "training" - since a master would have interest to maintain the conditioning.

[m.skynet]

Why not giving more stats to the character to check if she enjoys it?

You could expand that "Decision Type" idea into a tag based system. Each task/command has one or more tags, which will then increase whenever you are willingly obeying those commands, and decrease over time or if you refuse to submit. Depending on your stat for that tag, it could also change the way your other stats and decisions are influenced. Tags could be:

 

General Service (no Tag):

Doing all non-sex and non-humiliating tasks. Basicly a "normal" Maid.

Masochism:

Any task, that can be considered "hurtful" (I.E. being whipped or wearing shock piercings).

Humiliation:

Whenever you're character might feel humiliated like peeing or public sex/nudity.

Pleasure/Nymphomania:

Whenever your character's erogenous parts are being "handled" or any kind of sex. This means that plugs and vibrators also counts on this, so does blowjobs and the like.

 

You could also use those stats in non-slave things. I.E. it increases your masochism if you willingly put on some devious devices and could be counted as "positive" even if you were forced into wearing them if your masochism is high enough.

Those stats could also be used for calculating submissiveness.

 

 

I would also like to see Willingpower to be somewhat more representive for your REAL willpower to actually fight back. That means that it should decrease quite a lot if you struggle hard and get punished heavily for doing so (you realize how futile it is to resist and looses your will to fight back), but decreases only slightly if you obey. But by doing so, your other stats do decrease heavily as well. It should regenerate only very slowly while being awake, and "decently" while being asleep.

I would love to see a system that makes it hard to stay resistant and tries to "break" your character. So you would have to take the right decisions in order to keep your sanity and not fall into submissiveness and become a true loving slave.

 

Also, since you didn't state how exactly your Soul State is calculated: I would suggest to give it a number ranging from negative to positive, with specific areas representing a specific state (i.e. -100 to -25 = Willing Sub; -25 to +25 Free Spirit; +25 to +100 Forced Slave).

 

 

Edit: You should also consider adding different buffs/debuffs for specific stats. Currently, your suggestions posted aren't that extensive. If you didn't do it already, you could have a look here:

http://www.creationkit.com/Actor_Value

 

Regarding decision types being a tag system - thats exactly my intention - the different decision types that map to fetish attributes in the end, can be mixed and matched - so each decision can contain up-to four attribute tags at the same time

How it is done :there are four possible events - Datt_PlayerDecision1, Datt_PlayerDecision2, Datt_PlayerDecision3, Datt_PlayerDecision4

So, with event Datt_PlayerDecision1 another mod can send one decision type, with Datt_PlayerDecision2, you can send two decision types and so on. So, if in your mod you have give-out a request that is both humiliating, painful and involves sex, and the player agrees, but not eagerly you would use Datt_PlayerDecision3 event and send 4 numbers as parameters - something like this

int decisionEventId = ModEvent.Create("Datt_PlayerDecision3") 
ModEvent.PushInt(decisionEventId, 1) ;player response type - agree, but not eagerly 
ModEvent.PushInt(decisionEventId, 1) ;decision type - humiliating 
ModEvent.PushInt(decisionEventId, 2) ;decision type - painful 
ModEvent.PushInt(decisionEventId, 4) ;decision type - sex related 
ModEvent.Send(decisionEventId)

You can look here for details : wiki page for modders

 

Regarding willpower : I imagine Devious Attributes as an infrastructure for other mods to leverage, to allow tracking of player decisions that are presented to the player by other mods. So, Devious Attributes by itself won't present any decisions for the player. Willpower will be calculated by results of player decisions sent by other mods, also it will be calculated by reacting to various events.

Also:

• Willpower will regenerate slowly when awake (with pride and self-esteem values giving bonus to regeneration - the higher they are, the faster willpower regenerates)
• Willpower will regenerate during sleep time at faster rate (configurable)
• When I will start working on integrations to other mods (hopefully by the next week), willpower will increase/decrease based on various events in other mods. For example, trying to pick DD locks will decrease willpower. Orgasms will decrease willpower. etc

 

Regarding buffs/debuffs from attributes. I am working on some buffs/debuffs to be tied to willpower, pride and self-esteem. You can see on the mod post page my current plan so far, with indicators on what is already implemented and what is not. If you have more suggestions about what kind of buffs/debuffs those attributes can have (without being overpowering and game breaking that is), I'd love to hear them.

 

Regarding "Soul State" - currently it has only three distinct values, to signify the type of relationship between PC and master. Not sure that it will be a good fit for the mechanic I think about to have it as a range of values. If it will be a range of values, what kind of interactions do you think can change the values from the middle towards either willing sub or forced slave?

[Guest]

 

 

Regarding willpower : I imagine Devious Attributes as an infrastructure for other mods to leverage, to allow tracking of player decisions that are presented to the player by other mods. So, Devious Attributes by itself won't present any decisions for the player. Willpower will be calculated by results of player decisions sent by other mods, also it will be calculated by reacting to various events.

Also:

• Willpower will regenerate slowly when awake (with pride and self-esteem values giving bonus to regeneration - the higher they are, the faster willpower regenerates)
• Willpower will regenerate during sleep time at faster rate (configurable)
• When I will start working on integrations to other mods (hopefully by the next week), willpower will increase/decrease based on various events in other mods. For example, trying to pick DD locks will decrease willpower. Orgasms will decrease willpower. etc

 

 

 

Despite this, could you establish some loose principles to guide how these stats are used? I am trying to make a small story mod using this framework which will involve a possibility to break the PC's will, using punishments and orgasm denial. I can't figure out whether I should be basing checks on willpower, or submissiveness, or both. I could just make up my own rules, but then I will feel compelled to change them later if different mods end up using different stats to mean different things

 

So for example, if the PC is being whipped until she reveals some information, should her ability to keep refusing be based on willpower or submissiveness?

 

It is tempting for me to use submissiveness for everything, but if orgasm reduces only willpower, the PC could be kept in soulgem plugs for 1000 years and it would not make her less resistant...

[Guest]

Psst!

 

Sorry to bump, but you need to take the minimum of the attribute and max stat value, not the maximum . Right now all stats go to 100 when a decision is made.

[m.skynet]

Psst!

 

Sorry to bump, but you need to take the minimum of the attribute and max stat value, not the maximum . Right now all stats go to 100 when a decision is made.

 

Thanks, I will fix this.

Also, I wrote initial version of guide on how to use the attributes. What do you think about it, about the mechanics? Anything I missed perhaps?

(you can see the guide here)

 

edit : yet another facepalm  

Thats what you get for coding late at night instead of going to sleep

[Guest]

 

Psst!

 

Sorry to bump, but you need to take the minimum of the attribute and max stat value, not the maximum . Right now all stats go to 100 when a decision is made.

 

Thanks, I will fix this.

Also, I wrote initial version of guide on how to use the attributes. What do you think about it, about the mechanics? Anything I missed perhaps?

(you can see the guide here)

 

edit : yet another facepalm

Thats what you get for coding late at night instead of going to sleep

 

 

Yeah that's extremely helpful! Thanks!

[Knaeggchen]

After thinking about your system a bit more, I came up with following suggestion:

Firstly, I do not see a reason to keep Self-Esteem and Obedience if you already have Pride and Submissiveness (what exactly is the difference there anyway?). Both are too similiar to the other stat, which makes it needlessly confusing. Thus I would recommend to scrap them and/or merge them into the other ones. If you still need something more, you can try to come up with a bit more unique, like a Mind/Reasoning stat or so.

Willpower: Required to disobey your master's command. It will reduces whenever you refuse a command and are being forced/punished for it, depending on how bad the punishment is. For modders it should represent how hard you actually can struggle back.
Pride: The thing your character holds unto in order not to fall into despair. It boosts your Soul State gain when resisting and slow down your loss when obeying.
Fetish traits: Increases whenever you are submitting into following corresponding commands. It has the opposite effect of Pride.
Soul State: It represents your current mental state/resistance. It goes up whenever you fight back, and goes down if you obey. I would recommend to not bind this to specific actors/masters, but rather as a generic stat. For modders this stat might be usefull for deciding what action your master/character might take, that doesn't come with a decision (i.e. your master might punish or reward you on a daily basis, whereas your character has no influence on)
Submissiveness: This is a value only usefull for modders. It shows what direction your character leads to and thus, if you are able to obey or disobey. If it is high, you won't be able to fight back, back if it is low (negative?) your character might refuse to happily obey this comand as well.

When refusing a command, you gain a bit of Soul State (->forced slave). By obeying your pride and soul state go down and its corresponding fetish traits go up. Pride goes up for succeeding in different tasks, while your fetish traits go down over time. That way, your character will "break" if being enslaved for too long, but will be able to recover once you are "freed" again.
Pride and fetisch traits should only accessed by mods in special circumstances. This idea would remove the pride for slaves (do slaves have any "real" pride in the first place?) and would replace it with their fetish traits instead. If you still need a distinct stat for slave-pride I would suggest to create a whole different stat, instead of using pride.

As I said, you have way too many stats that are similiar to each other and it is not that apparent what exactly they do. That makes it easy to be confused and misused by modders. The ideas I suggested above is only a very basic one, but can be modified to add a more stats as well as more complex calculations. Nonethless, it is best to keep the stats and functions a modder has to access as low as possible, in order to keep prevent misuse.



And for how it works for modders:
Basicly, a modder can send a number of decisions to DAtt along with their response type (struggle, obeying, neutral), a corresponding decision type (fetish trait that applies there like masochism and humiliation) and a possible strength modifier for one or both of them (heavily struggling, or very humiliating) as well as the results each decision will lead to (basicly the decision type/fetish trait the as well as it's "strength"). DAtt will then calculate which options you are elligable to choose (a willing slave won't be able to struggle heavily) and changes the character's stats according to the selected decision.

Example:
Your master orders you to "make him feel good". The mod gives Datt following choices:
Disobey and insult the master (struggle heavily)
Do nothing/Ignore (struggle slightly)
Beg for forgiveness (neutral)
Give him a BJ (obey but not eagerly)
Have sex with him (obey eagerly)

Your mod then checks which decisions are elligable. Say you're character is a (heavily) "Forced Slave", then it will only return the first three options.
The player then chooses one of the available options and the mod sends the resulting action back to your mod.
In case you chose to insult your master, the mod will first fire a event that the character chose to struggle strongly (so your Willpower will go accordingly). Your master then decides to punish you by whipping you in public. This will result in humiliating and masochism and will be sent back to DAtt again. DAtt then again will adjust the player's stat accordingly.



This might not be the best way to handle this stuff, but it will at least give you an idea.

Generally speaking, I would love to see this mod to always tend to force the character in becoming a willing slave. This way the player has to choose his decisions carefully (I.E. he should consider obeying more simple and "tame" commands as this will save willpower), but will still lead to submissiveness, if the character is forced in being a slave for too long (a.k.a. being "broken"). If a player doesn't like it that way, he can simply change some settings (like Willpower regeneration) and he is good to go.
I think of this mod being a framework that saves both, the character's mental state and resistance, as well as it's fetish traits. So mods like apropos and aroused can access those and change accordingly.

Also, something you might want to consider: Add a "probability/likeability/resistance" (can't think of a better word) for each trait, that the player can set at the beginning. This value will then change the way specific traits increase/decrease. I.E. a player can choose to be highly resistant to masochism, but vulnerable to exhibitionism. So his character will hardly become a masochistic character, but can become an exhibitionist pretty easily. Those values should be permanent, so they won't change unless the player does so himself in the options.

[Guest]

Personally I think the way the current stats operate makes lots of sense, and is definitely "good enough" to work with. The only possible confusion is the effect of low will power vs high submissiveness, but I think that the following distinction makes sense: low will power means you can't refuse, high submissiveness means you must obey. Even if you are very tired (low willpower) that won't be enough to force you agree to do things, you will just do nothing (neutral). High submissiveness (which implies low willpower) means something more, that the PC is beaten and will agree to demands because they don't think there is an alternative. Obedience is a longer term conditioning.

 

So really all three do similar things, but they operate on different timescales- willpower is short timescale, submissiveness is medium, obedience is long.

 

As for pride/self esteem, I think the difference is good enough (high self esteem means you are confident you can succeed, pride means you have succeeded in the past and gain confidence from it). That can be used for dialogue flavor and to compute submissiveness.

 

 

I think the default values make sense too if they're meant to be for a "normal" character, based on the following thresholds: 50 willpower (1 victim event) is "weakened", making it harder to fight back, 25 willpower (2 victim events) is "very tired" making it impossible to struggle out of difficult restraints, 10 (4 victim events) is "exhausted" (can't do anything but pass out on the spot). Then if I want to make an extremely resilient character i can adjust the willpower decrease to scale appropriately (maybe it should take 10 to get to "weakened"!) and similarly for other stats.