[CK2] Interest check: would you play a succubus non-explicit mod?

[ngppgn]

Hi everyone.

 

First off, I'm pretty new to the community, so I apologise in advance for any mistake I might incur in (I hope they are not many). Also I should not I'm not a native English speaker, so if you find any oddity in my writing, you can safely chalk them to that.

 

I'm working on a modification for Crusader Kings 2 (called tentatively Reign of the Succubus) that adds some dark fantasy elements to vanilla CK2. More exactly, I'll allow to play as a succubus, and explore the intrincacies, troubles, internal conflicts and power rise of a characters whose use his abilities to, trough attratction and seduction, destroy the lives of others.

 

The reason I'm in doubt, and therefore making this thread, is twofold:

 

a) I'd like to potentially publish the mod on steam, therefore it can be too explicit or hardcore. However, I want to explore themes of sexuality, dominance, ect. So, I want to do this on the expirit of "indicating rather than showing" i.e. not giving too explicit/descriptive imaginery and event texts.

 

However, for me is ultimately more important to throughly explore the themes rather to omply to Steam and Paradox tastes, so I might be precluded from these platforms. In that case, I'd want to know if this community would be interested in this kind of mod (adult-oriented, but not in the direct approach e.g.the fantastic Dark World by dewguru does -by the way, check that out, it's awesome!).

 

 

So, here are some of the features that I've planned:

 

-Play as a character who find herself endowed with extraordinary power for seduction and for improving both her lifespam and qualities at the cost of damaging others.

 

-Deal with the consecuences of using your powers, both in the reaction of others and the effects your acts have on your own psyche.

 

-As your character develop, you can delve deeper in the nature of your powers, both uncovering the occult mythology behind them, and further increasing their reach.

 

-You can develop affinities for certain kinds of practices that tie in with different aspects of your nature as a succubus: hematophagy and thaumaturgy (i.e. apects of vampirism), communion with natural forces or aspects of the dark and the night, further spiritual influence over your victims...

 

-Overcome your connatural infertility through dark methods, and create a dynasty of temptresses

 

-Either try to hide in plain sight from the secular or ecclesiastical powers, or reveal yourself to the world, creating a cult to yourself.

 

 

At the moment, I'm in the stage of researching and rudimentary coding. I'm hunting for images that I might use for event pictures or just inspirational (check the attachement for some nice findings from pinterest) and collecting ideas for flavour texts. The actual coding might take a while, but I want to have part of the features ( the first two items in the list above ) in some two or three weeks. I intend to make the main version for vanilla, and try to touch vanilla flies the least I can, but for the moment I don't know how compatible it would be with other mods.

 

So, in any case, I'd like to hear your imput on wether you would welcome such a mod (also, any kind of imput, either on ideas, image sources, modding or anything else, go ahead and post them too!

Sccubus ideas.rar

[ReMeDy]

I think for Steam this would be a great idea. It would be like DW - The Steam Edition. Having said that, I can't speak for the LLab community, but what you mentioned sounds almost exactly like what we have with DW, so unless it offers something special to justify the omission of sex, I would prefer DW.

[ReMeDy]

If we're on the subject of pitching mod ideas, and if you're thinking about doing a mod strictly for the LLab community, then imo, what we really need for CKII is a sexual events mod. A mod with a crap ton of events. It would need to be for a fairly vanilla CKII experience to avoid modding conflicts, as events seem to conflict a lot. There would be event-chains firing off based on certain conditionals (ex. gender, protagonist in prison, married, etc. etc.), where the player must make choices. Some choices would play off of a character's traits (ex. strength, attractive, etc.) Perhaps a rapist captures the protagonist and she has to use her wits to escape. Perhaps her cruel-traited husband abuses her one night. Perhaps her liege makes a condescending remark towards women. Some events would be more complex than others, providing event-chains where the protagonist must make multiple choices. All these events offer role-playing options to further refine our protagonist's.

 

I can't emphasize enough though there needs to be a ton of events to make this work, otherwise there's not enough justification for players to give up other mods that may conflict over what this mod would eventually become.
 

I was planning on creating my own, and I've drafted up some events, but I've been so busy with CKII Game of Thrones modding, Neverwinter Nights modding, and full-time work that I'm shelving it, for now.

[Abraxis00]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I would absolutely try out a mod like this, and probably follow it as long as it's any good at all.  I'd love to see what ideas you came up with for this, and while the explicit content in Dark World or other mods is appealing, it's far from necessary to making an enjoyable experience for me.

[Tyrranus]

I think for Steam this would be a great idea. It would be like DW - The Steam Edition. Having said that, I can't speak for the LLab community, but what you mentioned sounds almost exactly like what we have with DW, so unless it offers something special to justify the omission of sex, I would prefer DW.

this is about how I feel on it... tho if you were to make a VERY story heavy mod, I could then see more interest. Like GREATLY expand on the RP elements of CK2 to provide a pseudo-CYOA. Something not many CK2 mods do is go very story intense so this could be a way to step out and draw attention to yours.

[ngppgn]

I think for Steam this would be a great idea. It would be like DW - The Steam Edition. Having said that, I can't speak for the LLab community, but what you mentioned sounds almost exactly like what we have with DW, so unless it offers something special to justify the omission of sex, I would prefer DW.

 

It would overlap Dark World in some sense (namely, the concept of succubi being a main theme, and some other more superficial resemblances) but with a different approach and orientation as I said. That being noted, I can see why someone would prefer DW - and I can't promising that anything of what I would do would be any special, even more so given that this would also be an exercise of creative writing on my part, and in a foreign language at that so... we'll see. But in any case I don't want my mod to rival DW in any sense, and any player can use one for one playthrough and the other for a different one

 

If we're on the subject of pitching mod ideas, and if you're thinking about doing a mod strictly for the LLab community, then imo, what we really need for CKII is a sexual events mod. A mod with a crap ton of events. It would need to be for a fairly vanilla CKII experience to avoid modding conflicts, as events seem to conflict a lot. There would be event-chains firing off based on certain conditionals (ex. gender, protagonist in prison, married, etc. etc.), where the player must make choices. Some choices would play off of a character's traits (ex. strength, attractive, etc.) Perhaps a rapist captures the protagonist and she has to use her wits to escape. Perhaps her cruel-traited husband abuses her one night. Perhaps her liege makes a condescending remark towards women. Some events would be more complex than others, providing event-chains where the protagonist must make multiple choices. All these events offer role-playing options to further refine our protagonist's.

 

I can't emphasize enough though there needs to be a ton of events to make this work, otherwise there's not enough justification for players to give up other mods that may conflict over what this mod would eventually become.

 

I was planning on creating my own, and I've drafted up some events, but I've been so busy with CKII Game of Thrones modding, Neverwinter Nights modding, and full-time work that I'm shelving it, for now.

 

Do you have a submod in the citadel forum? I didn't know; if so, I'll have to check it out! I fully understand your point and sympathise with it. However, there is something of a balancing act there: if you want compatibility, then you need your events to be self-contained and thus not affect significantly the core gameplay, but then, even if the fluff appears open-ended, it ends up having little impact -say, I add more education events. If these add/remove more traits, I need to recalibrate the vanilla education, generating incompatibility, else risking unbalancing or bloating the education mechanic.

 

(As a matter of fact, while I was brainstorming for this project, I kept coming into ideas that needed to sacrifice something. For example, I could implement options to use the mod in multiplayer, or for the ai, so have several rivalling dynasties of lust demons, but that would involve replacing traits by hidden modifiers, hidding the lovers of a characters from others, creating a whole event system for the ai (since ai can't handle targetted decisions without sacrificing game performance), etc. Thus my approach of making my mod primarily for vanilla, and making compatches for other mods if there is enough demand (I would most certainly compatch for AGOT, and HIP, since I play them more than vanilla).

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I would absolutely try out a mod like this, and probably follow it as long as it's any good at all.  I'd love to see what ideas you came up with for this, and while the explicit content in Dark World or other mods is appealing, it's far from necessary to making an enjoyable experience for me.

 

Oh, I wouldn't expect for anyone to "speak for the community"; perhaps I phrased myself badly in that regard. What I intended to mean is asking to the people here who play CK2 to give their individual opinion. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

That being said, thanks for your support! I hope to deliver some enjoyable content, within my humble capabilities.

 

 

I think for Steam this would be a great idea. It would be like DW - The Steam Edition. Having said that, I can't speak for the LLab community, but what you mentioned sounds almost exactly like what we have with DW, so unless it offers something special to justify the omission of sex, I would prefer DW.

this is about how I feel on it... tho if you were to make a VERY story heavy mod, I could then see more interest. Like GREATLY expand on the RP elements of CK2 to provide a pseudo-CYOA. Something not many CK2 mods do is go very story intense so this could be a way to step out and draw attention to yours.

 

 

And here is another design problem: say I produce x event chains. I can make them so it is more or less assured that every playthrough get all the content, but then the more story-driven the game becomes, the less replayable it is. And obviously I want the player to actually play CK2, not only be reading event text. So I need to strike a balance in making the events synergise with the mod mechanics. Getting something with quality, variety within the same playthrough and replayability is really hard and time consuming.

 

As an example of what I'm talking about, right now I'm scripting an event chain where an orphan appears in your court and your starting character adopst her out of compasion. The effect of the evnet is the same, vut there will have different descriptions depending on wether:

-your capital is coastal 

-your capital borders a river

-your capital is mountainous, foerested, desertic or something else

-The holding type of your capital

-wether or not it is winter when the event hits and your capital province is snowy.

 

That makes 11 description variations for the same event. Coming up with the description, putting it in english with a vocabulary which is at least passable and proofreading it for all of them, and that's just one event. I hope you may understand why the developement will be slow.

(off topic, can someone recomend any good dictionary of synonims?)

 

This bring me to another question: would you rather prefer that I start posting incomplete versions to try them out, if you want, or would you prefer to wait play something that is more feature-complete? For developement's sake, the former would be more interesting for me, but I reckon that potential player would lose interest if the first impresion is not good.

[ReMeDy]

I wouldn't worry about any language barriers. I say post it in broken English, then someone else will fix it for you. I know they will, because CKII is very easy to edit, and if your mod is good, people will offer to improve it. For example, DW has so many people offering a helping hand, that it's mind boggling, myself included.

[ReMeDy]

 

Do you have a submod in the citadel forum? I didn't know; if so, I'll have to check it out!

 

 

You mean for CKII or NWN? I'm not familiar with the Citadel forum, but I do participate on the NWN Vault forum. My CKII modding deals in strictly portraits atm (I'm working on a Game of Thrones sub-mod, too). The NWN mod I'm doing is currently a complete 10+ hour story, but I'm not quite ready to share the link on it yet, lol. Almost though.

[dewguru]

 

This bring me to another question: would you rather prefer that I start posting incomplete versions to try them out, if you want, or would you prefer to wait play something that is more feature-complete? For developement's sake, the former would be more interesting for me, but I reckon that potential player would lose interest if the first impresion is not good.

 

 

Consider this. You release it early to see if people like the concept. Turns out it isn't warmly received.

 

It doesn't matter. If you see the potential in what you created, and it's something that you want to make for your own enjoyment, then odds are someone out there will end up finding it enjoyable as well.

 

Also, even if it starts out cold in it's early postings, remember that some people see potential in things and will keep tabs on it. Waiting until the change log or the mod description includes enough to interest them to give it a serious play through (this is what I usually do personally). Others may try it, and never revisit it. Others won't even know about it until months later and view it as an enjoyable addition.

 

In other words, don't fret short term, initial feedback. Honestly, if no one seemed interested in my mod, I still would have done most of the work I did on it, just for my own playing pleasure. The fact that folks for the most part enjoy it, makes it interesting to add somethings that I may not have initially envisioned.

 

If you're interested in getting an initial reaction to see if your proof of concept is worth the work you're planning to put into it - then just do it.

[ngppgn]

I wouldn't worry about any language barriers. I say post it in broken English, then someone else will fix it for you. I know they will, because CKII is very easy to edit, and if your mod is good, people will offer to improve it. For example, DW has so many people offering a helping hand, that it's mind boggling, myself included.

 

That's certainly encouraging :-)

 

 

 

Do you have a submod in the citadel forum? I didn't know; if so, I'll have to check it out!

 

 

You mean for CKII or NWN? I'm not familiar with the Citadel forum, but I do participate on the NWN Vault forum. My CKII modding deals in strictly portraits atm (I'm working on a Game of Thrones sub-mod, too). The NWN mod I'm doing is currently a complete 10+ hour story, but I'm not quite ready to share the link on it yet, lol. Almost though.

 

 

I meant for CK2/AGOT. So, it's also a portrait submo?

 

 

 

This bring me to another question: would you rather prefer that I start posting incomplete versions to try them out, if you want, or would you prefer to wait play something that is more feature-complete? For developement's sake, the former would be more interesting for me, but I reckon that potential player would lose interest if the first impresion is not good.

 

 

Consider this. You release it early to see if people like the concept. Turns out it isn't warmly received.

 

It doesn't matter. If you see the potential in what you created, and it's something that you want to make for your own enjoyment, then odds are someone out there will end up finding it enjoyable as well.

 

Also, even if it starts out cold in it's early postings, remember that some people see potential in things and will keep tabs on it. Waiting until the change log or the mod description includes enough to interest them to give it a serious play through (this is what I usually do personally). Others may try it, and never revisit it. Others won't even know about it until months later and view it as an enjoyable addition.

 

In other words, don't fret short term, initial feedback. Honestly, if no one seemed interested in my mod, I still would have done most of the work I did on it, just for my own playing pleasure. The fact that folks for the most part enjoy it, makes it interesting to add somethings that I may not have initially envisioned.

 

If you're interested in getting an initial reaction to see if your proof of concept is worth the work you're planning to put into it - then just do it.

 

 

Thanks for the advice! I'll surely follow it.

 

---

 

Anyway, I'm waiting for some other modders to give me permission to use some of their assets, and starting to code the basic systems. The most basic mechanic is entralling and feeding: as long as you have positive health as a succubus, you are effectively eternally young. However, over time you'll lose health, so you'll need to prey upon other characters to retain your health.

 

In order to do this, you need to seduce and tumble them. The core idea behind the seduction mechanics are:

 

-) in this matter, you are basically a human, you don't have supernatural means to trick anyone into liking you - you'll still have a hard time seducing chaste characters, people that hate you, and you'll need to be in the same province as your target.

 

-) When you first tumble your target, he'll get a great opinion boost, but it will fade over time, so you'll need to keep visiting him/her to maintain it  Also s/he will not become your lover. Being lovers is a reciprocal relationship, your targets are just prey, and that's an assimetrical relation, and quite a different one. However, it might happen that you develop feelings for the ones you entrall.

 

-Subsequent feeding upon the same thrall will make him weaker, reducing its health, stripping him of his congenital strength and in some extreme cases, causing deformities in the process.

 

-Conversely, when your health is high enough, it can channel towards you anatomy, granting you a better congenital setup (e.g. making you taller, stronger, more attractive, etc).

 

-You need to manage your health level (you'll get warning events when it is too low or too high). If it gets too low, you may contract diseases which will further harm you; but if you vitality levels are too high you'll start being overflown with energy, feeling hyperactive and having some mental and personality issues like outbursts of rage, loss of concentration, etc.

 

-also, seeing people wither and die at your hand will not go without consequence: you may enter episodes of depression, stress, paranoia, and even walk your first steps into the descent to madness.

 

---

 

So, mechanically, this is the first task I'm trying to put together and balance out, so that you don't kill your victims like files and progress too fast, but neither do I want it to get too grindy. It's being fun to code.

 

Also, I've written a bit of fluff accounting for some of the "lore" I'm imagining behind my succubus, which I think tie nicely the medieval/early modern mythology with the mechanics I'll lay down.

 

Also, the mod will feature the traits from Congenital Overhaul by LancelotLoire, and some of the portraits assets of Geheimnisnacht: Warhammer fantasy by Silfae.

[ngppgn]

Somewhat belatedly, here is the fluff I mentioned in the prior post - I would appreciate any imput as to the quality of the writing, since the prose in the event descriptions may be not much different to the one here:

 

 

 

To the Doctor Emeritus Jacobus Sprenger,

 

My esteemed colleague and illustrated eminence, shivers of fear run through my sinful body as I collect my feeble strength to inform you that our most grave suspicions are true. The demons depicted in the Malleus Maleficarum, specially those labelled succubi, are but a feeble phantom of what I've come to track and almost encounter these late days. This creature seems like human in nature, insofar as his body obeys the composition dictated by the Philosopher with regard to the four elements, and according to Galenus and all the physicians with regards to the four humors. Nevertheless, her true demonic essence can be spied even in her carnal body, for unlike mortal men, where blood, phlegma and blie are distinct and separate, in the she-devil the four are in constant mixture and always boiling, giving her extraordinary conditions and capability.

 

Due to the instability of her body, she seems prompted to prey, seducing and luring incautious fellow, both male and female, into the trap of her embrace, then using the carnal intercourse to restore what nourishment she loses due to the constant movement of her fluids. But this same movement gives her the extraordinary ability of cure herself and even improve her body, becoming ever more temptive and dangerous to the good men of Christ.

 

My research has proven though, that both deprivation and overdose of her lustful urges can be detrimental to her, for the former will starve her, undermine her vitality and ability to sustain herself, and the latter will induce a neverending need to activity, making her lose focus and clarity of thought.

 

One thing is clear however, and that is that through instruction and force of will, anyone could resist her charms. She has no power over the mind of the good Christian, but that which her victims grant her voluntarily by falling to her allures.  And the miserable who indulge in the delights of her embrace, even if he could overtime get rid of the nefarious influence, will in the meantime be subservient to every desire of the capricious she-devil, and get more debilitated and bewitched the more she give him pleasure. And, while in some extreme case the signs of vice can show to plain sight, such as weakening of the flesh, sickness or spontaneous malformation, for the most part the minions of the she-devil can hide between the sheep of the Lord without problem.

Thus, we must remain vigilant, for if ever one of these succubi try to use her dark power to exert temporal influence over this land of the Lord, and we are not able to react, we could be condemned to hell in Earth even without of knowledge. In fact, this could be happening now, or have been already consummated, and we could die in our beds not knowing an ounce of the evil that might have unraveled.

Sincerely yours,

Henricus Krammer.

1 Fepruary, 1487

 

Also a piee of news for those interested: Conclave is going to mess big time with education events. This make my original plan of focusing first on the early life of the succubus quite unfeasible until I assess the changes in 2.5. Therefore, I will be focusing first on the seduction/feeding mechanic. I hope to have a first pre-alpha build ready for testing within these two weeks, containing only my version of these mechanics for the player.

[ReMeDy]

Somewhat belatedly, here is the fluff I mentioned in the prior post - I would appreciate any imput as to the quality of the writing, since the prose in the event descriptions may be not much different to the one here:

 

 

 

To the Doctor Emeritus Jacobus Sprenger,

 

My esteemed colleague and illustrated eminence, shivers of fear run through my sinful body as I collect my feeble strength to inform you that our most grave suspicions are true. The demons depicted in the Malleus Maleficarum, specially those labelled succubi, are but a feeble phantom of what I've come to track and almost encounter these late days. This creature seems like human in nature, insofar as his body obeys the composition dictated by the Philosopher with regard to the four elements, and according to Galenus and all the physicians with regards to the four humors. Nevertheless, her true demonic essence can be spied even in her carnal body, for unlike mortal men, where blood, phlegma and blie are distinct and separate, in the she-devil the four are in constant mixture and always boiling, giving her extraordinary conditions and capability.

 

Due to the instability of her body, she seems prompted to prey, seducing and luring incautious fellow, both male and female, into the trap of her embrace, then using the carnal intercourse to restore what nourishment she loses due to the constant movement of her fluids. But this same movement gives her the extraordinary ability of cure herself and even improve her body, becoming ever more temptive and dangerous to the good men of Christ.

 

My research has proven though, that both deprivation and overdose of her lustful urges can be detrimental to her, for the former will starve her, undermine her vitality and ability to sustain herself, and the latter will induce a neverending need to activity, making her lose focus and clarity of thought.

 

One thing is clear however, and that is that through instruction and force of will, anyone could resist her charms. She has no power over the mind of the good Christian, but that which her victims grant her voluntarily by falling to her allures.  And the miserable who indulge in the delights of her embrace, even if he could overtime get rid of the nefarious influence, will in the meantime be subservient to every desire of the capricious she-devil, and get more debilitated and bewitched the more she give him pleasure. And, while in some extreme case the signs of vice can show to plain sight, such as weakening of the flesh, sickness or spontaneous malformation, for the most part the minions of the she-devil can hide between the sheep of the Lord without problem.

Thus, we must remain vigilant, for if ever one of these succubi try to use her dark power to exert temporal influence over this land of the Lord, and we are not able to react, we could be condemned to hell in Earth even without of knowledge. In fact, this could be happening now, or have been already consummated, and we could die in our beds not knowing an ounce of the evil that might have unraveled.

Sincerely yours,

Henricus Krammer.

1 Fepruary, 1487

 

Also a piee of news for those interested: Conclave is going to mess big time with education events. This make my original plan of focusing first on the early life of the succubus quite unfeasible until I assess the changes in 2.5. Therefore, I will be focusing first on the seduction/feeding mechanic. I hope to have a first pre-alpha build ready for testing within these two weeks, containing only my version of these mechanics for the player.

 

Reads fine to me. Good find. And yea, Conclave is releasing February 2nd, meaning it's releasing before your pre-alpha, so you might want to wait anyways until you see what you like and don't like.

 

[Abraxis00]

I quite like the lore -- in-universe documentation is something I've always loved.  And it sounds like a solid premise for the succubus's powers.  I especially like the reference to the four humours theory of biology rather than inexplicable magic or anachronistic modern science.  Looking forward to this!

[GSBmodders]

the ideas here sound interesting, one suggestion I hope you consider in compatibility for the game of thrones mod. 

[ngppgn]

the ideas here sound interesting, one suggestion I hope you consider in compatibility for the game of thrones mod.

Since I myself I'm an eager player of A Game Of Thrones (and a buch of its submods) I'll definitely keep one version tailored toeards compatibility with AGOT.

[GSBmodders]

 

the ideas here sound interesting, one suggestion I hope you consider in compatibility for the game of thrones mod.

Since I myself I'm an eager player of A Game Of Thrones (and a buch of its submods) I'll definitely keep one version tailored toeards compatibility with AGOT.

 

beautiful, ty

[ngppgn]

Ugh, I'm dragged by the fact that in 2.5 I get a CTD each time I try to open the minor titles tab on vanilla (not to mention the reduced performance in my old pc...). Hopefully I can solve it soon...

[Kyraga]

Honestly I wouldn't play a non-explicit mod if I have an explicit one like Dark World.

[Quillon]

Well, to be honest. Mostly if you want to play succubus, there is Dark world.

I mostly use this one... And other features can be roleplayed.

 

One thing. If you want to have a cult, slow your progress a little. Wait for Monks DLC.

They have a nice cult feature and possibly magic system?

[Abraxis00]

This thread was made and last updated nearly a year ago, long before Monks & Mystics was announced.  Odds are good the original author has scrapped the idea by this point, or at least hasn't found time in the last year to get around to it.

[Quillon]

This thread was made and last updated nearly a year ago, long before Monks & Mystics was announced. Odds are good the original author has scrapped the idea by this point, or at least hasn't found time in the last year to get around to it.

...

I should really pay way more attention to dates o.o

[ngppgn]

So.... though I've come to terms with me being pretty unreliable in my comittment to modding projects, I've been thinking more or less seriously of retaking this project.

 

I'll try to start giving weekly updates in my progress to keep myself motivated, and hopefully, in a couple of months a pre-alpha first version might be available (no promises though).

 

Also, as my interests are shifting, the currently idea is still to have an adult, dark-themed mod around the idea of playing as a woman who finds herself having the powers of a succubus, and dealing with it, both in the sexual and the emotional dimensions of it. I'll be dumping the "non-explicit" part of the sex encounters, but I'll try to keep them in synch with the narrative tone of the overarching story.

 

These days I've been mostly collecting images and doing interface work. Here are some screenies of my advances so far.

 

Main menu:

 

 

A random event picture (the original art is not mine).