Corrupted Saves

*Monoman1* · March 22, 2016

I understand what you're saying. I never said it was perfect (far from it) but right now it's the only solution we know of. Mod authors should not have to worry about this crap it should be handled by the papyrus compiler.

The more people that are aware of this issue, particularly mod authors, the better. Thanks for the input.

Interesting point regarding the string table. I was going to create another save breaking mod this time with just script names to see if they are actually script names but can scripts be properties? Isn't it usually quests used? I don't see a listing of type "script" in the properties menu.

*FoxFingers* · March 22, 2016

I understand what you're saying. I never said it was perfect (far from it) but right now it's the only solution we know of. Mod authors should not have to worry about this crap it should be handled by the papyrus compiler.

The more people that are aware of this issue, particularly mod authors, the better. Thanks for the input.

Interesting point regarding the string table. I was going to create another save breaking mod this time with just script names to see if they are actually script names but can scripts be properties? Isn't it usually quests used? I don't see a listing of type "script" in the properties menu.

Sure, a script can be a property.

Example property declaration on a dialogue script:

AmorousAdvCarlottaQstUtil Property aalUtil Auto

and then, it gets used in the Papyrus Fragment on the dialogue:

aalUtil.AnimateCarlottaLover(akSpeaker)

Where "AnimateCarlottaLover" is a Function on the script.

Hope that helps.

*Monoman1* · March 22, 2016

Cool. That goes a way to explaining why only some script/fragment names are there.

*Monoman1* · March 23, 2016

Some more questions to pick peoples brains.

Why do games go bad over time? Why does it take 40-50 hours of play before saves start to become corrupt. We seem to have established that the strCount table consists mainly of mostly properties and some variables. Only one of those never changes - properties. I did a quick test this morning and changed the quest of the properties version of the strCount save breaker to be disabled on start up.

Loaded the game, Save 1.

started the quest, save 2.

stopped the quest, save 3.

All three saves were corrupt. So it looks like properties are always included in the strcount table whether or not the quest is active. Therefore, they appear to never change in a save as long as you're not messing with the load order.

This leaves variables. From what I've seen, once a function has completed, local variables are removed from the strcount tables. If I didn't include a wait loop in the function of the variables version of the strcount save breaker the saves were not corrupt because the function finished up quickly and then discarded the variables. Why then does strCount grow?

From experience looking at saves in the save game script cleaner I know that the number of 'Active scripts' doesn't change much in a save. They come, they are processed and they're gone. Why then is strCount growing? There are other fields in the scripts cleaner like "WaitOffsets" and "UpdateOffset1" and "UpdateOffset2". Not entirely sure what they are but they look empty compared to active scripts even though there are many more of them...

Something must be holding the variables in the strCount table. I think we're still missing something here.

Edit: Someone suggested a while back that certain SKSE functions don't release strings. Must look back and read the post again. I didn't understand it the first time around.

*markdf* · March 23, 2016

Some more questions to pick peoples brains.

Why do games go bad over time? Why does it take 40-50 hours of play before saves start to become corrupt. We seem to have established that the strCount table consists mainly of mostly properties and some variables. Only one of those never changes - properties. I did a quick test this morning and changed the quest of the properties version of the strCount save breaker to be disabled on start up.

...

Edit: Someone suggested a while back that certain SKSE functions don't release strings. Must look back and read the post again. I didn't understand it the first time around.

SKSE strings don't go in the string table, so that's not an issue.

Saves seem to "go bad" for two main reasons that I know of.

You get a lot of running scripts that are blocked and can't finish, and Skyrim tends to crash if there is too much to load at once. The datasync mode in Boris's latest ENBoost seems to help a LOT with that.
The string table issue.

The reason the string table keeps growing is that, in addition to storing the names of properties, it stores the contents of those properties -- if they are string properties. The table grows as those properties are initialized. This doesn't apply to JContainers though.

*markdf* · March 23, 2016

Animation Slots Patch

Before activating sexlab              : 29792
After activating sexlab               : 30102 (+310)
After enabling creature animations    : 30346 (+244)
After registering 278 SLAL animations : 30855 (+509, 1.8/anim)

If anyone wants to test out my patch for sexlab, here it is. It should bring the string usage way, way down.

Do NOT use this with any savegame that you care about! If you want to try it in an existing save, you should completely uninstall Sexlab, clean your save, and then reinstall with the patch.

27X · March 23, 2016

Hmm. I've stumbled on to something interesting.

In an effort to provide the doubters with easily reproducible proof of this issue I've created a small mod to break your saves, yay!

The mod simply declares 60,000 integers and holds the function in a loop for 30,000 seconds so the variables are persistent and not just discarded once the function completes. I was unable to declare the full 60,000 variables in a single script. The script either ended up on the suspended stack or did not seem to run at all with all the variables in one script. So I created 3 scripts with 20,000 declarations each.

Now the interesting part.

Initially I had the script variables named the same across all 3 scripts.

Eg:

Script 1 had a variable named strCountTestVariable0

Script 2 had a variable named strCountTestVariable0

Script 3 had a variable named strCountTestVariable0

etc

Number of total strings created by the mod = 20,000 => Save NOT corrupt.

I changed each script to use unique variable names.

Eg:

Script 1 had a variable named strCountTest1Variable0

Script 2 had a variable named strCountTest2Variable0

Script 3 had a variable named strCountTest3Variable0

etc

This time it looks like I got the desired result. Save becomes corrupt and we can presume 60,000 strings were created.

How this is interesting:

If mod authors were to use a common set of variable names it seems strCount would be reduced accordingly. It would be very far from ideal for mod authors though.

StrCount Save Breaker.7z

To break your saves:

1. Install mod on vanilla or any load order. 60,000 string definitions should break any load order.

2. Coc qasmoke in the console at the main menu. Or load your favorite save. Should break anything assuming the scripts actually run.

3. Save your game and join the broken save club, :*(

yeah I can just wait for Elianora to declare herself the LITERAL Queen of All Modding and screech incessantly about anyone not using her approved var sets for modding. This isn't going to be a thing, and frankly with the Nexus/Workshop attitude towards modding in general and sharing content, it shouldn't be a thing either. You're just going to have to be picky and careful about what you install and why, and that's not necessarily a negative in any respect.

*Monoman1* · March 23, 2016

There's that side to it of course.

You can test my load order for a 100 hours to make sure there's no corruption

Don't think anyone is suggesting mod authors rewrite their mods from scratch. That would be nuts.

But with that kind of attitude the merge plugin script would never have been created. Sure why would you need more than 255 mods? Or more than 3.2Gb of memory. Remember that?

Obviously everything has a limit at some point. But if I can break your save with a 200KB mod and no running scripts something is wrong.

@Mark

Cheers, I will check it out as soon as I'm finished sorting my game.

27X · March 23, 2016

I could see sexlab and aligned modders creating a "common asset framework" type practice for sure, I mean BS and RM have pretty much already started on that road, but you'd still need to be pretty vigilant and fair to avoid cliqueish bullshit.

*Monoman1* · March 23, 2016

Animation Slots Patch
Before activating sexlab              : 29792
After activating sexlab               : 30102 (+310)
After enabling creature animations    : 30346 (+244)
After registering 278 SLAL animations : 30855 (+509, 1.8/anim)
If anyone wants to test out my patch for sexlab, here it is. It should bring the string usage way, way down.

Do NOT use this with any savegame that you care about! If you want to try it in an existing save, you should completely uninstall Sexlab, clean your save, and then reinstall with the patch.

This is likely something to do with my profile as it's all over the place the moment but the script sslanimationdefaults seems to be hanging on me. There are 125 active scripts in a save i made after enabling sexlab, most of which are sslanimationdefaults.

Also don't see the list of animations outputted to the console like normal.

Error: Static function eraseRange not found on object JArray

Pap log from installing sexlab and on:

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:31PM] SexLab - SexLab v1.61b - Installing...

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:31PM] SEXLAB - NOTICE: SexLabFramework - Disabled

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:31PM] SEXLAB - NOTICE: [sexlabframework <SexLabQuestFramework (0B000D62)>] - Loaded SexLabFramework

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:31PM] SEXLAB - Voices[0] FemaleClassic - Classic (Female)

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:31PM] SEXLAB - Voices[1] FemaleBreathy - Breathy (Female)

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:32PM] SEXLAB - Voices[2] FemaleYoung - Young (Female)

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:32PM] SEXLAB - Voices[3] FemaleStimulated - Stimulated (Female)

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:32PM] SEXLAB - Voices[4] FemaleQuiet - Quiet (Female)

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:32PM] SEXLAB - Voices[5] FemaleExcitable - Excitable (Female)

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:32PM] SEXLAB - Voices[6] FemaleAverage - Average (Female)

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:32PM] SEXLAB - Voices[7] FemaleMature - Mature (Female)

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:32PM] SEXLAB - Voices[8] MaleNeutral - Neutral (Male)

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:32PM] SEXLAB - Voices[9] MaleCalm - Calm (Male)

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:33PM] SEXLAB - Voices[10] MaleRough - Rough (Male)

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:33PM] SEXLAB - Voices[11] MaleAverage - Average (Male)

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:33PM] SEXLAB - Expressions[0] Pleasure - Pleasure

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:33PM] SEXLAB - Expressions[1] Happy - Happy

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:33PM] SEXLAB - Expressions[2] Joy - Joy

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:33PM] SEXLAB - Expressions[3] Shy - Shy

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:33PM] SEXLAB - Expressions[4] Sad - Sad

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:34PM] SEXLAB - Expressions[5] Afraid - Afraid

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:34PM] SEXLAB - Expressions[6] Pained - Pained

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:34PM] SEXLAB - Expressions[7] Angry - Angry

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:34PM] SEXLAB - Expressions[8] Custom1 - Custom 1

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:34PM] SEXLAB - Expressions[9] Custom2 - Custom 2

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:34PM] SEXLAB - Expressions[10] Custom3 - Custom 3

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:34PM] SEXLAB - Expressions[11] Custom4 - Custom 4

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:35PM] SEXLAB - Expressions[12] Custom5 - Custom 5

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:35PM] Error: Static function eraseRange not found on object JArray. Aborting call and returning None

stack:

[alias BaseAnimation374 on quest SexLabQuestAnimations (0B0639DF)].sslBaseAnimation.Save() - "sslBaseAnimation.psc" Line 751

[sexLabQuestAnimations (0B0639DF)].sslanimationdefaults.SexLabMissionary() - "sslAnimationDefaults.psc" Line 875

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:35PM] Error: Static function eraseRange not found on object JArray. Aborting call and returning None

stack:

[alias BaseAnimation373 on quest SexLabQuestAnimations (0B0639DF)].sslBaseAnimation.Save() - "sslBaseAnimation.psc" Line 751

[sexLabQuestAnimations (0B0639DF)].sslanimationdefaults.SexLabAggrMissionary() - "sslAnimationDefaults.psc" Line 783

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:35PM] Error: Static function eraseRange not found on object JArray. Aborting call and returning None

stack:

[alias BaseAnimation370 on quest SexLabQuestAnimations (0B0639DF)].sslBaseAnimation.Save() - "sslBaseAnimation.psc" Line 751

[sexLabQuestAnimations (0B0639DF)].sslanimationdefaults.ZynMissionary() - "sslAnimationDefaults.psc" Line 1601

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:35PM] Error: Static function eraseRange not found on object JArray. Aborting call and returning None

stack:

[alias BaseAnimation372 on quest SexLabQuestAnimations (0B0639DF)].sslBaseAnimation.Save() - "sslBaseAnimation.psc" Line 751

[sexLabQuestAnimations (0B0639DF)].sslanimationdefaults.ArrokMissionary() - "sslAnimationDefaults.psc" Line 417

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:35PM] Error: Static function eraseRange not found on object JArray. Aborting call and returning None

stack:

[alias BaseAnimation371 on quest SexLabQuestAnimations (0B0639DF)].sslBaseAnimation.Save() - "sslBaseAnimation.psc" Line 751

[sexLabQuestAnimations (0B0639DF)].sslanimationdefaults.ArrokLegUp() - "sslAnimationDefaults.psc" Line 378

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:35PM] Error: Static function eraseRange not found on object JArray. Aborting call and returning None

stack:

[alias BaseAnimation362 on quest SexLabQuestAnimations (0B0639DF)].sslBaseAnimation.Save() - "sslBaseAnimation.psc" Line 751

[sexLabQuestAnimations (0B0639DF)].sslanimationdefaults.APBedMissionary() - "sslAnimationDefaults.psc" Line 1061

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:35PM] Error: Static function eraseRange not found on object JArray. Aborting call and returning None

stack:

[alias BaseAnimation369 on quest SexLabQuestAnimations (0B0639DF)].sslBaseAnimation.Save() - "sslBaseAnimation.psc" Line 751

[sexLabQuestAnimations (0B0639DF)].sslanimationdefaults.zjMissionary() - "sslAnimationDefaults.psc" Line 2007

[03/23/2016 - 10:28:35PM] Error: Static function eraseRange not found on object JArray. Aborting call and returning None

stack:

[alias BaseAnimation368 on quest SexLabQuestAnimations (0B0639DF)].sslBaseAnimation.Save() - "sslBaseAnimation.psc" Line 751

[sexLabQuestAnimations (0B0639DF)].sslanimationdefaults.zjLaying() - "sslAnimationDefaults.psc" Line 1956