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XunAmarox

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Hello all,
To answer all the questions about Fallout 4: we're nearly there! I've been hard at work deciphering the mesh format, along with Ousnius and the good people from the NifTools team, and things are finally to the point where all the big mysteries are figured out! Coming soon (hopefully a few days, and on Fallout Nexus), will be a Fallout 4 edition of CBBE, and shortly to follow a version of Bodyslide and Outfit studio.
The first releases will likely be in a "beta" state as we work furiously to improve quality and fix bugs that have arisen from the new formats and rendering engine. Hope everyone will be understanding of any issues that arise, and bear with us as we work through them.
There is still a short road left before I can release anything (have to get feet added to the mesh, for instance...) so it's not ready quite yet, but for those who are very anxious, here's a small imgur gallery teaser: Gallery!
Thank you all very much for your support, I hope you will enjoy our work in the Fallout universe!

(Sorry for stealing your topic tonicmole but with the forum move there's some important posts I think need to be saved)
 
Update Dec 23 2015: CBBE has been uploaded to Nexus: Here
BodySlide & Outfit Studio is on its own page on Nexus as well: Here

Oh and uh... a little shameless self promotion, my texture CBBE Innies - Fallout 4 Edition is on Nexus as well.
 
Here are two of the larger posts Caliente made in the previous iteration of this thread:
 

 

On 12/1/2015, 6:05:31, Caliente said
Hi everyone default_smile.png
 
Sorry I haven't been here for a long time ... site is blocked at work which is where I get most of my forum time default_smile.png
 
For those who  are excited about my fallout4 work, thank you so much for the kind words, I hope what I release will be to your liking!
For those who are not, that's great too, thanks for any feedback!  I hope this time around what I make will be more to your liking, and if not, hopefully you won't have to wait too long for something that is!
 
To comment on a couple things in this thread....

  • The body shape that was pictured in the preview images was basically the skyrim CBBE body mesh, adjusted to fit the fallout 4 body pose.  That means it was using the default (fairly unrealistic) proportions, didn't include feet yet, and was fairly low-poly.   
  • I'm experimenting with a much higher poly version of the mesh now, which includes detailed feet, and clocks in at around 21k vertices.  That may turn out to be to heavy of a mesh to be viable, but I'm going to experiment and see how it runs.  
  • The shape of the body will very much be yours to control.  I've got about 70 sliders that allow you to adjust a great many aspects of the shape to your liking, and which by themselves allow you to approximate the shape of any body.  
  • By default the plan is to have 3 "install and go" body shapes.  All three will likely be more conservative in the chest than the skyrim CBBE "curvy" shape, and should include a small-chested variety, a more voluptuous one, and the vanilla shape.  Other shapes will be easily attainable through the use of Bodyslide. 
  • One of the initial sliders is a version sized to fit the Fallout 4 vanilla body, for those who like the default body, but wish it had more polygons or a nude skin.  I've taken a quick screenshot of it in Outfit Studio... which also shows the feet.   http://imgur.com/mcEjVf1  I'm wrestling with an export bug at them moment, so apologies it's not an in game screenshot. 
  • I will endeavor to convert armors to the body and sliders soon after release.  (maybe an outfit or two will be available right away).   Technically, all the outfits in the game can be converted within a few minutes... but they are all very low poly and don't conform well to curvy bodies default_smile.png  So, like Skyrim, I'll have to manually retopologize all of them so they are good enough to support the body shapes.
  • The default shape of the body mesh is still CBBE.  This is because there are lots of sliders available that convert skyrim armors between bodies  ( 7base to UNP for example), and CBBE is a convenient stop over for the tools.  For fallout, conversions aren't necessary yet (unless you want to port skyrim outfits over), but similar sliders exist to make the CBBE shape fit the body style of your preference.   Also, unless you want the shape, you won't ever have to see the base shape in the game default_smile.png
  • The current UV set used by the mesh is the same as the CBBE set from Skyrim.  That is, very simliar to the Skryim vanilla set.  I'm currently on the fence as to whether I"m going to keep it this way or not.  The fallout vanilla uvs are extremely wasteful of texture space (As shown in the picture above by Grine -- the top image is the skyrim default set, and the bottom is the fallout one).  Not changing it, however, has the disadvantage of causing all non-cbbe outfits that show skin to have a broken skin texture,  since it's a texture replacement. As a third option, I may try to release a custom material for the body instead of simply replacing the textures, but I'm not yet sure if that's possible without a creation kit.
  • The in-game body customization triangle works just fine with the customized body mesh.  It uses bone scaling to achieve the shape changes, so the same sorts of body randomness you see in game now will continue to occur with cbbe in place.  Right now, I don't know how to modify or control the scaling values used by that triangle, but I suspect it's not a difficult task default_smile.png  
  • Finally, The first release will definitely be a work in progress sort of release. There will be bugs and things to polish.  But, I want to get something out so people can start playing with it, and I can get the important feedback for improvement.  
Anyway, thanks!  Hope to have a release out for you all soon default_smile.png

 

 
 

@Leito86 Yep -- using my as-of-yet-unreleased version of Bodyslide and Outfit Studio.  Me, cell, and some other folks from the Niftools team (figment, Jonwd7 especially) spent a good amount of time puzzling out and reverse-engineering the fallout 4 nif file format.  There were a lot of changes to the format, some easy to spot, some tricky to understand, and we're still working on understanding some of the corner cases.    Beyond that there's not much different from how skyrim worked, so dropping a nif file onto the filesystem with the same name replaces the files.
Unfortunately, the typical toolchains using things like maya, max, and blender aren't ready yet -- the niftools folks are still working on updating those plugins.  If you're interested in the specifics of the format, I can try to answer questions.  Better yet, the bodyslide code is open source when I update it and you can see all the details in the bowels of it's messy code default_smile.png
 
A couple basics for skinned meshes off the top of my head since I feel bad for being mysterious:

  •  (almost) All data is stored within the BSSubIndexTriShape block.
  •  the BSSkin::Instance block stores a list of bones and a link to a BSSkin::BoneData block.
  •  the BSSkin::BoneData block contains an array of bone descriptors that include bone transform data (translation, scale, rotation, bounding sphere center and boundign sphere raidus)
  •  In the BSSubIndexTriShape
    • A subclass of the also-new BSTriShape Block. Most of the below holds for both, except for the subindex data.
    • important data before the vertex list include  vertex count, triangle count, the size of blob of data comprising the vertex and triangle count.  Also important is a reference to the BSSkin::instance block, and a BSLightingShaderProperty block. 
    • Vertices are stored in a variable length record based on some flags.  There's some uncertainty as to which flag means what, but my assumption as to the flag byte holds true for the meshes I've worked with.
      • The flags specify whether or not the vertex includes normal data, color data, and/or skinning data
      • Vertex position vectors are stored as half(16 bit) float triplets.  Similarly, UV coordinates are stored as two 16 bit floats.
      • Normal vectors are stored as 8 bit triplets (one byte per axis), immediately following the uv coordinates.
      • Tangent vectors are stored as 8 bit triplets (one byte per axis) after the normals, with one byte between. 
      • Bitangent vectors are stored as one half-float value for the X axis, and two 8 bit floats for the y and z components.  This value is scattered among the other data in the vertex record.  
      • the vertex record is:    [ vert x, y, z : 6 bytes][bitangent X : 2 bytes][uV u, v: 4 bytes][Normal x, y, z 3 bytes][bitangent Y: 1 byte][Tangent x, y, z 3 bytes][bitangent z: 1 byte][skinning bone index short int A B C D 8 bytes][skinning weights float A B C D 16 bytes]
    • Triangles are stored logically after the vertex list in a series of short integer triplets.  
    • The SubIndex Section is next, and is somewhat mysterious.  there are two regions within it, and appears to be a segmented list of triangle counts, with triangles being dumped into buckets according to their index in the triangle list.  (IE, triangles in vanilla meshes are stored in a specific order to make this work.).  This section appears to be used for dismemberment (only dismemberment as far as I can tell) .  if you put the total number of triangles into bucket four, it assigns them to "Torso".  Everthing works in the game except dismemberment.  Basically, after triangle list, if you:
      • output the triangle count again,
      • outut unsigned int 4  (for the outer bucket size)  
      • output unsigned int 4 again (for the inner bucket size)
      • output three records of four unsigned ints in the pattern 0, 0, -1, 0
      • output one more record of four unsigned ints with the pattern 0, <triangle count>, -1, 0 
      • it will work fine.
    • Last but not least is a two byte string length indicator followed by a string referencing an .ssf file pertinent to the nif.  Not sure what the .ssf files do default_smile.png
  • The BSLightingShaderProperty is expanded a bit but I don't remember exactly how -- just some more values, including string references to the main body shader material file as well as a "wet" shader file.  It also includes a reference to the BSTextureSet block.
  • The BSTextureSet block is mostly unchanged, except it has space for 10 strings and not 1.
And that's it. default_smile.png

 

There were a lot of other posts in the original thread but I wanted to make sure at least this much wasn't lost. We can continue talking about it here. :)



There was a post on page 7 by Caliente with the following:
 

 

Hello all!

At last, Here we are. An alpha version of both bodyslide and CBBE! There have been a lot of changes under the hood for both, and there will be many changes to come, but we wanted to get you all an early version to take a look at and test a bit before we do a full release elsewhere. Since this is a test release, we'd like to ask that you do not redistribute these files... it's not polished enough for the full public :)

Included:

  • CBBE Body for Fallout 4. "HD" with 21000 quads, high resolution textures that fit the same UV map CBBE used for Skyrim. Includes detailed feet and hands.
  • Bodyslide for Fallout 4, which will create a custom shaped body based on nearly 70 sliders, including a vanilla shape slider that gives you the CBBE textures and resolution on a body shaped like the vanilla fo4 one.
  • Two shape presets -- a prototype curvy and slim that represent a more natural figure than the default CBBE for skyrim.
  • The ability to create your own shape presets for as natural or extreme shape you wish!
  • CBBE_HD_WIP.fbx -- an fbx file containing the base body mesh, skinned to the fallout 4 skeleton. NOTE: the skinning weights are an early WIP, so adapting these weights for outfits may require a re-work of the weighting in the future
  • CBBE_HD_WIP.obj -- an obj file containing the base body mesh.
Not included:
  • Outfit Studio has been disabled, not ready for public use yet (Crashy, buggy, undocumented!).. but will be available soon, and will allow you to easily and quickly adapt game outfits or custom outfits to the body
  • Outfits that fit the body... coming soon!
  • Textures for females that aren't the basehumanfemale -- raider females will have broken body textures.
  • first person meshes
  • Blending solution for neck seam
Known Issues:
These are the known problems that you might encounter while using this version. Since it's a test release, you will likely not enjoy playing fallout with it until some of these are resolved! We are working to get these taken care of as soon as possible, and will expand this list as more problems are discovered!
  • Wrist seam -- there's a small disconnect between the wrist and the arm, causing both a slight gap and a texture discontinuity. believed to be weight paint related.
  • Neck seam -- the mesh matches position, but the texture seam is very noticeable. Additionally the weight painting isn't perfect causing some gaps to appear.
  • First person textures incorrect -- first person meshes haven't been replaced for arms and hands so the textures don't match.
  • Outfits that replace the body will have ugly textures anywhere skin is showing (and the body will be the vanilla shape of course)
  • Outfits that don't replace the body (armor pieces) may have clipping and obvious sizing issues
  • Dismemberment does not work for replaced bodies currently
  • Building bodies with Bodyslide may fail if you do not have permission to write to the fallout data folder (if it's installed in program files for instance), so you may need to run the program as admin
Some pics:


KJq2gXD.jpg

lIT84rD.jpg

dAaYxsE.jpg

Yn0x8qd.jpg

CGJ0meR.jpg



ALPHA COMPLETE !! Thanks to everyone for the great help trying things out and giving feedback! Links to release files below on the fallout 4 nexus. (Will upload mirror release on LL later tonight

Body files: REQUIRED: drop contents in Fallout 4/data folder

Release files on fallout 4 nexus:
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/15/?

changes release v1.0
Neck seam and wrist seams greatly improved.
New sliders: forearm size and armpit height.
A large selection of vanilla armors converted to fit CBBE... Bodyslide slidersets available for customization.
First person arms mesh included

Changes 2a:
Added first person hand mesh
Added Dirty body textures, courtesy of SunshaftV . Thank you!
Added CBBE.ESP plugin, a material override, texture file, and replacement mesh for the back of the female head to correct the strange decision to put the rear scalp texture in the body texture. NOTE-- plugin.ini edit required for this to work, and also note that fallout clears this out each execution. Check readme in archive.
Corrected mesh gap at wrists due to calculation precision errors in bodyslide. NOTE-- there's still a slight visible seam due to textures not quite matching.
Removed baked shadowing beneath breasts in diffuse texture. Along with fixed mesh normal generation, completely flat-chested bodies are possible without strange shadowing
Removed golden glitter on right nipple in diffuse texture.
Flipped normal map green channel as per DirectX normal map format

Bodyslide:

Release on fallout 4 nexus (managed by ousnius/cell)
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/25/?

Changes release v1.0
Numerous bugs squashed.
Outfit studio available for use! Capable of conforming vanilla outfits, creating custom sliders, and creating nif files from custom meshes (some caution warranted: user unfriendliness and bugs lay in wait still )
Full slidersets created for numerous vanilla outfits. Mostly this includes any outfit that shows any skin ( even if just a forearm.) note, due to the dreadfully low resolution and poor topology of the vanilla meshes, many larger/extreme body shapes will look terrible. This requires reworking the topology to boost polygon count ... Let me know if you'd like to help with this arduous task!
Slider groups and presets finalized

Changes 3a:
Added sliders: ButtNew, SternumHeight, ChestDepth, ChestWidth, WaistHeight, BreastCenter, BreastCenterBig
Updated sliders: Apple Cheeks, BreastPerkiness
Added Outfit: Raider04 (raider harness) -- full slider support minimal clipping.
Added Outfit: NeverNude (underwear) -- a fixed version of the vanilla underwear mesh (not used in the game) with full slider support. When built, replaces the nude female body like a 'nevernude' option.
Updated default CBBE Curvy and Slim presets based on settings by Jeir, and using some of the new sliders
Added new sliders to appropriate categories
Fixed Zap Slider operation
Fixed mesh normal generation during export

Changes 2a:
Ankle Slider added
BigButt Slider fixed
x64 version included

Thanks all hope you enjoy! and don't hesitate to send us your comments and issues!

Note, remember to add the line
bInvalidateOlderFiles=1
to your Fallout4Custom.ini !

 

And an update:

Okay, I've just updated the original post with alpha 2a for the body and alpha 3a for Bodyslide! Note, Outfit studio remains disabled outside a limited testing group, and please do not redistribute any files! Also, it is fine to provide modified/addon files within this thread, but I'd still like to ask that you please don't post them elsewhere till release :)

Lots of changes in this release to both archives. Some very subtle and some not so subtle. Some highlights:

  • Added a fully slider-compatible version of the Raider04 outfit (Harness). This is not to diminish the work being done by others on the same outfit, it just turned out that I chose the same file as a testbed for conversions. :)
  • Added a fully slider-compatible underwear outfit. The underwear mesh in the game files is broken and unused -- this fixes the mesh and creates a body replacer out of it (like the cbbe skyrim "nevernude" option). Note that upon release, a less conservative set of underthings will likely be used as the nevernude option :) There's a slight bit of clipping on the hem of the thighs...
  • Cleaned up the breast shadowing on the diffuse texture, and fixed mesh normal generation during body build. This will provide much more accurate shadowing no matter what shape your body takes on, including allowing the body to be completely flat-chested without strange shadows.
  • Added the first person hand mesh.
  • Thanks to the generous offer of SunshaftV, there are high quality dirty body textures used by raiders. Note, I did not include the Player dirty body plugin by him, Sunshaft is welcome to provide that for any who wish it.
  • Fixed the discoloration on the back of the neck for females wearing short hairstyles. This is done using a plugin included with the body archive (CBBE.esp), and installation instructions are in a readme that's also included. Remember the current fallout bug that clears out plugin.ini settings each time the launcher is run! While this corrects the issue for the player, many NPCs are using pre-baked nif files that need to be individually updated to allow them to point to a texture file that isn't the body texture.
  • Added a bunch of new sliders, including waist height, chest size, a re-sculpted butt, and a new pair of breast sliders that attempt to make the bust appear to hang more naturally.
    The butt slider changes the shape of the butt without affecting the size or profile too much, but gives it a more natural pleasing shape... especially for smaller sizes, and combines well with other sliders. Here's a comparison of the base shape and the new shape : old on left, new on right . of course the new shape is optional, though it's included in the base presets.
    The pair of breast sliders primarily focus on the center area of the chest (They're called breastcenter and breastcenterbig), and create the shape of them originating more naturally from the middle of the chest. The one ending in 'big' is intended to provide the same effect for larger breast shapes than the default size. A comparison of the old shape and new shape is available here: Old on right, new on left . Note these sliders do not much increase the size of the breasts, but rather change the inner curvature of them. The effect is fairly subtle.
    The other sliders concentrate on providing additional customization to the overall torso -- rib cage size, waist height, and sternum position.
Work continues on the mod:) A large amount of armor and outfit conversions are in the works for a release soon, as well as additional fixes (neck seam, wrist seam). If there are outfits that show a lot of skin or clip significantly with the body, please let me know so I can prioritize converting those outfits! I'm also attempting to hunt down bugs with bodyslide and outfit studio, hoping to be able to have that in a pleasant functioning state as soon as possible !

Thank you all for your attention, suggestions, and feedback, I hope you're continuing to enjoy the mod!

 

 
edit: Oh and the alpha for my CBBE Innies for Fallout 4 is here. It has innie pussies and a few shaving styles. Probably best to mention it here or it'll be lost at the rate this thread's getting replies.

 

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HDT is based on a custom made skeleton for Skyrim.  I already asked Caliente before if her CBBE port was based on a custom skeleton.  She said it was based on the vanilla FO4 skeleton.

 

This means they will have to make new animations in order to take advantage of the FO4 skeleton.  But, from the looks of the skeleton there isn't alot of nodes for movement.  Meaning, unless a new custom skeleton comes out there wont' be much in the way of bouncing.

 

Until there's a plugin for 3ds max/blender to play around with skeletons, it'll be difficult to accomplish this.  Not to mention nifskope is still a WIP.

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Bad news guys. Even if we get the CBBE we may not be able to use it since new FO4 patch breaks mods

 

Thats not likely, as the patches generally only break esp based mods due to the nature of record and formid, location,s namin,g notations as well as catagorizing. SInce CBBE is a mesh and texture replacer it should work just fine, unless the entire mesh system was reworked for the game.

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Bad news guys. Even if we get the CBBE we may not be able to use it since new FO4 patch breaks mods

 

Actually it just auto-deletes esp entries from your plugins.txt file. This can be solved by setting the file to read-only.

 

Also, CBBE will almost definitelly not need an ESP file so it should still work.

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It's my understanding that the vanilla skeleton has breast bones already (which is definitely the case as you can tell from the Team Busty thread), so all it would really require is a bit of weighting to them I'd imagine...

 

Bad news guys. Even if we get the CBBE we may not be able to use it since new FO4 patch breaks mods

 

Don't use it. It's a Beta patch. Their beta patches disable mods. You're basically risking destroying your saves to help them test experimental patches. Just wait to install the real patches, not betas.

 

The only reason I'd use a beta patch is if it fixes some game breaking bug you're experiencing, otherwise I'd just play it safe and wait.

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It's my understanding that the vanilla skeleton has breast bones already (which is definitely the case as you can tell from the Team Busty thread), so all it would really require is a bit of weighting to them I'd imagine...

 

Bad news guys. Even if we get the CBBE we may not be able to use it since new FO4 patch breaks mods

 

Don't use it. It's a Beta patch. Their beta patches disable mods. You're basically risking destroying your saves to help them test experimental patches. Just wait to install the real patches, not betas.

 

The only reason I'd use a beta patch is if it fixes some game breaking bug you're experiencing, otherwise I'd just play it safe and wait.

 

I think he was referring to the real patch that went out today?

 

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It's my understanding that the vanilla skeleton has breast bones already (which is definitely the case as you can tell from the Team Busty thread), so all it would really require is a bit of weighting to them I'd imagine...

 

Bad news guys. Even if we get the CBBE we may not be able to use it since new FO4 patch breaks mods

 

Don't use it. It's a Beta patch. Their beta patches disable mods. You're basically risking destroying your saves to help them test experimental patches. Just wait to install the real patches, not betas.

 

The only reason I'd use a beta patch is if it fixes some game breaking bug you're experiencing, otherwise I'd just play it safe and wait.

 

I think he was referring to the real patch that went out today?

 

 

There is a workaround: http://www2.loverslab.com/topic/54646-patch-412-and-broken-mods/?do=findComment&comment=1373485

 

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@Xun - Yeah, but have you looked at the skeleton?  The rib bones are practically where the breasts should be, and the breast bones almost look like collar bones.  The reason for this is because the skeleton is "shared" between the sexes, most humanoid races, and children in the game.

 

I'm not saying its impossible to weight paint it properly, I'm just saying even with proper weight painting I don't think it'll look as good as HDT or BBP.  Just compare the skeletons, and you'll see what I mean.

 

Here's the two skeletons (click to enlarge):

 

 

The fallout 4 vanilla skeleton is on the left, the HDT is on the right.

 

 

post-4075-0-05721900-1449515525_thumb.png

 

 

 

Here's the Fallout 4 one zoomed into where the breast bone is...notice it position.  The node under it is the rib bone...

 

 

 

post-4075-0-19046800-1449515618_thumb.png

 

 

 

Now,  compare that to the HDT skeleton.  Notice the position especially relative to the shoulders/collar:

 

 

post-4075-0-38296000-1449515674_thumb.png

 

 

 

I'm not sure how much you've weight painted, but I know you're a decent modder.  Just a glance at this told me it wasn't going to be very good to work with as a base lol.

 

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@Xun - Yeah, but have you looked at the skeleton?  The rib bones are practically where the breasts should be, and the breast bones almost look like collar bones.  The reason for this is because the skeleton is "shared" between the sexes, most humanoid races, and children in the game.

 

I'm not saying its impossible to weight paint it properly, I'm just saying even with proper weight painting I don't think it'll look as good as HDT or BBP.  Just compare the skeletons, and you'll see what I mean.

 

Here's the two skeletons (click to enlarge):

 

 

The fallout 4 vanilla skeleton is on the left, the HDT is on the right.

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the Fallout 4 one zoomed into where the breast bone is...notice it position.  The node under it is the rib bone...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now,  compare that to the HDT skeleton.  Notice the position especially relative to the shoulders/collar:

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure how much you've weight painted, but I know you're a decent modder.  Just a glance at this told me it wasn't going to be very good to work with as a base lol.

 

We're going to have to use the skeleton as a base whether new skeletons are made from it or not since all the vanilla animations use it.

 

I don't think the position of the breast bones is actually all that important though. I don't know if you recall but one of the first versions of jiggly breasts (whatever they happened to be called) for Skyrim (or was it Oblivion? it all merges together...) used the feet bones, rather than breast bones. It wasn't even all that hard to do. I remember doing it myself, no special skeleton required. All you had to do was very faintly weight the breasts to the feet armatures and they'd jiggle whenever your feet moved. Of course, it wasn't nearly as good as the ones that came later but I thought it was alright.

 

I think the important thing is probably that they need to move. Feet move on their own as you do due to animations, and I presume the other skeletons had their breast movement because they were further away from the body and without that bone being animated it'd sort of stay stationary while the others moved which would create the jiggle... Well, I didn't mess with meshes much after FO3 when the import/export process got really messy for Skyrim so I'm probably several years out of the loop at this point.

 

The real question is probably what are weighted to those breast bones. If the skeleton is edited to move them out and produce breast jiggle then what else is going to be jiggling? Do the armor chest pieces and such use it?

 

What I think will probably end up happening is new jiggle bones being added for the breast & butt, separate from the existing breast bones. From what Caliente's posted though it sounds like we'll have the vanilla skeleton at first no matter what since they're having trouble editing it or some such. I mean, it's probably possible that the existing ones could be used if they were moved (maybe possible in Nifskope?), but that might mean all the vanilla armors would need to be edited to not do crazy things so it'd probably be safer to have new jiggle bones added...

 

I dunno. Jiggling was never a big deal for me. It's a nice bonus but I'm not going to mind doing without jiggling for awhile.

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@Xun - Hmm, that's very interesting!  The first jiggle I can think of in Skyrim was BBP, the first jiggle I can think of for Oblivion was BBB (think it ment big bouncing breasts or something lol).  

 

But really though, feet bones, wow!  I would have never even realized it, until you pointed it out lol.  

 

My biggest concern isn't the body mesh itself, its more weighting clothes/armors to it.

 

I realize that its not like they had much of a choice in the matter.  I was just pointing it out, since other posters brought up HDT and animations.  

 

Unless the version of nifskope they are using is different, the current version won't even display the skeleton.  The skeleton I showed was exported from Noesis.

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@Xun - Yeah, but have you looked at the skeleton?  The rib bones are practically where the breasts should be, and the breast bones almost look like collar bones.  The reason for this is because the skeleton is "shared" between the sexes, most humanoid races, and children in the game.

 

I'm not saying its impossible to weight paint it properly, I'm just saying even with proper weight painting I don't think it'll look as good as HDT or BBP.  Just compare the skeletons, and you'll see what I mean.

 

Here's the two skeletons (click to enlarge):

 

 

The fallout 4 vanilla skeleton is on the left, the HDT is on the right.

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the Fallout 4 one zoomed into where the breast bone is...notice it position.  The node under it is the rib bone...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now,  compare that to the HDT skeleton.  Notice the position especially relative to the shoulders/collar:

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure how much you've weight painted, but I know you're a decent modder.  Just a glance at this told me it wasn't going to be very good to work with as a base lol.

 

We're going to have to use the skeleton as a base whether new skeletons are made from it or not since all the vanilla animations use it.

 

I don't think the position of the breast bones is actually all that important though. I don't know if you recall but one of the first versions of jiggly breasts (whatever they happened to be called) for Skyrim (or was it Oblivion? it all merges together...) used the feet bones, rather than breast bones. It wasn't even all that hard to do. I remember doing it myself, no special skeleton required. All you had to do was very faintly weight the breasts to the feet armatures and they'd jiggle whenever your feet moved. Of course, it wasn't nearly as good as the ones that came later but I thought it was alright.

 

I think the important thing is probably that they need to move. Feet move on their own as you do due to animations, and I presume the other skeletons had their breast movement because they were further away from the body and without that bone being animated it'd sort of stay stationary while the others moved which would create the jiggle... Well, I didn't mess with meshes much after FO3 when the import/export process got really messy for Skyrim so I'm probably several years out of the loop at this point.

 

The real question is probably what are weighted to those breast bones. If the skeleton is edited to move them out and produce breast jiggle then what else is going to be jiggling? Do the armor chest pieces and such use it?

 

What I think will probably end up happening is new jiggle bones being added for the breast & butt, separate from the existing breast bones. From what Caliente's posted though it sounds like we'll have the vanilla skeleton at first no matter what since they're having trouble editing it or some such. I mean, it's probably possible that the existing ones could be used if they were moved (maybe possible in Nifskope?), but that might mean all the vanilla armors would need to be edited to not do crazy things so it'd probably be safer to have new jiggle bones added...

 

I dunno. Jiggling was never a big deal for me. It's a nice bonus but I'm not going to mind doing without jiggling for awhile.

 

 

yeah the foot bone weighting was the first moving breast mod for oblivion, it predated the bbb mods by quite a bit, very very few mods actually went this route and i actually think it even predated hgec, and was only on exnems base mesh.

 

and here ya go http://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/17592/?

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The breast bones of the vanilla skeleton are not meant to be moved, but only to be scaled. They have 'skin' in their names, and as far as I know, all bones with skin in their names are part of the new body scaling system. I think that also explains their positions. And unfortunately the male body also uses the breast bones (maybe they wanted to appease to the man-boobs community).

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The only issue I noticed with the update was that it just disabled the esp files.  I looked into my data folder for FO4 and everything was there.  The big issue was they disabled the ability to activate your esp files through the Data Files hidden section in launcher.  I for some reason wasn't getting any work around to actually work.  The only thing that worked for me was using Nexus Mod Manager, which I didn't want to do.  Sure enough, after installing NMM, there they were, all my esp files just waiting to be activated again.

 

I know other methods work too, but this was by far the easiest for me.  I still don't understand why they don't have the data files section on the launcher menu as they always have before.  Especially since they support the modding community.  Maybe they just want to keep things interesting.

 

Looking forward to Caliente's release.  Should be fun.

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